Law regarding Car Clamping

Jumboman

Hello Everyone,

Not sure if this is the right forum to discuss car clamping but I have a few questions.


Do private compaines have an absolute right to clamp peoples cars or is that a grey area of the law ?

Is it a criminal or civil offence to remove a Dublin City Council clamp ?

If Dublin City Council clamp your car how long do you have to pay them before they can take your car away ?

AlmightyCushion

Moved from After Hours.

Jumboman

I note that the DSPS give very little or no legal infomation on their website about what they can and cant do, I suppose they want to keep people ignorant of their rights regarding clamping.


http://www.dsps.ie/site/index.htm

Absurdum

there are dozens of threads on it here and in the Legal Discussion forum

eg

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056147876&highlight=clamping

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055949024&highlight=clamping

I personally wouldn't remove a DCC clamp, then again I wouldn't give them a reason to clamp me. A private company can feck right off though, they threaten and intimidate people into paying (i.e. extortion), they WILL NOT PURSUE LEGAL ACTION against anyone because a court will most likely laugh at them

Victor_M

Private clampers are gangsters, they are operating within a grey area that remains grey as no one is going to bring them to court over a €120 fine, and vice versa if one of their clamps is removed they never follow up as it would be laughed out of court and potentially a judge may set a precedent and outlaw them completely.

We have illegal clamping in my estate, I saw a car clamped on Thursday parked on the public road, out side someones house, perfectly legally on no lines, the person who's house it is called the clampers as he thinks he owns the road out the front of his house, it saddens me to think that the poor sucker probably paid the €120 removal fee.

There have been plenty of clamps removed with with an angle grinder where I live and there hasn't been a word said, they prey on this not industrious enough to remove them themselves.

DCC clamps on the other hand are a different matter, they are well within their rights to clamp you IF you are parked incorrectly, you would be pursued for criminal damages if you removed one of their clamps. If you feel unjustly clamped you are better off paying and disputing through the correct channels.

thats not gone well

Victor_M wrote: »

you would be pursued for criminal damages if you removed one of their clamps.

Only if the clamp is damaged in the process of removing it.
I’m still looking for an updated version of the 1933 RTA with regards to clamping/immobilisation of vehicles.

MinnyMinor

Victor_M wrote: »

, I saw a car clamped on Thursday parked on the public road, out side someones house, perfectly legally on no lines, the person who's house it is called the clampers as he thinks he owns the road out the front of his house, .

was it blocking the clampers exit?

MagicSean

Here is my current understanding.

Dublin City Council and County County councils generally have a statutory power to clamp vehicles. It is usually an offence to remove it.

Private clampers have no power to clamp vehicles on public property without authorisation from the local county council. If they do so they are committing an offence under section 113 of the road traffic acts.

Private clamping on private property is a different matter. If you can remove the clamp with out damaging it in any way there is no criminal offence committed. They may try to sue you for the €80 but it's doubtful. If you damage the clamp to remove it you are committing an offence of Criminal Damage.

As was already said it is a very grey area and will stay that way until they are brought to court by someone.

gyppo

k_mac wrote: »

Here is my current understanding.


Private clamping on private property is a different matter. If you can remove the clamp with out damaging it in any way there is no criminal offence committed. They may try to sue you for the €80 but it's doubtful. If you damage the clamp to remove it you are committing an offence of Criminal Damage.

Heres a question that I'd like an answer to:

Scenario is this - private clamping firm employed by my employers to clamp illegally parked cars within the companies grounds.
What if someone removed a clamp, destroying it in the process, and drove off with the clamp, thus removing all evidence of there ever been a clamp there?
Provided there were no witnesses, have the clampers a case??

Bigus

gyppo wrote: »

Heres a question that I'd like an answer to:

Scenario is this - private clamping firm employed by my employers to clamp illegally parked cars within the companies grounds.
What if someone removed a clamp, destroying it in the process, and drove off with the clamp, thus removing all evidence of there ever been a clamp there?
Provided there were no witnesses, have the clampers a case??

They always take photo evidence of the clamped car

gyppo

Bigus wrote: »

They always take photo evidence of the clamped car

Yes, but supposed the owner pleaded ignorance - he/she came back to their car, said they saw no sign of any clamp, and drove off as normal. Could they claim that an anti-clamper vigilante must have been in the area?


Sorry if you think Im drawing this out - I know where this happened, the clampers jumped up and down with rage and threatened all sorts of action, but could never prove anything against the person who was clamped.

kildare.17hmr

i tok a clamp off me brother in laws car yesterday, it was NCPS, i returned it thismornin to the clamper who told me nothin can be done because i didnt damage it. dublin city council would be a different story id imagine because its local government but private clampers whip em of lads dont pay a penny!

pieface_ie

Yes, but supposed the owner pleaded ignorance - he/she came back to their car, said they saw no sign of any clamp, and drove off as normal. Could they claim that an anti-clamper vigilante must have been in the area?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGQMq3hNv-g

slimjimmc

pieface_ie wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGQMq3hNv-g

Wow, some superhero. Knows exactly where the car is without being given directions and is a role model for anyone who thinks safety goggles are to protect their forehead from sparks.

-Corkie-

pieface_ie wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGQMq3hNv-g

LOL..:D

thats not gone well

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

whip em of lads dont pay a penny!

Or if you’re feeling really brave try and sell it back to them for

Victor

Jumboman wrote: »

Is it a criminal or civil offence to remove a Dublin City Council clamp ?

It would be a criminal matter, stemming formt he parking. I'm not sure about the removal as such. Any damage to the clamp would be criminal.

If Dublin City Council clamp your car how long do you have to pay them before they can take your car away ?

They can take it away immediately if they want, but they prioritise bus lanes, wheelchair spaces, loading bays, etc.

hoodie6029

If someone parks in my driveway and I close and lock the gate and refuse to open it until they pay me €120, have I commited a criminal offence? Would the car owner be able to persue a civil action against me?

flutered

if one searches boards there is (was) a thread on how to remove a clamp, the items required can be bought over the counter, it works, as i used it, but i replaced the lock with one got from aldi to which i used some superglue in the keyhole, i cannot say any more here, change from a tenner, plus enough left over for the next time.:D:D

Del2005

hoodie6029 wrote: »

If someone parks in my driveway and I close and lock the gate and refuse to open it until they pay me €120, have I commited a criminal offence?

I can't remember the exact wording of the law, it's been posted in nearly all the threads linked to already, but it's illegal to restrict a persons access to their vehicle. So yes you have an committed an offence but it's civil not criminal.

If the person who you locked into your drive way could get their vehicle out without doing any damage to your property there is nothing you can do.

hoodie6029 wrote: »

Would the car owner be able to persue a civil action against me?

Yes, but it would cost them more then €120 and as it's civil law they make not get costs even if they win. Same way if the person you locked in damaged you're property on the way out you could take them to civil court for damages.

Victor_M said all this in post #5, just change gangster clampers for gangster hoodie6029:D

Jumboman

flutered wrote: »

if one searches boards there is (was) a thread on how to remove a clamp, the items required can be bought over the counter, it works, as i used it, but i replaced the lock with one got from aldi to which i used some superglue in the keyhole, i cannot say any more here, change from a tenner, plus enough left over for the next time.:D:D

Can you enlighten us ? I believe bolt cutters do not work on Dublin City Council clamps because their chains are made of hardened steel.

Jumboman

Victor wrote: »

It would be a criminal matter, stemming formt he parking. I'm not sure about the removal as such. Any damage to the clamp would be criminal.

Would it still be a criminal matter if the individual could prove they were wrongfully clamped ? I dont see why someone should pay up and then appeal if they were clamped in the wrong.

I wonder can people sue the clampers if they are clamped in the wrong ?

Del2005

Jumboman wrote: »

Would it still be a criminal matter if the individual could prove they were wrongfully clamped ? I dont see why someone should pay up and then appeal if they were clamped in the wrong.

Yes, DCC and other local authority clampers have legal standing and a working appeals process. Private clampers have no legal standing and no working appeals process.

If you get clamped by a local authority clamper and can prove that you where legally parked you'll get your money back, but nothing extra, on appeal.

If you get clamped by a private company go to Woodies for your appeal.

Jumboman wrote: »

I wonder can people sue the clampers if they are clamped in the wrong ?

You can sue anyone for anything if you have the time and money, but I doubt it would be worth suing clampers. You'd need to hire a solicitor and go to court all for a €120 fine with the chance you won't be awarded costs.

Victor_M

MinnyMinor wrote: »

was it blocking the clampers exit?

Nope, just parked properly on the public road outside the persons house.

antodeco

The biggest grey area is what is classed as public property and what is classed as private property.

slimjimmc

antodeco wrote: »

The biggest grey area is what is classed as public property and what is classed as private property.

How so?
Perhaps you mean "public place" which could still be private property, e.g. a shop's car park.

busman

Print out this and stick it to your window!

Jumboman

Del2005 wrote: »

You can sue anyone for anything if you have the time and money, but I doubt it would be worth suing clampers. You'd need to hire a solicitor and go to court all for a €120 fine with the chance you won't be awarded costs.

It wouldnt just be he E120 fine someone could of lost their job or surfed any number of losses eg holidays business opportunities etc all because they were clamped in the wrong.

Jumboman

busman wrote: »

Print out this and stick it to your window!

I like that:D Everyone should put that on their car.

jon1981

my experience

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055980168

Jumboman

We need someone like Charles Bronson to deal with the clamping problem in Ireland:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvSwpljtxlg

Sandwlch

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

i tok a clamp off me brother in laws car yesterday, it was NCPS, i returned it thismornin to the clamper who told me nothin can be done because i didnt damage it.

Why did you trouble yourself to return it to them? They left it on the side of the road (allbeit attached to his wheel). So do you not just leave it there as you drive away. If its stolen, then is it not their fault for leaving it there in the first place?

If private clampers are clamping illegally, then why can you not damage the clamp if they have no basis for immobilising your car ? Are you not entitled to use an angle grinder without fear of penalty if you wish ?

flutered

Jumboman wrote: »

Can you enlighten us ? I believe bolt cutters do not work on Dublin City Council clamps because their chains are made of hardened steel.

one goes to halfords, one purchases a can of dry air, plus a pair of waterproof gloves and a 2lb hammer, the latter two in case one does not have them, spray the dry air into the lock, it freezes immediatly, hit lock a heavy slap with the hammer, lock disingtrates, remove lock remove chain, replace lock with one from aldi (4euro) stick match into the lock, just incase they have a master key, drive away, come back and video the clamper looking at his clamp, the rest is priceless, hopefully i will not get baned or sanctioned, (i have a habit of that happening).

kildare.17hmr

Sandwlch wrote: »

Why did you trouble yourself to return it to them? They left it on the side of the road (allbeit attached to his wheel). So do you not just leave it there as you drive away. If its stolen, then is it not their fault for leaving it there in the first place?

If private clampers are clamping illegally, then why can you not damage the clamp if they have no basis for immobilising your car ? Are you not entitled to use an angle grinder without fear of penalty if you wish ?

Giving it back was pricless, we walked up and said we found it, he asked where and i said attached to my wheel:p If it wasnt returned its stealing and ya cant damage it or they can try do ya

CALLY0412

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

Giving it back was pricless, we walked up and said we found it, he asked where and i said attached to my wheel:p If it wasnt returned its stealing and ya cant damage it or they can try do ya

I like your style..

Sister was clamped today in an ncps car park and they are refusing to take the clamp off despite the fact that there was a ticket in the window.

Max Power1

New World Order wrote: »

I called pearse st garda station, it is illegal to take the clamp off, and you can be done for theft if you do?

LOL

Please provide a relevant statute.

CALLY0412

New World Order wrote: »

I called pearse st garda station, it is illegal to take the clamp off, and you can be done for theft if you do?

Is that not just for the council clamps??
Don't think there is any regulation surrounding the private clamping companies so they cant prosecute you..
Have been told as well from a guy that used to work for one of these companies that they don't even try to prosecute people because the law favours the clampee as private clamping is not provided for in law-so technically illegal...

mgbgt1978

New World Order wrote: »

I called pearse st garda station, it is illegal to take the clamp off, and you can be done for theft if you do?

It's a Clamper lads. Just ignore him.:p

Needler

Whenever you see a clamped car just call up, say you have the money and want the clamp removed. Use false details and if possible a spare mobile phone. Keep em busy!

jd

Needler wrote: »

Whenever you see a clamped car just call up, say you have the money and want the clamp removed. Use false details and if possible a spare mobile phone. Keep em busy!

They'll want credit card details before they send anyone around.

jd

New World Order wrote: »

Now Fine Gale are two steps behind the UK, where its outlawed, but instead they issue tickets...They just need to go to a ticketing system, ban clamping on private property..

What kind of ticketing system are you proposing for private property?

Anan1

jd wrote: »

What kind of ticketing system are you proposing for private property?

A ticketing system will have to be paid for through increased parking charges. Why should I have to subsidize people who park illegally? As i've said before, the people who shout loudest about clamping are the very people who make it necessary in the first place.

stevenmu

CALLY0412 wrote: »

private clamping is not provided for in law-so technically illegal...

This is not correct. Something is only illegal if it is explicitly made so in law. There's an argument to be made about interfering with someone's property (their car), but equally there's a very strong argument to be made that by parking on private property you are submitting to their terms and conditions.

jd

Anan1 wrote: »

As i've said before, the people who shout loudest about clamping are the very people who make it necessary in the first place.

I agree. Parking in our complex was a mess until clamping was reluctantly introduced by the management company. Now there are sufficient visitor spaces for genuine visitors and inconsiderate parking is a rare enough occurrence.

Anan1

@New World Order: So you moved into an apartment complex, the management company told you that you needed to get a parking permit to use their car park, you didn't get one, you got clamped, and all this is their fault?:D

Needler

Anan1 wrote: »

As i've said before, the people who shout loudest about clamping are the very people who make it necessary in the first place.

I never "make it necessary" yet whenever I see a clamped car it makes my blood boil and all clampers should be shot

jd

Needler wrote: »

I never "make it necessary" yet whenever I see a clamped car it makes my blood boil and all clampers should be shot

What I felt like shooting were the a-holes who used our visitor spaces rather than the long term car park in Dublin Airport. Clamping put a stop to that nonsense.

Needler

jd wrote: »

What I felt like shooting were the a-holes who used our visitor spaces rather than the long term car park in Dublin Airport. Clamping put a stop to that nonsense.

Ah jaysus you couldn't find a parking space straight away, absolutely terrible and much worse than some greedy fecker holding your car to ransom with a lump of metal

jd

Needler wrote: »

Ah jaysus you couldn't find a parking space straight away, absolutely terrible and much worse than some greedy fecker holding your car to ransom with a lump of metal

Actually there were problems with genuine visitors finding a space to park at all. It works and is proportionate in this case..

Needler

jd wrote: »

Actually there were problems with genuine visitors finding a space to park at all.

Thats cities for you. Too many people and nowhere to park. Even in places where those clamping sh1theads operate there can be nowhere to park. Surely there is a better way to reserve a parking space for a genuine visitors without making these clamping slybags rich

Needler

jd wrote: »

They'll want credit card details before they send anyone around.

Depend on the clamper I suppose, I heard a lot of them were paid in cash