Mammies and the Census

Calibos

Jaysus, Mary and Joseph, I need a cigarette. I've just had the most frustrating arguement/debate to date with my mother on the issue of the census and schools instigated after she read the article about the guy in the northwest having to send his kid to a school 20 miles away.

Frustrating, because all her counter arguements were of the status quo and catholic mammy variety and yet she is an intelligent woman, an agnostic and 'militant' enough to have a very public arguement with a hospital receptionist about her disgust at being asked the religion question??

WTF! :rolleyes:

I just can't get her to understand the point that the census doesn't care what you were baptised as.....

well you fill it in then!!
FFS, I am legally not allowed, you have to fill it in You ask me what you should tick, I say No Religion, You do it
If I fill it in, I am going to put down catholic.
ARRGGGGHHHH

The ultimate irony is that most of her reasoning not to rock the boat in terms of schools and hospitals is that we are in such a minority that whats the point, The state doesn't have the funds to set up separate schools and hospitals for such a small mininority. She'd prefer the funds went to existing schools and hospitals even if it meant atheists/agnostics had to lie or pretend.

I tried to explain that this is why the census was a big deal, that the state pays 99% of the cost of running all these schools and hospitals anyway, that no new infrastructure or staff would be needed, merely the signing over of some land/premises deeds and the changin of the school/hospital constitutions to a secular ethos rather than a religious one. In one ear and out the other. Not seeing the issues as related...etc etc Talk about compartmentalistion of the religious!!

I am just so frustrated at the moment with her. She is a damn intelligent woman. I just can't understand it. <snip>

Maybe part of the problem is the parent/'Child' relationship. Some parents will always think of their kids as...well kids, can't accept that you might know more about a certain issue than them. She seems to be more accepting of written arguements on a given issue by a third party. More likely to read every point in a written piece whereas in a verbal debate she will argue the minuatae, distracting the arguement before the point is fully made, take the arguement off on tangents etc shut down and cease the debate when there is the slightest hint of animation in the debating style due to frustration etc. I am not talking about shouting, I am talking about if I start tapping the table with a finger or gesticulating while making points. This of course means this is becoming a fight. :rolleyes:

I dunno, I just needed to get this of my chest. Can anyone point me to a link that discusses the Census/School/Hospital issue that I can leave for her to read.....Then again I know the result of doing that. She'll refuse to read it because 'I just won't let it drop, will I.....':rolleyes:

aceygray

Calibos wrote: »

FFS, I am legally not allowed, you have to fill it in You ask me what you should tick, I say No Religion, You do it
If I fill it in, I am going to put down catholic.

I'm a bit confused here - are you saying that your mother will tick the "Catholic" box for you, against your will? :eek:

The Mad Hatter

Why can't you fill it in yourself? From what you said, I think she wouldn't mind so much if you put in no religion; she just doesn't seem comfortable doing it for you.

seamus

Calibos wrote: »

FFS, I am legally not allowed, you have to fill it in

That's not entirely accurate actually. Any adult member of the household can fill out the entire form. Each person doesn't have to fill it in separately.

This in itself is a problem because mammies will tick Roman Catholic for their child who lives 200 miles away, but comes home at the weekends.

Dan133269

Calibos wrote: »

Frustrating, because all her counter arguements were of the status quo and catholic mammy variety and yet she is an intelligent woman, an agnostic and 'militant' enough to have a very public arguement with a hospital receptionist about her disgust at being asked the religion question??

I was going into hospital only a couple of years ago when I was asked my religion for my details, I replied atheist and the woman looked up at me as if I had about 10 heads, it was priceless. She had clearly never heard that word before. I then just said "no religion" and she understood.

Dades

I think Calibos is saying she's going to put down RC for herself. A bizarre piece of reasoning under the circumstances I agree.

Calibos, if your mum is concerned about the legal aspect of it - remind her that babies baptised are far too young to enter a legally binding contract. Also remind her that RC canon law might as well be Sharia Law for the relevance it has to our legal system.

Risteard

I'll be making sure the no religion box is ticked anyway. Shouldn't be too much of a problem, my mother despite being a regular mass goer and so on gives me the impression that she wouldn't really care what I was so long as I was happy anyway.

MagicMarker

Didn't make it past the first couple of paragraph's tbh.

Can someone tell me what's going on?

matrim

MagicMarker wrote: »

Didn't make it past the first couple of paragraph's tbh.

Can someone tell me what's going on?

If I understand correctly, Calibos mother is an agnostic but on the census form will put herself down as a Catholic.

ChocolateSauce

Sounds frustrating....

Busi_Girl08

seamus wrote: »

That's not entirely accurate actually. Any adult member of the household can fill out the entire form. Each person doesn't have to fill it in separately.

This in itself is a problem because mammies will tick Roman Catholic for their child who lives 200 miles away, but comes home at the weekends.

Oooh what a year for me to be living 200 miles away, and to come home every few weekends
This will the the first time the issue of my religion on the census will come up, I think.

It will be interesting to see how the plays out, considering that my Mum doesn't really think of herself as a Cathy Lick anymore, but "likes to believe" in an Afterlife, and would be disappointed if I didn't baptise my future children.

Galvasean

Busi_Girl08 wrote: »

It will be interesting to see how the plays out, considering that my Mum doesn't really think of herself as a Cathy Lick anymore, but "likes to believe" in an Afterlife, and would be disappointed if I didn't baptise my future children.

Such is the hypocritical conundrum an entire generation finds itself in. Why be disappointed about such a thing if you don't even believe yourself? Sadly, there are thousands, if not millions like this in our country.

matrim

Busi_Girl08 wrote: »

Oooh what a year for me to be living 200 miles away, and to come home every few weekends
This will the the first time the issue of my religion on the census will come up, I think.

It will be interesting to see how the plays out, considering that my Mum doesn't really think of herself as a Cathy Lick anymore, but "likes to believe" in an Afterlife, and would be disappointed if I didn't baptise my future children.

You could just not head home that weekend. IIRC you are supposed to put down where you are staying that night (or normally live), so if you are in your own place fill it out yourself and let her know that

goose2005

Is it taken at the midnight between Sat-Sun or the Sun-Mon midnight?

Aoifums

My dad wants to do the same :rolleyes: I guess I'll be having the same debate with him some time in the near future.

Des Carter

Who cares what you put down?

Des Carter

Des Carter wrote: »

Who cares what you put down?

The catholic church so they can claim "we need more catholic schools"

Des Carter

bluewolf wrote: »

The catholic church so they can claim "we need more catholic schools"

Whats wrong with more schools?

Des Carter

Des Carter wrote: »

Whats wrong with more schools?

Nothing, they'll hopefully teach people how to read posts properly

Des Carter

bluewolf wrote: »

Nothing, they'll hopefully teach people how to read posts properly

Sorry you lost me

bipedalhumanoid

Des Carter wrote: »

Sorry you lost me

Scroll up, read the posts, and then come back to us slugger.

Des Carter

OHHH the catholic part - who cares if a school is catholic or not?

Des Carter

Des Carter wrote: »

OHHH the catholic part - who cares if a school is catholic or not?

:rolleyes:
a lot of people, obviously
over 50% according to that Iona poll, IIRC

Des Carter

bluewolf wrote: »

:rolleyes:
a lot of people, obviously
over 50% according to that Iona poll, IIRC

Which poll, is there a link. And do over 50% say they dont want catholic schools or that they dont want more catholic schools?

kylith

Des Carter wrote: »

OHHH the catholic part - who cares if a school is catholic or not?

If there are more Catholic schools then that means more Catholic doctrine being taught and more children having religion forced on them. If fewer people identify as Catholic there will be more non-religious schools and fewer children will have religion forced on them, leaving them free to make up their own minds on religion.

Des Carter

kylith wrote: »

If there are more Catholic schools then that means more Catholic doctrine being taught and more children having religion forced on them. If fewer people identify as Catholic there will be more non-religious schools and fewer children will have religion forced on them, leaving them free to make up their own minds on religion.

First off thank you for answering my question properly and in response as far as Im aware you can choose to not participate in the religious aspects if you choose and so religion isnt forced on them.

smokingman

Des Carter wrote: »

First off thank you for answering my question properly and in response as far as Im aware you can choose to not participate in the religious aspects if you choose and so religion isnt forced on them.

You'd obviously have no qualms about sending your own kids to a school run by scientologists then so. Two hours of "The history and spaceship future of L. Ron Hubbard" each day wouldn't put you off either by the sound of it.

Ghost Buster

If folk want their kids to learn about magic, supernatural beings and such could they not send them to Hog Worts and let the Muggles get on with maths, languages, reading and other hum drum educational stuff?

Des Carter

smokingman wrote: »

You'd obviously have no qualms about sending your own kids to a school run by scientologists then so. Two hours of "The history and spaceship future of L. Ron Hubbard" each day wouldn't put you off either by the sound of it.

No I wouldnt have a problem if they taught them the proper classes like english irish maths etc and if they were allowed not participate in the scientology rituals.

Des Carter

Des Carter wrote: »

No I wouldnt have a problem if they taught them the proper classes like english irish maths etc and if they were allowed not participate in the scientology rituals.

And if the school said they were allowed not to participate but involved your kid anyway behind your back?

Mark Hamill

Des Carter wrote: »

No I wouldnt have a problem if they taught them the proper classes like english irish maths etc and if they were allowed not participate in the scientology rituals.

Would you not have a problem having to pay for these scientology classes?

keppler

Des Carter wrote: »

No I wouldnt have a problem if they taught them the proper classes like english irish maths etc and if they were allowed not participate in the scientology rituals.

Good for you:)
However, there are alot of people in the country who would have a problem sending there kids to a school of religious denomination whatever it may be.
There are alot of non religious people paying tax in Ireland and with the current situation they are in all practicality, being denied a constitutional right

Dades

Do we need to pollute this thread with answers to needless questions that have been answered in every other bloody thread?

Des Carter, I see you've found this thread so any more school stuff here and the whole lot gets deleted.

Des Carter

Dades wrote: »

Do we need to pollute this thread with answers to needless questions that have been answered in every other bloody thread?

Des Carter, I see you've found this thread so any more school stuff here and the whole lot gets deleted.

Why are you singling me out, I asked who cares what the op puts down and the answer that was givin was about schools. I did not bring up schools, Blue Wolf did, I was just trying to gain some clarification.
Thanks

3DataModem

matrim wrote: »

You could just not head home that weekend. IIRC you are supposed to put down where you are staying that night (or normally live), so if you are in your own place fill it out yourself and let her know that

You are only supposed to put down where you stay that night. If you are out all night you should be counted in the first home you arrive in the next morning.

So the people living in Dublin and popping back at weekends should make sure they are counted once, and counted in the correct place.

If they care about the census being correct, of course.

Dades

Des Carter wrote: »

Why are you singling me out...

I singled you out for these posts...

Des Carter wrote: »

bluewolf wrote: »

The catholic church so they can claim "we need more catholic schools"

Whats wrong with more schools?

Des Carter wrote: »

OHHH the catholic part - who cares if a school is catholic or not?

... which showed either intentional or inexcusable ignorance of the single most talked about topic on this forum (which you are not a stranger to). You didn't receive a formal card or anything - just a request to move on - so unless you want one, leave it at that.

roosh

Calibos wrote: »

Jaysus, Mary and Joseph, I need a cigarette. I've just had the most frustrating arguement/debate to date with my mother on the issue of the census and schools instigated after she read the article about the guy in the northwest having to send his kid to a school 20 miles away.

Frustrating, because all her counter arguements were of the status quo and catholic mammy variety and yet she is an intelligent woman, an agnostic and 'militant' enough to have a very public arguement with a hospital receptionist about her disgust at being asked the religion question??

WTF! :rolleyes:

I just can't get her to understand the point that the census doesn't care what you were baptised as.....

well you fill it in then!!
FFS, I am legally not allowed, you have to fill it in You ask me what you should tick, I say No Religion, You do it
If I fill it in, I am going to put down catholic.
ARRGGGGHHHH

The ultimate irony is that most of her reasoning not to rock the boat in terms of schools and hospitals is that we are in such a minority that whats the point, The state doesn't have the funds to set up separate schools and hospitals for such a small mininority. She'd prefer the funds went to existing schools and hospitals even if it meant atheists/agnostics had to lie or pretend.

I tried to explain that this is why the census was a big deal, that the state pays 99% of the cost of running all these schools and hospitals anyway, that no new infrastructure or staff would be needed, merely the signing over of some land/premises deeds and the changin of the school/hospital constitutions to a secular ethos rather than a religious one. In one ear and out the other. Not seeing the issues as related...etc etc Talk about compartmentalistion of the religious!!

I am just so frustrated at the moment with her. She is a damn intelligent woman. I just can't understand it. <snip>

Maybe part of the problem is the parent/'Child' relationship. Some parents will always think of their kids as...well kids, can't accept that you might know more about a certain issue than them. She seems to be more accepting of written arguements on a given issue by a third party. More likely to read every point in a written piece whereas in a verbal debate she will argue the minuatae, distracting the arguement before the point is fully made, take the arguement off on tangents etc shut down and cease the debate when there is the slightest hint of animation in the debating style due to frustration etc. I am not talking about shouting, I am talking about if I start tapping the table with a finger or gesticulating while making points. This of course means this is becoming a fight. :rolleyes:

I dunno, I just needed to get this of my chest. Can anyone point me to a link that discusses the Census/School/Hospital issue that I can leave for her to read.....Then again I know the result of doing that. She'll refuse to read it because 'I just won't let it drop, will I.....':rolleyes:

can you not just fill in the religion part, and let her fill in the rest?

Calibos

Well I will be doing that, its just the annoyance of having to do that and her not seeing the logic of my arguements despite the fact that she is at the very least as intelligent as me.

Tar.Aldarion

I cant understand some of my friends even clicking catholic, when they know they are not. Confusing stuff. 'I don't know why' is the answer I usually get when I ask about it.

Dades

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

I cant understand some of my friends even clicking catholic, when they know they are not. Confusing stuff. 'I don't know why' is the answer I usually get when I ask about it.

I assume then you launched into a diatribe about how they are part of the problem and not the solution?

Tar.Aldarion

Oh there were diatribes everywhere (that's really funny because that day the girl said her word of the day was diatribe!), that or I had more pizza.

amacachi

Oh FFS.
"You better not put me down as Catholic on the census."
"But that's what you are, you were baptised one."
"Oh FFS."
"And you said yourself you can't leave the church now."

Fantastic.

studiorat

I would urge everybody to tick "Buddhist" just for the hell of it.

Improbable

amacachi wrote: »

Oh FFS.
"You better not put me down as Catholic on the census."
"But that's what you are, you were baptised one."
"Oh FFS."
"And you said yourself you can't leave the church now."

Fantastic.

Only in the eyes of the church, not in the eyes of the government.

amacachi

Improbable wrote: »

Only in the eyes of the church, not in the eyes of the government.

Still looks like I'm going to have to pounce on the form though. Think it has to be filled in on a certain day so I'll be waiting at midnight. :pac:

Improbable

amacachi wrote: »

Still looks like I'm going to have to pounce on the form though. Think it has to be filled in on a certain day so I'll be waiting at midnight. :pac:

I shall have great pride in filling out no religion for my entire household.

roosh

Calibos wrote: »

Well I will be doing that, its just the annoyance of having to do that and her not seeing the logic of my arguements despite the fact that she is at the very least as intelligent as me.

That's understandable alright; but if you fill out that part of the form yourself, it could have the psychological effect of demonstrating to your mother, just how seriously you view this issue.

Handsome Bob

Just filled it out.

*awaits mammy's wrath once she realises I put down no religion*

:pac:

Dades

LZ5by5 wrote: »

*awaits mammy's wrath once she realises I put down no religion*

Nailz

Dades wrote: »

Does the date really a make difference?

Improbable

Nailz wrote: »

Does the date really a make difference?

Look below that.