Masters and Devils

legaleagle10

Does anyone know how to go about getting a Master to devil with? The only knowledge I can find out is the list off the Inns website?

Is it just a case of literally picking up the phone, do you have to send a CV? When should you ring Barrister i.e closer to your entrance exams/after your entrance exams/when you graduate?? Can anyone shed some light on this?

thanks

LE

NoQuarter

Hi legaleagle,

As far as i know the list on the inns site is for the current inns students. However i do know of some barristers that are committed to devils a number of years in advance so it is quit possible to have a master booked so to speak.

Im sure the others an give a more detailed answer.

legaleagle10

NoQuarter wrote: »

Hi legaleagle,

As far as i know the list on the inns site is for the current inns students. However i do know of some barristers that are committed to devils a number of years in advance so it is quit possible to have a master booked so to speak.

Im sure the others an give a more detailed answer.

Hi, thanks for getting back to me, when I done a course for the Inns a while back there were fellow students who had Masters booked already before they sat their exams and I thought... well what if you don't pass your entrance exams!!? what an embarrassing phone call to make to the Barrister lol:o. But in fairness, its probably the best way to go ie get the Master before the exams??

I wish there was a "How to" website, so many questions i need answered! haha. I suppose you literally just ring them up?

Reloc8

Ring up and introduce yourself. Explain what you are seeking to arrange. Barristers get these phone calls all the time and are well used to it. Take it from there.

legaleagle10

Reloc8 wrote: »

Ring up and introduce yourself. Explain what you are seeking to arrange. Barristers get these phone calls all the time and are well used to it. Take it from there.

Thanks Reloc8, will try that

FreudianSlippers

Cold calling and emails are a good way. Try to have an idea of what area you'd like to practice in, whether or not you'd be open to working on circuit, criminal vs civil, etc.

Have a look around the lawlibrary website and see who peaks your interest.

I don't think you're wrong for lining up a master before your entrance exams. I had my master lined up well before I took the exams. Good ones can go quickly!

legaleagle10

OisinT wrote: »

Cold calling and emails are a good way. Try to have an idea of what area you'd like to practice in, whether or not you'd be open to working on circuit, criminal vs civil, etc.

Have a look around the lawlibrary website and see who peaks your interest.

I don't think you're wrong for lining up a master before your entrance exams. I had my master lined up well before I took the exams. Good ones can go quickly!

thanks Oisin, just started seem to be getting alot of voice recorded msgs!... at the risk of sounding pathetic but when should I call back? i dont want to be hounding the Barrister! I mean i have the mobile number but havent rang yet as they havent come back to me from the previous voicemail, im sure the barrister is busy etc do you suggest waiting a few days??

Reloc8

I would follow up a voice mail with email a few days later, where you havn't gotten through directly.

On no response to your email within say a week or so you can probably assume nothing is going to come of it.

There's no problem with having multiple approaches out there so to speak at the same time (that is not to say you should mass mail the lawlibrary but its ok to try and contact 3 or 4 people about devilling at the same time)

legaleagle10

Reloc8 wrote: »

I would follow up a voice mail with email a few days later, where you havn't gotten through directly.

On no response to your email within say a week or so you can probably assume nothing is going to come of it.

There's no problem with having multiple approaches out there so to speak at the same time (that is not to say you should mass mail the lawlibrary but its ok to try and contact 3 or 4 people about devilling at the same time)

Thanks for that reloc8 very helpful to me, I think ill do the email thing next if I dont hear back...although they are more likley to pick up the mobile??

The only thing is would it not look bad emailing two or three people at a time (which I have in mind). Just thinking if i was lucky enough for two of them to take me on..imagine ringing the other saying..ah sure i dont need you anymore im going with someone else lol....The person i rang recently is my 1st choice so im anxious to hear back (but tbh dont think I will today! shouldnt be negative!) which is why I dont want to ring a second person for them to take me on and miss out on my 1st choice

FreudianSlippers

legaleagle10 wrote: »

Thanks for that reloc8 very helpful to me, I think ill do the email thing next if I dont hear back...although they are more likley to pick up the mobile??

The only thing is would it not look bad emailing two or three people at a time (which I have in mind). Just thinking if i was lucky enough for two of them to take me on..imagine ringing the other saying..ah sure i dont need you anymore im going with someone else lol....The person i rang recently is my 1st choice so im anxious to hear back (but tbh dont think I will today! shouldnt be negative!) which is why I dont want to ring a second person for them to take me on and miss out on my 1st choice

I wouldn't send out a mass email. I've heard stories about people doing:

"Dear Diarmuid..."

and getting a response like: "I'm not Diarmuid... good luck finding a master"






Send out a relatively short and to the point email. Say who you are, what you want, what you're interested in, why you chose them... etc.

legaleagle10

LMAO..what a nightmare! :Ddefo wont be doing that! I have three people in mind that would be good, should I email all of them (separately of course!) and see what the story is?

OisinT wrote: »

I wouldn't send out a mass email. I've heard stories about people doing:

"Dear Diarmuid..."

and getting a response like: "I'm not Diarmuid... good luck finding a master"






Send out a relatively short and to the point email. Say who you are, what you want, what you're interested in, why you chose them... etc.

legaleagle10

okay guys, I have to vent! I'm feeling a bit disheartened about getting a Master...I'm ringing/emailing some of the barristers and they wont call me back, or wont answer the phone!?? I got through to one and havent heard back in over a week? I've never done this before so did anyone else have this experience when they were looking for one? My friends that do have them made it sound easy! now im worried about getting one

I mean I know they're busy and all could that be the reason? sign!

Tom Young

Keep trying!

Busy, probably.

Core court times are 10 am - 1 pm (lunch) 2 pm to 4/4:15pm bare that in mind.

Also, we are early in the Second term. Many may not be focussed on devils yet.

Tom

Tom Young

PS: Any time not a core Court time, above. Is a real work time (1 - 2 is lunch)

legaleagle10

thanks for that Tom, I'll keep trying. The barrister (My 1st choice) doesnt seem to be ringing me back and I dont want to be annoying the man, i mean is this how it usually goes?? When does trying to contact someone become harrassment/annoyance. I think i'll move on to someone else? My friends that have them already made it sound easy! looking at the Masters list and i think one person has a master booked since 2008! maybe i should have done that!

Its not going too well for me:(

Tom Young wrote: »

PS: Any time not a core Court time, above. Is a real work time (1 - 2 is lunch)

Reloc8

If you've not heard back within a week or so move on to someone else.

legaleagle10

yea, think you're right..ill find someone else then

Reloc8 wrote: »

If you've not heard back within a week or so move on to someone else.

johnnyskeleton

legaleagle10 wrote: »

okay guys, I have to vent! I'm feeling a bit disheartened about getting a Master...

Don't worry, the law library, the kings inns or some ungodly amalgamation of the two has promised that everyone who wants a master can get one. You will get one.

legaleagle10 wrote: »

I'm ringing/emailing some of the barristers and they wont call me back, or wont answer the phone!?? I got through to one and havent heard back in over a week?

Any barrister who doesn't ring you back is:
1) busy at the moment and has forgotten;
2) a jerk;
3) out of the game.

You don't want to devil for the latter two types, so make a reminder phonecall about a week later, saying youre sorry to ring again but that you need to get sorted either way. If they don't respond to that then they belong to 2) or 3).

legaleagle10 wrote: »

I mean I know they're busy and all could that be the reason? sign!

No, that's just an excuse. If you think about it, barristers who are busy didn't get that way by being rude to solicitors. And if they wish to stay that way they certainly don't want to be rude to solicitors. That being the case, they will regularly check their messages from missed calls and so if they don't call you back, it is probably because they are not worth deviling for.

Remember that you will get a better experience and more work from a master who is kinda busy and decent, than a barrister who is extremely busy but an unpleasant person.

legaleagle10

Thanks Johnny for that, I feel crap over it tbh cause I rang the person last week and got through (and sent an email) then I rang back a week later twice but no answer? I mean they cant be busy every second of the day? I'm sure taking on a devil is the last thing on his list but still. Wrecking my head. I mean even a text would suffice! I'll give it one more shot next week and if he doesnt ring back feck it, i'll get someone else probably doing myself a favour!

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Don't worry, the law library, the kings inns or some ungodly amalgamation of the two has promised that everyone who wants a master can get one. You will get one.



Any barrister who doesn't ring you back is:
1) busy at the moment and has forgotten;
2) a jerk;
3) out of the game.

You don't want to devil for the latter two types, so make a reminder phonecall about a week later, saying youre sorry to ring again but that you need to get sorted either way. If they don't respond to that then they belong to 2) or 3).



No, that's just an excuse. If you think about it, barristers who are busy didn't get that way by being rude to solicitors. And if they wish to stay that way they certainly don't want to be rude to solicitors. That being the case, they will regularly check their messages from missed calls and so if they don't call you back, it is probably because they are not worth deviling for.

Remember that you will get a better experience and more work from a master who is kinda busy and decent, than a barrister who is extremely busy but an unpleasant person.

legaleagle10

Hey guys, so I rang again, no answer (surprise surprise) so had to leave another message.I just said I need to get a Master sorted and could they come back to me... I feel like a nuisance ringing once a week. This is my third phone call to the person, think I'll take the hint! boo hiss

Can anyone share their experience of obtaining a Master? do you suggest leaving it till I actually get into the Inns or keep doing what im doing now?

johnnyskeleton

legaleagle10 wrote: »

Hey guys, so I rang again, no answer (surprise surprise) so had to leave another message.I just said I need to get a Master sorted and could they come back to me... I feel like a nuisance ringing once a week. This is my third phone call to the person, think I'll take the hint! boo hiss

Can anyone share their experience of obtaining a Master? do you suggest leaving it till I actually get into the Inns or keep doing what im doing now?

Forget that guy/gal, you probably wouldn't enjoy devilling for him/her. Keep trying, but don't be afraid to ring several persons. The best way to source a master is to try to meet a barrister for coffee etc and they can give you the names of the people who practice in your chosen area. Then just ring all of them until you get one.

While choice of master is important, it is not so important that you chase one person for 3 weeks then move on to another for 3 more weeks. Rather than have a list of preferences and going through them one by one, get a pool of candidates and ring them all. They will probably ask to meet you before taking you on, so there will be plenty of time between the jigs and the reels to hear back from the master that you really want.

There is no massive benefit to waiting until you are in the inns - others are getting masterses when they are still in college, so why should you be left behind because you are a bit more patient?

Inmyownworld

I hadn't even thought of looking for a Master before the entrance exams! I was thinking of getting in first and then starting to look.
You're panicking me now saying people have them all lined up already!

johnnyskeleton

Inmyownworld wrote: »

I hadn't even thought of looking for a Master before the entrance exams! I was thinking of getting in first and then starting to look.
You're panicking me now saying people have them all lined up already!

Masters are like puppies in the pound. You know that you will get one no matter what, but the earlier movers get the cute ones with floppy ears while the people who wait get the one with the gammy eye. That's not to say that the one with the gammy eye isn't as good a puppy as the cute one (in fact, the latter might actually be a sounder dog while the cute one turns out to be a barky dog).

Also, occasionally the people who moved first and got the best puppies realise on going home that their kids are allergic to dog hair and have to drop them back, so sometimes the chronically late end up getting the pick of the litter by a bizzare twist of fortune.

legaleagle10

Hey thanks for the advice Johnny, its exactly what im looking for.. phew! feel much calmer about the whole thing - Il try a few others and see what the story is. I know there busy but jeez a text wouldnt go astray!:rolleyes:


and may I commend you on your analogy of the puppies/barristers LMAO hilarious..the one with the gangly eye would have a better personality hahaha:D genius

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Forget that guy/gal, you probably wouldn't enjoy devilling for him/her. Keep trying, but don't be afraid to ring several persons. The best way to source a master is to try to meet a barrister for coffee etc and they can give you the names of the people who practice in your chosen area. Then just ring all of them until you get one.

While choice of master is important, it is not so important that you chase one person for 3 weeks then move on to another for 3 more weeks. Rather than have a list of preferences and going through them one by one, get a pool of candidates and ring them all. They will probably ask to meet you before taking you on, so there will be plenty of time between the jigs and the reels to hear back from the master that you really want.

There is no massive benefit to waiting until you are in the inns - others are getting masterses when they are still in college, so why should you be left behind because you are a bit more patient?

legaleagle10

I was EXACTLY the same as you..until i started speaking to other Inns head and realised half of them had masters booked before the exams and some a year in advance! freaked me out!! hence why im on the hunt for one! I kinda agree with ye over getting one before the exams..the mortification of having to ring up the barrister if it all goes pete tong!:eek:

Sorry about panicking you, but I was in your shoes and people panicked me LOL...must be a knock on effect...like Johnny says you dont want the puppy with the gangly eye!

Inmyownworld wrote: »

I hadn't even thought of looking for a Master before the entrance exams! I was thinking of getting in first and then starting to look.
You're panicking me now saying people have them all lined up already!

johnnyskeleton

legaleagle10 wrote: »

like Johnny says you dont want the puppy with the gangly eye!

I'm not making any comment or not as to whether you would want it or not, merely that those puppies perceived to be the cutest mightn't turn out to be the best dogs.

legaleagle10

:Dhahaha..aw god, now i just feel sorry for it! I want the nice puppy! better get on the dog and bone (sorry I couldnt resist) and getting a Master godammit! no one wants the gangly eye puppy!

johhahnnyskeleton wrote: »

I'm not making any comment or not as to whether you would want it or not, merely that those puppies perceived to be the cutest mightn't turn out to be the best dogs.

Tom Young

Ruff Justice from JS. I thought he was barking there for a moment. Clearly not. Just meating it out to you.

johnnyskeleton

Tom Young wrote: »

Ruff Justice from JS. I thought he was barking there for a moment. Clearly not. Just meating it out to you.

My bark is worse than my bite.

newmug

Off topic, but can anyone tell me why, historically speaking, devils are call devils? Devilling. It sounds like the time when you've learned the law inside-out, and this is the "on the job" training of how to lie and twist and corrupt the law to your own ends, without actually breaking it, all the while covering your own ass and milking the client!

Tom Young

newmug wrote: »

Off topic, but can anyone tell me why, historically speaking, devils are call devils? Devilling. It sounds like the time when you've learned the law inside-out, and this is the "on the job" training of how to lie and twist and corrupt the law to your own ends, without actually breaking it, all the while covering your own ass and milking the client!

Well actually that is possibly quite the insulting post to many professionals who opt to frequent this particular legal discussion forum.

You're entitled to your own opinion but the answer to your rhetorical question or statement of opinion at the end is categorically no.

Here is a wikipedia definition: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devilling

johnnyskeleton

newmug wrote: »

Off topic, but can anyone tell me why, historically speaking, devils are call devils? Devilling. It sounds like the time when you've learned the law inside-out, and this is the "on the job" training of how to lie and twist and corrupt the law to your own ends, without actually breaking it, all the while covering your own ass and milking the client!

It comes from some French word or other. I think it comes from du valet or some other phrase which means to act as a valet or servant.

Barristers don't lie or milk their clients. If you are aware of this happening, you should complain to the bar council immediately.

newmug

Tom Young wrote: »

Well actually that is possibly quite the insulting post to many professionals who opt to frequent this particular legal discussion forum.

You're entitled to your own opinion but the answer to your rhetorical question or statement of opinion at the end is categorically no.

Here is a wikipedia definition: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devilling

Sorry Tom, didnt mean to insult you! I'm making the point that thats what the word devil brings to mind. You know, a devil, an evil being! Thats why I was asking where did the term come from? I'm not suggesting for a moment that thats my opinion, just that thats what it sounds like!

legaleagle10

well....yes thats it really... Joking of course! ...Im not sure why they call it devilling (maybe the "devils" advocate??) but its also called Pupillage.

newmug wrote: »

Off topic, but can anyone tell me why, historically speaking, devils are call devils? Devilling. It sounds like the time when you've learned the law inside-out, and this is the "on the job" training of how to lie and twist and corrupt the law to your own ends, without actually breaking it, all the while covering your own ass and milking the client!

legaleagle10

Lol..just got that there!hahaha..its still early!..I fell ruff this morning...okay enough! thats the last one its out of my sytem now..apologies

Tom Young wrote: »

Ruff Justice from JS. I thought he was barking there for a moment. Clearly not. Just meating it out to you.

legaleagle10

Hey guys, I noticed when looking up the Barristers for a Masters (not going well I might add) that some of them have a loooooong list of things they work in such as Tort and PI, Commercial, Labour Law, Family etc then you have other Barristers that just have "General Practice" can anyone clarify this, im guessing it means they do all areas of the law as opposed to specialising in one particular area?? why dont they put what they practice in? wonder if its just an admin. thing?

thanks

johnnyskeleton

legaleagle10 wrote: »

Hey guys, I noticed when looking up the Barristers for a Masters (not going well I might add) that some of them have a loooooong list of things they work in such as Tort and PI, Commercial, Labour Law, Family etc then you have other Barristers that just have "General Practice" can anyone clarify this, im guessing it means they do all areas of the law as opposed to specialising in one particular area?? why dont they put what they practice in? wonder if its just an admin. thing?

thanks

The website listings of practice areas, circuits and specialisations is misleading at best. Many of the people who specify a certain area are stating that they want to specialise in those areas, meanwhile people who have big practices in that area don't really need to advertise it.

General Practice usually means a bit of PI, a bit of contracts, a bit of licencing, the odd drunk driving and the occasional bit of opiniony stuff. It's sort of like saying that they practice the type of law that the average citizen requires from time to time.

legaleagle10

Hi, I didnt realise that? That widens my scope of people to call actually. I thought when nothing was listed it was better to go for someone who had a long list of what they practice. Thanks for that

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

The website listings of practice areas, circuits and specialisations is misleading at best. Many of the people who specify a certain area are stating that they want to specialise in those areas, meanwhile people who have big practices in that area don't really need to advertise it.

General Practice usually means a bit of PI, a bit of contracts, a bit of licencing, the odd drunk driving and the occasional bit of opiniony stuff. It's sort of like saying that they practice the type of law that the average citizen requires from time to time.

FreudianSlippers

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

The website listings of practice areas, circuits and specialisations is misleading at best. Many of the people who specify a certain area are stating that they want to specialise in those areas, meanwhile people who have big practices in that area don't really need to advertise it.

General Practice usually means a bit of PI, a bit of contracts, a bit of licencing, the odd drunk driving and the occasional bit of opiniony stuff. It's sort of like saying that they practice the type of law that the average citizen requires from time to time.

+1

I just updated mine in the hopes it would bring in some more work, but it's unlikely :P

I think most people 5+ years call who have work aren't bothered by their Bar Council profile and those that don't have bigger fish to fry.
Not to mention that you have to email to amend the profile and if you want to list specific practice specialisations they require you to fill out a form and sign & return it.