co2 me hole

good logs...

global warming is it co2 ????? or was it all the big bombs they tested under the sea and in the desert ???????

King Mob

good logs... wrote: »

global warming is it co2 ????? or was it all the big bombs they tested under the sea and in the desert ???????

Why would CO2 not cause global warming?

Why would bombs cause it?

good logs...

Im talking about atomic bombs that they started to test from the 1950s right up today......

mickdw

Its all crap, we have natural cycles which result in temperature change but people are using this to tax the little people.

Im just glad we had all those Porsches to help us out of the ice age.

Mahatma coat

King Mob wrote: »

Why would CO2 not cause global warming?

Why would CO2 Cause Global Warming????

Why would bombs cause it?

Why Would Bombs Not Cause it

Swampy

I like the pun in the thread title.

King Mob

good logs... wrote: »

Im talking about atomic bombs that they started to test from the 1950s right up today......

Yes I figured as much. But by what mechanism would they cause global warming?
And why do you believe CO2 cannot?

Mahatma coat wrote: »

Why would CO2 Cause Global Warming????

Why Would Bombs Not Cause it

Several reasons. However I'm just asking how the OP came to these conclusions.

Mahatma coat

Heres an interestin Concept

How about you tell us How YOU came to the conclusion that it is?

squod

good logs... wrote: »

global warming is it co2 ????? or was it all the big bombs they tested under the sea and in the desert ???????

How about a tax on nuclear explosions, back dated to 1950. Let's say $1,000,000/megaton, then lets add some compound interest........

namelessguy

Mahatma coat wrote: »

Heres an interestin Concept

How about you tell us How YOU came to the conclusion that it is?

Shouldn't the OP offer any explanation or reason to back up his conclusions? As opposed to demanding others to prove him/her/them wrong?

In debates, appeals to ignorance are sometimes used to shift the burden of proof.

argumentum ad ignorantiam

King Mob

Mahatma coat wrote: »

Heres an interestin Concept

How about you tell us How YOU came to the conclusion that it is?

So I take it that asking very simple questions here is some sort of crime?

The reason I came to the conclusion that CO2 can be responsible for global warming is because of a very simple scientific concept, shown by fellow Carlow man John Tyndall. He was the first to show that the greenhouse effect actually existed and the CO2 specifically was very good at absorbing heat in the form of infra-red radiation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Tyndall

Here's a very good demonstration of the effect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGaV3PiobYk

Also it's hard for even the most ignorant of antiscience crank to seriously pretend that we haven't been pumping a lot more of the gas into the air.

So putting two and two together, I reach the conclusion that CO2 can cause climate change.
Of course the real story in much more complex.

As for the reason why I don't think nuclear testing is responsible is because I fail to see a plausible mechanism as to why it could.
Which is why I asked.

espinolman

Nuclear fallout is in the ice cores and it melts from the inside out , melting the ice caps .

King Mob

espinolman wrote: »

Nuclear fallout is in the ice cores and it melts from the inside out , melting the ice caps .

So how would this cause the rise in tempurature?
How does the fallout get into the ice cores and not just land on the surface?
How does the fallout only go to the poles?

Mahatma coat

in fairness there were a LOT of Nuclear tests in the 50's they released Massive amounts of energy into the atmosphere, we dont know what that has done to the Atmosphere.

CO2 is a natural output from most Animal lifeforms on the planet, Plants need it to survive, yet all of a sudden over the last decades it has become this big bogeyman responsible for everything bad thats happening, I think shennanigans.

Mahatma coat

it makes sense that the radiation would acumulate at the Poles, thats where the Ozone depleters collected.

BTW, who here remembers the O-zone Hole??

King Mob

Mahatma coat wrote: »

in fairness there were a LOT of Nuclear tests in the 50's they released Massive amounts of energy into the atmosphere, we dont know what that has done to the Atmosphere.

What kind of energy are you taking about exactly?
Heat? Light? Sound?

How would any form of energy released cause lasting global effects in the atmosphere?

Mahatma coat wrote: »

CO2 is a natural output from most Animal lifeforms on the planet, Plants need it to survive, yet all of a sudden over the last decades it has become this big bogeyman responsible for everything bad thats happening, I think shennanigans.

It's a natural part of the planet alright.
But in case you haven't been noticing, we've been putting a lot of carbon into the atmosphere that had been previously been stored in the crust.
And on top of that we are destroying large parts of the forests that normally absorb a lot of the Co2 in the atmosphere.

Mahatma coat wrote: »

it makes sense that the radiation would acumulate at the Poles, thats where the Ozone depleters collected.

Except that 1) fallout isn't radiation 2) fallout is entirely different to CFCs.
So no, it doesn't make sense.

Mahatma coat wrote: »

BTW, who here remembers the O-zone Hole??

I do. I also remember that it was largely a different issue to climate change and the green house effect.

bonkey

Mahatma coat wrote: »

in fairness there were a LOT of Nuclear tests in the 50's they released Massive amounts of energy into the atmosphere, we dont know what that has done to the Atmosphere

They didn't release that much energy, no matter what way you look at it.

A megaton is a unit of energy, which wikipedia (yes, yes, I know) puts at just over 4 petajoules. (thats a 4 with 15 0s after it).

In 2008 alone, world consumption of energy was (again, wikipedia, I know) 474 exajoules. Rounding down, thats a 4 with 20 0s after it. Thats one year. Even if output increased by a factor of 10 over the 50-60 years we're talking about, the "noughties" alone will amount to (roughly) 100,000 megaton equivalent. The largest bomb (at least that we know of) ever tested was Tsar Bomba, which clocked in at 50MT. There was exactly one of those tested, but just to match the energy output from the noughties, we'd need 2000 such bombs over the 10 years, or roughly one every 2 days.

10,000MT a year is over 25MT a day, every day. Even when output was 10 times lower, thats still 2.5MT a day, every day.

See where this is going? Its very clear that if one believes that nuclear testing released sufficient energy into the atmosphere over decades to cause climate shift, global warming or whatever else you might want to call it....then it is inescapably true that world energy generation also released sufficient energy, and that's only considering the energy, and ignoring the pollutant effects.

CO2 is a natural output from most Animal lifeforms on the planet, Plants need it to survive, yet all of a sudden over the last decades it has become this big bogeyman responsible for everything bad thats happening, I think shennanigans.

And yet, if you were locked into a sealed room, and the concentration of CO2 massively increased, the fact that its a natural output thats necessary for life wouldn't stop it killing you.

Picking the benign aspects of something and ignoring the rest, so as to cast it in a favourable light....that is shennanigans.

No-one has ever argued that CO2 isn't a major part of the natural world, nor a major part of the carbon cycle to which life is tied. That doesn't mean it can't cause global warming.

bonkey

Mahatma coat wrote: »

BTW, who here remembers the O-zone Hole??

Remember it? Its still there.

good logs...

look its like this ,the yanks at the moment are fighting two wars they have no time to be testing bombs ,hence dose no one notice we are geting back the cold winters of years past.........:D

King Mob

good logs... wrote: »

look its like this ,the yanks at the moment are fighting two wars they have no time to be testing bombs ,hence dose no one notice we are geting back the cold winters of years past.........:D

But the last few years have been some of the warmest on record, particularly around the poles.
Local weather does not equal global climate.

Also there hasn't been any nuclear tests in America since 92.
What exactly leads you to the conclusion that there has been more?

And again:
By what mechanism would they cause global warming?
And why do you believe CO2 cannot?

good logs...

King Mob wrote: »

But the last few years have been some of the warmest on record, particularly around the poles.
Local weather does not equal global climate.

Also there hasn't been any nuclear tests in America since 92.
What exactly leads you to the conclusion that there has been more?

And again:
By what mechanism would they cause global warming?
And why do you believe CO2 cannot?

do u live in or around the poles ??????? or do you believe everything you google....................

King Mob

good logs... wrote: »

do u live in or around the poles ??????? or do you believe everything you google....................

No. I just keep up to date with science and understand the difference between weather and climate.

How do you know that they are faking the temperature data?

And what about the questions you don't seem to want to answer.

What reason do you have to believe nuclear testing went on in the states past 92?
By what mechanism would they cause global warming?
And why do you believe CO2 cannot?

RGDATA!

Mahatma coat wrote: »

Heres an interestin Concept

How about you tell us How YOU came to the conclusion that it is?

here's another interesting concept. since OP thought it important enough to start a thread on the matter, maybe the onus is on him to elabourate on his opinion

good logs...

king mob this is for you i started this post for bit of a craic as for my mechanism its called a doll a drum a kick in the bum and a chase around the table :P:P:D:D as i have looked back through some for posts i have never come across such a ??????? i dont know what ....any way all the best and try and shake of the bad feels you harbour with in your self....:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

King Mob

good logs... wrote: »

king mob this is for you i started this post for bit of a craic as for my mechanism its called a doll a drum a kick in the bum and a chase around the table :P:P:D:D as i have looked back through some for posts i have never come across such a ??????? i dont know what ....any way all the best and try and shake of the bad feels you harbour with in your self....:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Oh well. My own fault for asking questions I suppose.

but don't worry I assure you I harbour no bad feels.

Mahatma coat

bonkey wrote: »

Remember it? Its still there.

OK, Remember that it was the Worst catastrophe to befall Humanity in our entire existence, until the pool of Research Grants dried up, now CO2 is the big bad Bogeyman, until someone comes up with something else to Scare money out of imbecilic government bodies.

as you Pointed out the O-zone hole is Still there, but it dosent command the Scare Capital of yesteryear :rolleyes:

Yitzhak Rabin

Mahatma coat wrote: »

OK, Remember that it was the Worst catastrophe to befall Humanity in our entire existence, until the pool of Research Grants dried up, now CO2 is the big bad Bogeyman, until someone comes up with something else to Scare money out of imbecilic government bodies.

as you Pointed out the O-zone hole is Still there, but it dosent command the Scare Capital of yesteryear :rolleyes:

Well, research led to understanding the problem. The release of CFCs and other ozone depleting gases by humans caused it. Then with that knowledge, we were able to ban CFCs. Now the size of the hole has been diminished, and is expected to repair in the long term.

So the system works...

bonkey

Mahatma coat wrote: »

OK, Remember that it was the Worst catastrophe to befall Humanity in our entire existence, until the pool of Research Grants dried up, now CO2 is the big bad Bogeyman, until someone comes up with something else to Scare money out of imbecilic government bodies.

as you Pointed out the O-zone hole is Still there, but it dosent command the Scare Capital of yesteryear :rolleyes:

Umm, no.

It was billed as a catastrophe in the making, which would become massively worse if we didn't take immediate and significant action to cut CFC emissions. We were told that even if we did cut them, it would take years to stop getting worse, and decades to recover.

We then went and took the significant actions proposed.

Since then, there's nothing much we can do. Monitoring continues, and report that although the behaviour is somewhat slower then predicted, we appear to have reached the point where things are no longer getting worse, and are slowly getting better.

So its not that research dried up....its that we did what was recommended, its having the predicted effect, so there's no longer any real story there for the news.

What do you expect? Regular news articles reporting "oyone layer behaving as predicted. No further action needed" ???

If China or someone started massive use of CFCs, then we could expect
the story to resurface...given that there'd be a new threat, and new action required.

King Mob

Mahatma coat wrote: »

OK, Remember that it was the Worst catastrophe to befall Humanity in our entire existence, until the pool of Research Grants dried up, now CO2 is the big bad Bogeyman, until someone comes up with something else to Scare money out of imbecilic government bodies.

as you Pointed out the O-zone hole is Still there, but it dosent command the Scare Capital of yesteryear :rolleyes:

Because you seem to be confusing media hype with actual science.
Ozone depletion is still a major concern, and CO2 has always been a concern.

Also isn't stating that there's a vast global conspiracy kinda the exact same boogeymaning you're accusing others of?

Atlantic Dawn

It's not called global warming any more due to the fact that the UK and Ireland have actually for a fact got much colder in the past 10 years, instead this gimic is being now labelled as "climate change" as they can't decide on whether it's better to tell us it's getting warmer or colder to make us fear something which is a natural cycle.

King Mob

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

It's not called global warming any more due to the fact that the UK and Ireland have actually for a fact got much colder in the past 10 years, instead this gimic is being now labelled as "climate change" as they can't decide on whether it's better to tell us it's getting warmer or colder to make us fear something which is a natural cycle.

1) It's always been properly called climate change, "Global Warming" is the colloquial name for it in the media.
2) Both Ireland and the UK have had a lot of record breaking hot summers in the last decade.
The global temperature has been rising, it's a fact not even the deniers are trying to ignore.