3 New Navy Vessels for Irish Naval Service

Grassy Knoll

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121123274#Comment_121123274

We will see where the 2024 Defence budget ends up. However, IMHO the Department/ top brass face a few problems. Firstly the numbers continue to fall- there are less service men / women to pay (the bulk of the budget) … to be honest stabilising the establishment numbers will be even a short term achievement in itself. Based on this no one could justify CAPEX at this point on the likes of a MRV when we can’t even crew what ships we have. Furthermore, given internationally where defence spending is going we will doing well to get in on an order book - maybe there is an EU procurement angle we can piggyback off of - joint purchase, but dunno if we have major equipment investment plans where we could coalesce? I suppose domestic construction inflation will remain strong and soak up more capital spend where bases etc are being refurbished etc.

Most recently the total defence budget at end Aug was about 6.5 per cent underspent vs profile with current about 5% below expectations. That won’t be closed over the remainder of the year, but importantly it sets a baseline for next year. Maybe they could on paper get a 2024 budget increase but in the full expectation that a few percent of the budget be handed back anyways…

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121132285#Comment_121132285

I know we will have some say you cant do this but any surpuls at the end of the year should be forward spent on Base infastructure, Ammo or down paymemts on Future equipment such as ships,Aircraft, Apcs or even Trucks and jeeps as some of our local councils do

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121132630#Comment_121132630

Its not a matter of 'some say' its a matter of budgetary spending rules under national and EU procedures and also procurement requirements.

Budgets can be capitalised and redistributed, but only under strict conditions and high level permission.

So it can't in any way be done as you suggest.

Larbre34

Its not an accounting failure, its a management failure (sub/project management failure)

Mind you, thats endemic across the civil service.

jonnybigwallet

I see the NS are observers in this initiative.....possible replacement for Roisin class some years down the line?

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2023/10/launching-of-the-first-phase-of-the-european-patrol-corvette-project/

Larbre34

No.

In terms of outline design, they are already envisaged to be 33% heavier and 23% longer than our existing P60 class.

In terms of the proposed two (initial) variants, Combat and Ocean Going Patrol, they will boast state-of-the-art semi-autonomous combat management and fire control systems with SAMs, SSMs, anti-Submarine and counter-Submarine technology; comfortably out-gunning anything we currently have.

However, while they may not replace anything we have like-for-like, they would be perfect for a broadening Navy like Ireland's, serving as multi-purpose slimmed down frigates, in the general maritime security role and projecting our naval envelope out to the far reaches of our EEZ and beyond, to things like maritime peace protection and anti-piracy, which we have already dipped our toe into.

Thankfully the lessons of the FREMM frigate cooperative design already exist to inform the EPC and hopefully deliver it quickly and effectively.

Tippman24

Warship Magazine has 2 Articals in its latest issue concerning the current state of the Irish Navy. Whilst it does slate the Government on the matter it also state that there is no huge will in the country regarding the fact that our Navy is basically banjaxed

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121346576#Comment_121346576

It also doesn’t have much idea about what powers and capabilities the EU has in relation to defence which is limited at best.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121371280#Comment_121371280

But only in the new year, suppose at the rate we are going by then it won’t actually cost anything extra as there won’t be much patrols.

roadmaster

New MRV sourced

https://www.rte.ie/news/munster/2023/1120/1417505-mv-matthew/

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121392572#Comment_121392572

Eh I am being sarcastic but don't worry the level of clowns we have elected in this country there is good chance it will be suggested.

Larbre34

Make a sweet target all the same. Drain her fluids and contaminants and take her off the continental shelf, then let the engineers, the ARW demolitions boys, the Air Corps and the Navy have a jamboree on her until she sinks in deep water. Ready made reef!

jonnybigwallet

https://navyrecognition.com/index.php/naval-news/naval-news-archive/2023/november/13818-portugal-navy-aims-to-enter-big-league-by-unveiling-drone-carrier-ship.html

Larbre34

Just been listening to an Australian media piece about the future of the AUKUS agreement and the acquisition by the RAN of 3, and ultimately 5 Virginia-Class Nuclear Powered Attack Submarines.

The cost, even over 18 years...

€225,500,000,000, at today's prices.

To be clear, that IS the Euro figure (AUS$ 368 Billion)

What we are dealing with in this Country, is chicken feed. Even if we went to LoA3 tomorrow, we wouldn't spend €60 Billion in 20+ years, at today's prices, and thats on EVERYTHING!

roadmaster

It's behind a paywall but in the times the are reporting one of the most important Irish Ships built is heading for the scrap yard by by Eithne

Mav11

From the IT:

"The former flagship of the Naval Service is, along with two other vessels, to be sent abroad and taken apart for scrap after plans to convert it into a museum came to nothing.

LÉ Eithne, which was the Naval Service’s largest vessel and the last to be constructed in Ireland, was decommissioned last year at the same time as the smaller LÉ Ciara and LÉ Orla. The vessels were decommissioned partly due to their age and partly due to the manpower crisis impacting the service which has left it without enough sailors to crew all its ships. Two other vessels have since been tied up, leaving just two ships available for duty at any one time, with one more in reserve.

There has been much speculation about the fate of the ships. Cork County Council had expressed an interest in acquiring the Eithne and converting it into a floating maritime museum in Cork Harbour. Dublin Port later approached the Department of Defence about using the ship for a similar purpose in the capital.

It is understood that the Philippine naval service expressed a tentative interest in at least one of the ships, but these inquiries went nowhere.

A Department of Defence spokeswoman said “a number of organisations” had expressed interest in acquiring the Eithne as a museum piece or tourist attraction “but following, in some cases lengthy, discussions all these parties withdrew their interest in taking the ship”.

She said Minister for Defence Micheál Martin has decided the three ships “should be disposed of by recycling in an environmentally-sound manner”. A competitive tendering process is now under way for a ship-breakers yard to remove the vessels from Cork Harbour and recycle them “in line with the EU Ship Recycling Regulation and relevant national regulations”.

The ships recently underwent an inspection by interested shipyards and the department hopes to offload all three in the coming weeks, it said. The department has made around €130,000 available for the project.

The three ships have a combined service of more than a century. The Eithne was built in 1984 at the Verolme Dockyard in Cork Harbour, which went out of business shortly afterwards. In 1986 it became the first Irish Naval ship to cross the Atlantic. In 2006 it was the first Naval Service ship to visit South America. It was the first Irish ship to be deployed on Operation Pontus in 2015 in the Mediterranean Sea, where it helped save the lives of thousands of refugees before being deployed to Cork city in 2020 to assist the HSE during Covid-19.

The LÉ Orla and Ciara were commissioned in 1989 having been purchased a year earlier from the British royal navy with whom they saw service as patrol vessels HMS Swift and HMS Swallow in the waters off Hong Kong.

Two smaller inshore patrol vessels have been acquired from New Zealand to patrol the Irish Sea and are due to go into service next year, although there are concerns there will not be enough sailors to crew them.

The Government is also in the process of commissioning a much larger multi-role vessel to replace the Eithne as the Naval Service’s flagship in the coming years."

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121450586#Comment_121450586

Not sure the relevancy tbh, you want to look at comparisons stick with nations of similar size to us (ie Finland or Denmark or New Zealand) and their defence projects. I mean god knows even for those we are still doing feck all and there is plenty we could actually learn from them, but throwing in what a major G20 nation is doing/planning is not relevant.

Though I will say, that I'd put money that this Sub procurement will make their Collins saga look like the pinnacle of procurement before its over. It's going to be way late, over budget, mess with the USN/RN procurement and likely end up needing either a rebuild of the Collins or an interim sub buy.

roadmaster

I wonder what scared the Philippines navy off?

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121452291#Comment_121452291

There is a good comedy video on YouTube about Australian defence and china

jonnybigwallet

I bet the Ukraine Navy would have them!

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121454003#Comment_121454003

No they wouldn’t, they value their lives too much to put them into combat even if they could get them into the Black Sea.

jonnybigwallet

This is the ship we need to make a decent fist of safeguarding the important substance assets on the western coast...never mind buying a glorified car ferry that's only going to get occasional use. This ship would give the NS some decent firepower.

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2023/12/egypt-launches-4th-and-final-meko-a200-frigate-sajm-al-jabbar/

jonnybigwallet

Sub sea not substance...damned predictive text.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121459256#Comment_121459256

Doesn't make you any more right.

Thankfully, our Naval brass' previous trip to New Zealand has shown that the "glorified car ferry" that it HMNZS Canterbury is absolutely the wrong way to do things, and killed any chance of such a folly.

The MRV will resemble one of these design layouts, for sure.

In fact I can't think of a more suitable candidate that the VARD Type 7 313

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121463331#Comment_121463331

If it happens at this point I would agree with you, whether or not it happens is the question.

Larbre34

You heard something about the VARD did ya?

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121465390#Comment_121465390

Would a ship like that fit in to former loading positions of the ferry port in Dun Laoghaire

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121465612#Comment_121465612

Why would it need to?

Tabnabs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121465612#Comment_121465612

Yes, if the old linkspan was still in operation (which it isn't). Ro-Ro ships are similar in design and operation, no matter what colour you paint them.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121465612#Comment_121465612

Thats an odd question?

The HSS ferry had bespoke moorings and elevated gangways built onto the extended marshalling yard in DL Harbour. The Yard remains, but all that infrastructure was dismantled years ago now and nothing has docked at that position since the HSS finished its last summer service, probably a decade ago.

Its one of the Lake-Class boats that has been talked about for stationing at Dun Laoghaire, not the eventual MRV, which would more than likely do its routine Ro-Ro loading at a Port of Cork facility.