Double Standards

A Very Pointy Stick

I'm sorry but it's not double standards because men don't have thousands of years of history of being oppressed by women which of course is the case the other way around. Men making comments like that is unfair because it tries to undo all the work that women have done to win their equality over that time. Women on these silly TV programs (and shame on you for watching them anyway) do not mean any harm. It's not the same thing as there is generally intent in a man's sexist slander.

SugarHigh

A Very Pointy Stick wrote: »

I'm sorry but it's not double standards because men don't have thousands of years of history of being oppressed by women which of course is the case the other way around. Men making comments like that is unfair because it tries to undo all the work that women have done to win their equality over that time. Women on these silly TV programs (and shame on you for watching them anyway) do not mean any harm. It's not the same thing as there is generally intent in a man's sexist slander.

If you're meeting thousand year old women then I think you're hanging out in the wrong nightclubs.:D

iptba

A Very Pointy Stick wrote: »

I'm sorry but it's not double standards because men don't have thousands of years of history of being oppressed by women which of course is the case the other way around.

History can be viewed in many ways. Who was the gender who was conscripted to fight and which gender generally didn't have to? Who was the gender who has tended to do the more dangerous jobs? (Continuing this discussion might bring the topic off-topic but I didn't start it).

Galvasean

A Very Pointy Stick wrote: »

I'm sorry but it's not double standards because men don't have thousands of years of history of being oppressed by women which of course is the case the other way around. Men making comments like that is unfair because it tries to undo all the work that women have done to win their equality over that time.

You want equality? Then how about treat men and women equally in such situations.
Just because women had it rough in years gone by does not mean they should get special privileges today. That's not equality.

A Very Pointy Stick

But we're not in a situation of equality yet - we're still fighting to get there. So for the moment concessions to protect women's rights are necessary, however annoying they might be to some men.

SugarHigh

A Very Pointy Stick wrote: »

But we're not in a situation of equality yet - we're still fighting to get there. So for the moment concessions to protect women's rights are necessary, however annoying they might be to some men.

lol you're kidding yourself. I think you just want to to believe women are victims.

Maguined

A Very Pointy Stick wrote: »

It's not the same thing as there is generally intent in a man's sexist slander.

Gotcha when men say sexist things it is wrong and evil, when women say sexist things its because its only light hearted humour. So it is not what is said, but who say's it that determines whether something is offensive or not, yet you want equality but don't practice it yourself?

A Very Pointy Stick

But it fundementally comes down to someone's position in society. When a woman makes a sexist joke about a man it doesn't have the same effect because even today women are not entirely equal in every respect. When a man makes a joke (like the recent Sky Sports debacle) then it has much more weight because soccer is a male-dominated sport with some horrible sexism still rampant. My boyfriend has seen a good few Arsenal FC matches in the terraces and some of the things the men come out with are incredibly offensive. And the worst part is, he says, you get the impression they genuinly mean it. I've never been in a situation with women where one has said something offensive about men and actually meant it.

source

No it doesn't, what you're advocating is turning the tables completely because of past transgressions on your sex. Saying that it's okay for women to make sexist remarks about men because men were sexist in the past, Is like saying black people can make racist comments about white people because of what happened in the past.

True equality does not include revenge for the past. True equality means that you are the same as me and we act the same towards each other. Giving each other the respect we would give our own sex.

Zulu

Surely it's not feeding time?

Reward

If the same standards were applied to the female media it would shrink dramatically.

The view, Ophra, Loose women - the biggest female shows have a strong theme of misandry and no shortage of misandrists to applaud and agree.

Cultural marxism / politically correct feminism has saturated our culture with anti male bigotry to the extent that most people don't even see it, all groups are protected, bar heterosexual men.

Reward

Dudess wrote: »

I hate the implication that just because anti-male crap is so prevalent, women are ok with it.

If women aren't ok with it, why is the female media saturated with anti male sentiment, why is misandry used as the hook to sell women so many products, why does misandry go unchecked in the ladies area of this site?

I think that you don't realise that misandry is an unconscuous thing for many, many women don't know that they are misandrists because misandry is normal in the culture, feminists dont realise or deny that their movement promotes misandry, many men don't notice it because thats just the way it is.

Bottle_of_Smoke

A Very Pointy Stick wrote: »

But we're not in a situation of equality yet - we're still fighting to get there. So for the moment concessions to protect women's rights are necessary, however annoying they might be to some men.

You're right in that we are not at quality. We've now gone past equality for women because they now have more rights than men.

parker kent

I think the last few posts have featured both genders playing the victim card and comparing the worst actions of each gender with what everybody says/does. The reality is somewhere in between. Yes there are sexist men and women. Yes some men and some women get preferential treatment in different spheres. Yes some people play the victim card too easily and need to be less easily offended. On the flip side, some people need to stop being offensive. Just because some people are easily offended is not necessarily a defense to ignorant behaviour.

Building trenches and launching a gender war won't solve anything. We all need to identify the actions of moronic, ignorant people and try not to act like that.

Otis Driftwood

Reward wrote: »

If women aren't ok with it, why is the female media saturated with anti male sentiment, why is misandry used as the hook to sell women so many products, why does misandry go unchecked in the ladies area of this site?

I think that you don't realise that misandry is an unconscuous thing for many, many women don't know that they are misandrists because misandry is normal in the culture, feminists dont realise or deny that their movement promotes misandry, many men don't notice it because thats just the way it is.

Reward,you have been warned about this before.Discussion or criticism of moderation on any other forum on boards is not permitted in tGC or any other forum for that matter.I suggest that if you have a problem with it you either start a help desk thread or report the posts you feel are inappropriate.You are just back from a little sojourn from tGC,bans are on an incremental scale across boards so please bear that in mind.

A Very Pointy Stick.You are a new member to boards so I will take this time to direct you to our charter here.Female opinions are of course welcome here however your posts contain alot of generalisations about men,being female you really cant say what we think or what our opinions are.Please do bear this in mind before posting.Thanks.

donfers

A Very Pointy Stick wrote: »

I've never been in a situation with women where one has said something offensive about men and actually meant it.

looks like we have a mindreader in our midst ladies and gentlemen

what did I have for breakfast?

Dudess

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

You're right in that we are not at quality. We've now gone past equality for women because they now have more rights than men.

Such as? More parental rights, yes - and I think it's a sh1te system - but what else?

Galvasean

A Very Pointy Stick wrote: »

. My boyfriend has seen a good few Arsenal FC matches in the terraces and some of the things the men come out with are incredibly offensive. And the worst part is, he says, you get the impression they genuinly mean it.

As someone who has been to see several Arsenal matches (and intend to see many more in the future) I would like to know what offensive things you speak of? Do you mean things which would be offensive to women or something else? Either way I would ask you to advise your boyfriend to report any such offensive behavior to a member of staff (stewards, security etc.). Arsenal FC are known for taking hefty action against any fans who are disruptive in this manner. The waiting list for season tickets is over a year long. Trouble makers will not be missed.
As a side note: Arsenal have one of the best and most progressive women's teams in the world. So if the offensive material you speak of is of the sexist variety he club will do their utmost to see it done away with.

iptba

Dudess wrote: »

Such as? More parental rights, yes - and I think it's a sh1te system - but what else?

Here are a few issues if anyone is interested: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masculism Discussing too many of them would probably be off-topic except as general headings perhaps.

donfers

Galvasean wrote: »

As someone who has been to see several Arsenal matches (and intend to see many more in the future) I would like to know what offensive things you speak of? Do you mean things which would be offensive to women or something else? Either way I would ask you to advise your boyfriend to report any such offensive behavior to a member of staff (stewards, security etc.). Arsenal FC are known for taking hefty action against any fans who are disruptive in this manner. The waiting list for season tickets is over a year long. Trouble makers will not be missed.
As a side note: Arsenal have one of the best and most progressive women's teams in the world. So if the offensive material you speak of is of the sexist variety he club will do their utmost to see it done away with.

well all football clubs aspire to having a civilised fanbase but the reality is part of the appeal for fans is venting your frustrations at various parties, it's almost an artform at this stage

None of us would come out with the stuff that people say at the matchs on the street

so expect to hear stuff ranging from "you fat/bald/ugly/paddy/black/jock/spic/ginger/yid insert word here" and a lot more than that depending on what the topical stories in the papers are

fans ask david beckham if he has anal sex with his wife

man united fans sing about liverpool fans dying in a stadium crush

liverpool fans sing about the munich air disaster

fans sing about arsene wenger being a paedophile and so much more

don't even get me started on the celtic/rangers stuff


maybe part of women being accepted into the game and truly being treated equally is getting used to being slagged off and being strong enough to deal with it without causing a national crisis

Otis Driftwood

Any Premiership game Ive been to (admitadly not all that many) or Ireland internationals Ive never heard any gender stuff.As Donfers says above,pretty much anything else is fair game but nothing sexist is ever uttered(at least in my experience anyway).Women at matchs are treated with the same respect as men and are considered to be a footy fan and nothing else.

Dudess

I do agree women have the ability to say "fuck off" or better still, laugh back, rather than running to teacher...

Pherekydes

Otis Driftwood wrote: »

Women at matchs are treated with the same respect as men and are considered to be a footy fan and nothing else.

Indeed. We would expect no less.

But what if the ref was female? And what if she made a blunder?

Would there be cries of "Stupid blind ref, should've gone to specsavers" or "WTF is a woman doing reffing a premiership match?"

Reward

parker kent wrote: »

I think the last few posts have featured both genders playing the victim card and comparing the worst actions of each gender with what everybody says/does. The reality is somewhere in between. Yes there are sexist men and women. Yes some men and some women get preferential treatment in different spheres. Yes some people play the victim card too easily and need to be less easily offended. On the flip side, some people need to stop being offensive. Just because some people are easily offended is not necessarily a defense to ignorant behaviour.

Building trenches and launching a gender war won't solve anything. We all need to identify the actions of moronic, ignorant people and try not to act like that.

Parker Kent

What we are talking about is Marxist Class warfare applied to gender and waged through culture that was launched against men decades ago and continues today. Men are only just and finally figuring it out and responding to it. Talking openly about it is not ignorant or moronic, bigotry should be challenged, women are not sacred cows and should be held accountable just like everyone else, despite cultural marxism/political correctness.

parker kent

Reward wrote: »

Parker Kent

What we are talking about is Marxist Class warfare applied to gender and waged through culture that was launched decades ago and continues today. Men are just and finally figuring it out and responding to it.

No you are talking rubbish.

Reward

parker kent wrote: »

No you are talking rubbish.

Ok, clearly I have a better understanding of this than you do, and I don't mean that in a condescending way. The man bad woman good mantra that permeates the culture has been socially constructed. There is no point in attacking me and calling me ignorant because you have an information gap.

parker kent

Reward wrote: »

Ok, clearly I have a better understanding of this than you do, and I don't mean that in a condescending way. The man bad woman good mantra that permeates the culture has been socially constructed. There is no point in attacking me and calling me ignorant because you have an information gap.

No I am not engaging in this debate with you because you will not consider any opinion that is not yours. You have an agenda that is extremely obvious in all your posts.

Your attempts to belittle my (and other posters) intelligence/knowledge are a sign of the weaknesses in your argument style. I think my posts on here show that I do not have an information gap. I am just not prepared to talk in the absolutes and generalizations that you prefer.

Reward

DarkJager wrote: »

I know this is a topic visited many times here, but todays sacking of Andy Gray for comments he made has got my blood boiling again.

His comments (which by the way weren't even broadcast on air) have resulted in him losing his job. However, just watching TV this afternoon, I have seen 2 different "womens" chat shows making derogatory comments about men. This was on air, not some recorded conversation leaked afterwards. I just can't understand this and to me it shows what a complete and utter farce this anti-sexism **** is.

The TV shows were debating about current issues. One of them managed to turn a topic which had nothing to do with genders into a 5 minute male bashing fest, with the cretinous hosts bawking at their own jokes about male stupidity. The other, decided to rip on males about "fashion choices" - something I'm sure none of us really give a **** about because we aren't as vain or clothes obsessed as the opposite sex.

However, it got me thinking how pointless the sacking of Andy Gray actually is. Why was it done? To appease female viewers of Sky Sports? (which I'd be interested to know what majority they make up of its viewership). Already countless forums are being filled with pissed off sky subscription customers saying they will cancel because of this. Meanwhile, these ****ing self obsessed idiots are making a joke out of our gender for entertainment on afternoon tv shows.

When do we say enough is enough? When do we start lodging complaints about dopey bints making snide remarks ON AIR, about our gender and then having a great old guffaw about it? It makes me worry that we, as men, are simply satisified to sit back and watch and allow this to happen, while someone like Andy Gray gets fired from his job over comments he didn't even make while the programme was being broadcast. We can't even have a ****ing advert for Hunky Dorys with female models because its sexist, yet we are treated to the sexist **** that is the RSA "He Drives, She Dies" advert year after year and are supposed to ****ing take it all in our stride?

Are we ever to going to find the balls to call a halt to this sexist nonsense, or does society see us as having to be acceptant of taking this on the chin and going on with life? Are we now supposed to suffer humilation as a gender now because people who aren't even breathing anymore, gave women a hard time before we were even born? I find myself getting more and more infuriated with these double standards we allow to happen. I am sick to my teeth of watching this absolute bull**** carry on, without even a second glance from my gender.

When does it stop lads? When do we start taking back our pride? I don't want to sound completely anti-female but the more I see this happen the more I can't hating their arrogance and societys blind eyes for allowing to them carry on with it.

A lot of corners are waking up to it... here's a recent critique of a misandry on one of the big female shows in america http://www.avoiceformen.com/2011/01/25/dr-phil-can-suck-it/

Here is a Swedish Mra on misandry in the media http://www.pellebilling.com/tag/misandry/

You might have heard about the Tory MP in the UK openly criticising feminist bigotry in the media recently..

and more and more men are noticing whats been going on, so we are not all blind to it. The problem with the blindness you mention is down to it being "normal" and part of the culture.

Reward

parker kent wrote: »

No I am not engaging in this debate with you because you will not consider any opinion that is not yours. You have an agenda that is extremely obvious in all your posts.

Your attempts to belittle my (and other posters) intelligence/knowledge are a sign of the weaknesses in your argument style. I think my posts on here show that I do not have an information gap. I am just not prepared to talk in the absolutes and generalizations that you prefer.

Parker Kent, your opinion is that I'm moronic, ignorant and talking rubbish, seemingly because you don't understand the origin or meaning of the man bad, woman good mantra that permeates our culture, you are not trying to debate or contribute to the conversation. You are just attacking something that you have not heard about straight off the bat, then in your next post you claim that I'm the one that wont accept other opinions. Ironic on a thread entitled double standards, no?

parker kent

Look nobody is saying that there are no examples of misandry in the media or society. If you actually read the thread there are several references to such behaviour (including my post which you recently quoted). However, it is nonsensical to suggest that it as severe as you claim.