Ned O'Keefe & All That Is Wrong With Irish Politics

starbelgrade

In Cork East, Ned O’Keefe, who has been a TD since 1982 has announced he’s retiring. In a statement on the radio this morning, he managed to inadvertently sum up all that is wrong with Irish politics...

To paraphrase, he said, "If you fill the potholes, build the houses & get people the medical card, you'll be in The Dail forever".

As he steps down, his son, councillor Kevin O’Keefe, will contest his seat.

So there we have it - nepotism, the parish pump politics & a stark realisation of why a large percentage of the electorate consistently vote the way they do, all summed up nicely in one sentence & one action.

If ever there was a prime example of why the Dail is badly in need of reform, then this would be one.

yosemite_sam

Yes the son is running, when will they learn

gandalf

Unfortunately for a lot of people who cast their votes in a General Election they cannot distinguish between the work of a county councillor and that of a national representative. Until we as a people can separate this fully then there will always be a temptation for these TD's to cater for the lowest common denominator which is peoples individual greed.

The main thing I want from any new Government is addressing this issue. Until we can stop our national representatives from thinking their duty is to fill potholes, open schools, attend every funeral in their constituency then we are risking a similar situation happening in this country again where everyone has their eye off the big picture because they are stuck focusing on microscopic local issues.

I really would love an end to so-called family dynasty seats as well. Again people are lazy with their votes in this country. They will vote for someone because they recognise their name.

Also who says that being a county councillor is the best training to be a national representative. It sounds to me that it just ingrains the bad practice of sorting local issues ahead of the national ones that they should be dealing with.

Riskymove

gandalf wrote: »

Until we as a people can separate this fully then there will always be a temptation for these TD's to cater for the lowest common denominator which is peoples individual greed.

+1

until people stop basing their vote on such things, candidates will continue to operate like this

later12

gandalf wrote: »

Also who says that being a county councillor is the best training to be a national representative. It sounds to me that it just ingrains the bad practice of sorting local issues ahead of the national ones that they should be dealing with.

Nobody says it's the best training, as far as i know, but it certainly can be a good indicator of how worthwhile the candidate can be before the potential elevation to a more senior and responsible public role on a national level.

If a local councillor had a strong track record in delivering on policy issues, and was able to show himself to be in touch with the public, and brave in his political will, then I would suggest that he could be a very valuable TD and that his role as a councillor would only be of benefit from the point of view of showcasing his talents through the work that he had undertaken locally. Just like a CEO's job can showcase or underline his particular skills set, or the leader of a voluntary group, or so on.

gandalf

Riskymove wrote: »

+1

until people stop basing their vote on such things, candidates will continue to operate like this

I don't feel that people will change? At the end of the day the Irish electorate seem particularly selfish. How else can you explain how Michael Lowry, Beverley Cooper Flynn and Jackie Healy Rae get re-elected.

A couple of things can be done immediately. Put a system in place where if a TD makes representations about local issues those issues are put to the back of the queue and both the TD and the party who requested the intervention are told this.

A longer term solution is that of a total list system for National Representatives and the total reform of local government which I do believe should be one of the priorities of the incoming regime.

P. Breathnach

starbelgrade wrote: »

... To paraphrase, he said, "If you fill the potholes, build the houses & get people the medical card, you'll be in The Dail forever"....

gandalf wrote: »

Unfortunately for a lot of people who cast their votes in a General Election they cannot distinguish between the work of a county councillor and that of a national representative...

Filling the potholes etc. is not the function of a local representative either. That's administrative and practical work, and is the realm of public servants.

later10 wrote: »

... If a local councillor had a strong track record in delivering on policy issues ...

That's what it should be about: policy. Councillors have a role in setting priorities, giving general direction to local administration (a role exercised when they are functioning as a council). It is reasonable for an individual councillor to let the engineering service know about a pothole problem on a particular road; it is not reasonable for a councillor to decide the scheduling of road maintenance and repair operations.

mgmt

We need to reduce the Dail to at most a 100 TDs. That way there could be live debates on tv between the candidates.

P. Breathnach

gandalf wrote: »

... A couple of things can be done immediately. Put a system in place where if a TD makes representations about local issues those issues are put to the back of the queue and both the TD and the party who requested the intervention are told this....

Don't underestimate the cute-hoorism of Irish politicians: they would make representations about all local issues except the ones they favour.

gandalf

later10 wrote: »

Nobody says it's the best training, as far as i know, but it certainly can be a good indicator of how worthwhile the candidate can be before the potential elevation to a more senior and responsible public role on a national level.

If a local councillor had a strong track record in delivering on policy issues, and was able to show himself to be in touch with the public, and brave in his political will, then I would suggest that he could be a very valuable TD and that his role as a councillor would only be of benefit from the point of view of showcasing his talents through the work that he had undertaken locally. Just like a CEO's job can showcase or underline his particular skills set, or the leader of a voluntary group, or so on.

To be honest at the moment all I see is that local councillors are nothing more that assistants to TD's and that is how they are portrayed on any literature that violates my letterbox. Just because someone is good at getting potholes fixed or repair street lights does not automatically mean they have the skills to decide on NATIONAL jobs strategies or complex economic issues.

Personally I believe we need to drastically reduce the number of Councils and to make County Councillors fully paid positions with no interference from their colleagues in the national parliament.

petroltimer

i think what your saying is why we need a big drop in the number of TD's, we got 26 counties not sure of the numbers but say 8 for dublin 3 for cork, galway, limerick and 2 for the rest so roughly around 60-65 TD's this would mean they would have to focus on national issues, would not have enough time for all the local things so county councilors do their job.

gandalf

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Don't underestimate the cute-hoorism of Irish politicians: they would make representations about all local issues except the ones they favour.

Well maybe a better mechanism is to include a clause that if X number of representations happen a TD is banned from seeking re-election.

Tea drinker

mgmt wrote: »

We need to reduce the Dail to at most a 100 TDs. That way there could be live debates on tv between the candidates.

maybe less then they won't have time to be fvckin about opening off licences. Well, LESS time.

later12

gandalf wrote: »

To be honest at the moment all I see is that local councillors are nothing more that assistants to TD's

Assistant probably isn't the correct word, but I would say protogé, yes absolutely. While they have some delegated powers, they are essentially junior to a TD in terms of policy scope and influence both in terms of governance and within their political organisation. I don't see anything wrong with that. If you want to see an overhaul of the local government system, fine, but that is a longer term issue which would require constitutional amendment. My point was one of councillors becoming TDs and I think there is nothing wrong with it under the current format, and in some cases it is better for the councillor to get a dose of reality before considering whether or not he may be ready for national politics.

Just because someone is good at getting potholes fixed or repair street lights does not automatically mean they have the skills to decide on NATIONAL jobs strategies or complex economic issues.

You could say the same for anyone who puts themselves forward as a first time candidate, be that a CEO, a policeman or an RTE Economics Editor. However at least in the case of councillors, their achievments on policy issues can be publicly assessed and measured.

Bottle_of_Smoke

starbelgrade wrote: »

As he steps down, his son, councillor Kevin O’Keefe, will contest his seat.

So there we have it - nepotism, the parish pump politics & a stark realisation of why a large percentage of the electorate consistently vote the way they do, all summed up nicely in one sentence & one action.

Is it really fair to call that nepotism? I mean its not like the seat is just being given to him. He has to get elected.

johngalway

starbelgrade wrote: »

"If you fill the potholes, build the houses & get people the medical card, you'll be in The Dail forever".

And he is correct. But it's unfair to lay all of the blame at the politicians doorstep for that. Try dealing with some civil servants when they think they're right, or the computer tells them they're right. Without a pol, or a solicitor, see how far you get. That is from personal experience, when the little person on the street is wrong, they're wrong, when they're right, they're still wrong.

I would much prefer a system that works for the people, instead of one that works for it's own interests.

starbelgrade

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Is it really fair to call that nepotism? I mean its not like the seat is just being given to him. He has to get elected.

His son is already a FF councillor & he'd have to be nominated by the party to run for the general elections... I could be wrong, but I'm sure that his father's position in FF had something to do with both of these things.

It's no guarantee that he'll get elected, granted, but that's besides the point.

hotmail.com

Do TDs get medical cards for their constituents when they're not entitled to them?

starbelgrade

johngalway wrote: »

And he is correct. But it's unfair to lay all of the blame at the politicians doorstep for that.

Your selective quoting of my post ignores the fact that I clearly wasn't attributing all the blame to the politicians.

later12

johngalway wrote: »

And he is correct. But it's unfair to lay all of the blame at the politicians doorstep for that. Try dealing with some civil servants when they think they're right, or the computer tells them they're right. Without a pol, or a solicitor, see how far you get. That is from personal experience, when the little person on the street is wrong, they're wrong, when they're right, they're still wrong.

I would much prefer a system that works for the people, instead of one that works for it's own interests.

This is true.

The problem, often is that when a member of the public goes into his local county council offices or whatever have you, he is, perhaps, met by bullheaded Mary who was on the tiles last night and really isn't that concerned about your grant application or your medical card or whatever it is.
Councillors and TDs on the other hand tend to be intimately familiar with the councils and their building and their staff, they know who to ask and they know personal phone numbers and they know how to persist and badger civil servants - or at least, the ones who actually matter, and that latter knowledge is important.

starbelgrade

hotmail.com wrote: »

Do TDs get medical cards for their constituents when they're not entitled to them?

Yes.

They also push through planning permissions & bump people up housing lists, among other things.

Riskymove

starbelgrade wrote: »

Yes.

no they dont, this would easily be revealed

in most cases they only do what people are not arsed to do themselves or as you suggest get something looked at or decided upon quicker than it would be

TDs cannot get people who are not entitled to a medical card allocated one

Riskymove

gandalf wrote: »

I don't feel that people will change? At the end of the day the Irish electorate seem particularly selfish. How else can you explain how Michael Lowry, Beverley Cooper Flynn and Jackie Healy Rae get re-elected.

A couple of things can be done immediately. Put a system in place where if a TD makes representations about local issues those issues are put to the back of the queue and both the TD and the party who requested the intervention are told this.

my point is that most people act in that way and want this way, as you say they are selfish

as long as that is the case, the things you suggest are never going to happen

A longer term solution is that of a total list system for National Representatives and the total reform of local government which I do believe should be one of the priorities of the incoming regime.

giving actual power to Local governemtn might result in more focus being given to local issues at that level

however, even in a list system I think people will still vote on a selfish basis...it simply becomes what can FF or FG etc do for me or my locality rather than Joe or Mary Bloggs TD

it is the constituency that forms the basis for the problem I think as opposed to the system

starbelgrade

Riskymove wrote: »

no they dont, this would easily be revealed

TDs cannot get people who are not entitled to a medical card allocated one

I know for a fact that they can & do.

I also personally know dozens of developers that had planning pushed through.

The fact that these things are not widely revealed or reported doesn't mean that they don't happen.

Riskymove

starbelgrade wrote: »

I know for a fact that they can & do.

I also personally know dozens of developers that had planning pushed through.

The fact that these things are not widely revealed or reported doesn't mean that they don't happen.

I was talking about the medical card comment...imo TDs cannot get you things you are not entitled to, although they can certainly try to make you feel like they can!!

of course planning can be pushed through (i.e. voted for by politicians) that is how the system works and there are many legacy issues remaining from that corrupt system

johngalway

starbelgrade wrote: »

Your selective quoting of my post ignores the fact that I clearly wasn't attributing all the blame to the politicians.

I was quoting Ned O'Keefe, not you.

starbelgrade

johngalway wrote: »

I was quoting Ned O'Keefe, not you.

Oops. My apologies.

Padraig Mor

hotmail.com wrote: »

Do TDs get medical cards for their constituents when they're not entitled to them?

Riskymove wrote: »

no they dont, this would easily be revealed

in most cases they only do what people are not arsed to do themselves or as you suggest get something looked at or decided upon quicker than it would be

TDs cannot get people who are not entitled to a medical card allocated one

starbelgrade wrote: »

I know for a fact that they can & do.

I also personally know dozens of developers that had planning pushed through.

The fact that these things are not widely revealed or reported doesn't mean that they don't happen.

My mother worked for the then Health Board many years ago (we're talking 1960s here). According to her, 'representation' by a politician regarding a constituent generally had the opposite effect to that intended - it made the staff more likely to investigate the application in depth to see if they actually met the criteria. i.e. "if they are eligible, they wouldn't need XXXX to have a word - let's have a close look at this one".


OTOH, a friend of mine from the Kerry South constituency claims that a certain well known gombeen TD from the area got a medical card for him when he was in college without him even applying (and he certainly wouldn't have met the criteria).......

later12

Riskymove wrote: »

TDs cannot get you things you are not entitled to

Really? I hope you are not that naive.

I remember when I was off to university a local vote-hunter lamented what a pity it was that I was not about to attend UCD and assured me that if I changed my mind and went to UCD instead of going abroad, he could guarantee me a place on a hall of residence at UCD arising from professional contacts - and I know many people who did benefit from his promise which he duly followed through on post election.
I'm sure there are many younger voters from Tipperary reading this who might know exactly who I am talking about.

The point is that he wasn't even a TD at the time, nor is he now, he was just a councillor who had been nominated to sit on a board. If people really think that political corruption ended with Bertie Ahern or CJ Haughey or Ray Burke they are being extremely naive.

Riskymove

later10 wrote: »

Really? I hope you are not that naive.

I remember when I was off to university a local vote-hunter lamented what a pity it was that I was not about to attend UCD and assured me that if I changed my mind and went to UCD instead of going abroad, he could guarantee me a place on a hall of residence at UCD arising from professional contacts - and I know many people who did benefit from his promise which he duly followed through on post election.
I'm sure there are many younger voters from Tipperary reading this who might know exactly who I am talking about.

.

were you not entitled to a place on the hall of residence?


EDIT: to be clear I am talking about things like medical cards, a passport or whatever where there is a strict, law based criteria

IF UCD Board members allow strokes to happen on who gets into residence that is their business...but not likely illegal

you are either eligible for a medical card or not according to criteria...a TD nod and wink does not help

P. Breathnach

later10 wrote: »

...The problem, often is that when a member of the public goes into his local county council offices or whatever have you, he is, perhaps, met by bullheaded Mary who was on the tiles last night and really isn't that concerned about your grant application or your medical card or whatever it is.

I have encountered many difficult or unhelpful front-line staff in both the public and the private sector. It's generally not a problem to circumvent them; most often, all that you need do is ask for a supervisor or senior officer.

I know that many people do not think along such lines, but that is in part because they have been acculturated by our politicians to see the making of representations as the ordinary way of doing business.

Councillors and TDs on the other hand tend to be intimately familiar with the councils and their building and their staff, they know who to ask and they know personal phone numbers and they know how to persist and badger civil servants - or at least, the ones who actually matter, and that latter knowledge is important.

It is improper that public representatives meddle directly in the way public servants do their work. Knowing and using personal phone numbers involves an inappropriate working relationship. The work of any public servant should be directed by his or her immediate superior, not by a TD or MCC who has her direct line telephone number. If a public representative believes that intervention is necessary, the intervention should be done through set channels, the sort of channels that are available to me or to you.

P. Breathnach

Padraig Mor wrote: »

My mother worked for the then Health Board many years ago (we're talking 1960s here). According to her, 'representation' by a politician regarding a constituent generally had the opposite effect to that intended - it made the staff more likely to investigate the application in depth to see if they actually met the criteria. i.e. "if they are eligible, they wouldn't need XXXX to have a word - let's have a close look at this one".

OTOH, a friend of mine from the Kerry South constituency claims that a certain well known gombeen TD from the area got a medical card for him when he was in college without him even applying (and he certainly wouldn't have met the criteria).......

This illustrates why every claim made about the system can be true or false, or perhaps true and false. Things vary according to the people involved.

Monty Burnz

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Is it really fair to call that nepotism? I mean its not like the seat is just being given to him. He has to get elected.

Well there was surely nepotism in the selection process that has his son winning the opportunity to replace him?

RobbieTheRobber

later10 wrote: »

Really? I hope you are not that naive.

I remember when I was off to university a local vote-hunter lamented what a pity it was that I was not about to attend UCD and assured me that if I changed my mind and went to UCD instead of going abroad, he could guarantee me a place on a hall of residence at UCD arising from professional contacts - and I know many people who did benefit from his promise which he duly followed through on post election.
I'm sure there are many younger voters from Tipperary reading this who might know exactly who I am talking about.

The point is that he wasn't even a TD at the time, nor is he now, he was just a councillor who had been nominated to sit on a board. If people really think that political corruption ended with Bertie Ahern or CJ Haughey or Ray Burke they are being extremely naive.

I suggest you contact the media or the garda and name the individual, you shouldnt come here posting about being so reviled by this but then allow it to happen.

Riskymove

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Well there was surely nepotism in the selection process that has his son winning the opportunity to replace him?

he was chosen by the FF party members in the area..its their choice

just like it will be the choice of voters to elect him

its not like Ned can just give his son the seat

later12

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

I suggest you contact the media or the garda and name the individual, you shouldnt come here posting about being so reviled by this but then allow it to happen.

Who said I was reviled? I know the guy, I told him to f*ck off and then sold him some horse nuts and probably talked about Irish rugby. I'm just responding to the poster who thinks that politicians cannot get acquaintances or voters what they do not implicitly deserve

later12

Riskymove wrote: »

were you not entitled to a place on the hall of residence?

No, I should have been applying like everyone else. As it happened i wasnt taking the UCD offer so it made no difference, I just mean to illustrate a point here. Civil servants and junior politicians often know each other very well both in professional and private capacities and it would be naive to suggest that strings cannot be pulled in particularly familiar or close relationships... especially when they work in the same building and may see each other almost every day.

Riskymove

later10 wrote: »

I'm just responding to the poster who thinks that politicians cannot get acquaintances or voters what they do not implicitly deserve

who was that?

again I am talking about things you are not legally entitled to not 'implicitly deserve'

Riskymove

later10 wrote: »

No, I should have been applying like everyone else. .

well exactly, you are mising my point

you were entitled to apply for a place along with everyone else who was...and UCD then allocate the places.....if they allow strokes and nods and winks to decide on who gets in that is their issue...I am not aware of any legislation or law setting out criteria for residence places

its more to do with knowing someone on the UCD board than being a politician

thats a long way from circumventing a system of law to give someone who does not meet the critieria a medical card

later12

Riskymove wrote: »

well exactly, you are mising my point

you were entitled to apply for a place along with everyone else who was...and UCD then allocate the places.....if they allow strokes and nods and winks to decide on who gets in that is their issue...I am not aware of any legislation or law setting out criteria for residence places

They don't but you are the one missing the point. I'm just responding to this post, and I am saying it is naive. I'm not talking about medical cards although I have heard of it happening, although it is irrelevant. The point is that it would be foolish to believe what you wrote in that post:

Originally Posted by Riskymove
TDs cannot get you things you are not entitled to

Riskymove

later10 wrote: »

. I'm just responding to this post, and I am saying it is naive. I'm not talking about medical cards although I have heard of it happening, although it is irrelevant. The point is that it would be foolish to believe what you wrote in that post:

jeez....are you sure you are not a politician yourself?

my full comment was

I was talking about the medical card comment...imo TDs cannot get you things you are not entitled to, although they can certainly try to make you feel like they can!!

and I also said

TDs cannot get people who are not entitled to a medical card allocated one

I have clarified what I was talking about but you wont accept that...fair enough..lets just leave it there

snubbleste

On foot of this exposé in the Daily Mail in October 2010, O'Keefe has been arrested in connection with using a false invoice to claim for phone expenses.
Things take so long to act on in this country.

Isn't he the one who lodged a claim for an atm charge?

kippy

snubbleste wrote: »

On foot of this exposé in the Daily Mail in October 2010, O'Keefe has been arrested in connection with using a false invoice to claim for phone expenses.
Things take so long to act on in this country.

Isn't he the one who lodged a claim for an atm charge?

It's about time he was taken in and questioned on this at the very least.
I often wonder why this act:
26 of the Criminal Justice (Theft and Fraud Offences) Act.
isn't utilised more when it comes to potentially fradualent abuse of the expenses system.
We might see some movement on O Keefe however unlikely it is to lead to a conviction.
There are at least 4-5 more serving and "retired" politicians that this could also be used against.

Shea O'Meara

So the man who said, "So what if Charlie liked nice women and a few nice shirts?", got arrested under suspicion of fraud? *Shocked*

gandalf wrote: »

Unfortunately for a lot of people who cast their votes in a General Election they cannot distinguish between the work of a county councillor and that of a national representative. Until we as a people can separate this fully then there will always be a temptation for these TD's to cater for the lowest common denominator which is peoples individual greed.

In my own neighbourhood we have a FG T.D., former councillor, who keeps her finger on the pulse of every local issue and simply totes the party line on national issues. Although she ran for council claiming that was the height of her ambitions as she wanted to represent the community, two years in she ran and got elected T.D. based on community work. Fair enough you may say, but Catherine Byrne flip flopped on a number of issues in the run up to her T.D. posting to keep FG H.Q. happy. Then, here's your nepotism, installed her daughter on council as her inexperienced, unelected replacement. Getting things fixed? Coincidently...her other even younger daughter got a lovely Affordable home at the ripe old age of 21.
The only rainbow on the horizon is Catherine's ego itself as it may lead to her downfall.
A few weeks back Breast Cancer charity folk had donated Bra's hanging like buntings in an effort to raise money in a fun way. The bauld Catherine, although a T.D., still runs the neighbourhood like its literally her own back yard and had the council take them all down at 2am one morning at the expense of you and I. She claimed she'd no hand in it and simply voiced concerns by constituents..but was found to be the only bulldog barking for their removal...daughter, the local councillor Claire...not a peep out of her.
Whole affair played out on de radio...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xK3nN4gBgH4

later12 wrote: »

The problem, often is that when a member of the public goes into his local county council offices or whatever have you, he is, perhaps, met by bullheaded Mary who was on the tiles last night and really isn't that concerned about your grant application or your medical card or whatever it is.
Councillors and TDs on the other hand tend to be intimately familiar with the councils and their building and their staff, they know who to ask and they know personal phone numbers and they know how to persist and badger civil servants - or at least, the ones who actually matter, and that latter knowledge is important.

This is one of the biggest public misconceptions. The problem lies with the councillors, end of. The rules bullheaded Mary follows are set by council. When you are told the council can't/won't do something it's the person behind the counters decision? Believe me that job would be a walk in the park if you could simply say 'Yes, no bother' to every request.
What happens behind the scenes is this... The council sets out rules. You come in, make a request. By these rules your are refused, told where to go. You go to your councillor. He/She goes to bullheaded Mary's boss. The boss tells Mary to grant your wish even though it goes against the council policy she was hired to impliment/maintain. The councillor is sure to get a vote, Mary looks like the bitch.

There's a lot wrong with the country. I belive it's the civil war politics, the 'sure what can you do?' attitude. The least we can do is see beyond our immediate front door. It's tough, but I believe if the national house is kept in order, we'll have the chance to work on the local anyway.

CJhaughey

Shea O'Meara wrote: »

I believe if the national house is kept in order, we'll have the chance to work on the local anyway.

You hit the nail on the head right there.
People will live up to what they see their elected representatives doing.
If for example people see a Finance minister of a country claiming in court that he had no bank account and that the money was a dig out from friends and was won on the Gee-gees then they will likely behave in the same manner as it is an example that has been set.
If they see a politician resigning for trying to make representations then they will tend to act accordingly.
Its not going to happen overnight but until the people in power set a proper example then corruption will continue at a high level.
(don't mind my username;))

mike65

Someone else got done for driving about with no NCT you'll be pleased to hear.

Does Bertie drive?

ninty9er

mike65 wrote: »

Someone else got done for driving about with no NCT you'll be pleased to hear.

Does Bertie drive?

It was Ivor Callely. To be honest I'm surprised his car is that old.

Gob****e

Raiser

ninty9er wrote: »

It was Ivor Callely. To be honest I'm surprised his car is that old.

Gob****e

Saw him at the height of his scandal, navy Jaguar pulled up across 3 parking spaces in front of a west cork hotel living it up with his Hyacinth Bouquet wife, the world still owing him plenty of favours.

Sickened.

Back on topic - As for Ned? The Irish public loves Neds, Lowry's, O'Dea's, Healy-Rae's, [insert Gobshíte name here] - Reason being that they know if they vote for these pricks then the local GAA pitch will get a sack of new grass seed or there might be a pothole filled on the auld road near enough to the house cause they trust them to go up and fool the big boyos up in Dublin - Shrewd irish voters, with real solid intellect.

Sunnyisland

For people to realise how long these sort of frauds and scandals are going on,I would recommend you read this book, Scandal nation by Micheal clifford & shane coleman,It starts in 1921 :eek:

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=scandal%20nation%20book%20&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CDgQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.waterstones.com%2Fwaterstonesweb%2Fproducts%2Fmick%2Bclifford%2Fshane%2Bcoleman%2Fscandal%2Bnation%2F7798900%2F&ei=LJabT7uCMsmBhQfv7IXvDg&usg=AFQjCNFZlq0qdIse_GbtABpGpM_HjOrF9w

femur61

On the front of this morning’s Irish Independent "O Keefe could face 10 years in jail". I said to my husband he will probably get a €150 euro fine and a slap on the wrist. Now we learn he gets neither, released without charge. It was a silly headline in the paper but another Irish politicians gets away with taking the Irish people for a ride. You can get put in jail for importing garlic illegally but politicians’ can do whatever they like.

mike65

realies wrote: »

For people to realise how long these sort of frauds and scandals are going on,I would recommend you read this book, Scandal nation by Micheal clifford & shane coleman,It starts in 1921 :eek:

Sure, when else would it have started? The moment you got your freedom your political classes started looking for self enrichment.