Planning in for a new Tesco

maiden

This has been on the cards for years, Micky Lynch has the plans gone in for the new Tesco on the Limerick road. Got a look at the plans today and by God its going to be huge!! Plans for 2 access roads, one across from the West County and the other from Tobartoscaun.

While I like to see development and new jobs been created and the Tesco we have at the mo is ****e, I just cant help wondering if this will literally shut the town down.

With them selling computers, clothing etc it could have a huge impact, and if it does create jobs surely these wont be 'extra' jobs as people in town will start losing theirs!!!

Clareman

The Tesco in town is a disgrace, when you can see what Coonagh is like you realise what Tesco should be, also, Mickey Lynch's site is a disgrace so it'd be great to see something done with it. There's already a Tesco in Ennis which I would assume they would close and relocate, I don't think it would have a huge impact to local businesses, no doubt the local resistants will form their committee and get it stopped again.

Claregirl

Living in the general locality and would welcome Tesco on my doorstep!! I'd be able to use the trolley to bring home the shopping;)

Ryan's Centra would be cruicified if Tesco were around the corner and I'd imagine it would become a magnet for Flannan's students at lunch-time. I don't think the local petrol stations would be too impressed they get a lot of trade from the school.

Clareman

Anyone have details on the planning reference that they've applied under? I believe they normally apply for petrol pumps as well for new shops, every little helps

maiden

http://www.ennistowncouncil.ie/ePlanEnnisTC/InternetEnquiry/rpt_ViewApplicDetails.asp?validFileNum=1&app_num_file=112

I went into the planning offices to have a look at the plans, its one and half times the size of Coonagh, with retail shops etc.

Also submitted are photos of what the place would look like from every angle on the road, and its mighty impressive!

My concern is the access road from Tobartoscaun and the potential loss of business to the town!

Clareman

€38k to apply for planning permission, wow.

In regards to loss of business, Tesco will predominately take business from either themselves or Dunnes, the likes of Ryan's/O'Dowd's are a different market, personally I usually shop in either Tesco or Dunnes (depending on my mood) but will pick up a few bits of pieces in other shops, usually stuff I've forgotten (usually pasta sauce for some reason).

Tesco would be 1 of the larger employers in town I'd imagine. When they opened Coonagh they closed Shannon, I would imagine they will either close the existing 1 or change it to be a "Tesco Express". Alot of people do their shopping in either Kilrush or Coonagh, they'll come back into Ennis.

CptSternn

Is that the one being built right after the big turn there at the old Carriage House pub in Clarecastle?

Clareman

Across from the West County, Mickey Lynch's old yard. There's a massive amount of land there, streatches all the way back to the railway tracks. IMVHO it would be a great thing for the town, no doubt the locals around there will be worried about their house prices again and will object

maiden

Its being built across from the west county, up to Flannans roundabout.

Micky Lynch has 3 applications in, does that mean 38000 x 3!!!! The plans i saw were only submitted yesterday, so not sure whats on the previous one. There was no petrol station on the one I saw.

I might head to the council offices later and have a look at the previous ones and will get ref numbers

NewApproach

Anyone who thinks having a large Tesco in their town is nuts, imo.

Shapey Fiend

Hmm.. I prefer Ennis being more centralised instead of spreading out into characterless industrial estates where there aren't any independent shops. I'd hate us to end up in the same situation as you have in Limerick where everybody goes to the Cresent and the centre is a ghost town.

Clareman

I think I know what you are trying to say New, I assume there's a word or 2 missing

If Ennis didn't already have a Tesco in it I would agree with you, as there is already 1, and a very busy 1 at that, I remember the last time they went for permission them saying that Ennis was a category 2 store with only the bigger shops being category 1, I assume that has changed now since their last application. Their existing shop is a disgrace, totally run down and dated, especially when you compare it to either their competition (Dunnes) or nearby shops (Coonagh, Kilrush & Oranmore).

I don't think that moving just a mile down the road will have a huge impact on the town either Shapey, Knox's would have stayed a supermarket if there was a future in having a grocery shop in the town centre.

IMVHO, Tesco are just looking to update their existing presence in the town and will hope to take business from Dunnes.

Shapey Fiend

What I'm saying is even if it just takes business from Dunnes it's going to reduce footfall in town. People park their car for free in Dunnes or Tescos, and maybe hit a few of the other shops in town while they're there. If there's no Tesco in town it'll be one more reason they won't bother coming in at all.

Don_Corleone

Think I'd agree with shapey fiend, it could really hurt small retailers in town and more than likely the residents will win out again, although this time there might be some compromise.
just one thing I was thinking of though is even if they get planning, who the hell would finance something like this at the moment? mention the word shopping centre to a bank and they'd start running.
Unless tesco are buying the site and developing it themselves?

Clareman

I would imagine that Tesco shops are almost "flat packs" now at this stage, land isn't nearly as expensive as it was, people will always need to get provisions from somewhere. I don't think many people would park in Tesco and walk up town, Dunnes yes, I think Tesco is just that little bit too far for the casual walker. Also, if there's a match in the park you can't get near Tesco so it's a poor location for them in that respect also.

maiden

Just on another point, Micky Lynch owes a fortune to all the small business' in town, that were supplying his hotels etc. Surely any profit he makes from this, should be used to pay back his suppliers and not go into his own pocket??

littlesthobo

maiden wrote: »

if it does create jobs surely these wont be 'extra' jobs as people in town will start losing theirs!!!

This development would create construction jobs in the short term but in the long term jobs would be lost. There was a report linked on here somewhere which found for every job Tesco creates approximately 2 are lost,
i will try to find it.

Not to mention the money lost to the local economy as businesses close and Tesco exports its profits.

littlesthobo

Some interesting reading here. Originally posted by Palmach in the Tesco Kilrush thread

http://www.foe.co.uk/resource/briefings/good_neighbours_community.pdf

CptSternn

It will be bad for the local town centre, but sure, it's like Wal-Mart in America - you can't stop it.

Once it's there everyone will go there no matter if they support it or not. Ever see that episode of South Park that took the piss out of Wal-Mart?

I hate to see the town suffer, but lets face it - shops and businesses are closing left and right. What is left? Other than Dunnes I rarely buy anything in town as you can find whatever you are looking for in Limerick for cheaper.

If we are going to get a load of groceries we usually drive to the Tesco in Limerick anyway.

I lived in Leixlip for a year and we shopped at the Tesco Extra they had there - it was massive! It was almost the same size as a Wal-Mart with pretty much all the same stuff. You could get everything from 50 inch tellys to car batteries there for 30% less than what you would get anywhere else in town.

At the end of the day this is capitalism, what can you do?

Shapey Fiend

Mneh.. I'd rather buy good food locally and buy 30% less of it. Most of the food in Tesco is junk. And the stuff that is good they don't pay the producers a proper price for. The countries full of overweight people I think if they had to walk around a bit more with their shopping they might be in better shape and not consume more than they could comfortably carry!

There's no stopping progress I suppose. When I'm around other towns in Ireland and the UK I'm often appalled by there being no independent shops, just the same chains I'll find in Limerick. What's the point of travelling anywhere in that case? Ennis has managed to stave off this syndrome to a large extent and I'd hate to see it turn into a clone of every other town in the country.

The Tescos you'll find in the city centre in Cork or Dublin aren't very different from the one in Ennis. They just do food. I don't feel a burning desire to have one in Ennis that does flatscreen TV's, garden furniture, potted plants and birthday cards.

maiden

Went to planning office yesterday, had a look at application one, it has only one access road on it and that is from Tobartoscaun. Ref no. 10107.

Also saw virtual photos of what the building would look like, have to say I was impressed, in height it is no bigger than Micky Lynchs building that is already there.

As of yesterday, there are NO objections in. Feb 4th being the last day to object against application one.

Clareman

Usually objections are only in at the last possible moment, I would be very surprised if there isn't any objections this time around, the locals blocked it the last time.

maiden

Id say guaranteed objections will be from Ryans Centra, Centra Clarcastle, Tobartoscaun, Abbeyville/Abbey Court, St Michaels/College Park Residents, also the garages on the Limerick Road.
Not sure about Flannans though.

Clareman

I don't think the other businesses can object on competition grounds, it's not as if Tesco aren't already in Ennis so they can't play that card. Abbey Court were the main objectors the last time, something to do with loading bays backing onto their property, I'm sure this has been taken into account.

I took a drive down by Tobartaoscain last night, it's very run down with rusted galvanised metal on 1 site and rubbish thrown on the other side, I could only imagine that if the site isn't given the go ahead that it'll only become worse, I'd hate to imagine the vermin inside there.

Gregor Samsa

Clareman wrote: »

When they opened Coonagh they closed Shannon, I would imagine they will either close the existing 1 or change it to be a "Tesco Express".

Tesco didn't intend to replace Shannon with Coonagh. They had plans to develop a green field site for a new store in Shannon, but for whatever reason hey weren't able to get it together before the lease expired on the SkyCourt premises. So, rather than get stuck in a new lease, they shifted the staff to Coonagh and Ennis.

Whether our current economic conditions mean that the plan for a Shannon store is still on, I don't know.

http://www.clarecourier.ie/article.asp?id=506

But it wouldn't make sense to have two full Tescos in Ennis, so the current one will indeed most likely be replaced or downgraded to an Express.

Since Dunnes did their refurb/expansion/multistory a few years ago, Tesco has been looking pretty shabby, the car park is often overcrowded, and there's no where for them to expand into in the current spot, so it makes sense to move.

Clareman

I would imagine that a lot of the shops in the current Tesco have long term leases and would have some kind of protection in place to have Tesco as the anchor tenant, the Sherwood spent big money doing their place up, I don't think they'd be happy if Tesco closed, I would say they'll downgrade to an Express until the leases run out and then close it, I think they did something similar in Tralee not too long ago

Battleflag

Pennys will relocate into Tesco's premises and Tesco Express will re-locate into Pennys, so what Ive been told at work (Tesco)

400 jobs will be created for the new store too which is a plus

Clareman

exioot wrote: »

Pennys will relocate into Tesco's premises and Tesco Express will re-locate into Pennys, so what Ive been told at work (Tesco)

400 jobs will be created for the new store too which is a plus

That would make a lot of sense for both shops

Lady Chatterton

maiden wrote: »

Just on another point, Micky Lynch owes a fortune to all the small business' in town, that were supplying his hotels etc. Surely any profit he makes from this, should be used to pay back his suppliers and not go into his own pocket??

I agree that there have been a number of small and medium sized business that got an awful financial roasting when Lynch Hotels went into Administration a while back. There was a report in the Champion about businesses complaining that even after they agreed to accepted substantially reduced amounts for their products and services, some were still left waiting for a long time to be paid.

However, an important legal point can't be ignored, that is Lynch Hotel and Michael Lynch Builders are completely separate legal entities and both are limited companies. Furthermore, Mickey Lynch maybe a director of these businesses but he is not personally liable for any debts. (unless personal guarantees have been given).

CiaranMT

A bigger Penney's would be a huge draw for the place, but can't help feeling that the new Tesco will end up like the Crescent in Limerick.

Clareman

I thought the Crescent was usually very busy?

Insect Overlord

Clareman wrote: »

I thought the Crescent was usually very busy?

It is! Trouble is, it also dragged a huge amount of business away from the city centre.

CiaranMT

Which is what I should've also said in my post. It'll drag people away from Ennis Town Centre.

ongarboy

Clareman wrote: »

I would imagine that a lot of the shops in the current Tesco have long term leases and would have some kind of protection in place to have Tesco as the anchor tenant, the Sherwood spent big money doing their place up, I don't think they'd be happy if Tesco closed, I would say they'll downgrade to an Express until the leases run out and then close it, I think they did something similar in Tralee not too long ago

Yes, in Tralee they have two successful stores. The original town centre one was replaced with a smaller unit. (not quite as small as an Express store but still essentially a food only store) and their newer main store was built in a retail park (Manor West) on the edge of town (which is a massive store with a lot of non food items also (clothes/household goods/electrics/dvds/books etc). The last census in 2006 has Ennis with a bigger population than Tralee so if Tralee can absorb 2 Tescos with a smaller population (as well as 2 Dunnes, Lidl, Aldi, Supervalu), I don't see any reason why Tesco would shut down their Ennis town centre store even with the new out of town store.

mitresize5

just to reiterate what other posters have said.

Anyone who thinks its a good idea to have large out of town shopping centres take a walk around Limerick city centre this Saturday.

Its like a ghost town and has been destroyed by the growth of these shopping centres.

CiaranMT

ongarboy wrote: »

Yes, in Tralee they have two successful stores. The original town centre one was replaced with a smaller unit. (not quite as small as an Express store but still essentially a food only store) and their newer main store was built in a retail park (Manor West) on the edge of town (which is a massive store with a lot of non food items also (clothes/household goods/electrics/dvds/books etc). The last census in 2006 has Ennis with a bigger population than Tralee so if Tralee can absorb 2 Tescos with a smaller population (as well as 2 Dunnes, Lidl, Aldi, Supervalu), I don't see any reason why Tesco would shut down their Ennis town centre store even with the new out of town store.

Slightly different situation. People living south-east of Ennis will also be drawn to Limerick to shop. The distance is only around 20 miles between them as it is.

Tralee is the capital of Kerry, and Killarney's a good enough distance away as to be negligible enough in terms of drawing shoppers from the area who might otherwise go to Tralee. Tralee also has North Kerry and the Dingle Peninsula east of Dingle to depend on.

CptSternn

I agree that the new Tesco will have a detrimental effect on the town centre, but sure, that is capitalism. Do you really think the council will stop development of a huge money-making project?

Look at all of the flooding we had recently because houses were built on known flood planes. Look at the ghost estates around Clare. All of these things got council blessings because the people in charge knew someone or gave a brown envelope to the right person.

The council is still made up of the same people, nothing has changed since then.

I'd put money on the fact the council won't say boo about the new Tesco no matter how many people challenge it.

maiden

This went in for planning before and was refused before, on what grounds im not sure. There was major local objections for the project.

I didnt see the old plans so cant compare to the new plans but im sure there have been major changes. Mickey Lynch has paid 38000 euro for each application he sent in and he has three in. Thats nearly 120,000 euro spent trying to get planning. Factor in the cost of getting the plans done and all that goes with that, he is def in, to win this time!

Clareman

I think the last time the locals got it shut down, too many loading bays and impact to local traffic I think, before the by-pass that used to be 1 of the busiest traffic areas in town.

In regards to it being "out of town", I don't think many people walk from the current Tesco up town, I think it's a little bit too far for most people, Dunnes would have a far worse effect, I would imagine that as many people would walk up town from an "Express" store as the current 1.

Also if there's a match on in Cusack Park Tesco is impossible to get to, this must have a massive impact to their trade (not that there's many matches on in there of course)

CiaranMT

Clareman wrote: »

I think the last time the locals got it shut down, too many loading bays and impact to local traffic I think, before the by-pass that used to be 1 of the busiest traffic areas in town.

In regards to it being "out of town", I don't think many people walk from the current Tesco up town, I think it's a little bit too far for most people, Dunnes would have a far worse effect, I would imagine that as many people would walk up town from an "Express" store as the current 1.

Also if there's a match on in Cusack Park Tesco is impossible to get to, this must have a massive impact to their trade (not that there's many matches on in there of course)

Current Tesco from town is nay more than a five minute walk, it's doable. NO-ONE is going to walk from the proposed Tesco to town or vice versa.

Surely if Tesco is impossible to get into, this means their carpark is full and will have more customers into the shop? I'd say the managers in the place love when games are on at Cusack, the trade in snacks, drinks etc, and for the Sherwood would be great.

Clareman

The Sherwood usen't to open on a Sunday, don't know if it still doesn't, but most people use the car park to park for the match and go again

pmct

i think most people are missing point the centre of ennis is already dying most people i know are going to limerick because the major shops arent here so maybe it would keep people in ennis

Clareman

Ennis is a boutique shopping town don't you know

The issue facing the centre of Ennis has far more to do with rates/parking/economy than Tesco leaving to a greenfield site imvho, I think the impact of Dunnes moving out would be far more damaging than Tesco moving

ongarboy

Clareman wrote: »

Ennis is a boutique shopping town don't you know

Actually that is what I find quite charming about Ennis when I visited there last summer - the amount of independent, interesting, one off retailers as opposed to the bland repetitive chainstores other midsize towns now have like Tralee, Athlone, Newbridge etc.

Just regarding the post on the council lack of interest on proper sustainable planning of town centres, Tralee Town council voted against Marks And Spencer from opening in an out of town shopping centre so as to protect Tralee town centre from becoming a ghost town. The locals went mental (so councils can be damned if they do and damned if they don't) What did M&S do? - they opened up in an out of town centre in Killarney (Tralee's loss, Killarney's gain). Tesco have also tried to open in edge of town locations in Castleisland and Listowel and have also been refused for similar reasons (although I can't help but suspect that existing retailers/vested interests had an influence on the planning process as they were the main objectors in all cases).

Clareman

I called into Tesco in Ennis this evening, I used to always call into Tesco in Coonagh before the tunnel opened. Anyway, I decided to get a trolley, 2 trollies completely block an aisle in Ennis, the amount of broken tiles on the floor is astonishing, the roof looks like it's leaking in a lot of places and they don't seem to have enough space for all their produce, I would imagine that if Tesco were to have a town centre site they would need to knock what they have a build again, it reminds me of a pre-fab that I had in primary school.

Claregirl

You should have seen it during the really bad weather before Christmas. The girls on the checkouts were wearing gloves and some of them looked blue with the cold...!

Shapey Fiend

I've my doubts Dunnes will still be around in 20 years time. They'll get edged out by Tesco, Lidl and Aldi. When that goes there'd be nothing in the town center.

It's a 3 minute walk from the current Tesco to town. Loads of people do it. Glor used to be a popular spot to park as well before they cracked down.

Whatever happens the Limerick effect should be avoided at all cost. I don't care if some people go to Limerick to shop it's still a better situation. These big Tescos and chain shops send all their money abroad and contribute feck all to the local economy other than a few minimum wage jobs.

CiaranMT

Clareman wrote: »

I called into Tesco in Ennis this evening, I used to always call into Tesco in Coonagh before the tunnel opened. Anyway, I decided to get a trolley, 2 trollies completely block an aisle in Ennis, the amount of broken tiles on the floor is astonishing, the roof looks like it's leaking in a lot of places and they don't seem to have enough space for all their produce, I would imagine that if Tesco were to have a town centre site they would need to knock what they have a build again, it reminds me of a pre-fab that I had in primary school.

Two trolleys block almost any aisle in any supermarket, and I should know. I work in one.

Was in Ennis for 6 months last year and never really thought badly of Tesco up there. It is a bit dated I guess.

Lady Chatterton

I think the only positive thing about Tesco in Ennis is the staff, most of them have been there for years and generally speaking they are very helpful and friendly. I think even Brendan Kelly (Store Manager) has been there since the Quinnsworth days......

I'm showing my age now, anyone else remember Quinnsworth? and seeing as I'm going down memory lane, do ye remember when Knox's was a supermarket.. PS: I'm really not a fossil.............

kollegeknight

yeah i rem quinsworth.
the staff in tesco in ennis are great. i did bag packing there for the school in work in once and they were polite to all customers, ive never had a problem when i shop there.
i hope if the new tesco is built that these staff are minded.

Figerty

Is there any chance Lynches are trying to get the planning permission as they may be heading for NAMA?

This has been tried in Dublin already to improve the asset value on the books to decrease the potential hit on the loans by having a more valuable asset. Land without planning is farm land.. land with a shopping centre planned for it is an asset.

given the carrry on at the west County, and the Clare Inn and Breiffi hotel it wouldn't surprise anyone.