Are we not the laughing stock of the world at the moment?

gent9662

Given the antics of the government over the last few days do you think the rest of the world and the bond holders are laughing at our own inability to run the country?

The Orb

Yes we are the laughing stock. I find it hard to comprehend that one democratically elected political "party" could so totally devastate a country. I find it equally hard to comprehend that anybody could countenance voting for them in the election. They have treated every citizen of this state with disdain in pursuit of their "party" aims. If someone had written this nobody would have believed it. Fianna Fail should be damned to hell, never to return until they accept that what matters is the state and its citizens, not just their "party" and it's benefactors.

Jaysoose

Its stopped being funny for some time, the rest of the world have been in on this joke for a while.

rc28

Yes we most certainly are the laughing stock of the world now and have been for many months now.

Devastatingly accurate and honest editorial in today's Financial Times:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/de38ea96-2722-11e0-80d7-00144feab49a.html#axzz1BwkSH2cC


"Six members of the cabinet resigned and Mr Cowen tried to give an electoral leg-up to lesser-known Fianna Fáil MPs with scattergun offers of ministerial portfolios. This reshuffle – and eventually the government itself – was scuttled by the party’s Green coalition partners, leaving Fianna Fáil in meltdown and mutiny.

These factional antics, as Ireland faces arguably the worst crisis in its history as an independent nation, could turn the expected Fianna Fáil rout at the polls into electoral annihilation.

That may be richly deserved. This is, after all, the party that through its cronyism and incompetence artificially prolonged the boom of the 1990s into the credit and property bubble of the past decade, and then gave a blanket guarantee to its banker friends that has ended in the humiliation of Ireland becoming a ward of the European Central Bank and the International Monetary Fund."



It's sad that we must look to foreign media outlets to tell the truth :mad:

outandabout

I don't think we're the laughing stock of the world because the rest of the world has more important things to worry about.


Ireland's reputation has suffered but countries that do business with Irish companies on a regular basis know that the fault for this mess lies with Irish bankers, property developers, some senior civil servants and politicians.

We have a very good education system and Irish workers are highly regarded at home and abroad.

What we need now is a Government and administration to harness the energy and talents of honest, hard-working Irish people.

bladespin

My firends in Poland and the Czech republic think we're like a soap opera.

Anonymous1987

dclane wrote: »

Given the antics of the government over the last few days do you think the rest of the world and the bond holders are laughing at our own inability to run the country?

I would think bond holders and commentators are more fearful of the events in Ireland than amused.

outandabout

My firends in Poland and the Czech republic think we're like a soap opera.
...

But during the Celtic Tiger, Ireland was a very good place to live and work for the Poles in particular and the Czechs to a lesser extent.

The fundamentals of a good society are here. I'm still proud to be Irish and would repeat the need to emphasise the difference between the politicians and others who got us into this mess and the workers who are now the victims.

Solair

The collapse of the Government and general election are most certainly not making us a laughing stock.

I was watching some French and Spanish coverage, and there has been nothing more than admiration for the fact that we can dump a Government and hold a general election without having riots and blood on the streets.

To many people it just demonstrates that we're one of Europe's most mature, stable democracies.

To put it into context in the last few months:

UK - vicious riots in London.
France - riots, strikes, more strikes, and a few more strikes just for good measure.
Belgium - STILL no Government.
Spain - Strikes and denial of reality.
United States - a congresswoman was shot!

Also remember that the business media have no comprehension of politics. They tend to like pro-business dictatorships like China more so than "unpredictable" democracies.

Dannyboy83

I have family in Germany & France, they've been on the receiving end of some very nasty comments both in Academic circles and just out'n'about.

I have a lot of British friends who think it's a joke that they have slashed their spending and public services, and yet bail us out so that we don't have to.

I have friends in various countries in Eastern Europe and we are literally being portrayed as Zimbabwe on the Atlantic. One friend studying medicine said that when one of the doctors heard where he was from, he just raised his eyes to heaven and exhaled.

Friends in USA/Canada say that some people are treating them as if they are refugees,:pac:

The nastiest comments by far have been from the Germans and Brits tho - they're extremely pissed off that their governments are agreeing to pay for us while we can't even get our own finances in order.

Solair

To be honest, I haven't really received ANY comments about Ireland around Europe. The majority of people aren't actually paying much attention to it any more than we did when Iceland went under.

It's a blip on the news in most countries.

The UK is possibly the only bit of an exception to that as it's of interest to them.

When I was in Spain recently, most business people were more terrified that what was happening in Ireland was likely to be replicated in Spain in 2011 than anything else. There was absolutely no sense of anyone sneering. The two countries are remarkably similar in terms of the property bubble, banking involvement, over-incentivisation of property, political connections to property sector etc etc.

If the aftermath of a property bubble collapse means that people start just taking the piss and getting really nasty, then I think the EU's future is pretty bleak. So much for solidarity!

thomasj

The nastiest comments by far have been from the Germans and Brits tho - they're extremely pissed off that their governments are agreeing to pay for us while we can't even get our own finances in order.

Is it our finances or are we trying to sortout bondholders/banks from their countries remembering fmoh it was a bailout we were forced to take. Remember the original line by Europe during the negotiations was to save the European banking system

Btw what was our reputation like during the spring/Reynolds era?

faceman

We're not a laughing stock. The only puzzling question foreigners ask is why Irish people roll over and tolerate incompetencies and don't public protest their feelings

There are political and economic incompetencies all over Europe. Particularly France, Spain and of course Italy.

The only time I see "humorous" political headlines in the media it relates to Burlesconi.

Dannyboy83

thomasj wrote: »

Is it our finances or are we trying to sortout bondholders/banks from their countries remembering fmoh it was a bailout we were forced to take. Remember the original line by Europe during the negotiations was to save the European banking system

Our finances.
We still have the highest paid state sector in the EU.

Heres just one brief example, there are loads of them if you search:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1331870/IRELAND-BAILOUT-Every-family-Britain-pay-300.html

Dannyboy83

Oh - nearly forgot - the unionists are having a field day!:pac:

Solair

My experience of comments has been more one of "wtf!" "how did that happen?" "weren't you booming a few years ago?" "What happened?"

I seriously think that some of the commentators on various discussion boards, including boards.ie have a bit of an over-blown notion about how much people actually know about Ireland.

Mostly they've absolutely no idea what our economy's like, where Ireland is, how the political system works etc etc. They'll just have some vague idea that it's "up there" somewhere in Europe. Quite a lot of them just assume it's something like "England" ... in the same way that we kinda don't know all that much about Austria and might assume it's a bit German.

Distant relative Irish-Americans often have a rather strange view of Ireland based on stories from the 19th century and recent news from Northern Ireland i.e. the troubles, the rebel songs etc etc. So, you get asked crazy questions like "how's the war going" or "do you have a bomb shelter at your house"...

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Our finances.
We still have the highest paid state sector in the EU.

Heres just one brief example, there are loads of them if you search:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1331870/IRELAND-BAILOUT-Every-family-Britain-pay-300.html

There are loads of examples of that kind of thing in EVERY public sector.
I'm sure we could pick through the UK's accounts too and find some gross overpayments and questionable payments e.g. MPs having their moats cleaned, Royal families... that kind of stuff...

It's the same everywhere, there are always overpaid public servants or publicly funded "masters" in some cases.

On the other side of it, our public service is pretty small. Our public expenditure as % of GDP is significantly lower than the UK. That doesn't mean it's being spent any more correctly. We are definitely spending too much in some areas and WAY too little in others. Compare HSE and NHS for example! The education system here is pretty poorly funded in comparison to the UK. Welfare pays better dole rates, but there are countless other supports in the UK that are often conveniently left out of the comparison which make the UK welfare system a lot more generous than it looks at first glance.

http://ec.europa.eu/economy_finance/publications/publication11902_en.pdf

It depends on what your tabloid journalist view point is really.

I'm not saying there isn't a lot wrong with our public services, but I think some of those articles are just a bit unfair.

junder

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Oh - nearly forgot - the unionists are having a field day!:pac:

Well you did get quite arrogant about how great your economy was doing and how we should immediately abandon the union in favour of the nirvana of the republic of Ireland, now it's gone tits up you have to expect us to take the piss

Dannyboy83

Solair wrote: »

It depends on what your tabloid journalist view point is really.

I'm not saying there isn't a lot wrong with our public services, but I think some of those articles are just a bit unfair.

Fair comments, but the point is that there has been an avalanche of negative sentiment about Ireland, particularly in the last year.

I don't have time to dig up the articles now, I'll try to dig them up later but in the last few months I've read comments in the Spanish media along the lines of "Greek and Irish incompetence is affecting Spanish bonds"
and in the German Media on the day of the bailout
"Ireland screws up, Germany Pays".
etc.

Solair

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Fair comments, but the point is that there has been an avalanche of negative sentiment about Ireland, particularly in the last year.

I don't have time to dig up the articles now, I'll try to dig them up later but in the last few months I've read comments in the Spanish media along the lines of "Greek and Irish incompetence is affecting Spanish bonds"
and in the German Media on the day of the bailout
"Ireland screws up, Germany Pays".
etc.

Yes, the Spanish bonds have NOTHING to do with the fact that the Spanish banking sector i.e. the Cajas are in a sea of Anglo Irish Bank style property deals and bad debts?

Or, the fact that they're paying air traffic controllers €1million a year?

Or that they have >20% unemployment...!!

No, it's definitely the Irish incompetence that's damaging the Spanish bonds (rollseyes)

Dannyboy83

Solair wrote: »

Yes, the Spanish bonds have NOTHING to do with the fact that the Spanish banking sector i.e. the Cajas are in a sea of Anglo Irish Bank style property deals and bad debts?

Or, the fact that they're paying air traffic controllers €1million a year?

Or that they have >20% unemployment...!!

No, it's definitely the Irish incompetence that's damaging the Spanish bonds (rollseyes)

I'm well aware of the problems in Spain.

That's not the point I was making.

Biggins

rc28 wrote: »

...Devastatingly accurate and honest editorial in today's Financial Times:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/de38ea96-2722-11e0-80d7-00144feab49a.html#axzz1BwkSH2cC

It's sad that we must look to foreign media outlets to tell the truth :mad:

That article is very, very accurate in a lot of ways. Especially the following last bit:

...This should also be the occasion for the independent voices clamouring for a new politics in Ireland to come forward and lay out their stalls. Irish voters, and the future of the republic, need no less.

For example, I was speaking to my county council offices this morning trying to get the forms necessary for running for the Dail and they are in a state of panic. The returning officer is all over the place wondering what the hell is the current state of play or more likely WHEN things are going to straighten out.
The officer did comment that there has been a great interest in the number of people wishing to run as independents.

Now either there is a lot of peed off people, a lot of folk deciding now is the time to speak up about how angry they are, have single issues or I suspect that part of these new appearing possible independents are previous FF members whom have decided to disassociate themselves from the org for fear of being tarnished with the toxic touch of the org'.

gent9662

Maybe we are the laughing stock because of the voting and election structure we have.

For example, what other European country has PR? We have for years voted for a local electee to fight for a footpath or local extension to a school and when these people are voted in they have no ability to lead the country. They are essentially out of their depth. Another thing worth noting is that politics is very much a hereditary role. Look at the Lenihans, Cowen, Haughey, Brutons, Dara Calleary etc.

ednwireland

belgium has been without a gov. for 224 days so far so no i dont think we are (although i was in the uk and bbc and itv led with the story sat and sun)
http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/europe/news/article_1613902.php/30-000-Belgians-protest-lack-of-government-crisis-Roundup

GSF

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

The nastiest comments by far have been from the Germans and Brits tho - they're extremely pissed off that their governments are agreeing to pay for us while we can't even get our own finances in order.

Not in myt experience. The nastiest comments have come from the French. Which is ironic as they have sponged off Germany for years. Maybe they are worried that we are draining their slush funds.

ei.sdraob

rc28 wrote: »

That may be richly deserved. This is, after all, the party that through its cronyism and incompetence artificially prolonged the boom of the 1990s into the credit and property bubble of the past decade, and then gave a blanket guarantee to its banker friends that has ended in the humiliation of Ireland becoming a ward of the European Central Bank and the International Monetary Fund."

WOW :eek:

seanmc1980

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Our finances.
We still have the highest paid state sector in the EU.

Heres just one brief example, there are loads of them if you search:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1331870/IRELAND-BAILOUT-Every-family-Britain-pay-300.html

lol daily mail he hehe, maybe the SUN or news of the world will have a more sensational headline!!
its this type of media which tell half truths and lie's to stir up emotion in the ingorant public. lets talk about facts

1) britain PLEDGED 7bl to ireland. doesn't mean they have given a penny and last time i checked no money came directly from britian
2) its a loan, britian as a country earn interest on it. a bond? have you heard of one of these? its actuall beneficial for Britian to give the 7bl to ireland

murpho999

No we are not the laughing stock of the world because the simple fact is that the rest of the world knows nothing about Ireland.

Vast majority of foreigners think we are part of the UK.

Lived in Holland for 7 years and I was amazed at how many highly educated Dutch people thought I was British, thought sterling was our currency etc,
even had some trying to convince me that we were part of the Commonwealth.

Also, fact of the matter is that governments collapse all the time and that is a sign of democracy in action, current situation is not good for us at the moment because we have ineffective government but that would not be known abroad and they would just see headlines as 'Government Falls' and that happens all the time.

Think there is a real sense of over dramatisation by Irish media and also by people in general and people should realise that the rest of the world does not follow Ireland as much as they think.

murpho999

dclane wrote: »

Maybe we are the laughing stock because of the voting and election structure we have.

For example, what other European country has PR? We have for years voted for a local electee to fight for a footpath or local extension to a school and when these people are voted in they have no ability to lead the country. They are essentially out of their depth. Another thing worth noting is that politics is very much a hereditary role. Look at the Lenihans, Cowen, Haughey, Brutons, Dara Calleary etc.

All fair points but I challenge you to find one person outside Ireland who knows that?

seanmc1980

we not the laughing stock though, yes THE IRISH PEOPLE got greedy (Banks, Gov and the people, you can forget the plumber with 5 house)

Its very easy to blame the gov, they threw it out there and we fell hook line and sinker for it, so we need to look in the mirror and take the hit for some of this mess.

in relation to being a laughing stock i find its not as bad as been made out. its quiet a small story in the world stage,

DoesNotCompute

seanmc1980 wrote: »

we not the laughing stock though, yes THE IRISH PEOPLE got greedy (Banks, Gov and the people, you can forget the plumber with 5 house)

Its very easy to blame the gov, they threw it out there and we fell hook line and sinker for it, so we need to look in the mirror and take the hit for some of this mess.

in relation to being a laughing stock i find its not as bad as been made out. its quiet a small story in the world stage,

No, we didn't all get greedy. During the boom years, I didn't blow half a million in cheap, easy EU credit on a 3 bed house in south Co. Dublin, I didn't buy 3 cars I couldn't afford to run, I didn't go on shopping trips to NYC... In fact during the boom, I saved my money.

I resent being told to take the hit for a mess that I did not create.

nick 56

No we are not a laughing stock , and more importantly we don’t deserve to be. One post on this thread talks of Polish people sneering at our situation well f**k me, is that not the nation that was / is run by a weird pair of twins and managed to lose its government in a plane crash caused by drunks in the cockpit. The country that has Nazi rallies in its capital weekly.

Italy – very nice run by a paedophile sex fiend

England - Having lived and worked in England , it’s a racist kip, don’t believe me try a Saturday night in somewhere like Lewisham or Tottenham

France – very chic plenty of general strikes plus race riots and talk about haters got to hate they even hate each other eg get a Parisian to talk about people from Normandy or any rural district.

Israel – ask a Palestinian

Middle east – rules about what size stones to use to kill some woman buried up to her shoulders cos she kissed the wrong guy

Germany – what a dump the most miserable regimented child hating country I have ever been in. But its soooo tidy. If you want to see a the Green party wet dream go to Germany.

Spain - Property bubble makes ours look like a kids party. That and the crappiest plumbing in western europe

No I have lived and worked all over the world and I would not want to live anywhere else, Ireland, Dublin, North side can’t be bet.

Ireland is at last coming of age. An end to the corrupt FF s**tbags , a terrible price to pay but we (well you) did keep electing them. (did you have a SSIA account?)