It now costs more to fill a tank, then it does to fly to Europe.

Owen

Nearly 90 Euro to fill the tank this morning - it cost me about 80 Euro to fly myself, the other half and our bags return to Faro in October (It's a dump btw, don't bother going). It used to cost me about 58 Euro. With all the palava about Government scandals, banking, mortgage payments going up, wages down - I'm starting to think the cost of motoring in Ireland is now effectively a stealth drain on our wallets that we seem to grumble about, but not take notice.

The fuel prices here now are absolutely sky high, with warnings that they're going to go higher again. Motor Tax in this country is also expensive, as is Insurance, and of course the purchase price of vehicles in the first place (But I do agree that VRT is a necessary evil).

Whoever comes to power next, needs to introduce some sort of policy to restore the cost of motoring in this country to a more affordable level. In my opinion - and that's all it is -

Petrol should be no more than 1.10 a litre.
Diesel no more than a Euro.
Motor Tax at the highest level for older cars should be 800, and an average 2 litre car should be 400 Euro.

I don't have a family, but I've been talking to friends who do and they get stressed now about driving. They calculate only the essential trips, and most of them have admitted to playing fuel light roulette to see if they can postpone filling up just one more trip until the wages/dole come in.

If fuel prices go any higher, companies will also keep their vans off the road, and this will affect economy growth too. I know of one Healthcare company who havve kept 50% of their sales reps off the road this year and are selling via the phone. They're not doing as much sales as they did with their cars, but it's better in the company's eyes than having them on the road and paying lease/insurance/fuel bills of hundreds per week.

We have no proper public transport outside Dublin, and cars are a necessity - especially for those in rural areas. Isn't it about time someone in one of the parties took a stand on finally reducing the cost of motoring for people in Ireland - especially in recessionary times?

CiaranC

Stop driving then. I did, now my transport costs are 40 quid a month for aLuas tax saver ticket.

CiaranC

CiaranC wrote: »

Stop driving then. I did, now my transport costs are 40 quid a month for aLuas tax saver ticket.

Luas isn't in Cork. Also some of us don't want to sit next to junkies

stephendevlin

Take the bus....

Oh wait.... we dont have a proper bus service.....

PaintDoctor

PaintDoctor wrote: »

I don't have a family, but I've been talking to friends who do and they get stressed now about driving.

I honestly can't fathom how people can afford kids these days.

stephendevlin

RoverJames wrote: »

Luas isn't in Cork. Also some of us don't want to sit next to junkies

Are you saying CiaranC Is a junkie?? lol

stephendevlin

stephendevlin wrote: »

Are you saying CiaranC Is a junkie?? lol

:pac: no.
But when I lived in Dublin years ago I occassionally got the Luas from the Red Cow into town, loads of junkies on it, and that was 5 or 6 years ago. I doubt it's after improving, from what friends who have been on it recently tell me its now 10 times worse.

flanzer

Good post. I now only go the get the groceries once every 2 weeks as opposed to getting regular smaller shops.

We don't visit her parents either in Tipperary as much as we used to, as it costs too much.

Mr. Presentable

I no longer take the van to work unless I know I have a run down the country to make. The downside of this is I can no longer take a distance job and do it same day.

kopfan77

CiaranC wrote: »

Stop driving then. I did, now my transport costs are 40 quid a month for aLuas tax saver ticket.

PaintDoctor wrote: »

We have no proper public transport outside Dublin, and cars are a necessity - especially for those in rural areas.

It only took 3 minutes for the first rubbish response to the OP....read the full post....No proper public transport outside of Dublin. I live in newcastlewest, bout 25miles from limerick city and to be honest the bus service between the two is pretty pants. On top of that then the bus service within limerick city is pretty crap as well. I DONT HAVE A CHOICE but to use my car

RobAMerc

PaintDoctor wrote: »

I'm starting to think the cost of motoring in Ireland is now effectively a stealth drain on our wallets that we seem to grumble about, but not take notice.

Only now your guessing that ? Why did you think we were paying VRT, excise up the wazoo and road tax for ? Our brilliant road system ?

Get this straight - the government including the Greens ( No matter what they say ) don't want you to stop driving your car - what they want is for you to think they want you to stop - that's their justification for taxing you like some sort of criminal.

voxpop

Public transport isnt an option for some ppl - if you have kids (which I do), it would be pretty much impossible to get them to football training,hurling training, swimming, friends houses, friends parties, etc,etc without using a car.

I switched from petrol to diesel and walk/cycle a bit more to bring the costs down - I dont think we will see ~1.10 for petrol for a long time and not a chance of Tax being reduced.

Xios

Switch to a motorbike for commuting.
Become a better/more alert road user and save a ton with fuel economy.
Tough **** if you need to carry tools/boxes though.

E39MSport

Doctor of Paint. Great minds etc. Within 5 mins of each other. That's got to be a record.

TestTransmission

CiaranC wrote: »

Stop driving then. I did, now my transport costs are 40 quid a month for aLuas tax saver ticket.

I think you're lost

Tea drinker

For sure it affects the cost of doing biz in Ireland.

how much of the cost of a litre is due tax / duty?
in 2008 it was 52 cents, then another 4 cents were added on 2010?
And in 2009?

It must be heading for 65-70 cents now? Sure we will need to keep putting it up until people seriously reduce their driving. AKA the beatings continue until morale improves.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/carbon-tax-will-send-fuel-and-heating-bills-soaring-1844678.html

langdang

Could be worse, seeing as you've mentioned Faro, I'd say petrol prices there are about the 1.60 mark now, depending on grade... It would have been approx 1.45ish when you were there in October? Dunno what their other motoring costs are like tho.

(some nice spots out wesht of Faro btw)

JustLen

Xios wrote: »

Switch to a motorbike for commuting.
Become a better/more alert road user and save a ton with fuel economy.
Tough **** if you need to carry tools/boxes though.

Be fun trying to drop the kids to school and do the shopping on a motorbike id imagine

Anan1

kopfan77 wrote: »

It only took 3 minutes for the first rubbish response to the OP....read the full post....No proper public transport outside of Dublin. I live in newcastlewest, bout 25miles from limerick city and to be honest the bus service between the two is pretty pants. On top of that then the bus service within limerick city is pretty crap as well. I DONT HAVE A CHOICE but to use my car

But you do get to choose where you live. A large part of the reason we're so dependent on cars here is that we have a small, widely-dispersed population that's impossible to serve effectively with public transport.

Atomic Pineapple

Having moved from culchie land to the big smoke (albeit on its boundaries) myself a year ago the difference in public transport is unbelievable, I can get to pretty much anyway I want around Dublin via a dart or train or bus or even a taxi without too much delay or hassle.

But back home the nearest bus is an hours walk away, trains that used to service the area no longer exist and getting a taxi involves ringing for one of the local hackneys and waiting around until they are free to come get you.

No matter what anyone says, outside Dublin and other large urban areas public transport is simply not a viable option, which is a disgrace.

Owen

Anan1 wrote: »

But you do get to choose where you live

If people can't afford to run their cars, how are they supposed to afford to change their address - especially when so many people are in negative equity?

TurkeyBurger

Xios wrote: »

Become a better/more alert road user and save a ton with fuel economy.

How does this work? I'd love some tips on how to save money on fuel. I'm doing a little under 40 miles a day return into Dublin City Centre.

JustLen

In reality we do not get to choose where we live. For the majority of people who are lucky enough to have a job these days, how practical do you think it would be to up and move to Dublin leaving your job behind and going in search of a new one.

Not to mention any other reasons in the way of sick/dependant family members, kids/schools, rent or buying selling homes etc..

langdang

TurkeyBurger wrote: »

How does this work? I'd love some tips on how to save money on fuel. I'm doing a little under 40 miles a day return into Dublin City Centre.

Like he said - get a bike!

biko

Use Park and Ride.

thirtythirty

Tea drinker wrote: »

For sure it affects the cost of doing biz in Ireland.

how much of the cost of a litre is due tax / duty?
in 2008 it was 52 cents, then another 4 cents were added on 2010?
And in 2009?

It must be heading for 65-70 cents now? Sure we will need to keep putting it up until people seriously reduce their driving. AKA the beatings continue until morale improves.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/carbon-tax-will-send-fuel-and-heating-bills-soaring-1844678.html

Prices broken down here

Anan1

PaintDoctor wrote: »

If people can't afford to run their cars, how are they supposed to afford to change their address - especially when so many people are in negative equity?

JustLen wrote: »

In reality we do not get to choose where we live. For the majority of people who are lucky enough to have a job these days, how practical do you think it would be to up and move to Dublin leaving your job behind and going in search of a new one.

Not to mention any other reasons in the way of sick/dependant family members, kids/schools, rent or buying selling homes etc..

It's more of a long-term thing. As the cost of running a car continues to rise it becomes relatively more attractive to live somewhere with good public transport links. People who've already bought in places where they're car dependent may well be, in the current economic climate, stuck.

Owen

biko wrote: »

Use Park and Ride.

Didn't know it went to Aldi, brought kids to music classes/football, and brought Carpenters around to their job sites.

I can't believe the amount of apathy on this thread. There's a whole big pile of 'meh'. Are we all so complacent now that we'll sit down on our asses telling people to take park and ride, buy a motorbike, buy a Yaris or move to Dublin while fuel prices climb higher towards 2 Euro and Motor Tax for older cars increases year on year? Doesn't anyone else long for cheaper day to day motoring?

Owen

Anan1 wrote: »

It's more of a long-term thing. As the cost of running a car continues to rise it becomes relatively more attractive to live somewhere with good public transport links. People who've already bought in places where they're car dependent may well be, in the current economic climate, stuck.

So, in other words, your point is moot. Those who are living where they're living must wait 20 years until equity starts to sort itself out - as opposed to say ... the Goverment dropping the price of fuel and road tax and getting the country up and moving again, and a bit of morale back into the mindset of the public?

challengemaster

Anan1 wrote: »

But you do get to choose where you live. A large part of the reason we're so dependent on cars here is that we have a small, widely-dispersed population that's impossible to serve effectively with public transport.

That's just silly...

Some people get to choose where they live, but at the moment, there's a lot of people struggling with mortgages on the house they're living in at the moment, or even on cars. Never mind trying to move / take out a new one.

Also, if people have a job, they're lucky. It's highly unlikely they'll be able to find another which is secure allowing them to move to another area.

And to even further negate your point, the fact that even Dublin has pretty shoddy public transport, taking into consideration any EU counterparts...

The most serviced bus route in Dublin is "Out of service". Public transport in this country is an utter joke, and certainly not a feasible method of daily transport like the government would like you to believe.

Also, you hardly expect everyone in the country to move into dublin?

ScouseMouse

Assuming paintdoctor works out of his van, i.e. lots of equipment, paints, etc etc, how does he take public transport ?

This increased cost will have to be passed on to the customer. In other words, you and I.

I left the house at 5.30 this morning. I will arrive home about 9pm tonite.

Today I will drive to the bank, deliver groceries for customers and may hit the cash and carry.

These increases are unavoidable for business. And as for suggesting we jump a luas or bus....

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Public transport is all well and good, I lived in Clane for a while, quick spin to Sallins and between the train and the Luas Dublin City centre was less than 45mins away, did a course just off O Connell Street for a week and it was really stress free commuting, except for the stampede off the train in Sallins in the evening. I wouldn't have dreamed of bringing the car in for the day.

Now living a mile or so from Cork City but work in Ringaskiddy, conversely I wouldn't dream of bussing it down here and I pity anyone who has to.

BrianD3

I can afford my fuel bills but it is sickening how much I'm spending these days. I drive high mileage and am spending around 120 quid a week now. As a result of this I am cutting back on both non essential journeys and discretionary spending. If there are many others doing similar it's not great for the economy.

And fuel prices are only going one way. My car is due for replacement and I'm starting to think about electric vehicles now.

BrianD3

BrianD3 wrote: »

And fuel prices are only going one way. My car is due for replacement and I'm starting to think about electric vehicles now.

Seriously? Surely a 1.2 diesel or similar would be more cost efficient if you are doing high miles?

BrianD3

RoverJames wrote: »

Seriously? Surely a 1.2 diesel or similar would be more cost efficient if you are doing high miles?

It would indeed. But if fuel prices continue going up (which I believe they will) and electric car prices start to come down then...

There is potential for rapid change in both the world economy and car industry.

MagicMarker

Even the bus service in Dublin is ridiculous.

I live in Tallaght and work in Sandyford and I'd have to get a bus into town and then get the Luas out to Sandyford. This would probably take me close to 2 hours with rush hour etc, not to mention having to pay 2 bus fares per day and 2 luas fares per day.

It's probably not that much dearer driving and it takes me less than 30 minutes. :rolleyes:

mullingar

I think its time to install an Ethanol kit in the car and blend petrol/ethanol myself!!!

Apart from "brewing" it myself, can Ethanol be purchased pure???

listermint

MagicMarker wrote: »

Even the bus service in Dublin is ridiculous.

I live in Tallaght and work in Sandyford and I'd have to get a bus into town and then get the Luas out to Sandyford. This would probably take me close to 2 hours with rush hour etc, not to mention having to pay 2 bus fares per day and 2 luas fares per day.

It's probably not that much dearer driving and it takes me less than 30 minutes. :rolleyes:

Does the 75 not still go out to sandyford, I used to get the luas in and luas out, then the 75 then i just jacked and cycled.

shedweller

TurkeyBurger wrote: »

How does this work? I'd love some tips on how to save money on fuel. I'm doing a little under 40 miles a day return into Dublin City Centre.

There has been talk of fuel saving techniques here but were deeply unpopular. How much higher do fuel prices have to go before the topic becomes popular?

mullingar wrote: »

I think its time to install an Ethanol kit in the car and blend petrol/ethanol myself!!!

Apart from "brewing" it myself, can Ethanol be purchased pure???

Ask the junkies on the Luas?:p

Incidentally, how much fuel is used per person on a flight to and from Faro?
I believe it is around 40mpg per person on a fully loaded 747.....the mind boggles!

Mr Benevolent

Fuel is approximately 1/2 the total yearly costs of a car. A lot of people in cities (well, Dublin) simply don't use their cars much. My gf and I are getting one because a) the car is inherited and b) we need the experience and NCD. Otherwise we wouldn't buy a car until any kids come along. All told it'll do about 7000km a year.

CarMuppet

PaintDoctor wrote: »

Petrol should be no more than 1.10 a litre.
Diesel no more than a Euro.
Motor Tax at the highest level for older cars should be 800, and an average 2 litre car should be 400 Euro.


We have no proper public transport outside Dublin, and cars are a necessity - especially for those in rural areas. Isn't it about time someone in one of the parties took a stand on finally reducing the cost of motoring for people in Ireland - especially in recessionary times?

If that is your contesting campaign…. then you have my vote!

Tea drinker

spottyelephant wrote: »

Prices broken down here

Thanks for the link Spotty, here is the breakdown from pumps.ie

Current average petrol price: 145.9
Current Vat: 25.32c/litre
Fixed Duty: 59.622c/litre
Government take: 84.94c/litre
Cost before tax & duty: 60.96c/litre
Retailer & distributor margin (est): 11c/litre
Base petrol price (est): 49.96
Government take: 84.94c/litre


Current average diesel price: 136.9
Current Vat: 23.76c/litre
Fixed Duty: 48.57c/litre
Government take: 72.33c/litre
Cost before tax & duty: 64.57c/litre
Retailer & distributor margin (est): 11c/litre
Base diesel price (est): 53.57

oh the humanity

Atomic Pineapple

85cent a litre on petrol and they still manage to bankrupt the country, unreal.

Zubeneschamali

Confab wrote: »

Fuel is approximately 1/2 the total yearly costs of a car.

You're either ignoring depreciation or running very cheap cars.

ottostreet

I just bought a 3 litre petrol car. **** diesel.


I say this with gung-ho attitude right now...come back to me in a few weeks when Im broke!

Blut2

Petrol is more expensive in most Western European states than here - the UK, France, Germany, Italy, Holland and Belgium (amongst others) all have higher per litre prices than Ireland. Theres absolutely no point in moaning about fuel prices here, the government will never reduce tax on it as its a highly lucrative consumption based tax and we already have a relatively low price (comparatively speaking). Prices are only going to go up as fuel becomes scarcer, trying to insist on a price of 1.10/L is fairly laughable.

A reform of the motor tax system to reduce the yearly tax bill and transfer more of it to fuel tax would however be something worth trying for and complaining about. Putting more emphasis on taxation for usage would be far fairer than the system we have now.

Mr Benevolent

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

You're either ignoring depreciation or running very cheap cars.

The latter. I don't buy new, I have others discount them for me

pcardin

challengemaster wrote: »

The most serviced bus route in Dublin is "Out of service". Public transport in this country is an utter joke, and certainly not a feasible method of daily transport like the government would like you to believe.

so true...

Wolverine_1999

Blut2 wrote: »

Petrol is more expensive in most Western European states than here - the UK, France, Germany, Italy, Holland and Belgium (amongst others) all have higher per litre prices than Ireland. Theres absolutely no point in moaning about fuel prices here, the government will never reduce tax on it as its a highly lucrative consumption based tax and we already have a relatively low price (comparatively speaking). Prices are only going to go up as fuel becomes scarcer, trying to insist on a price of 1.10/L is fairly laughable.

A reform of the motor tax system to reduce the yearly tax bill and transfer more of it to fuel tax would however be something worth trying for and complaining about. Putting more emphasis on taxation for usage would be far fairer than the system we have now.

We had the 3rd cheapest petrol in Europe a good few years ago when we were still being taxed out of our skin for car tax alone. (Behind Greece and Spain I think). So, if anything.. you could make up a "slight" margain on the difference in the prices in car tax. (A modern 2L costs roughly €180 to insure on the continent whilst it costs over €600 here).

Nowadays, the petrol is as expensive as our European counterparts, but the car tax has also gotten more expensive. They know we rely on cars too much so they wouldn't think twice about it. So now we pay more tax depending on if we drive more, and we are taxed through the roof just for owning a car.

Don't get me started on the toll roads!

Wolverine_1999

Confab wrote: »

The latter. I don't buy new, I have others discount them for me

Sensible thinking Would never buy a new car in Ireland... never.

KERSPLAT!

ottostreet wrote: »

I just bought a 3 litre petrol car. **** diesel.


I say this with gung-ho attitude right now...come back to me in a few weeks when Im broke!

You could buy my car for the price of your yearly tax

Im depressed now