C&H General Election Thread

Pygmalion · 20-02-2011 02:03AM

amacachi wrote: »

Secondly, if you have a problem with politicians wanting to give people freedom and a choice then you should be voting for a "socialist" or "workers" party.

Someone is making massive sweeping statements about opposition political parties?
Damn, I gotta get in on this.

Fine Gael hate gay people and don't want them to have equal rights.
Labour hate hard-working men and women and want to give our money to heroin dealers.
Sinn Féin hate the English-speaking population and want to kill all the Brits.

Not that I don't think the socialist and workers parties are useless.
They're **** and I'd never consider voting for them if I had a chance.
But since trolling and over-the-top exaggerations are showing up I figured I'd join in.

amacachi · 20-02-2011 02:11AM

Pygmalion wrote: »

Someone is making massive sweeping statements about opposition political parties?
Damn, I gotta get in on this.

Fine Gael hate gay people and don't want them to have equal rights.
Labour hate hard-working men and women and want to give our money to heroin dealers.
Sinn Féin hate the English-speaking population and want to kill all the Brits.

Not that I don't think the socialist and workers parties are useless.
They're **** and I'd never consider voting for them if I had a chance.
But since trolling and over-the-top exaggerations are showing up I figured I'd join in.

So jokey exaggerations are now trolling? Good to know.

Pygmalion · 20-02-2011 02:16AM

amacachi wrote: »

So jokey exaggerations are now trolling? Good to know.

Depends on the context, I saw it and figured you were saying it to get a rise out of any supporters of those parties.
Saying "Political party X hates freedom and choice" is very rarely meant to be taken entirely as a joke, even if there is some obvious exaggeration in there.

On the other hand though, if it was for trolling purposes you probably would've gone after the more mainstream parties, since hopefully no-one here is supporter either of the two you mentioned.

amacachi · 20-02-2011 02:23AM

Pygmalion wrote: »

Depends on the context, I saw it and figured you were saying it to get a rise out of any supporters of those parties.
Saying "Political party X hates freedom and choice" is very rarely meant to be taken entirely as a joke, even if there is some obvious exaggeration in there.

On the other hand though, if it was for trolling purposes you probably would've gone after the more mainstream parties, since hopefully no-one here is supporter either of the two you mentioned.

I'll be honest, it was a joke but I was also thinking that if someone didn't get it and it led them to vote how I hope people will then it wouldn't be a bad result. :pac:

Also like how you hope there are no supporters of certain parties, I believe we have more in common than either of us realise. :P

KnifeWRENCH · 20-02-2011 02:42AM

Pygmalion wrote: »

Someone is making massive sweeping statements about opposition political parties?
Damn, I gotta get in on this.

Fine Gael hate gay people and don't want them to have equal rights.
Labour hate hard-working men and women and want to give our money to heroin dealers.
Sinn Féin hate the English-speaking population and want to kill all the Brits.

Not that I don't think the socialist and workers parties are useless.
They're **** and I'd never consider voting for them if I had a chance.
But since trolling and over-the-top exaggerations are showing up I figured I'd join in.

In fairness, while I certainly don't believe that Fine Gael hate teh gheys, they are against gay marriage and therefore they don't want them to have equal rights. One reason (out of many) that I won't be voting for them.

I reckon FG have good ideas when it comes to the economy, but in terms of social issues and whatnot they're the most conservative and objectionable of the big parties out there. Ideologically, I'd be closer to FF than FG but of course FF is far too full of corruption and hopeless politicians for me to vote for them. (Also FF, while not strictly against gay marriage, don't want to introduce it because they want to see how their "watered-down equality" civil partnership Bill pans out first....)

One poster in the LGBT forum made a point when comparing FF and FG that FF are basically populist fence sitters; they'll like whatever the public tells them to like. FG, on the other hand, are "Christian democracy" *shudder* and so stick more rigidly to their principles. In one way, it's more admirable to stick to what you believe, I just think it's a shame that what they believe doesn't sit right with me at all.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer · 20-02-2011 02:45AM

I was briefly a Socialist Party member

amacachi · 20-02-2011 02:48AM

KnifeWRENCH wrote: »

In fairness, while I certainly don't believe that Fine Gael hate teh gheys, they are against gay marriage and therefore they don't want them to have equal rights. One reason (out of many) that I won't be voting for them.

I reckon FG have good ideas when it comes to the economy, but in terms of social issues and whatnot they're the most conservative and objectionable of the big parties out there. Ideologically, I'd be closer to FF than FG but of course FF is far too full of corruption and hopeless politicians for me to vote for them. (Also FF, while not strictly against gay marriage, don't want to introduce it because they want to see how their "watered-down equality" civil partnership Bill pans out first....)

One poster in the LGBT forum made a point when comparing FF and FG that FF are basically populist fence sitters; they'll like whatever the public tells them to like. FG, on the other hand, are "Christian democracy" *shudder* and so stick more rigidly to their principles. In one way, it's more admirable to stick to what you believe, I just think it's a shame that what they believe doesn't sit right with me at all.

Leaving principles aside do you see any outcome from this election that will give "equal rights" to gays? I don't so I wouldn't base my vote on it. I don't see any social issues being dealt with in the next Dail so my vote is going purely on economics, which is the only way I can see any sensible vote being cast.

KnifeWRENCH · 20-02-2011 02:51AM

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

I was briefly a Socialist Party member

Ah well, Joe Higgins is a decent guy. Wouldn't let him anywhere near the Department of Finance, mind....

At various points through college, I was signed up to Sinn Féin, the Green Party and Fianna Fáil! You'll sign ANYTHING on Socs Day in college! :pac: I was never actually a card-carrying member of any party though. I tend to pick and mix my beliefs from all of them. (FG for economy, Labour for social issues, Greens for environmental issues, FF for their foreign affairs policy and SF for the teenage Republican buried inside me!)

KnifeWRENCH · 20-02-2011 02:55AM

amacachi wrote: »

Leaving principles aside do you see any outcome from this election that will give "equal rights" to gays? I don't so I wouldn't base my vote on it. I don't see any social issues being dealt with in the next Dail so my vote is going purely on economics, which is the only way I can see any sensible vote being cast.

No, I don't see any outcome giving equal rights. And while I'd be ideologically closer to FG than Labour in terms of economic issues, I don't think a single party government would be a good thing. Labour really are more centre-left, bordering on centrist, than the loony left-wing party people like to think of them as.

And I can't fully leave principles aside: FG = Christian Democracy, and giving a party with any religious affiliation a vote does not sit right with me at all.

It was obvious that as soon as the election was announced that Enda Kenny was gonna be the next Taoiseach. I would much prefer a FG-Labour Government than FG on their own (or FG with a few independents) and I feel that giving Labour my vote is important in that regard (on top of the other reasons I'm voting for them.)

I do agree that the economy should be the most important issue, but I don't think other issues should be totally forgotten about either.

unknown13 · 20-02-2011 02:56AM

Pygmalion wrote: »

Fine Gael hate gay people and don't want them to have equal rights.

Is calling a referendum for the Civil partnership really hating the LGBT community? I for one don't think it is. Divorce was an extremely close referendum.

amacachi · 20-02-2011 03:03AM

KnifeWRENCH wrote: »

No, I don't see any outcome giving equal rights. And while I'd be ideologically closer to FG than Labour in terms of economic issues, I don't think a single party government would be a good thing. Labour really are more centre-left, bordering on centrist, than the loony left-wing party people like to think of them as.

And I can't fully leave principles aside: FG = Christian Democracy, and giving a party with any religious affiliation a vote does not sit right with me at all.

It was obvious that as soon as the election was announced that Enda Kenny was gonna be the next Taoiseach. I would much prefer a FG-Labour Government than FG on their own (or FG with a few independents) and I feel that giving Labour my vote is important in that regard (on top of the other reasons I'm voting for them.)

I do agree that the economy should be the most important issue, but I don't think other issues should be totally forgotten about either.

I don't think they're as Christian Democrat as they're made out to be. (They may make themselves out to be so, I haven't seen it myself) I mean surely getting rid of compulsory Irish in the LC (something I'm completely in favour of) is pretty liberal and is the opposite of pandering to the conservative culchies that they're meant to appeal to according to some?

I also don't see how a coalition is what we need right now. A slash-and-burn is what's needed and while FG won't do that they'll do a lot more than Labour would.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer · 20-02-2011 03:04AM

KnifeWRENCH wrote: »

Ah well, Joe Higgins is a decent guy. Wouldn't let him anywhere near the Department of Finance, mind....

At various points through college, I was signed up to Sinn Féin, the Green Party and Fianna Fáil! You'll sign ANYTHING on Socs Day in college! :pac: I was never actually a card-carrying member of any party though. I tend to pick and mix my beliefs from all of them. (FG for economy, Labour for social issues, Greens for environmental issues, FF for their foreign affairs policy and SF for the teenage Republican buried inside me!)

Yeah I've been a fair few myself since I began college, often at the same time :pac: The amount of various party leaflets and posters around my room is ridiculous for example I've an 'SWP MARXISM 2010' sign-up sheet beside me at the moment... Don't know where that came from I was never one of them as far as I recall

I'm still a Sinn Fein member, but not an active one or one who agrees with a lot of their policies. I can't even find my Easter Lilly badge at the moment.

randylonghorn · 20-02-2011 03:10AM

amacachi wrote: »

I also don't see how a coalition is what we need right now. A slash-and-burn is what's needed and while FG won't do that they'll do a lot more than Labour would.

Whether it's a good or a bad thing, imho it's a given, the next government is going to be a coalition of some hue.

In many ways I'd love to see FF and FG forced into coalition together, in many ways they are two sides of the same coin, though in fairness I'd credit FG with being in the main less ridden with corruption than FF have been in the last two decades.

If they were forced into coalition together, there might be some hope that a genuine opposition might emerge, rather than watching one party try to score petty points against its mirror image on the other side of the house.

It's the last thing either of them would want, though, the old scars run deep ... they might just about prefer it to an alliance with Sinn Fein, and even at that ....

Duffy the Vampire Slayer · 20-02-2011 03:17AM

With regards to Fine Gaels social conservatism it was pointed out to me earlier that they legalized divorce in Ireland.

unknown13 · 20-02-2011 03:17AM

Independents will be key in this election. If a fair number get in and FG do as well as they are expected. FG will probably find one way of getting most of them onto their side. If a small number of Independents get in, then FG will look somewhere else. I still think FG / SF is probably going to happen. Both parties are doing well in the polls and making improvements. The issue with SF in Government is what ministerial positions will they hold?

amacachi · 20-02-2011 03:28AM

randylonghorn wrote: »

Whether it's a good or a bad thing, imho it's a given, the next government is going to be a coalition of some hue.

In many ways I'd love to see FF and FG forced into coalition together, in many ways they are two sides of the same coin, though in fairness I'd credit FG with being in the main less ridden with corruption than FF have been in the last two decades.

If they were forced into coalition together, there might be some hope that a genuine opposition might emerge, rather than watching one party try to score petty points against its mirror image on the other side of the house.

It's the last thing either of them would want, though, the old scars run deep ... they might just about prefer it to an alliance with Sinn Fein, and even at that ....

FF and FG policy-wise would be ideal but I couldn't stand the idea of FF being near the cabinet. FF could well be back in next time if
1) The seats fall the right way and they can undermine a coalition partner
2) They're out of government and Labour hold back FG's plans.

We shall see though.

Pygmalion · 20-02-2011 03:42AM

unknown13 wrote: »

Is calling a referendum for the Civil partnership really hating the LGBT community? I for one don't think it is. Divorce was an extremely close referendum.

Well as I said it was an exaggeration.
What I was basing it on was their opposition to recognising these partnerships as marriages.
I'm not in any way saying that it isn't a step in the right direction, but it's still not true equality when you draw these distinctions.

Edit: To clarify, just found a policy document.
Interesting read, and I think it's fairly clear that to say they "hate gays" is wrong :P.

But it does show that they want to hold back from giving same-sex couples the same rights in all ways.

Fine Gael fully supports the institution of marriage. For the majority
of people, it is seen as the best model in which to raise children and
marriage will continue to confer rights upon parents that Civil
Partnership does not.

They repeat basically the same thing later on and clarifies that marriage grants "rights regarding children" that civil partnership shouldn't.

randylonghorn · 20-02-2011 05:11AM

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

With regards to Fine Gaels social conservatism it was pointed out to me earlier that they legalized divorce in Ireland.

They were actually seen (with some justification) as much more socially radical than FF in the FitzGerald era ... it was a fairly radical mindshift for themselves as a party, tbh, and many of the old guard at local level, especially in rural areas, were uncomfortable with it.

They tended to drift back a bit, though not totally, after Bruton replaced Dukes, and FF distanced themselves somewhat from the hierarchy in the intervening years, with the result that both parties are similar enough in their stance at this stage I think.

KnifeWRENCH · 20-02-2011 03:10PM

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

With regards to Fine Gaels social conservatism it was pointed out to me earlier that they legalized divorce in Ireland.

randylonghorn wrote: »

They were actually seen (with some justification) as much more socially radical than FF in the FitzGerald era ... it was a fairly radical mindshift for themselves as a party, tbh, and many of the old guard at local level, especially in rural areas, were uncomfortable with it.

He was Taoiseach before I was born, so I obviously don't remember him being in office, but from seeing him in interviews and stuff FitzGerald always seems like a very decent man. He made the first attempt to legalise divorce, liberalised Ireland's contraception laws and spoke out against the "Pro-Life" Amendment that was added to the Constitution in 1983.

If a man like FitzGerald was leading FG today, I would certainly consider giving them a vote.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer · 22-02-2011 01:55AM

http://www.finegael2011.com/game/

Tax that!

On yer bike!

Cheapest bank bailout?

Its the economy stupid!

Insect Overlord · 22-02-2011 01:57AM

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

http://www.finegael2011.com/game/

Tax that!

On yer bike!

Cheapest bank bailout?

Its the economy stupid!

I haven't seen a game load that slowly since Crash Bandicoot on the PS1. Shocking stuff.

Pygmalion · 22-02-2011 03:04AM

Every single time I go there I get:

We couldn't load the game this time. But we are working on it

Fine Gael: Can't make a website work, but they'll fix the country.

randylonghorn · 22-02-2011 03:48AM

I've just killed Inda 4 times in 60 secs.

What was the message they wanted to get across again? >_>

Duffy the Vampire Slayer · 22-02-2011 10:58AM

That Enda Kenny is allergic to the touch of non-Fine Gaelers?

Slow Show · 22-02-2011 01:08PM

I need a life, I've been trying to get past Gerry Adams for the last twenty minutes...

Lawliet · 22-02-2011 01:12PM

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

http://www.finegael2011.com/game/

Heh FF government NEVAR 4GET

Duffy the Vampire Slayer · 22-02-2011 01:24PM

Slow Show wrote: »

I need a life, I've been trying to get past Gerry Adams for the last twenty minutes...

Unsurprisingly Gerry Adams is the most likely to kill Enda.

Bottleopener · 22-02-2011 01:45PM

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

That Enda Kenny is allergic to the touch of non-Fine Gaelers?

I'm more surprised he's allergic to traffic cones.

KnifeWRENCH · 22-02-2011 06:49PM

Slow Show wrote: »

I've been trying to get past Gerry Adams for the last twenty minutes...

If I take this quote completely out of context, it's hilarious!

Namlub · 22-02-2011 07:07PM

Mary Coughlan killed me. Bitch.

C&H General Election Thread

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