Head Gasket Unit replaced, still oil in water.

TequilaMockingBird

I had the head gasket "unit" (?) replaced about a month ago, and just checked now after car wouldn't start first time, and there's oil in the water again.

Any ideas what the problem might be? I won't be able to see the mechanic who worked on it till Monday.

MarkoC

Was the head polished ?

Also the lower block itself may have a crack ...

TequilaMockingBird

MarkoC wrote: »

Was the head polished ?

Also the lower block itself may have a crack ...

As far as I know, rather than polishing the head gasket it was replaced. I've hardly driven it in the last month, short runs 2 or 3 times a day, which probably hasn't helped?

It's an 02 Rover 25.

pajero12

Is it possible there's just some oil residue in the radiator from when the head gasket broke up?

doOh

u have to polish blocks when changing headgasket ...

MarkoC

TequilaMockingBird wrote: »

As far as I know, rather than polishing the head gasket it was replaced. I've hardly driven it in the last month, short runs 2 or 3 times a day, which probably hasn't helped?

It's an 02 Rover 25.

No i didnt mean polishing the gasket but the block head itself.
Because, usually when the headgasket is gone and engine gets overheated, the head will curved and has to be polished before the new gasket will be fitted.
Thats a standard procedure which has to be done ... In these cases just a new headgasket wont help ... (if car was overheated)

TequilaMockingBird

pajero12 wrote: »

Is it possible there's just some oil residue in the radiator from when the head gasket broke up?

Oh is that possible - I will hope for that then! Quite a bit of oil though.. And then the non-starting problem...

doOh wrote: »

u have to polish blocks when changing headgasket ...

Excuse my lack of knowledge. I know nothing about cars unfortunately. It was explained to me as it being too big a job to "skim" the gasket, so the "unit" was replaced instead. I think. It's a different language to me I'm afraid.

Just wondering if it's going to cause more harm driving it until Monday, and, more importantly, is it going to cost me another €400ish?

TequilaMockingBird

I've had this car for 10 months and I've replaced the exhaust and the head gasket.

Car cost €1750
Exhaust €100
Headgasket €350

It's not worth putting any more money into it. Only 33k km on it as well. NCT (*hollow laugh*) until 6/12

I'm getting a bicycle.

Snaggerman

Seems to me that your mechanic f*cked the job up tbh. A replacement head should last a tad longer than a month! If you've hardly driven it since the job and oil is in the water already, that points to either shoddy work or the replacement head being already faulty. Either way you have some redress with mechanic, good luck

Snaggerman

Oh, and don't try to drive it yet, you'll only do more damage

Sounds like it wasn't fixed properly, did it overheat initially ? MAy well be the head was needing a skim, and it wasn't done, or done too much. I reckon your mechanic is a clown.

DIfficulty starting coupled with oil in water could mellow be low compression due to the head not being 100 per cent, this shortly after a head gasket job .....

Mr Benevolent

Or the job wasn't done in the first place...

doOh

what car is it ? 33km and headgasket gone ? ;/

eagle10

Sounds like he just replaced gasket didn't bother skimming.
Even if the car didn't overheat I'd reckon it's wise to skim.

Did the car overheat?

€350 is feck all.

Got mine done few months ago €530 very cheap by a friend had being quoted €900 elsewhere.
Skim, t belt kit, power stearing belt, altenator belt, did not get pressure tested he was confident enough in the head.

You can do a chemical test to see if there is hydrocarbons in your coolant

eagle10

eagle10 wrote: »

Sounds like he just replaced gasket didn't bother skimming.
Even if the car didn't overheat I'd reckon it's wise to skim.

Never wise to skim a K if it's true.

Nissan doctor

It sounds like there is something your mechanic is trying hide. To big a job for him to skim the gasket so he replaced the unit itself. None of that sentence has any relation to anything that should be done when replacing a head gasket.

The head surface should be checked and skimmed level if needed, the head should be pressure tested to check for leaks and the block deck should be checked too, this is very important on the Rover K series engine due to the design on the block.

From what you have said your mechanic said, it was too much hassle for him to do it properly and he just threw on a new gasket and hoped for the best. I doubt he even measured the head bolts properly to see if the could be reused.

mondeo

My mother had a Rover 45 years ago and after the HG was changed we noticed alot of oil still surfacing into the expansion bottle. It was just the remainder of oil that had been lurking around the cooling system. I removed the expansion bottle and cleaned it out and replaced it 3 or 4 times and then it stopped building up with oil. The car never ran 100% after changing the HG. Could never get it to idle properly after that.

TequilaMockingBird

Thanks for the advice guys, sorry I'm not sure what the right terminology is for what has been done.

The car did over-heat, no hot air from the interior blower was the first indication something was wrong. I had a thread here asking what could be wrong actually. I don't understand what a head gasket is in the first place, never mind what was replaced. The guy who fixed it is the guy I bought it from, who specialises in Rovers. He charged me 350 to replace it, and said the parts were 320... He seems like a genuine enough guy so I'm hoping he will sort it out when I ring him Monday.

Thanks again.

TequilaMockingBird

Can I ask, why do head gaskets "go"? This is my second car it's happened to. (I've had 3 cars - the 3rd I drove into a wall 5 minutes after buying it and wrote it off ). Is it something I'm doing or just bad luck?

guil

head gasket usually goes after being drove for a while with very little water

TequilaMockingBird

guil wrote: »

head gasket usually goes after being drove for a while with very little water

Thanks, I've always kept an eye on the oil and water though. I shall just assume it is my ever present bad luck!

Bigus

Not your fault at all
head gasket shouldn't go and most modern cars don't need coolant level checked. rover had a problem with this engine and head gasket failure.

smokie2008

It basically seals the top and bottom half of your engine. Rover on their K Series engines gaskets are made up of a steel core plate with molded in place silicon rubber beads to seal the oil and coolant passages that carry your oil and coolant around your engine.

When the engine overheats the cylinder head normally 'warps' or 'buckles' from the heat and your engine has no longer got compression.

After this happens the Cylinder head needs to go on a machine and has a very small layer cut off it making it perfectly flat again. Then you replace the gasket and put it all back together again and your engine is all sealed up again.

Hope this helps you understand a bit more.

(Sometimes cowboys are known to just replace the head gasket and not machine the head flat in order to save on cost and effort)

TequilaMockingBird

Many thanks for that - pictures help! At least I can ask what has been done and what needs to be done with some idea what I'm on about.

I hate not knowing what I'm talking about when going to complain about something, kind of takes the wind out of your sails!

guil

guil wrote: »

head gasket usually goes after being drove for a while with very little water

JUst had a peak at the OPs other thread. CAr was driven with low coolant until there was a burning smell. Op, your mechanic is a total and utter clown, I reckon the liners were in a desperate state. Also in this case I would think there was a leak or something which caused the coolant loss. THe car was then driven beyond the point of overheating.

Merch

How do you find the limits to skim (mill) from a head gasket? of a specific model of car?
And can you just bring it to an engineering works to get done or where?

TequilaMockingBird

RoverJames wrote: »

JUst had a peak at the OPs other thread. CAr was driven with low coolant until there was a burning smell. Op, your mechanic is a total and utter clown, I reckon the liners were in a desperate state. Also in this case I would think there was a leak or something which caused the coolant loss. THe car was then driven beyond the point of overheating.

Could you link to that thread Rover (hiss), I can't find it, I know I posted AFTER the thread asking what to do with Anti-Freeze, and I asked why would the car be cutting out whilst idling? It would help me get the timeline in order.

Also, just to add to the joy, I have no receipts for ANYTHING. Not the car, nor the work done subsequently buy the seller. I'm right bright me..

TequilaMockingBird

Merch wrote: »

How do you find the limits to skim (mill) from a head gasket? of a specific model of car?
And can you just bring it to an engineering works to get done or where?

In my VERY LIMITED knowledge, I was told it could only be done by one guy in our town, that it would take a few weeks for him to get to it, and this is why I got a new "Unit" instead.

Merch

TequilaMockingBird wrote: »

In my VERY LIMITED knowledge, I was told it could only be done by one guy in our town, that it would take a few weeks for him to get to it, and this is why I got a new "Unit" instead.

No offence but I meant someone replying that was in the know sorry

I know what all the parts are, where they go, haven't done a job like that but, say I could, just dont have the machinery to do the job

Tom Slick

What's the story with head gasket failures nowadays?
I can remember when they were a pain in the proverbial (and anyone changing them would carry out any necessary machining) but neglect must be the main cause now.

TequilaMockingBird

TequilaMockingBird wrote: »

Could you link to that thread Rover (hiss), I can't find it, I know I posted AFTER the thread asking what to do with Anti-Freeze, and I asked why would the car be cutting out whilst idling? It would help me get the timeline in order.

Also, just to add to the joy, I have no receipts for ANYTHING. Not the car, nor the work done subsequently buy the seller. I'm right bright me..

Dunno what the hissing is about :P

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056106722
01Dec you asked about antifreeze, you hadn't any reason to think the car needed it, nor did you know where it went or where the coolant reservoir was

11Dec you posted about the heater not working and the car cutting out
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056117112
The day after you noticed the heater not working you had a peak at the coolant reservoir and it was just about dry. Presumably in the 10 days beore this someone pointed out where the reservoir was and it had the correct coolant level? (just a guess as you seemed interested in finding it and making sure the car had antifreeze ) Then the next day after a 15 minute spin you drove it until you got a burning smell, I would think this smell was the actual gasket melting

I would reckon that at some stage before the failure the temperature gauge on the dash started rising above it's normal point?

Esel

RoverJames wrote: »

DIfficulty starting coupled with oil in water could mellow be low compression due to the head not being 100 per cent, this shortly after a head gasket job .....

puzzled by 'mellow'?

Nissan doctor wrote: »

It sounds like there is something your mechanic is trying hide. To big a job for him to skim the gasket so he replaced the unit itself.

Skim the gasket? Not what you meant to say, surely?

TequilaMockingBird wrote: »

In my VERY LIMITED knowledge, I was told it could only be done by one guy in our town, that it would take a few weeks for him to get to it, and this is why I got a new "Unit" instead.

New 'unit' meaning new cylinder head? 'New' as in brand new, or new as in 'secondhand from a scrapyard'? If secondhand, it should have been tested/measured before being fitted.

andyseadog

Merch wrote: »

No offence but I meant someone replying that was in the know sorry

I know what all the parts are, where they go, haven't done a job like that but, say I could, just dont have the machinery to do the job

no offence either, but you dont seem to know what all the parts are or where they go. you asked how to find out how much you can skim from a head gasket. the head gets skimmed, the gasket is just a gasket.

most good machine shops should be able to look after skimming the head for you.

Mr.Boots

Could just be condensation building up in the oil from this cold weather...short trips would do this.
Check the level of the water carefully and see if your car is using any?

Merch

andyseadog wrote: »

no offence either, but you dont seem to know what all the parts are or where they go. you asked how to find out how much you can skim from a head gasket. the head gets skimmed, the gasket is just a gasket.

most good machine shops should be able to look after skimming the head for you.

It was late and a typo, I didnt mean the gasket. I just never had a head skimmed, I wondered where you would get that done. I presume by someone with a milling machine. most mechanics I have known or come across didn't have one. Also by how much?
I know where all the parts go, thats the easy bit, mostly I wanted to know how much would you skim off, where would you find the limits.

TequilaMockingBird

Mr.Boots wrote: »

Could just be condensation building up in the oil from this cold weather...short trips would do this.
Check the level of the water carefully and see if your car is using any?

Fingers crossed it's that. It has been woefully under driven lately. And when it is it can be sitting idling in traffic.

The mechanics/seller is a good drive away, so hopefully I get there tomorrow.

Thanks for all the suggestions, I'll update when I know what the story is.

Nissan doctor

Esel wrote: »

Skim the gasket? Not what you meant to say, surely?

That is what the OP said his mechanic told him.



@OP, the fact that your mechanic said the parts were 320 and he charged you 350 proves he is taking advantage of your lack of knowalage IMO.

€30 labour for removing/refitting a head and having it skimmed and pressure tested?:rolleyes:

Esel

Esel wrote: »

puzzled by mellow.

lol, was meant to be could well be, was on the phone, pressed wrong keys and left out a space.

TequilaMockingBird

Nissan doctor wrote: »

That is what the OP said his mechanic told him.



@OP, the fact that your mechanic said the parts were 320 and he charged you 350 proves he is taking advantage of your lack of knowalage IMO.

€30 labour for removing/refitting a head and having it skimmed and pressure tested?:rolleyes:

I know, but it was the dealer I bought it from who was fixing it. I rang a bit pissed off as it was supposed to be THE BEST CAR EVER, and I had already had to replace the exhaust so soon after buying it. So I rang him and said I had a quote from local garage for €400, he said he'd do it cheaper for me. He has a load of old Rovers at his yard so I probably got a recycled head gasket.

I don't know. It's a pain in the a*se. You live and learn, I should have got the service record, receipts for works etc. Next time.

As I said, he seems a nice bloke, so hopefully I'm not being ripped off and it's just a condensation thing.

Gary ITR

Rubbish posts deleted

Nissan doctor

TequilaMockingBird wrote: »

I know, but it was the dealer I bought it from who was fixing it. I rang a bit pissed off as it was supposed to be THE BEST CAR EVER, and I had already had to replace the exhaust so soon after buying it. So I rang him and said I had a quote from local garage for €400, he said he'd do it cheaper for me. He has a load of old Rovers at his yard so I probably got a recycled head gasket.

I don't know. It's a pain in the a*se. You live and learn, I should have got the service record, receipts for works etc. Next time.

As I said, he seems a nice bloke, so hopefully I'm not being ripped off and it's just a condensation thing.

You would want to hope it wasn't a reused head gasket. They are single use only.

Rovers are famous for head gasket failures amongst other things, its difficult to grasp that in these days of finding any info you want online, someone could buy a Rover blind, but as you said live and learn and to be honest, I think, from what you have been saying, if the head gasket has failed again, its your mechanic who is the problem, not the car.

Funny thing is, the first job waiting for me in the morning is a rover 25 with a failed head gasket:rolleyes:

TequilaMockingBird

Nissan doctor wrote: »

You would want to hope it wasn't a reused head gasket. They are single use only.

Rovers are famous for head gasket failures amongst other things, its difficult to grasp that in these days of finding any info you want online, someone could buy a Rover blind, but as you said live and learn and to be honest, I think, from what you have been saying, if the head gasket has failed again, its your mechanic who is the problem, not the car.

Funny thing is, the first job waiting for me in the morning is a rover 25 with a failed head gasket:rolleyes:

Well this "someone" did, and easy with the rolleyes please. It has already been established a haven't a clue.

Just about the temperature gauge, was the car driven with the gauge above normal temp ?

TequilaMockingBird

RoverJames wrote: »

Just about the temperature gauge, was the car driven with the gauge above normal temp ?

No it wasn't.

dr.fuzzenstein

TequilaMockingBird wrote: »

Excuse my lack of knowledge. I know nothing about cars unfortunately. It was explained to me as it being too big a job to "skim" the gasket, so the "unit" was replaced instead. I think. It's a different language to me I'm afraid.

That sounds like the head was replaced, because that could be the "unit" your mechanic is referring to.
But you wouldn't get a head for that money, so he could have thrown in a second hand one.
Anyways, the head AND block need to be skimmed if they're alloy because they can warp.

TequilaMockingBird

TequilaMockingBird wrote: »

No it wasn't.

Really?

Nissan doctor

TequilaMockingBird wrote: »

Well this "someone" did, and easy with the rolleyes please. It has already been established a haven't a clue.

The rolleyes were at the fact that I had another rover with a failed headgasket to do, nothing to do with you knowing anything about them.

bud1970

TequilaMockingBird wrote: »

I know, but it was the dealer I bought it from who was fixing it. I rang a bit pissed off as it was supposed to be THE BEST CAR EVER, and I had already had to replace the exhaust so soon after buying it. So I rang him and said I had a quote from local garage for €400, he said he'd do it cheaper for me. He has a load of old Rovers at his yard so I probably got a recycled head gasket.

I don't know. It's a pain in the a*se. You live and learn, I should have got the service record, receipts for works etc. Next time.

As I said, he seems a nice bloke, so hopefully I'm not being ripped off and it's just a condensation thing.

a rover???? sorry mate, but this cowboy is taking you for a ride. and as for the comment that he was the only one who could do it, well thats bs as well!! if i was you i'd get rid of this p.o.s while you still can and buy a decent car!!! once you start chucking cash at rovers it never ends... sorry to be so damn negative, chap but thats the way i see it.......

bryaner

Wet liner machine as far as I can remember, liners could need shiming and head bolts are a deffo for replacing as they run straight trough the block to the sump.

TequilaMockingBird

Just to make the point here, I know nothing about cars, I got a bloke who does to look for out for one for me, he saw the Rover, test drove it, said in his opinion it was a good buy. I didn't buy it for the pretty colour.