All Irish public schools to be Gaelscoils

GizAGoOfYerGee

The Irish curriculum is not working - We all know that, evident to the fact that the majority of us here can't speak it.

But a lot of Irish people want to be able to speak it, as evident in the question 'Can you speak Irish' in the 2008 census. ~40% said yes? Bullsh!t They want to be able to speak it, but can't.

And what about the other 60% that answered honestly? Do they want to speak Irish?

There is obviously a huge demand for Irish-speaking schools, but there are simply not enough Gaelscoils to meet demand.

Four of my nephews were denied access to Gaeilscoils because their parents could not speak Irish. That is unfare, but I can understand why they were rejected.

A lot of money has been funneled into Irish language organisations that are really doing nothing to increase the amount of Irish speakers.

The only solution to keep Irish alive is to make all Irish public schools 'Gaeilscoils'. They should have done this when the Irish Free State was born.

I didn't go to a Gaeilscoil, and I hated Irish in school, but I have many friends that did go to Gaelscoils, and they do actually use Irish between eachother, be it in the pub, or on Facebook, or where ever. In general, they are far more clued in and supportive of Irish culture than people like us that went to English-speaking schools.

The question is: Should the Irish goverment aim to make all Irish public schools, both primary and secondary, Irish-speaking Gaelscoils?

MrStuffins

Thread title is misleading

BUt I see your point. I would like to be able to speak irish, but I hated it in school and it simply is not taught properly.

I plan to put my kids into Gaelscoils to give them that head start and the opportunity to learn Irish.

LordSutch

What if we don't want our children to be taught Irish

I would like my son to be able to speak German or French, I would like Irish to be optional.

GLaDOS

GizAGoOfYerGee wrote: »

There is obviously a huge demand for Irish-speaking schools, but there are simply not enough Gaelscoils to meet demand.

Don't believe that. Only a handful of my friends went to a Gaelscoil, the rest couldn't give crap that they didn't go to one.

johnmcdnl

what about the option to increase spending to increase the numbers of gaelscoileanna but not to have all schools gaelscoileanna ever and leave english language schools as an option for parents as well

phasers

The answer is to make the Secondary school curriculum more like French and German, in my 5 years of secondary school I learned more French than 14 years worth of Irish. Forcing people to learn it is not the way to go. Making students learn off fcuking novels and poems is retarded.

I actually think primary school Irish is taught quite well.

paky

went to a gaelscoil myself. in all honesty, i thought it was a complete waste of time. havent used the language since i left. but must say gaelscoil teachers are very well educated

GTE

The poll options are pretty one sided.

Improve Irish standards and hit others,
Leave it at the same low standard,
Cut the standard altogether,
Don't care.


Id say try and build the language in other ways. Improve the teaching methods and subject interest. Make it more 50/50 with English from day one but without hampering English. The last thing I would want is to have the quality of English fall even more in this countries education system.

I'd like to know Irish but at the end of the day English is more important in my opinion.

Cookie_Monster

No, infact stop wasting resources on it altogether and teach a useful world language that may do all of our emigrating youngsters some good when they leave

carfiosaoorl

I voted for it but then I had a think about it, where are we going to get all of the Irish speaking teachers?

darragh16

Didn't they change the course, so that Oral accounts for 50% of the overall mark?

GizAGoOfYerGee

ScienceNerd wrote: »

Don't believe that. Only a handful of my friends went to a Gaelscoil, the rest couldn't give crap that they didn't go to one.

You don't believe that? Fare enough. I think you will find thousands of parents that want their children to be taught in Irish, but are rejected.

Are you actually a parent?

My sisters wanted nothing more but to send their kids to Irish schools. I speak Irish and I tried to get my nephews into Irish school, but they were refused because their parents can't speak Irish.

You obviously know nothing about demand for Irish schools.

Euro_Kraut

I think its a good idea OP! When children are exposed to second langauges consitently and at an early age it makes it easier to pick up other langagues as they grow up. This is called 'Immersion Teaching' and is all the rage is posh schools here in Switzerland.

What is crucial though is that there starts to be a focus on teaching students how to learn languages. As it stands languages are thrown at students and some of them pick it up, but the majority don't. Unfortunately the subject is generally thought by those who are themselves gifted in languages and don't understand why students need a load more support than are currently getting.

When have an awful habit of doing thing half-arsed in Ireland. Either we decide we want to promote Irish and throw ourselves into into completely by implementation radical polices like you suggest or we decide to let it die completely.

jeepers101

And where are they going to get Irish speaking teachers to populate every public school in the country?

GTE

GizAGoOfYerGee wrote: »

You don't believe that? Fare enough. I think you will find thousands of parents that want their children to be taught in Irish, but are rejected.

Are you actually a parent?

My sisters wanted nothing more but to send their kids to Irish schools. I speak Irish and I tried to get my nephews into Irish school, but they were refused because their parents can't speak Irish.

You obviously know nothing about demand for Irish schools.

For Gods sake, your attitude that what you and your sisters think is what the rest of the island thinks ruins the threads purpose.

If you want to have a reasoned and balanced debate then please do so but posts that set out to rubbish peoples opinions just because they disagree with your stance are utter crap.

GizAGoOfYerGee

GizAGoOfYerGee wrote: »

You obviously know nothing about demand for Irish schools.

And you do based on a couple of sisters?


edit: and I'd be more concerned that they shouldn't be catholic schools, whatever about hte language

KeithAFC

Perhaps they could take the money from the Irish language and use it to create jobs for unemployed people instead?

Namlub

And all this is based on the assumption that the 60% of people who said that they couldn't speak Irish in that poll want to be able to speak Irish? And anyone who doesn't want to learn Irish shouldn't be entitled to free education? Cool plan bro.

Wolfe Tone

My Kids will be going to a Gaelscoil.

gcgirl

It's alright if you child does not have any learning problems or speech & language problems.

byhookorbycrook

My mother, aged 88 did part of her National school through Irish. I teach in a Gaelscoil, our students also learn German in 5th and 6th. I don't know that every school would work as a Gaelscoil, I think you have to offer choice.

Dravokivich

if this was to come in whenever i have kids...

...i'd never be able to help them with their homework / course work...

how would i as a be parent be able to hold responsibilty of their studying at home... if i didnt know what exactly what they were doing...

byhookorbycrook

gcgirl wrote: »

It's alright if you child does not have any learning problems or speech & language problems.

Many children with learning difficulties do extremely well in Gaelscoileanna.

GLaDOS

GizAGoOfYerGee wrote: »

You don't believe that? Fare enough. I think you will find thousands of parents that want their children to be taught in Irish, but are rejected.

Are you actually a parent?

My sisters wanted nothing more but to send their kids to Irish schools. I speak Irish and I tried to get my nephews into Irish school, but they were refused because their parents can't speak Irish.

You obviously know nothing about demand for Irish schools.

I've just finished school a few years ago and I know that the majority of students I know couldn't care less about speaking Irish. It's not just about what parents want.

GizAGoOfYerGee

bluewolf wrote: »

And you do based on a couple of sisters?

Wow, you don't know the half of it. Not only have my nephews been refused, but another 6 children of my paternal Uncle. My Uncle is pro-Irish and wanted to send his children to an Irish school. Only ONE got it. The rest are in English schools. Why? Because my uncle and auntie can't speak Irish.

More for you. A very dear female freind of mine has a 4 year old girl. She was refused from a Gaelscoil because her mother (my dear friend) can't speak Irish.

I have many more stories for you if you'd like to hear them, though it seems to me that you only want to hear anti-Irish stories. Am I right? I am right

mikemac

The poll has swung, the 2050 option was well in the lead just a few minutes ago

strobe

feelingstressed wrote: »

The poll has swung, the 2050 option was well in the lead just a few minutes ago

Stupid people always vote fastest in polls.

MultiUmm

GizAGoOfYerGee wrote: »

Four of my nephews were denied access to Gaeilscoils because their parents could not speak Irish. That is unfare, but I can understand why they were rejected.

Was this because they'd find it difficult to pick up Irish after other children in the class already had some knowledge of it from speaking it at home? If not that just sounds extremely elitist, although I'm assuming it's for reasons of practicality.

byhookorbycrook

Gaelscoileanna tend to be in big demand, we are generally very oversubscribed each year. I don't agree with an enrolement policy that favours parents with a certain standard of Irish,unfair imho.

Pace2008

You're neglecting to mention, or have not considered, one of the main reasons Gaelsocils are so popular:

They are sparsely attended by foreign nationals and members of the working class, so many middle-class parents who'd rather their children not rub shoulders with these sorts look to send them there.

Marcus.Aurelius

Nice to see the vote swing against the Gaelscoils, at least the next generation of children may be able to spend their time learning something more useful, like darts.

Or something actually useful.

GizAGoOfYerGee

GizAGoOfYerGee wrote: »

Wow, you don't know the half of it.

Since I don't know you, I'm not psychic, and you only mentioned a couple of sisters, yes you're right, I don't.
Don't let that stop you sounding smug!

I have many more stories for you if you'd like to hear them, though it seems to me that you only want to hear anti-Irish stories. Am I right? I am right

Take the complex elsewhere :rolleyes:

Namlub

GizAGoOfYerGee wrote: »

Wow, you don't know the half of it. Not only have my nephews been refused, but another 6 children of my paternal Uncle. My Uncle is pro-Irish and wanted to send his children to an Irish school. Only ONE got it. The rest are in English schools. Why? Because my uncle and auntie can't speak Irish.

More for you. A very dear female freind of mine has a 4 year old girl. She was refused from a Gaelscoil because her mother (my dear friend) can't speak Irish.

I have many more stories for you if you'd like to hear them, though it seems to me that you only want to hear anti-Irish stories. Am I right? I am right

The plural of anecdote isn't data.

mikemac

Pace2008 wrote: »

They are sparsely attended by foreign nationals and members of the working class,

Maybe but one of the best known in Dublin is Gaelscoil Bhaile Munna.

Constantly in the news and for good news stories too

GizAGoOfYerGee

MultiUmm wrote: »

Was this because they'd find it difficult to pick up Irish after other children in the class already had some knowledge of it from speaking it at home? If not that just sounds extremely elitist, although I'm assuming it's for reasons of practicality.

No, not at all. It's because there is a huge demand for Irish schools, and if the parents don't speak Irish, your child will not get it.

I am fluent and have tried to get my nephews/nieces and freinds' kids in to various Irish schools. Each time, the kids are refused because their parents don't speak Irish.

This is a sure indication that there is a demand for Irish schools, but not enough Irish schools to meet it.

A lot of posters here wish to belittle any demand for Irish. Sad but true.

If you don't speak Irish but want your child to go to an Irish school, please PM me.

GLaDOS

GizAGoOfYerGee wrote: »

This is a sure indication that there is a demand for Irish schools, but not enough Irish schools to meet it.

Supply not meeting demand doesn't mean the demand itself is necessarily huge. Do you really think the people who want to send their kids to a gaelscoil outnumber the number of people who don't, or don't care? Making all schools gaelscoils will rule out jobs for hundreds of teachers because the don't speak Irish.

On another note patents think it is a great idea sending kids to an Irish school, it is a proper head fcuk after learning science or business in Irish and then having to learn all the new English terms at 18 or 19 in college.

If you want to learn it, do it in your own time.

Wondered about that myself, didn't know if it was a big problem though, don't know anyone from a gaelscoil who went into anything like that

Euro_Kraut

Pace2008 wrote: »

You're neglecting to mention, or have not considered, one of the main reasons Gaelsocils are so popular:

They are sparsely attended by foreign nationals and members of the working class, so many middle-class parents who'd rather their children not rub shoulders with these sorts look to send them there.

I'm not sure that's true. I think its a myth invented by the anti-Irish brigade (e.g. Kevin Myers) to undermine the success of the Gaelscoil movement. I now that was not a consideration for my nephews. Their Dad tells me that 50% of the kids in the Gaelscoil have at least one parent that is not Irish.

In any event parents who genuinely though like this would just send their kids to fee paying private schools.

dizzywizlw

Want to get out of recession? How about we teach kids German,Spanish,French or Chinese from a young age instead of wasting time on Irish? The German workforce alone is losing over 100k people a year to retirement, how many are emigrating from Ireland again?:rolleyes:


My ancestors didn't come to this country and steal the native peoples land to be forced to learn their language.

Euro_Kraut

dizzywizlw wrote: »

Want to get out of recession? How about we teach kids German,Spanish,French or Chinese from a young age instead of wasting time on Irish?

You present a false choice. Learning Irish does not diminish your ability to learn German - I should know! In fact tuition in a second language increase the ability to pick up other languages.

scientific1982

Learning irish doesnt have to be about practicality, its an important part of our cultural identity. One of the only reasons for tourism into this country is Irish culture, of which the Irish language is a large part. Its also good for kids to become comfortable learning different languages.

Thank fvuk for the nationalist community in the North and more enlightened parents.

dizzywizlw

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

You present a false choice. Learning Irish does not diminish your ability to learn German - I should know! In fact tuition in a second language increase the ability to pick up other languages.

Dividing a finite amount of resources among subjects is not a false choice. If the resources used on Irish were put into so called 'World Languages' it would provide our nation with flexibility IMO and factually.

I couldn't agree more, of course the Languages AFAIK the hypothesis only holds true if the languages come from the same family.

GizAGoOfYerGee

bluewolf wrote: »

Take the complex elsewhere :rolleyes:

Sorry, what? What has that to do with my original reply?

I gave your post a good answer. You replied:

Take the complex elsewhere

Grow up and get real, bluewolf. :D:D

Earthhorse

I'd like to see Irish removed from the Constitution as one of our primary languages. I have no problem with people wanting to preserve, learn and spread knowledge of the language, indeed, I wish them well, but it's place in the Constitution is a distraction from becoming a nation with a high percentage of bi-lingual natives, which holds us back both culturally and economically.

Namlub

scientific1982 wrote: »

Thank fvuk for the nationalist community in the North and more enlightened parents.

:rolleyes:
More enlightened parents? Really?

DarkJager

I'd prefer my kids (if I ever have any) to learn a more functional language like German or French, one that can actually be used in business. Its all well and good having wishful thinking that everyone in the country would speak the native tounge but the fact is it is practically a dead language at this stage. The way it has been taught in school for the past decades has just made its students hate it. I did it for the majority of my school days, eventually dropping it before the LC, but I can honestly not remember more than 4 words of it.

I hated the teachers that gave the lessons, because they were also bored to tears just having to give them. I hated the fact that as a language it was falling over itself in its complexity (different dialects, fada this and that, etc). I knew, even then, that it was something that would serve absolutley no purpose to me in my future and was simply making me sit through something I had no interest at all in for an hour each day.

For the nostalgists, I'm sure they can arrange to learn it or for their children to have lessons in it. I don't think that taxpayers should foot the bill to revive a language that is in all fairness, on its death bed.

dizzywizlw

scientific1982 wrote: »

Learning irish doesnt have to be about practicality, its an important part of our cultural identity. One of the only reasons for tourism into this country is Irish culture, of which the Irish language is a large part. Its also good for kids to become comfortable learning different languages.

Thank fvuk for the nationalist community in the North and more enlightened parents.

I take it that you believe 'culture' to be static and historical and not something which evolves over time?

Is there anything to be said by 'de-educationalising' Irish and promoting/funding growth through NGOs. Certainly Tourists don't come to Ireland for the general standard of Irish. Not to mention that the FDI for foreign languages may offset the Tourism loss

byhookorbycrook

Pace2008 wrote: »

You're neglecting to mention, or have not considered, one of the main reasons Gaelsocils are so popular:

They are sparsely attended by foreign nationals and members of the working class, so many middle-class parents who'd rather their children not rub shoulders with these sorts look to send them there.

Might be true in some leafy Dublin suburbs, but certainly not around the country.

sdanseo

We all know by now that the general majority here are anti-Irish folk. Barely any point even attempting to promote gaeilge here tbh.

scientific1982

Namlub wrote: »

:rolleyes:
More enlightened parents? Really?

Yes really. Enlightened would be one word. If I wanted to be snobby about it, I would have said cultured.

Solair

It's one thing to have Irish as a compulsory subject, but the Irish education system is bad enough without forcing children to do other subjects through what is a 2nd language.

You would totally disadvantage people who are not particularly strong at languages and undermine their ability to perform in non-language orientated subjects.

Not only that, you'd also seriously restrict the pool of people available to teach. How would you propose to provide that number of fluent Irish speaking teachers?

Many science, commerce, english, french, etc graduates would be unable to teach in secondary school as it's unlikely that they'd have fluent Irish!

Can we not just look at perhaps making the Irish language programme a bit more fun and modern. For example, there are all sorts of techniques which could be drawn from various EFL (English as a Foreign Language) programmes etc that could be applied to teaching Gaeilge!

Teachers just need to think outside the box and look at why they're having difficulty teaching the language. More and more compulsion is just going to undermine Irish even further. It's all stick and no carrot!

Namlub

scientific1982 wrote: »

Yes really. Enlightened would be one word. If I wanted to be snobby about it, I would have said cultured.

And if I wanted to be blunt about I'd have said you're laughably ignorant.