Insurance

Paudie_Gtst

Hi,
I have recently bought an R32 Nissan Skyline, I am 21 and I am not a boy racer nor do I speed, I always obey the rules of the road, I am not driving the car it is parked at my garage and has 6 months tax and 2 years NCT, I have 3 years no claims bonus and I have 0 penalty points.

I have phoned Quinn direct they have told me that I can insure another car and drive this car as long as it has Valid tax and NCT and that car does not need to be insured by another party, the car must not be in my name and can only be driven with the owners consent. they also told me there is no restrictions on the car (Market price, High Litre, how many miles it can be driven per week) to be covered, Is there any holes in this method That I am missing?

Please let me know

I am currently NOT driving this car
Any negative assumptions WILL be ignored

Thank you

Atomic Pineapple

There is a hole yes, the car your insured in must be your daily driver, the third party extension is not for use to be insured permanently on a different car.

Members of the Gardai have confirmed they are now targeting this loophole and impounding cars that are insured this way but being used as the insureds daily driver.

If you are having trouble getting insurance I recommend you contact the IIF or the insurance ombudsman for guidance rather than trying to abuse a loophole.

si_guru

What you are doing is called "fronting"... expect the insurance company to cancel your policy when they find out. The Gardai take a dim of this too, they would probably prosecute you for having no insurance.

Paudie_Gtst

draffodx wrote: »

the car your insured in must be your daily driver, the third party extension is not for use to be insured permanently on a different car.

Where does it say you can't?
If so what is the definition of "daily driver" how many hours can you drive the car before it is claimed to being permanently used?

Alanstrainor

Thread closed as the original post has been deleted. If you want it reopened PM me and i'll put back the original post. Otherwise it stays closed. Deleting your post isn't on.

Paudie_Gtst wrote: »

Where does it say you can't?
If so what is the definition of "daily driver" how many hours can you drive the car before it is claimed to being permanently used?

JerCotter7

What about failure to display insurance disc? Or is that just tax. They can do you for not showing the disc and for not having the tax.

The car will be insured 3rd party only when you are driving it. If you park it up and get out it's not insured at all, so if it goes on fire etc the "owner" won't have any insurance for it. I believe a car on public road etc must be insured. Driving a high powered car like that with no insurance disc will attract a good deal of attention, especially if you are young. Every checkpoint will be a potential ordeal.

Paudie_Gtst

JerCotter7 wrote: »

What about failure to display insurance disc? Or is that just tax. They can do you for not showing the disc and for not having the tax.

The car is taxed, yes i understand that, but they told me the car does not have to be insured at all?

Paudie_Gtst

Paudie_Gtst wrote: »

The car is taxed, yes i understand that, but they told me the car does not have to be insured at all?

They told you you will be insured 3rd party while driving it regardless of it being otherwise insured or not. The car does need to be insured while in a public place, so once you are in it that's fine, park it up and get out and the car is not insured.

JerCotter7

Paudie_Gtst wrote: »

The car is taxed, yes i understand that, but they told me the car does not have to be insured at all?

Yea it doesn't have to be insured. But as James said checkpoints will take about ages to get through every time.

Paudie_Gtst

RoverJames wrote: »

I believe a car on public road etc must be insured.

Thats what I thought? Why would they say you can drive the car with no insurance on it only NCT and Tax?

JerCotter7

Paudie_Gtst wrote: »

Thats what I thought? Why would they say you can drive the car with no insurance on it only NCT and Tax?

It is insured once it has tax and NCT. Policy from your DD insures it once you are in it.

Paudie_Gtst

Paudie_Gtst wrote: »

Thats what I thought? Why would they say you can drive the car with no insurance on it only NCT and Tax?

Because you can
As far as they are concerned while you are driving the car you are insured 3rd party, they don't care that the actual car is not otherwise insured, but the car not being insured when you are not in it is a potential big issue should certain things happen. Regardless of things happening an uninsured vehicle cannot be in a public place.

challengemaster

If you carry the insurance cert around in the skyline at all times you're driving it, you'll be alright. Stick it in place of the insurance disc

Also yes, with Quinn the third party extension allows you to drive any car that has NCT/Tax but is also uninsured. Have used it a few times myself, never had to try explain the situation to a traffic corps member though. Considering how badly educated some of them can be, I'd assume it could be a nightmare.

challengemaster

challengemaster wrote: »

Considering how badly educated some of them can be, I'd assume it could be a nightmare.

That's a tad narrow minded of you, you mustn't be well educated in respect for others coming out with sh1t like that.

Paudie_Gtst

RoverJames wrote: »

Because you can
As far as they are concerned while you are driving the car you are insured 3rd party, they don't care that the actual car is not otherwise insured, but the car not being insured when you are not in it is a potential big issue should certain things happen. Regardless of things happening an uninsured vehicle cannot be in a public place.

I see, so it would be illegal to park the car in a public place other than my property?

challengemaster

Respect is earned, but that's another arguement.

My point is, I've heard more than enough issues with things when they're black and white, getting into grey areas isn't going to improve things.

Stheno

RoverJames wrote: »

The car will be insured 3rd party only when you are driving it. If you park it up and get out it's not insured at all, so if it goes on fire etc the "owner" won't have any insurance for it. I believe a car on public road etc must be insured. Driving a high powered car like that with no insurance disc will attract a good deal of attention, especially if you are young. Every checkpoint will be a potential ordeal.

Just being curious here, but given that the third party cover is to insure the driver who does not own the car, would the fire/theft/third party element of the owner not apply when the car was parked up and not being driven by a non owner? Genuinely being curious, not having a swipe at you at all

Paudie_Gtst

Paudie_Gtst wrote: »

I see, so it would be illegal to park the car in a public place other than my property?

Yep. Also strictly speaking when you go to a service station to pay for petrol etc the car will also be uninsured while you are out of it.

challengemaster

Stheno wrote: »

Just being curious here, but given that the third party cover is to insure the driver who does not own the car, would the fire/theft/third party element of the owner not apply when the car was parked up and not being driven by a non owner? Genuinely being curious, not having a swipe at you at all

We're discussing a situation where the car is NOT insured by it's owner, so there is no actual insurance policy associated with the car

Stheno

challengemaster wrote: »

We're discussing a situation where the car is NOT insured by it's owner, so there is no actual insurance policy associated with the car

DUH! Had a brainfart reading the OP

Thanks for that!

What the Garda hater said :pac:

Paudie_Gtst

RoverJames wrote: »

Yep. Also strictly speaking when you go to a service station to pay for petrol etc the car will also be uninsured while you are out of it.

So if god forbid a crash occurred in a public place in which my parked car was hit by another car, could the owner be prosecuted due to the car being illegally parked uninsured?

And would the penalty for having a car parked with no insurance in a public place be as much as driving with no insurance?

Stheno

The only situation you could feasibly be confident of that being ok would be if you were to pick up a new car prior to transfer of ownership and drive it straight home?

Certainly wouldn't apply day to day unless you never parked in a public place.

Never knew that scenario existed ref the sort of cover being discussed, amazing what you can learn on here

Stheno

Paudie_Gtst wrote: »

So if god forbid a crash occurred in a public place in which my parked car was hit by another car, could the owner be prosecuted due to the car being illegally parked uninsured?

From what the lads are saying yes. Even worse, imagine if you forgot to put the handbrake on, or it suffered a failure and you damaged another car!

And would the penalty for having a car parked with no insurance in a public place be as much as driving with no insurance?

Yep the car is on a public road/area with no insurance. (IMO)

challengemaster

Just make sure wherever you're driving to/from has a multistory garage or private car park...


edit: also, on a side-note, it's possibly worth a mention that with third party extension, your OWN car that is insured cannot be being driven at the same time. An example being, you and your mate cannot jump into eachothers cars for a bit...

Paudie_Gtst

Paudie_Gtst wrote: »

So if god forbid a crash occurred in a public place in which my parked car was hit by another car, could the owner be prosecuted due to the car being illegally parked uninsured?

And would the penalty for having a car parked with no insurance in a public place be as much as driving with no insurance?

I dunno, the car was in a public place uninsured so I would think yes. I don't know what the penalties would be. Wouldn't be as bad as actually driving without insurance anyway. Wouldn't like to be the owner if the car went on fire while parked up.

Stheno

RoverJames wrote: »

I dunno, the car was in a public place uninsured so I would think yes. I don't know what the penalties would be. Wouldn't be as bad as actually driving without insurance anyway. Wouldn't like to be the owner if the car went on fire while parked up.

Going by the posts on here where people get done for parking in a public place with no tax, and face the same penalties, potentially it might be the same?

And just imagine the guard having a bad day who spots said uninsured car, and decides to lie in wait! Or use the CCTV to lie in wait!

Paudie_Gtst

Stheno wrote: »

The only situation you could feasibly be confident of that being ok would be if you were to pick up a new car prior to transfer of ownership and drive it straight home?

Do you mean get another car? (Apologies if I read you wrong)

If I could have the owner of the car to insure the skyline themselves would this bypass the illegally parked car issue?

bladebrew

im lost!

will quinn not insure you on the skyline?

Paudie_Gtst

Paudie_Gtst wrote: »

If I could have the owner of the car to insure the skyline themselves would this bypass the illegally parked car issue?

Yep.
But if they have another car it may cost a fair few €€€s.

Of course, as you have bought the car and are the owner and will only be transferring ownership to enable you to drive it using your 3rd party extension facility of your own insurance policy it is more or less fraud.
(let the games begin)

Paudie_Gtst

challengemaster wrote: »

edit: also, on a side-note, it's possibly worth a mention that with third party extension, your OWN car that is insured cannot be being driven at the same time. An example being, you and your mate cannot jump into eachothers cars for a bit...

So when I drive the skyline, the car that I am currently insured on is not insured? or that nobody is entitled to drive it with their open drive policy?

Stheno

Paudie_Gtst wrote: »

So when I drive the skyline, the car that I am currently insured on is not insured? or that nobody is entitled to drive it with their open drive policy?

Not insured on your policy at all imo

Paudie_Gtst

RoverJames wrote: »

Yep.
But if they have another car it may cost a fair few €€€s.

Yeah they have another car 750 to be insured for the year with their no claims bonus not accounted for

Paudie_Gtst

Paudie_Gtst wrote: »

So when I drive the skyline, the car that I am currently insured on is not insured? or that nobody is entitled to drive it with their open drive policy?

Your own car will still be insured. It would only get potentially sh1tty if you were driving the Slyline and the "owner" of the Slyline were driving your car under their 3rd party extension and ye crashed into each other :pac:

Paudie_Gtst

Stheno wrote: »

Not insured on your policy at all imo

So the minute I sit into the skyline, my other car is parked illegally not insured?

Stheno

RoverJames wrote: »

Your own car will still be insured. It would only get potentially sh1tty if you were driving the Slyline and the "owner" of the Slyline were driving your car under their 3rd party extension and ye crashed into each other :pac:

Is there not an exclusion clause which will only cover one car/claim under the policy at the time/date? That's what I was thinking from reading mine when I renewed, I can open drive whatever, but will abdicate the insurance on mine if I do.

Stheno

Paudie_Gtst wrote: »

So the minute I sit into the skyline, my other car is parked illegally not insured?

Well it's not insured unless you are driving it as per the parking facts, you are ok on private property

I'm getting a terrible sense of forboding that you are planning on having a rip roaring time in that Skyline!

challengemaster

RoverJames wrote: »

Your own car will still be insured. It would only get potentially sh1tty if you were driving the Slyline and the "owner" of the Slyline were driving your car under their 3rd party extension and ye crashed into each other :pac:

It's usually a condition of TPE that your own car can't be on the roads at the same time...

Paudie_Gtst wrote: »

So the minute I sit into the skyline, my other car is parked illegally not insured?

Your own car will still be insured, but cannot be driven due to third party extension clauses

challengemaster

challengemaster wrote: »

It's usually a condition of TPE that your own car can't be on the roads at the same time...

So once you don't smack into it in the other yoke or have crashes the same time everyone is happy

Stheno

RoverJames wrote: »

So once you don't smack into it in the other yoke or have crashes the same time everyone is happy

True, but would you want to take that chance? Just admit to a brain fart!

Technically the driver of the OP's car would be better off at any checkpoint tho!

Stheno

Stheno wrote: »

True, but would you want to take that chance? Just admit to a brain fart!

Technically the driver of the OP's car would be better off at any checkpoint tho!

I have never encountered the clause where my car can't be driven while I am off driving someone else's to be honest. I would think it only applies to comprehensive policies, which I don't have

Paudie_Gtst

Stheno wrote: »

Well it's not insured unless you are driving it as per the parking facts, you are ok on private property

So if I am driving the skyline, does that mean that the car that I am insured on is uninsured/Park illegally uninsured?

Stheno

RoverJames wrote: »

I have never encountered the clause where my car can't be driven while I am off driving someone else's to be honest. I would think it only applies to comprehensive policies, which I don't have

My policy is fully comp, it's about a tenner more expensive than tfp&t (well the difference is negligable) which explains that!

Paudie_Gtst wrote: »

So if I am driving the skyline, does that mean that the car that I am insured on is uninsured/Park illegally uninsured?

If you have a Third Party Exclusion on your policy, and you are driving the Third Party i.e. the Skyline car, then your car will be insured where it is parked, but not whilst driving on the road, as TPE means that only one vehicle can be driven and be covered by the policy at any one time.

Stheno

Stheno wrote: »

My policy is fully comp, it's about a tenner more expensive than tfp&t (well the difference is negligable) which explains that!



If you have a Third Party Exclusion on your policy, and you are driving the Third Party i.e. the Skyline car, then your car will be insured where it is parked, but not whilst driving on the road, as TPE means that only one vehicle can be driven and be covered by the policy at any one time.

Whoever is driving the car will have their own insurance but the car itself won't be covered.

Comp always seemed to be about 20% dearer for me, I only drive cheap yokes so see it as a pure waste as I wouldn't see myself availing of the pros.

Paudie_Gtst

Stheno wrote: »

If you have a Third Party Exclusion on your policy, and you are driving the Third Party i.e. the Skyline car, then your car will be insured where it is parked, but not whilst driving on the road, as TPE means that only one vehicle can be driven and be covered by the policy at any one time.

I see, so that means the car I am currently insured on (Peugeot) is still covered when parked while I drive the skyline, and it would be an insurance clause if I were to crash into the Peugeot with the skyline?

Stheno

Paudie_Gtst wrote: »

I see, so that means the car I am currently insured on (Peugeot) is still covered when parked while I drive the skyline, and it would be an insurance clause if I were to crash into the Peugeot with the skyline?

Yes if you have a policy like mine which has a TPE. In that instance, you'd have no cover on either car.

challengemaster

Basically the Pug is grand so long as it's parked, not being driven...

In the end though, you'll be better off just insuring the skyline... If you're having trouble getting the skyline insured, head over to skylineownersforum and theres plenty of people with skylines insured with Quinn who will happily give you their policy numbers to quote back at Quinn when they say "We don't insure these vehicles"

Stheno

RoverJames wrote: »

Whoever is driving the car will have their own insurance but the car itself won't be covered.

Comp always seemed to be about 20% dearer for me, I only drive cheap yokes so see it as a pure waste as I wouldn't see myself availing of the pros.

I drive a cheap yoke, but benefit from the woman clause (sorry, not being smart, adding me to the bf's policy reduces his, adding him to mine increases it!)

It was the car cover I was thinking of the driver should be covered under third party for their actions, but with TPE on mine, my understanding is that if you were unfortunate enough to be caught with both cars on the road and in a crash you'll invalidate the insurance.

Completely O/T I was thinking the other day after a chat with my mechanic who was fixing up some fancy 08/09 cars about getting a car that was less than 7 years old. I'm not sure I could cope with all the fancy smancy *has to be fixed in a main dealers* stuff new cars have, I reckon it shall be older, well proven, and most problems ironed out cars for me for most of my life

Stheno

challengemaster wrote: »

Basically the Pug is grand so long as it's parked, not being driven...

In the end though, you'll be better off just insuring the skyline... If you're having trouble getting the skyline insured, head over to skylineownersforum and theres plenty of people with skylines insured with Quinn who will happily give you their policy numbers to quote back at Quinn when they say "We don't insure these vehicles"

From other posts on here it might be worth trying chill.ie as well (Not sure about age restrictions)

I agree with challengemaster that you should take the action above, at the very least, if you hit a checkpoint you'll get through it far more easily, you've a full licence, 3 years NCB etc, at your age paying up and building up an NCB on a higher spec car than normal will only stand to you insurance wise imo. Sucks financially, but you just have to deal with it one way or another,and imo the legal route is the best.

Paudie_Gtst

Thank you everyone for all of the positive and constructive comments on this thread it has given me a clearer view on how to go about insuring this car

Thank you