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CAR ENGINE RUNNING TO HEAT UP IN FROST, THEN LOCK CAR WITH SPARE SET OF KEYS

  • 21-01-2011 11:31am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 373 ✭✭


    Over the last cold month I have been turning the car on for 15 mins before I set off to work, I watch the car through the window as I have the brekky. I drive a Saab 93 and was wondering if I locked the car with the spare key set while the engine was running would it initiate the car alarm/immobiliser?. I would be fearful of opportunists robbing cars in the cold weather with cars left running.A car stolen with keys in the ignition offers no insurance cover from your provider. CURIOUS.:)


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,062 ✭✭✭cjt156


    It should initiate the alarm but not the immobiliser; as the engine is already running. Both our cars do this; alarm/central locking is independent of immobiliser circuit.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 90 ✭✭Gabbo57


    Ha ha I wonder how many people do this. I'm always doing it. I can never relax though. I kind of just stare out the window dripping corn flakes all over me :cool:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 51,360 ✭✭✭✭bazz26


    Once the key is in the ignition and car started I would assume the immobiliser has been disarmed and another key will not lock the doors.

    Incidently I had to borrow a relative's Honda Civic before Christmas during the really cold spell. Went out one morning, left it running to defrost it, came back 5 mins later to find it had locked itself with the engine still running, heater on full blast and had a full tank of petrol. Had to contact the owner, get them to come out to my house via taxi with the spare key. Cost me a €20 taxi fair and almost a quarter tank of petrol. Inside of the car was like a sauna too.


  • Posts: 23,339 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Why not just clear the screen, hop in, start up and drive off, we're not in Siberia ;) Not good for an engine is idling from cold for 15mins.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 554 ✭✭✭barryfitz


    he he, The ignition barrell is so knackered on my car that you can start it and take they key out with the engine runing, lock it, etc.......... but no one would rob my car anyway


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,313 ✭✭✭Mr.Boots


    No idea why you would need to do this....its not THAT cold.
    Try you spare key maybe.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,178 ✭✭✭✭NothingMan


    It may not be siberia but I left my car running, went in to get warm water and defrosted the screen, left the wipers on, returned the jug to the house and came back to refrozen windows. It's cold enough!

    I don't have a spare key for my car so I don't have that option op.

    On a side note, anyone know a cheaper way to get a fully functional replacement key for a bmw?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38 tezzy_v2


    RoverJames wrote: »
    Not good for an engine is idling from cold for 15mins.

    Why's that? I would have thought 10-15 mins would be the perfect time to warm a car up since the engine is close to peak operating temperature before you set off


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,313 ✭✭✭Mr.Boots


    NothingMan wrote: »
    It may not be siberia but I left my car running, went in to get warm water and defrosted the screen, left the wipers on, returned the jug to the house and came back to refrozen windows. It's cold enough!

    I don't have a spare key for my car so I don't have that option op.

    On a side note, anyone know a cheaper way to get a fully functional replacement key for a bmw?


    de_icer.jpg


  • Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,631 ✭✭✭✭antodeco


    tezzy_v2 wrote: »
    Why's that? I would have thought 10-15 mins would be the perfect time to warm a car up since the engine is close to peak operating temperature before you set off

    Engines are designed to "worked". Leaving them sitting causes more wear and tear.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 373 ✭✭david4791


    Very important to drive with warm car in very cold (-12 ) conditions, otherwise your screen will re-freeze. Anyhow no answer t to the question yet?. Would the alarm definitely go off?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 373 ✭✭david4791


    I might just try it , see what happens.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38 tezzy_v2


    antodeco wrote: »
    Engines are designed to "worked". Leaving them sitting causes more wear and tear.

    They're not designed to be worked hard until warm - when the oil is up to full operating temperature. Driving them on before the oil is warm enough to do its job is what causes wear and tear


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,181 ✭✭✭Rick Deckard


    when the engine is running, lock the doors with the spare key.. not the remote central locking/alarm button.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,065 ✭✭✭Pique


    RoverJames wrote: »
    Not good for an engine is idling from cold for 15mins.
    antodeco wrote: »
    Leaving them sitting causes more wear and tear.

    Utter rubbish.
    tezzy_v2 wrote: »
    They're not designed to be worked hard until warm - when the oil is up to full operating temperature. Driving them on before the oil is warm enough to do its job is what causes wear and tear

    And that's why.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭Nonoperational


    I can't see how letting it idle for 15 mins before driving would cause anymore wear than driving on from cold.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,320 ✭✭✭v3ttel


    RoverJames wrote: »
    Why not just clear the screen, hop in, start up and drive off, we're not in Siberia

    Any other place other than Siberia the ice will just magically clear as soon as I start my car?
    RoverJames wrote: »
    Not good for an engine is idling from cold for 15mins.

    And this is complete rubbish.


  • Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,631 ✭✭✭✭antodeco


    Pique wrote: »
    Utter rubbish.

    Care to elaborate?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,310 ✭✭✭Pkiernan


    Pique wrote: »
    Utter rubbish.



    And that's why.

    Actually, for modern cars, your post is the one that is inaccurate:

    Have a read:

    1. Driving warms the car faster than idling
    If your concern is not the health of the car, but simply your own creature comforts, Bob Aldrich of the California Energy Commission points out that "idling is not actually an effective way to warm up a car — it warms up faster if you just drive it."

    The coming electric cars, such as the Nissan Leaf, will incorporate a wonderful feature that allows the owner to use a cellphone to tell the car (which is plugged into the grid) to pre-warm or pre-cool the interior. No idling necessary.



    2. Ten seconds is all you need
    Environmental Defense Fund, which produced the Idling Gets You Nowhere campaign, advises motorists to turn off their ignition if they're sitting stopped for more than 10 seconds.

    "After about 10 seconds, you waste more money running the engine than restarting it, said Andy Darrell, deputy director of the EDF Energy Program. "Switch the car off at the curb, and you'll be leaving money in your wallet and protecting the air in your community."



    3. Idling hurts the car
    According to the Hinkle Charitable Foundation's Anti-Idling Primer, idling forces an engine "to operate in a very inefficient and gasoline-rich mode that, over time, can degrade the engine's performance and reduce mileage."

    The Campaign for an Idle-Free New York City points out that idling causes carbon residues to build up inside the engine, which reduces its efficiency.

    [ Related: Five secrets to make your car last longer and save you money. ]


    4. Idling costs money
    Over a year of five minutes of daily idling (which causes incomplete combustion of fuel), the "Anti-Idling Primer" estimates that the operator of a V8-engine car will waste 20 gallons of gasoline, which not only produces 440 pounds of carbon dioxide but costs at least $60.



    5. Idling in the garage can kill you
    Idling a car in a garage, even with the door open, is dangerous and exposes the driver to carbon monoxide and other noxious gases. If the garage is attached, those fumes can also enter the house.

    [ Related: Six surprising sources of indoor air pollution. ]



    6. Block heaters beat remote starters
    Lori Strothard of the Waterloo Citizens Vehicle Idling Reduction Task Force in Canada says, "Remote starters can too easily cause people to warm up their cars for 5 to 15 minutes, which is generally unnecessary."

    A block heater, which is designed to heat the engine and can cost under $30, on a timer set to start one to two hours before driving, does the trick in very cold climates.



    7. Quick errands aren't quick enough
    Natural Resources Canada points out that leaving your car idling while you're running into a store on an errand or going back into the house to pick up a forgotten item is another way to waste gas and pollute both your town and the planet.

    "Leaving your engine running is hard on your pocketbook, produces greenhouse gas emissions, and is an invitation to car thieves," the agency (PDF) says.



    8. Idling is bad for your health (and your neighbor's health)
    According to Minneapolis' anti-idling ordinance, "Exhaust is hazardous to human health, especially children's; studies have linked air pollution to increased rates of cancer, heart and lung disease, asthma and allergies."

    Isabelle Silverman, who runs EDF's anti-idling campaign, says that car idling "is the second-hand smoking of the outdoors. One of the problems is that cars idle close to the curb, where pedestrians are walking. And when you have a child in a stroller, they are particularly close to the tailpipe. Studies show that children's IQ levels are lower when they live near major roads with lots of traffic." (A fresh study even links autism to freeway pollution.)

    Alex Scaperotta, who created an anti-idling campaign with a classmate when he was in fifth grade in Wilton, Connecticut, came up with a slogan that was used on bumper stickers and websites: "If you're stopped for more than 10, turn it off and on again." Sounds like good advice.

    [ Related: Five road-tested ways to pay less than $1 a gallon for gas. ]


  • Posts: 23,339 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Rooney10 wrote: »
    Any other place other than Siberia the ice will just magically clear as soon as I start my car?



    And this is complete rubbish.
    can't you read? I said clear the screen first. And also I diment advise anyone to drive the car hard from cold. The mindless horse **** folks are suggesting in this thread is unreal. No manufacturer will recommend the engine to be warmed to operating temp by allowing it idle.


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  • Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,631 ✭✭✭✭antodeco


    RoverJames wrote: »
    can't you read? I said clear the screen first. And also I diment advise anyone to drive the car hard from cold. The mindless horse **** folks are suggesting in this thread is unreal. No manufacturer will recommend the engine to be warmed to operating temp by allowing it idle.

    Exactly. Neither did I mention that you hurtle down the road at max rev's to warm it up. A cars engine will generally warm up within 5 minutes if being driven, to the same temperature that idling does in about 20 minutes. And just to clarify, I do mean "normal" driving...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,220 ✭✭✭✭biko


    A. have someone sit in running car when you lock it from outside. See what happens.
    B. open drivers window fully, sit in car, reach out and lock it with spare key from outside. See what happens.
    If something happens you or the other person can turn car off/turn alarm off.

    In my GFs Micra you can turn car on, remove key (while it's running!) and then use key to lock car from outside. Handy.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,249 ✭✭✭pippip


    Only use the immediate drive away method if you are going on a journey long enough to get the engine fully up to operating temperature. If you shut the engine down before this condensation will build up within the engine and cause problems.

    If you surf the net you'll find articles recommending both options.

    I let mine run with one key and lock with the other key on bad mornings.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,629 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    Is this allowed on a public road in Ireland? In the UK, this would be the offence of "quitting" a vehicle. Most of the driving regs derive from EU legislation and are common to member states although this might be an example of a difference.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,249 ✭✭✭pippip


    Its illegal only if the car is on public street. Driveway or apartment car park would be legal.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 814 ✭✭✭JerCotter7


    Not sure about FWD but it's bad for the gearbox and diff in a RWD because people see their car is warm and give it a bit of shoe when it's only the engine that is warm.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,029 ✭✭✭shedweller


    Pique wrote: »
    Utter rubbish.
    Really?
    http://www.consumerenergycenter.org/myths/idling.html
    http://www.dadacanada.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=1&Itemid=32
    http://www.garrison.hawaii.army.mil/sustainability/Documents/Transport/IdlingFactSheet.pdf

    I have never bothered to let an engine idle for long when cold. I think it's one of the worst things a person could do to an engine.
    Sure, it's nice to get into a warm car with perfectly clear windows, but an idling car will churn out crap into the air AND wear the engine more than if it was let idle for maybe 10 to 20 seconds then move off. Wait for the aircon to clear the windows if need be but move off asap.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,438 ✭✭✭TwoShedsJackson


    It's the immobiliser that stops cars from being knicked, not the doors being locked. The average scumbag looking to rob a car can probably get the door open in ten seconds and if the key is in the ignition your insurance will be voided.

    So overall I wouldn't do it :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,790 ✭✭✭cornbb


    I can't fathom how people can leave the car idling outside while they sit inside, even if it's locked and even if you're watching it through a window. Especially as thieves (who are known to target such cars) can get a locked door open in seconds.

    I would never step out of my car without taking the keys from the ignition.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 889 ✭✭✭doctorchopper


    Pkiernan wrote: »
    Actually, for modern cars, your post is the one that is inaccurate:

    Have a read:

    1. Driving warms the car faster than idling
    If your concern is not the health of the car, but simply your own creature comforts, Bob Aldrich of the California Energy Commission points out that "idling is not actually an effective way to warm up a car — it warms up faster if you just drive it."

    The coming electric cars, such as the Nissan Leaf, will incorporate a wonderful feature that allows the owner to use a cellphone to tell the car (which is plugged into the grid) to pre-warm or pre-cool the interior. No idling necessary.



    2. Ten seconds is all you need
    Environmental Defense Fund, which produced the Idling Gets You Nowhere campaign, advises motorists to turn off their ignition if they're sitting stopped for more than 10 seconds.

    "After about 10 seconds, you waste more money running the engine than restarting it, said Andy Darrell, deputy director of the EDF Energy Program. "Switch the car off at the curb, and you'll be leaving money in your wallet and protecting the air in your community."



    3. Idling hurts the car
    According to the Hinkle Charitable Foundation's Anti-Idling Primer, idling forces an engine "to operate in a very inefficient and gasoline-rich mode that, over time, can degrade the engine's performance and reduce mileage."

    The Campaign for an Idle-Free New York City points out that idling causes carbon residues to build up inside the engine, which reduces its efficiency.

    [ Related: Five secrets to make your car last longer and save you money. ]


    4. Idling costs money
    Over a year of five minutes of daily idling (which causes incomplete combustion of fuel), the "Anti-Idling Primer" estimates that the operator of a V8-engine car will waste 20 gallons of gasoline, which not only produces 440 pounds of carbon dioxide but costs at least $60.



    5. Idling in the garage can kill you
    Idling a car in a garage, even with the door open, is dangerous and exposes the driver to carbon monoxide and other noxious gases. If the garage is attached, those fumes can also enter the house.

    [ Related: Six surprising sources of indoor air pollution. ]



    6. Block heaters beat remote starters
    Lori Strothard of the Waterloo Citizens Vehicle Idling Reduction Task Force in Canada says, "Remote starters can too easily cause people to warm up their cars for 5 to 15 minutes, which is generally unnecessary."

    A block heater, which is designed to heat the engine and can cost under $30, on a timer set to start one to two hours before driving, does the trick in very cold climates.



    7. Quick errands aren't quick enough
    Natural Resources Canada points out that leaving your car idling while you're running into a store on an errand or going back into the house to pick up a forgotten item is another way to waste gas and pollute both your town and the planet.

    "Leaving your engine running is hard on your pocketbook, produces greenhouse gas emissions, and is an invitation to car thieves," the agency (PDF) says.



    8. Idling is bad for your health (and your neighbor's health)
    According to Minneapolis' anti-idling ordinance, "Exhaust is hazardous to human health, especially children's; studies have linked air pollution to increased rates of cancer, heart and lung disease, asthma and allergies."

    Isabelle Silverman, who runs EDF's anti-idling campaign, says that car idling "is the second-hand smoking of the outdoors. One of the problems is that cars idle close to the curb, where pedestrians are walking. And when you have a child in a stroller, they are particularly close to the tailpipe. Studies show that children's IQ levels are lower when they live near major roads with lots of traffic." (A fresh study even links autism to freeway pollution.)

    Alex Scaperotta, who created an anti-idling campaign with a classmate when he was in fifth grade in Wilton, Connecticut, came up with a slogan that was used on bumper stickers and websites: "If you're stopped for more than 10, turn it off and on again." Sounds like good advice.

    [ Related: Five road-tested ways to pay less than $1 a gallon for gas. ]

    Most of these points are for engines that are already warm


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,791 ✭✭✭JJJJNR


    I have one of these things :

    !C!2EPR!B2k~$(KGrHqIOKpQEy+jCyCRJBNEzPzH1ew~~0_1.GIF

    Its got magnets that attach it to the car so even in the really bad winds which we have recently had it never blows away. just throw in the boot in the morning and drive off.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭squod


    -33C on a Siberian morning, -16C here last week. Not a whole lot in it TBH


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,620 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    david4791 wrote: »
    Very important to drive with warm car in very cold (-12 ) conditions, otherwise your screen will re-freeze. Anyhow no answer t to the question yet?. Would the alarm definitely go off?

    Well, at the end of the day, there's only one way to find out.
    Gives you something to do on a Saturday morning.
    Post your result here maybe?:D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,727 ✭✭✭Midnight_EG


    Too many people let their car idle for 15 minutes then get straight into ragging their car down the road...poor gearbox still being frozen :(


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,310 ✭✭✭Pkiernan


    Most of these points are for engines that are already warm

    ??

    6 of the 8 points are applicable to starting up and idling.

    Regardless, you are more likely to cause damage to the engine by "warming it up for 15 mins" than by starting up and driving off in a normal fashion.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,309 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    david4791 wrote: »
    Over the last cold month I have been turning the car on for 15 mins before I set off to work, I watch the car through the window as I have the brekky. I drive a Saab 93 and was wondering if I locked the car with the spare key set while the engine was running would it initiate the car alarm/immobiliser?. I would be fearful of opportunists robbing cars in the cold weather with cars left running.A car stolen with keys in the ignition offers no insurance cover from your provider. CURIOUS.:)

    Lock the doors "manually" with the spare key. That should work. Or do what i do...get the wife to take the car for a 5 minute drive while you have breakfast!! :D


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,536 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    squod wrote: »
    -33C on a Siberian morning, -16C here last week. Not a whole lot in it TBH

    Youve not actually experienced -33c have you?

    Its like saying theres not much in it between 16c and 32c....yet if you experenced 32c here in the summer youd bloody well know it

    The same can be said for -32c, people in Ireland only think they know what cold is....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,863 ✭✭✭✭crosstownk


    I often leave the car idling for 15 mins or so to thaw it out.

    However, it is not the healthiest option. Starting and driving away immediately is preferable. The most significant factor of warm up on idle is condensation in the exhaust which can become corrosive. When idling there is not enough gas flow to expel the condensate so it lies in the exhaust and can accelerate corrosion in the exhaust system. It's not something that happens overnight but if a cold engine is allowed to warm up on idle regularly it may cause corrosion in the exhaust earlier than expected.

    Test it: leave the engine to idle from stone cold for 15 mins then rev the engine to 3/4k and watch the amount of condensate that spits from the tailpipe.

    Apart from that and the environmental impact I don't see it as being overly harmful to an engine.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,249 ✭✭✭pippip


    Cabaal wrote: »
    Youve not actually experienced -33c have you?

    Its like saying theres not much in it between 16c and 32c....yet if you experenced 32c here in the summer youd bloody well know it

    The same can be said for -32c, people in Ireland only think they know what cold is....

    Sorry but that is totally wrong. Go and do a bit of research and you'll soon change your opinion of that statement. There is no relationship between relative minus and positive variations of temp.

    you also have to take into atmospheric Water vapour. Being closer to zero causes more vapour which results in greater frost in ireland than you get in countries with consistent low temps like Siberia.


  • Posts: 24,714 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    cornbb wrote: »
    I can't fathom how people can leave the car idling outside while they sit inside, even if it's locked and even if you're watching it through a window. Especially as thieves (who are known to target such cars) can get a locked door open in seconds.

    I would never step out of my car without taking the keys from the ignition.

    Living in the country is one way anyway, my car is parked outside for the night and the keys are left in the ignition as is my dads car. I actually have a very bad habit of leaving the car running outside when running into a shop for something quick etc.

    Tbh if its cold I will leave the car running for a while before getting in, I will take my chances with a small bit of engine wear to have a nice warm car. Sure a lot of higher end cars can be timed to turn themselves on in the morning, if it was that bad for the engine I'm sure they wouldnt have this feature.


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  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,690 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Living in the country is one way anyway, my car is parked outside for the night and the keys are left in the ignition as is my dads car. I actually have a very bad habit of leaving the car running outside when running into a shop for something quick etc.

    If you spend any length of time reading this forum you'll hear about people living in the country having their cars stolen with their keys on the hall table!

    I'm gobsmacked that in this day and age you'd do as you've posted above :eek: both from the point of view of security, and any sudden mechanical failure of your car when it's left running outside whilst you run into a shop for something quick.

    I've lived in a small town (Portlaoise) and Dublin for the most part, I'd never ever leave my car unlocked, let alone with the keys in the ignition.

    You do realise that if your car is ever stolen, you'll have no comeback insurance wise?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,249 ✭✭✭pippip


    Stheno wrote: »
    If you spend any length of time reading this forum you'll hear about people living in the country having their cars stolen with their keys on the hall table!

    I'm gobsmacked that in this day and age you'd do as you've posted above :eek: both from the point of view of security, and any sudden mechanical failure of your car when it's left running outside whilst you run into a shop for something quick.

    I've lived in a small town (Portlaoise) and Dublin for the most part, I'd never ever leave my car unlocked, let alone with the keys in the ignition.

    You do realise that if your car is ever stolen, you'll have no comeback insurance wise?

    tell the insurance the keys were on the hall table:pac:


  • Posts: 24,714 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Stheno wrote: »
    If you spend any length of time reading this forum you'll hear about people living in the country having their cars stolen with their keys on the hall table!

    You do realise that if your car is ever stolen, you'll have no comeback insurance wise?

    There is living in the country and there is where my home place is! There hasn't been any form of robbery within miles my house ever.

    People only lock there houses at night, there is no such thing as locking a shed, the key has never been out of the ignition of the tractor etc etc.


    I leave the car running outside where im renting in cork city too, the chances of an opportunist coming on it in the few minutes its outside is minuscule imo, unless your in a bad area of course.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,690 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    There is living in the country and there is where my home place is! There hasn't been any form of robbery within miles my house ever.

    People only lock there houses at night, there is no such thing as locking a shed, the key has never been out of the ignition of the tractor etc etc.


    I leave the car running outside where im renting in cork city too, the chances of an opportunist coming on it in the few minutes its outside is minuscule imo, unless your in a bad area of course.

    I'm just thinking of a recent thread where a person had a BMW stolen from a quiet country area.

    When I lived in Portlaoise I never locked my front door (due to a pack of giant dogs who shared the house :D) but I always locked my car :) I'd prefer not to leave it to chance for some ****ty little opportunist to make away with my car :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,800 ✭✭✭Senna


    I live in the countryside and the amount of times i've left the car unlocked all night with my wallet inside is..........well i'll admit it, just stupid. But i've been more careful to lock it lately.
    During the cold spells I regularly leave the car running and unlocked in the morning to heat up, and when i'm leaving work at night i leave it running but lock it with the spare set.

    The joys of countryside living, most of you townsfolks :D wouldn't understand how there couldn't be a thief around every corner, around my corner is a field and another, almost identical field, around the other-side.
    (i lived in cities before, thats why i take great joy living in the back-of-beyond)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,279 ✭✭✭PaulKK


    To all those people who think leaving a car idling is the best way to warm up your engine and causing less wear, read your cars manual.

    It states in the manuals of the cars I have owned something similar to "After starting the car from cold, do not warm up the engine by allowing it to idle. Drive away smoothly avoiding high revs and harsh acceleration to minimise wear and to reach optimum operating temperature as soon as possible."


    Have a look if you don't believe me.


  • Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,631 ✭✭✭✭antodeco


    So basically, the posts about it being bad, have evidence. The people who say its not bad, have the words "utter rubbish" as their evidence....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,310 ✭✭✭Pkiernan


    antodeco wrote: »
    So basically, the posts about it being bad, have evidence. The people who say its not bad, have the words "utter rubbish" as their evidence....

    Exactly - sure why let facts get in the way of opinion!! :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,138 ✭✭✭snaps


    dont forget as well, many countries dont have a white frost even with temps down to -30c due to the air being dry with less humidity. Ive been in finland in -30 and the screens have been clear, due to a very low humidity. some of our frosty nights can be 85% humidity.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 889 ✭✭✭doctorchopper


    PaulKK wrote: »
    To all those people who think leaving a car idling is the best way to warm up your engine and causing less wear, read your cars manual.

    It states in the manuals of the cars I have owned something similar to "After starting the car from cold, do not warm up the engine by allowing it to idle. Drive away smoothly avoiding high revs and harsh acceleration to minimise wear and to reach optimum operating temperature as soon as possible."


    Have a look if you don't believe me.

    If this is the case then why does my nissan navara have a heat switch that increases the engine idle speed to warm the engine, and automatically disconnects when a gear is selected????? You can jump in your car when its -10 or so start it up and drive away, but i'll be warming my engine before i set off on my journey. forged alloy pistons will expand with temp way quicker than a cast iron block which will increase wear on a engine. The "greens" can do all the research and tests they want but my engine will be warm before i leave the drive way. I'm not saying that i will leave it idle for 15 min just to defrost the windscreen but if its getting down around -10 i will let it warm up. I've 19 years driving experience in northern canada and been around cars and trucks for 35 years and have never heard of an engine damage being done by letting the engine idle. Lorry drivers leave their trucks run 24 hrs a day when it gets colder than -20 and clock over 1000000 miles with no problems.


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