Raise the corporate tax

whiteonion

Corporation tax should be increased in Ireland, I can't see why this tax should be sacred when taxes for us ordinary people are increasing while services are being cut.

If you raised the corporate tax to 20% it would still be a quite low tax by EU standards. Where would the multinationals move to since taxes are still lower than in most countries even if you raised it to 20%.

The Nordic countries + Germany all have higher corporate tax and yet they seem to do pretty well.

Lockstep

The problem is that the Nordic countries/Germany have strong domestic companies and can make their own exports, we're extremely reliant on MNC to supply jobs.

Our 12.5% corporation tax is extremely attractive looking to foreign investors and businessmen. While we have a few other attractive features like EU membership and a well educated/Anglophone membership, we also have problems like poor infrastructure and a high cost of living. Reducing the tax rate to 12.5% was one of the smart decisions that was brought in by the last rainbow coalition (funnily enough, by Labour Minister for Finance Ruairi Quinn).

Basically, we don't have enough other comparative advantages to justify raising our corporation tax.

Sesshoumaru

I think you'd have to use a balancing scales. On one side you place our low corporation tax rate and on the other side you put poor infrastructure, higher energy costs, higher wage costs etc etc So then maybe on balance you might find it's less attractive to do business in Ireland compared to doing business in Germany if our corporate tax rate was at 20%

whiteonion

kickoutthejams wrote: »

The problem is that the Nordic countries/Germany have strong domestic companies and can make their own exports, we're extremely reliant on MNC to supply jobs.

Our 12.5% corporation tax is extremely attractive looking to foreign investors and businessmen. While we have a few other attractive features like EU membership and a well educated/Anglophone membership, we also have problems like poor infrastructure and a high cost of living. Reducing the tax rate to 12.5% was one of the smart decisions that was brought in by the last rainbow coalition (funnily enough, by Labour Minister for Finance Ruairi Quinn).

Basically, we don't have enough other comparative advantages to justify raising our corporation tax.

What Ireland needs right now is a balanced budget, at the moment our current politicians are selling future generations into debt bondage because these politicians on both the left and the right refuse to do what it takes to balance the budget. Raising corporate tax is a very good way to get some more badly needed revenue.

mgmt

whiteonion wrote: »

What Ireland needs right now is a balanced budget, at the moment our current politicians are selling future generations into debt bondage because these politicians on both the left and the right refuse to do what it takes to balance the budget. Raising corporate tax is a very good way to get some more badly needed revenue.

First Sugar Tax and now Corporation Tax???

Corporations employ 1000s. Where will they get jobs, when the MNC fock off when the corporation tax rate is increased?

jmayo

whiteonion wrote: »

What Ireland needs right now is a balanced budget, at the moment our current politicians are selling future generations into debt bondage because these politicians on both the left and the right refuse to do what it takes to balance the budget. Raising corporate tax is a very good way to get some more badly needed revenue.

You don't appear to think very much about the ways you suggest for raising taxes.
First it was sugar, not it is corporation tax. :rolleyes:

It is not a vcery good way of raising tax if in the medium to long term it drives out business.

Yes you might get big chunk of tax in this year, but next year you find less companies to tax, less workers in work and thus more unemployed to add a drain on the exchequer.

Taxes can become counter productive, as was seen by one of lenihan's great decisions in upping our VAT rate at exactly the same time as the UK lowered theirs.

Of course I get the feeling you will blatter something about how these FDI companies and MNCs will still stay in Ireland even though they will now have increased corporation taxes to go with the cr** infrastructure, high wage costs, high energy costs and decreasing calibre of graduates. :rolleyes:

Oh taxing ones way out of recession has been tried and it doesn't really work. :rolleyes:

It is like the old sailor joke that "floggings will continue until morale improves".
These measures don't work.

Lockstep

whiteonion wrote: »

What Ireland needs right now is a balanced budget, at the moment our current politicians are selling future generations into debt bondage because these politicians on both the left and the right refuse to do what it takes to balance the budget. Raising corporate tax is a very good way to get some more badly needed revenue.

As much as we need a balanced budget, even if we double the corporation tax it wouldn't do much in plugging the deficit. And that's assuming that the tax intake remains the same; far more likely it would lead to more companies leaving the country.

It's too much of a risky political move, especially for the minor revenue gains we would see.

RichardAnd

If anything, corporation tax should be lowered. Our MNCs are, like it or not, a huge provider of employment and for that alone, they are vital we must do all that is possible to ensure they stay whilst attracting even more.

Raising Corporation Tax would cause MNCs to leave Ireland, taking their profits with them. Thus, we would be trading the 12.5% tax on Microsoft's profits for 0% is they were to leave and that's not taking into account the job losses.

CT tax is precious.

whiteonion

RichardAnd wrote: »

If anything, corporation tax should be lowered. Our MNCs are, like it or not, a huge provider of employment and for that alone, they are vital we must do all that is possible to ensure they stay whilst attracting even more.

Raising Corporation Tax would cause MNCs to leave Ireland, taking their profits with them. Thus, we would be trading the 12.5% tax on Microsoft's profits for 0% is they were to leave and that's not taking into account the job losses.

CT tax is precious.

Where would the MNCs go to if taxes were raised? There are not many in Europe with a corporation tax below 20%. Also it is foolish to make oneself to dependent on big MNCs, what's next if they threaten us with moving out if we don't implement the same environmental laws and labour laws like Nigeria should we succumb under these threats too?

whiteonion

How are the Nordics able to have more strict labour laws, higher taxes in all levels of society and still have a prosperous economy. Ireland has much lower taxes and is doing pretty badly. If your theory was correct it should have been the other way around now shouldn't it?

We should lower it tbh.

stephendevlin

RichardAnd wrote: »

MNCs are, like it or not, a huge provider of employment
.

I agree I know lots of towns and surrounding areas depending on these jobs. If it pushed up .. all it takes is a couple of companies to pack up and leave and then a mass exodus ....

Be a grave mistake this country / government

Will leave Ireland an even poorer place with an even longer dole que! And for what??

stephendevlin

whiteonion wrote: »

Corporation tax should be increased in Ireland, I can't see why this tax should be sacred when taxes for us ordinary people are increasing while services are being cut.

If you raised the corporate tax to 20% it would still be a quite low tax by EU standards. Where would the multinationals move to since taxes are still lower than in most countries even if you raised it to 20%.

The Nordic countries + Germany all have higher corporate tax and yet they seem to do pretty well.

Those countries resent the fact for years that we can offer foreign investment companies cheaper tax and attract jobs

They would love nothing more to see us up our corp tax to thier level. We would end up a very sorry nation.

whiteonion

stephendevlin wrote: »

Those countries resent the fact for years that we can offer foreign investment companies cheaper tax and attract jobs

They would love nothing more to see us up our corp tax to thier level. We would end up a very sorry nation.

Obviously taxes are too low, otherwise we would not have massive budget deficits.

Tipp Man

whiteonion wrote: »

Obviously taxes are too low, otherwise we would not have massive budget deficits.

Ever think that we are spending way beyond our means???

A country that hasn't 2 cents to rub together can still pay some of the best levels of social welfare in the world, it can pay its teachers some of the best payrates in the world, its civil servants must be some of the worst value for money employees in any western economy.

Yet your answer is to tax more?? Ignoring of course that our corp tax is only about 3.5 billion - we could double that amount and we are still short about 11 billion - that is how high the governments expenditure is

whiteonion

Tipp Man wrote: »

Ever think that we are spending way beyond our means???

A country that hasn't 2 cents to rub together can still pay some of the best levels of social welfare in the world, it can pay its teachers some of the best payrates in the world, its civil servants must be some of the worst value for money employees in any western economy.

Yet your answer is to tax more?? Ignoring of course that our corp tax is only about 3.5 billion - we could double that amount and we are still short about 11 billion - that is how high the governments expenditure is

I think most people would prefer raising taxes over cutting down social services to third world levels.

ei.sdraob

whiteonion wrote: »

Raising corporate tax is a very good way to get some more badly needed revenue.

Its a very good way to ensure that by the next budget there isnt an economy left.

douglashyde

whiteonion wrote: »

Obviously taxes are too low, otherwise we would not have massive budget deficits.

That makes no sense. That's not how Ireland has a budget deficit, MNC don't create expenses for the country. What they do create is jobs (income tax), corporation tax (low relative to other nations) support services (more income tax and corp tax)

It's true that corporation tax could be raised a certain amount and have little effect on the amount MNC invest in Ireland. But that's not something I want the government to test the limit on.

MNC have been good to Ireland over the last 20 years and are one of the few areas of society that bring positivity in this country now. It seems typical Irish style to complain about everything, even the good!

stephendevlin

whiteonion wrote: »

Obviously taxes are too low, otherwise we would not have massive budget deficits.

You sound like an accountant ..


Cutting off your nose to spite your face ...

So up the taxes ... Our budget will see a tiny change but the .... Ohhhh .. 30,000 jobs are lost at €200 a week on dole I dunno you do the math..

later12

whiteonion wrote: »

Obviously taxes are too low, otherwise we would not have massive budget deficits.

The tax take is too low, that does not mean that the tax rate is too low relative to our expenditure. It can mean that there are less people paying tax, less money in circulation and generating retail and capital taxes, or that our expenditure is too great, or, more likely, all three.

Count Dooku

whiteonion wrote: »

I think most people would prefer raising taxes over cutting down social services to third world levels.

if country perform as third world country without own strong export base, then it deserves their world social services

whiteonion

stephendevlin wrote: »

You sound like an accountant ..


Cutting off your nose to spite your face ...

So up the taxes ... Our budget will see a tiny change but the .... Ohhhh .. 30,000 jobs are lost at €200 a week on dole I dunno you do the math..

30,000 x 200 x 52 = €312,000,000.

I think the tax revenue we'd generate would more than make up for the added cost of unemployment lines. Raising the corporate tax from 12,5% to 20% would generate billions of euros in extra revenue.

Looking at it from a budget perspective a raise of the corporate tax would make sense.

RachaelVO

whiteonion wrote: »

Where would the MNCs go to if taxes were raised? There are not many in Europe with a corporation tax below 20%. Also it is foolish to make oneself to dependent on big MNCs, what's next if they threaten us with moving out if we don't implement the same environmental laws and labour laws like Nigeria should we succumb under these threats too?

the Netherlands. The dutch rate is also very low, not to mention the fact that they have a bilingual work force and are withing driving distance of most countries... That's where they would go, leaving Ireland more FUBARED that it is already

ei.sdraob

or Cyprus who have a 10% rate
or several eastern european countries who wouldnt mind few jobs and MNCs...

later12

whiteonion wrote: »

30,000 x 200 x 52 = €312,000,000.

I think the tax revenue we'd generate would more than make up for the added cost of unemployment lines. Raising the corporate tax from 12,5% to 20% would generate billions of euros in extra revenue.

From whom? presumably the 30,000 figure that you yourself employ reflects a desertion of companies from Ireland in the event of a tax hike. Not only will public expenditure rise, the tax take will inevitably fall or plateau.

By the way, you could probably double that unemployment cost based solely on the auxiliary costs of unemployment like medical care and rental aid.

mgmt

whiteonion wrote: »

30,000 x 200 x 52 = €312,000,000.

I think the tax revenue we'd generate would more than make up for the added cost of unemployment lines. Raising the corporate tax from 12,5% to 20% would generate billions of euros in extra revenue.

Looking at it from a budget perspective a raise of the corporate tax would make sense.

Please repeat JC Maths.

€312,000,000

+30,000*€36,400*20%= €218,400,000 ...lost PAYE revenue (very conservative)

+ lost VAT revenue
+ lost PRSI
+ (drop in economic activity = more job loses)

=:eek:

MrMatisse

Hello 20% tax rate

Goodbye economy

Chucky the tree

It's not just unemployment cost. It's the drop in taxes like VAT from people spending less money now there unemployed. Then there's the knock effect of shops, pubs cafes etc that are based near the MNC. I'd be very confident that if we did up our CT to 20% another EU country would be straight in to drop there's to 12% or so and clean up.

stephendevlin

whiteonion wrote: »

30,000 x 200 x 52 = €312,000,000.

I think the tax revenue we'd generate would more than make up for the added cost of unemployment lines. Raising the corporate tax from 12,5% to 20% would generate billions of euros in extra revenue.

Looking at it from a budget perspective a raise of the corporate tax would make sense.

Sorry that was a poor example.. there are a lot more than this working for these companies also minus your intake of tax (billions) as these companies will no longer be in Ireland to pay these increased taxes

I really think your having a laugh though. You really couldnt be that silly to think what you think...

up the tax and were f.u.c.k.e.d ... simples..

you would just be giving them a reason to move to Poland (which is already happening) India (which is already happening)

Nermal

whiteonion wrote: »

I think most people would prefer raising taxes over cutting down social services to third world levels.

They're already at third world levels, the problem is we're not paying third world prices for them.

Atlantic Dawn

No company in their right mind would invest in this country if we had the same rate as the other English speaking country in the EU the UK, the 12.5% rate allows companies to wash profits here and that's the only reason they are here.