2 kids, 1 bike

dynamick

I am thinking of bringing my 2 kids to school by bike. Can you help me with some advice?

The kids are 4 and 8. My first idea is to put one on the back carrier in a child seat and the younger one on the crossbar on one of those mini saddles.

Is this a good idea? Is it better to use a bike trailer like this:


or even a bike like this


or else


or
and


or


Is it safe to have two kids on a bike from a balance point of view? There's a lot of traffic and the 8yr old isn't skilled enough yet to ride on the road separately.

I would love to know if any of you have 1st hand experience of this

Lumen

Depends on budget. If money were no object I'd get a cargo bike or this.

I think 4 y/o is way too old for a crossbar seat, and I also think they're hateful things.

I have cycled on the road with a 4/5 year old on his own bike, although it was in controlled conditions. The main problem is speed - he could only maintain about 12kph and junctions can be dodgy at that speed.

I'd say your best option is a trailer bike and rear seat, but I don't know how stable that's doing to be and you'd need to be sure that they don't interfere with each other.

I assume there are no off-road cycle paths.

smacl

Lumen wrote: »

I think 4 y/o is way too old for a crossbar seat, and I also think they're hateful things.

Yeah, they get much easier when they're a bit older

showry

My dad used to have an old Triumph 20 shopper. I used to sit on the carrier on the front facing backwards and my brother used to sit on the back carrier. Happy days. We'd probably have been quicker walking. We were probably about 6 or 7 as well so not exactly light loads. That was the 70s though. Try telling that to the kids now...................zzzzzzzzzz

fat bloke

I've used a trailer for the past couple of years and they are FAN bleeding tastic yokes. But, if you have a standard 8 year old then he/she will be too big for it really. My two are 5 and 6 and they're very close to outgrowing it. After that I don't know what I'll do.

The second pic you have there of the kangaroo bike with the kids in the front - same problem. Your 8 year old is too old. Plus, it's impossible to get your hands on one of those kangaroos, and they cost something like 3500 sterling, iirc, cos I thought about getting one.

If your cycle isn't that far, then your best bet imo is let the 8 year old cycle himself - he's well old enough now for a mile or mile and a half cycle, and take the younger kid in a trailer.

You can get tandem tag-alongs - i.e. the half bike that santa claus has his kids on in your third pic, but afaik they are for 6 years and older, so it's not going to suit your 4 year old.

My kids are out-growing my trailer as I said and I think what I'm going to do is let the older girl cycle (she's nearly 7 and is well able as long as I'm with her) and keep using the trailer for the younger girl.

Lumen

btw, I've got a decent Raleigh trailer that I don't use any more. Been used about 10 times in a year or so, attaches to rear stays.

Not pushing a sale, just saying.

dynamick

triple bike.

Some of these configurations look dangerous
I think that fat bloke's idea that I should get the 8 yr old on his own bike makes most sense. I could put him on the footpath beside until he's more sure of himself.

The other child can sit on the back carrier but in a proper seat. I've heard bad things about crossbar seats and he's probably too big for it in any case.

I think the kids are going to enjoy this.

Piercemeear

Not really trying to affect your decision one way or the other, but tagging around the backroads of Kildare on my dad's Raleigh's crossbar seat is one of my earliest, happiest memories. My fat fists wedged between the handles and the stem. Summer sun and sticky roads and and a shared can of fizzy orange and cooling our feet in the canal.

petethedrummer

Surly Big Dummy

Galway K9

Have to laugh at the name of this Thread!

petethedrummer

If you need to take their grandparent to mass you can.

fat bloke

One thing to bear in mind is that the beauty of the trailer is that the child stays dry! So when I take my two, I wear full cycling regalia and it doesn't matter what the elements do, the children are dry and relatively warm. I tried a rear mounted seat for a bit but my daughter hated it, didn't like the wind in her face, certainly didn't like rain etc, AND it's a lot of weight to have on the back of the bike, and you can't get off the bike and lean it against a fence or a post etc etc.

Lets say your 8 year old has a little wobble on the bike and you put your foot down and reach out to him, that's not easy to do while keeping your own bike upright and steady.

I would highly recommend a trailer to be honest. The cost isn't much more than a good quality child seat, and they're much more versatile. - They even have a little boot into which you can put coats and school bags and stuff.

My biggest regret was that I hummed and hawed about getting one until my youngest was about 3 and a half. I should have got one years before. They are brilliant.

DualFrontDiscs

We've a Christiania trike that we bought from Velorution and had shipped over on a pallet.
Here it is when it arrived (almost two years ago):



Here it is full of shopping:



And with kids (cycling with Lance ):



The kids are 4.5 and 2.5. It will last them a while yet.

In fact if you get the straight boxed version you could have two teenagers in it (facing each other)

Have a look at the xtracyclegallery for some other ideas on carrying kids, such as:



and



I've an xtracycle myself (great things), but haven't tried it with two kids (yet).

The Christiania is the best bike I've ever bought!

Regards,

DFD.

tomasrojo

I've seen a few kids in cargo bikes in the last year. A Christiania a few times (not DFD's), a Nihola in Rathmines and a two-wheeler Long John-like one on Ailesbury Road this afternoon.

I really like the look of them. The Christiania most of all. Best of all, I think I can convince my family that it's safe.

Paul Kiernan

DualFrontDiscs

tomasrojo wrote: »

I've seen a few kids in cargo bikes in the last year. A Christiania a few times (not DFD's), a Nihola in Rathmines and a two-wheeler Long John-like one on Ailesbury Road this afternoon.

I really like the look of them. The Christiania most of all. Best of all, I think I can convince my family that it's safe.

We met the other Christiania owners for a trial run before they bought theirs. Happy to oblige anyone else in Dublin (within reason).

I tried the Nihola in Toronto and it's a lovely machine, but very different ('box' doesn't turn) and not as big a box (trust me it's easy to fill once you get used to having the space).

I like the Long John's (though really can't justify it ) but chose the trike for the perceived stability, very useful in slow traffic.

DFD.

These type of threads always make me happy.

DualFrontDiscs

If the Surly Big Dummy, or Xtracycle retrofit appeals to anyone, make sure you also have a look at the Yuba Mundo (a cheaper/ simpler/ robustly built) bike.

Practical Cycles in the UK stock them: http://www.practicalcycles.com/userimages/procart17.htm

DFD.

doozerie

I like the Xtracycle from what I've read of it. It is very versatile but I think to get the most out of it you really need a suitable bike to start with such as the Surly Big Dummy so the initial costs build up fast. Some of the DIY alterations include this double child seat (though obviously for younger kids than yours):



and this tale of adding handlebars to the rack for older kids - the rack itself can take 200lbs in weight apparently:



We have a (single) child trailer which we have been very happy with it but again based on age your kids are probably already close to the limits of many trailers. We looked at front mounted child seats too but they wouldn't work with any of our bikes as the ones we investigated required a sufficiently long head tube to clamp to which probably requires either a very large frame or a sit-up-and-beg style frame neither of which we have - something to bear in mind if you do go down that route yourself.

One thing that we have found very useful on our bikes, with the trailer though probably equally as useful with a mounted childseat, is a kickstand. We bought ones which mount to the rear chain and seat stay and they've worked out very well. We bought our trailer and kickstands from Cloughjordan Cycle Coop (now known as Velo the bicycle shop) who were very helpful as they had a lot of experience of transporting kids by bike.

Tonyandthewhale

I'd say the big dummy/xtracycles/yuba mondo is the way to go. For a laugh last summer I converted my old mountain bike (using half another bike) into a sort of home-made frankenbike-cargo bike. And I was very happy with it despite how terrifying it was because I bolted it together myself (I dismantled it when going back to college for space, it didn't explode in case anyone is wondering).
I'm not suggesting you entrust your kids' lives to a home-made cargo bike but that format is very stable and very comfortable and I was happily able to carry up to two fully grown passengers significant distances so you should be able to manage two kids no bother (exposure to the elements might be a bit of an issue though).
I certainly plan on rebuilding my cargo bike/purchasing a proper one whenever I get the time and space.

DualFrontDiscs

doozerie wrote: »

I like the Xtracycle from what I've read of it. It is very versatile but I think to get the most out of it you really need a suitable bike to start with such as the Surly Big Dummy <snip>....

For clarity, the Surly Big Dummy is a frame/ bike with the Xtracycle LongTail built into the actual frame, rather than bolted on separately. I'd love a Big Dummy, but I think retrofitting the LongTail works very well to. As exemplified by the xtracycle gallery.

Tonyandthewhale wrote: »

I'd say the big dummy/xtracycles/yuba mondo is the way to go.

The usefulness of a 'long bike' will outlast transporting the kids too!

DFD.

Lumen

DualFrontDiscs wrote: »

That's pretty cool. Or hot. Or something.

Can you really transport a skinny woman on the back of one? There doesn't seem to be much tyre drop at all.

And the dog!

RoubX

petethedrummer wrote: »

Surly Big Dummy

Wow! I presume this is a shutter speed thing, but how fast is she going with young kids not strapped in? My lads are about the same age as these, and the youngest would have lept off the bike ages ago, or climbed on my head, or be in the process of smacking the head off his brother.

Pigeon Reaper

RoubX wrote: »

Wow! I presume this is a shutter speed thing, but how fast is she going with young kids not strapped in? My lads are about the same age as these, and the youngest would have lept off the bike ages ago, or climbed on my head, or be in the process of smacking the head off his brother.

maybe she used superglue?

Lumen

RoubX wrote: »

Wow! I presume this is a shutter speed thing, but how fast is she going with young kids not strapped in? My lads are about the same age as these, and the youngest would have lept off the bike ages ago, or climbed on my head, or be in the process of smacking the head off his brother.

Falling asleep would be bad.

On the other hand, I once saw a TV documentary about Mongolian nomads in which there was a toddler on machete duty. I can't remember what he was responsible for hacking at, but he looked pretty competent.

Point is, young children are more capable than we give them credit for. You'd want a few spares though, just in case.

doozerie

Lumen wrote:

Can you really transport a skinny woman on the back of one?

According to their FAQ you can even carry a not so skinny woman on the back. In the worst case you may have to dismantle her to distribute the load though, which may cause disharmony in the relationship:

How much can I carry?
The combined weight of the rider and the load is not to exceed 350 lbs (160kg)! Each FreeLoader can safely carry 50 lbs (23kg); the SnapDeck, in front of axle, is rated to carry up to 200 lbs (90kg); the SnapDeck, behind the axle, is rated to carry up to 50 lbs(23kg); each WideLoader, 60 lbs (27kg). The FreeRadical is guaranteed to reliably and safely carry 200 lbs (90kg) of cargo load! Note that other factors impacting load capacity include the strength of your bicycle frame and existing wheels.

Harrybelafonte

petethedrummer wrote: »

Surly Big Dummy

Personally I'd rather a system where my child didn't have to hold onto my jocks to stay on the bike.

tomasrojo

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

Personally I'd rather a system where my child didn't have to hold onto my jocks to stay on the bike.

That's funny.

RoubX

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

Personally I'd rather a system where my child didn't have to hold onto my jocks to stay on the bike.

Ha, Ha, now you mention it, it looks like a chain of pain. I can see why Mum wants to get somewhere quick!

Piercemeear

Caroline_ie

I am sure you replaced the dogs with kids? No?

monument

Price may be a problem, but these are Bear bikes are nice, and they are Dublin-based. Besides the wide turning circle, very easy to ride. A bit pricey at €1.690.



Harry vs Larry are also nice looking but expensive and have no Irish dealers.

Piercemeear

I just noticed this Dutch Cargo bike is up on adverts.ie at what looks like a reasonable price compared to something new. I am not affiliated with the sale.

fat bloke

Piercemeear wrote: »

I just noticed this Dutch Cargo bike is up on adverts.ie at what looks like a reasonable price compared to something new. I am not affiliated with the sale.

That's cool alright.

But!

3 speed? - Fine for pancake flat Holland with its impeccable cycle lanes. Personally my kids-to-school commute to school is... ok ish for cycle lanes, but you are up and down off kerbs at least 10 times each way, some of them dished better than others, and it's fairly hilly coming back.

If you didn't already have Schwarnegger calves, you'd certainly have them after 6 months churning that yoke around!

petethedrummer

Piercemeear wrote: »

I just noticed this Dutch Cargo bike is up on adverts.ie at what looks like a reasonable price compared to something new. I am not affiliated with the sale.

I'm moving house soon, is that justification enough to buy a bike I really don't need? For some strange reason, I really want it.

tomasrojo

petethedrummer wrote: »

I'm moving house soon, is that justification enough to buy a bike I really don't need? For some strange reason, I really want it.

Yeah, I want the next house to which I move to have a garage so my cargo bike-to-be will have a good home.

That one at €600 looks like a good price, if it's in good condition.

I guess it's maybe got a small chainring to give you three low gears rather than the three you'd normally have?

tomasrojo

monument wrote: »

Price may be a problem, but these are Bear bikes are nice, and they are Dublin-based. Besides the wide turning circle, very easy to ride. A bit pricey at €1.690.

I think the Christiania comes to about 2.5k or so, taking into account shipping and extras for the kids. I'm guessing it's worth the extra?

tomasrojo

Also, is a spill likely in a two-wheel cargo bike?

I saw a well-dressed lady in the city centre with one of those Bear bikes (or something very like one of them) with a load of parcels wrapped in red ribbons in the cargo area and a business name on the side. Can't remember what business it was now, but the bike seemed to operate very smoothly.

GTDolanator

right i seen this thread and i have to voice my opinion,does no one else think trailer/cargo bikes addapted with seat are utterly dangerous?

petethedrummer

GTDolanator wrote: »

right i seen this thread and i have to voice my opinion,does no one else think trailer/cargo bikes addapted with seat are utterly dangerous?

Are you please thinking about the children?

GTDolanator

i am thinking of child safety,if i had any their commute to and from school would not be in any of the above.

petethedrummer

What would be appropriate a Range Rover? a BMW X5? a Bradley Tank?

monument

GTDolanator wrote: »

i am thinking of child safety,if i had any their commute to and from school would not be in any of the above.

Why not? Do you think they are better off on a bicycle seat?

fat bloke

It's the Range Rovers and X5's that make cycling in general, and transporting children on bikes in particular, potentially dangerous in the first place.

I never use my trailer on the road when the kids are in it because some jackass or bint or both in an X5 would tailgate me, bmw grill inches behind my childrens' heads, beeping.

Or simply drive over the trailer, oblivious..... and beeping.

Cycle sensibly, on an appropriate route, avoid vehicular traffic, and you'll be grand. If your commute to school is down the m50, yeah, this bike is not for you:rolleyes:

Doctor Bob

petethedrummer wrote: »

I'm moving house soon, is that justification enough to buy a bike I really don't need? For some strange reason, I really want it.

You may have to fight me for it!

I really can't justify such a purchase - I don't need it, I have nowhere to keep it, and as it's Collection Only I'd have to cycle it from Lucan to Sandymount if I bought it! - but I still can't get the idea out of my head. Hmmm..

tomasrojo wrote: »

Also, is a spill likely in a two-wheel cargo bike?

I saw a well-dressed lady in the city centre with one of those Bear bikes (or something very like one of them) with a load of parcels wrapped in red ribbons in the cargo area and a business name on the side. Can't remember what business it was now, but the bike seemed to operate very smoothly.

Is this the lady you saw? She'd be very adept with the old bakfiets alright, being a) Dutch and b) one half of the Bear Bicycles team.

I had a test ride of a bakfiets over the summer. Strange for the first couple of minutes, but a breeze in no time at all, and quite a bit more nimble than you'd think. It doesn't feel remotely unstable - in fact, more stable than your average two-wheeler - and the only time you might be worried is in snow. Trikes are obviously more stable in certain conditions (stationary, on snow), but I wonder do they sacrifice manoeuvreability, or speed. Not to mention that they look a good bit wider than a bakfiets. Horses for courses, I supppose.

tomasrojo

I think that's her. The parcels definitely looked like that. Perhaps a poor reflection on me that the parcels caught my eye more than the lady.

tomasrojo

Doctor Bob wrote: »

It doesn't feel remotely unstable - in fact, more stable than your average two-wheeler

Actually, now you mention it, the extremely long base should make it more stable. The same way a touring bike is more stable than a racing bike.

snailsong

Like Dónal said, i just love threads like this. Fair play to everybody with their positive attitudes. The country isn't half as fecked as they make it out to be. I have 3 children, 7,6 and 3 and this has started me thinking how i can get them on the road. my wife runs but won't cycle so I'll have to work on her first. I have access to a good engineering workshop so maybe i should build something....

Doctor Bob

tomasrojo wrote: »

Actually, now you mention it, the extremely long base should make it more stable. The same way a touring bike is more stable than a racing bike.

And I suspect it has a lower centre of gravity (or something). The load certainly travels closer to the ground. You should give one a whirl- the sensation is not unlike how I imagine a crane operator works.

Lumen

tomasrojo wrote: »

I think that's her. The parcels definitely looked like that. Perhaps a poor reflection on me that the parcels caught my eye more than the lady.

Yes, it's a gay test. You passed.

Harrybelafonte

Doctor Bob wrote: »

And I suspect it has a lower centre of gravity (or something). The load certainly travels closer to the ground. You should give one a whirl- the sensation is not unlike how I imagine a crane operator works.

I tend to compare the two wheeled cargo bikes to driving a truck. They're set up to carry substantial loads and feel very different between loaded and not loaded. You'll find unloaded that the front wheel has a greater tendency to be influenced by the road surface and find yourself correcting your line every so often. Loaded the whole thing feels a lot more solid and sticks to the road better. THe same goes for your gearing, they have very low gearing obviously so they can still be pushed along with plenty of weight in them.

The handling takes while for most people to get used to, because of the intial disjointed feeling you get. If feels odd turning the handlebars and seeing a wheel about 5ft away move, almost as if there's a time delay. Once you pick up speed it can get a little hairy, I'm talking substantial speed, like downhill. Again the front wheel and the fact that the weight isn't directly over it comes into play here. I tend to compare it to a train, once you get the speed up it's pretty easy to keep it up, but you wanna make sure your brakes are kept in good order, that's a lot of weight to stop the momentum. Once you get your speed up you get used to it you can start leaning into the corners and flying along.

I too am tempted by the Christiana on adverts, but will say this. For city traffic the two wheels are a lot more manoverable (sp?) and you won't get caught behind traffic as much, easier to park up etc. Having 3 gears as someone said is fine if you're on flat or staying within your own area, but if you intend on doing a school run, then on to work, you'll want a lot more gears. The Larry Vs Harry's have the best set up for this (and also are the fastest AFAIK) but the biggest advantage the Christiana have is the amount of space and the practicalities it offers, i.e. a rain cover, the box seats etc. For a run to the school or the shops and home it'd be spot on in any weather.