Engineering for Beginners

G-Money

Not sure exactly how to ask this but I will try.

I am interested in finding out a bit more about engineering, I guess specifically mechnical engineering design and possibly aerodynamics (I'm a big F1 fan).

However I know absolutely nothing about engineering, nothing at all and to be honest I'm quite bad at mathematics (I've posted about this aspect before).

Anyway I was wondering is there any good online resource that would allow me to get a taste of engineering and give me the chance to try it in some sort of e-learning environment?

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I've no clue about engineering or how to design something and was wondering if there's any good online resources that would give me the chance to try it out, without the need for me to have a load of knowledge.

Sorry for the vagueness of the request. I guess I'm just not sure where to start and how to dip my toe in without signing up for some sort of course.

I feel I'd be more interested in the design than being some sort of engineer who has to physically put the stuff together.

BTW Regarding mathematics, I did buy Engineering Mathematics by K.A. Stroud several months ago but haven't really got around to reading it yet

wildefalcon

I'd get stuck into the maths first - engineering is all about maths, from what I gather.

I was kind of thinking about doing the same thing - I've always had an interest in making stuff and would like to be a bit more scientific about it.

Which version of the book do you have? I've the fourth edition, and I've only glanced at it (and closed it again as I was scared).

G-Money

I think I have the fourth edition too. Was interested in it as I'd heard good things and it apparently gives a good grounding in mathematics. However I kind of lost interest a bit and didn't look at it again. I think it reminded me a bit too much of a school book or something.

But like I say, I'm interested in mechnical design and aerodynamics from a Formula 1 perspective and was wondering how they do that. But I've no idea how to test the waters and find out more about it and whether it's something I could do.

Turbulent Bill

If you're an absolutre beginner I'd recommend checking out something like How Stuff Works just to get a rough overview.

I wouldn't get hung up on the maths at the moment, it's just a tool (albeit a very important one!). I'd be more concerned about understanding the general analysis and design process first, then worry about the details later. Fluid mechanics (which aerodynamics is a part of) can be very maths-heavy especially for a beginner, but to start with you only need minimal knowledge.

In F1, the biggest aerodynamic improvements seem to be created by people being creative with the regulations before a season starts (adding or reshaping wings as the rules allow). This obviously takes good analysis skills (to identify where problems are) but also a lot of vision to think of new solutions.

apoeiguq3094y

Turbulent Bill wrote: »

If you're an absolutre beginner I'd recommend checking out something like How Stuff Works just to get a rough overview.

I wouldn't get hung up on the maths at the moment, it's just a tool (albeit a very important one!). I'd be more concerned about understanding the general analysis and design process first, then worry about the details later. Fluid mechanics (which aerodynamics is a part of) can be very maths-heavy especially for a beginner, but to start with you only need minimal knowledge.

In F1, the biggest aerodynamic improvements seem to be created by people being creative with the regulations before a season starts (adding or reshaping wings as the rules allow). This obviously takes good analysis skills (to identify where problems are) but also a lot of vision to think of new solutions.

+1 for the howstuffworks.... it will give you a simple explanation of many engineering examples. www.efunda.com is also good for this kind of thing... its more technical, but will give more insight as you learn more. http://www.efunda.com/formulae/solid_mechanics/beams/casestudy_display.cfm?case=cantilever_uniformload

this gives an example of a simple cantilever beam with a uniform load... its not unlike a front wing on an F1 car, where the air flow would provide a load on the wing causing it to deflect. I think there's even a regulation about how much deflection you can have. This is a big simplification but it might give you some context.

If you want some books, the end of the college year might be a good time to get some second hand.

CatFromHue

i sometimes find doing a search on wikipedia and then following the links to different pages interesting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_aerodynamics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerodynamics

in relation to aerodynamics i found the below pretty useful in college. the mechanics of flight book has no maths in it. introduction to flight does but it is one of the easier texts to read.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/reader/0071263187?_encoding=UTF8&page=29#reader_0071263187

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mechanics-Flight-Dr-R-H-Barnard/dp/1405823593/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1295462714&sr=1-1


i wouldnt recommend getting buying them though but if you know someone in a university they would be in the university library. it doesnt really matter which edition you get.

edit

i just saw this link elsewhere on boards.

it looks exactly like what you are looking for

http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/aeronautics-and-astronautics/

fabbydabby

I love this:

http://i.imgur.com/XVWEp.jpg

Dubh Geannain

double post

Dubh Geannain

I covered alot of Maths during my degree in Electronic Engineering and luckily was able to cope with it.

I followed up with a research Masters where after doing a little bit of investigative mathematics in the modelling and design my project, I found towards the end a lot of trial and error and tweaking took place. And often for reasons unknown, some things worked. I'm talking on the Analogue electronics side. Digital is more straightforward.

Nowadays my previous knowledge of Maths has fallen by the wayside. I'd probably struggle with some basic enough stuff now if it was put in front of me. Sure I use formulas every now and again, but they're really a case of just plugging in the variables. Maybe I'm not an Engineer anymore :eek:

davey101

As far as stroud goes i would stay clear for now, if maths is not a strong point try out the higher level "text and texts" i found them much easier to follow. i also came across these short intro books that i found fantasitc.
http://www.amazon.com/Mathematics-Short-Introduction-Timothy-Gowers/dp/0192853619
they made alot of sense to me when i started my mech eng degree and find that i still go back to them every now and again. there are loads of different ones that describe different aspects and i think as a starting point they are great, because there will be parts you will not understand and these areas give you the incentive to investigate and are kind of a reference point, if you know what i mean.
the MIT link that was posted by CatFromHue is a great source, i have used that site many times and including this one
http://homepage.usask.ca/~drs694/fluidmechanics.htm
although these may be a bit over the top to someone just trying to find their way around. You are probably best to find one area of fluids like "Boundary layer" and start there. as mentioned fluids gets very mathsy! but is a good starting point in terms of mechanical engineering.
Have fun

spideog7

fabbydabby wrote: »

I love this:

http://i.imgur.com/XVWEp.jpg

I think that picture kind of sums it up. But that raises the point then, how many people would actually have done engineering if they knew what it was really like?

IMHO you're better off just getting stuck in, getting things to work and seeing them work and then maybe you'll find a problem or maybe you'll just be really curious as to how it works. Then you go to the maths book and discover that this has all the solutions and explanations.

If (like traditional education) you learn all the solutions and explanations without having any idea of the applications for them you'll probably lose heart and just get bored before you get to apply anything, cause it's nothing more than an exercise in maths. Of course this depends on how basic you're maths skills are, if there's more letters than numbers and you need a dictionary to find out what the symbols mean then you're getting into the engineering stuff, but if you don't know what sin and cos are then stick with the books for another little while.

Now if you're working as an engineer you need to do the research before you do the work but if you just want to learn an get a feel for it I'd say do the work first then do the research on what you're after doing

Unless you have some dogged determination picking up an engineering maths book from the get go will just put you off.

Timmaay

If you are interested in Design you should get a solid modelling/3D CAD program and mess around with making models. Solidworks is the most popular and is very easy to use.

G-Money

Timmaay wrote: »

If you are interested in Design you should get a solid modelling/3D CAD program and mess around with making models. Solidworks is the most popular and is very easy to use.

Anyway of getting a free or trial version of this or other good CAD software?

Turbulent Bill

G-Money wrote: »

Anyway of getting a free or trial version of this or other good CAD software?

Solidworks probably has student licences (if you're a student), check their site. Google Sketchup is supposed to be a good free 3D modeller but I've never used it.

mawk

sketch up is not terrible, fast compared to solidworks. I know some architects that tend to knock things up in sketch up, then import and render in solidworks.
ProE by wildfire is a great kit if you can get your hands in it.

enda1

Mechanical design is not really about drawing pretty pictures. That's what stylists do.

Design is a mathematical based subject where you "design" or engineer a part or system to fulfil requirements of strength, durability, energy absorption, vibrational response etc. etc.

If you are actually interested in design, then a degree from NCAD in industrial design or from a London college would be far more up your street.

Turbulent Bill

enda1 wrote: »

Mechanical design is not really about drawing pretty pictures. That's what stylists do.

Design is a mathematical based subject where you "design" or engineer a part or system to fulfil requirements of strength, durability, energy absorption, vibrational response etc. etc.

If you are actually interested in design, then a degree from NCAD in industrial design or from a London college would be far more up your street.

Mechanical design is a broad area, and the visual presentation is an important part of it. I'm not talking about the aesthetic, "check out the cool shape" part of design, but being able to present your designs effectively in a presentation is crucial to getting them accepted. I've seen plenty of engineers who designed great components but didn't have the CAD skills to present them in an easy-to-visualise way.

enda1

Turbulent Bill wrote: »

Mechanical design is a broad area, and the visual presentation is an important part of it. I'm not talking about the aesthetic, "check out the cool shape" part of design, but being able to present your designs effectively in a presentation is crucial to getting them accepted. I've seen plenty of engineers who designed great components but didn't have the CAD skills to present them in an easy-to-visualise way.

That cool shape, if visible to the customer in the automotive industry will be styled by an artistic professional.

I agree that CAD skills are an important computer skill, just like excel is and word.

Its not engineering though.

Turbulent Bill

enda1 wrote: »

That cool shape, if visible to the customer in the automotive industry will be styled by an artistic professional.

I agree that CAD skills are an important computer skill, just like excel is and word.

Its not engineering though.

Agreed, the visual design of consumer goods is done by industrial designers, mainly because the function can be performed by many different forms - it makes sense to get a visual professional to do a headlight design (for example). There are lots of non-consumer goods though (or cutting-edge technical designs) where how something looks is totally driven by what it has to do, and in that case the engineer has to design everything.

Going back to the OP's query on F1, I'd imagine that if Ferrari could save half a second a lap with a really effective (but butt-ugly) wing design they'd probably use it!

enda1

Turbulent Bill wrote: »

Agreed, the visual design of consumer goods is done by industrial designers, mainly because the function can be performed by many different forms - it makes sense to get a visual professional to do a headlight design (for example). There are lots of non-consumer goods though (or cutting-edge technical designs) where how something looks is totally driven by what it has to do, and in that case the engineer has to design everything.

Going back to the OP's query on F1, I'd imagine that if Ferrari could save half a second a lap with a really effective (but butt-ugly) wing design they'd probably use it!

In each case though, the technical ugly design and the F1 wing, the design is driven by engineering performance and specifications.

In fact the engineer in both cases probably would not even create the CAD but instead hand that over to a technician (under supervision of course), then make changes and countermeasures through design review meetings and prototype test and CAE/CFD test outcomes.

Turbulent Bill

enda1 wrote: »

In each case though, the technical ugly design and the F1 wing, the design is driven by engineering performance and specifications.

In fact the engineer in both cases probably would not even create the CAD but instead hand that over to a technician (under supervision of course), then make changes and countermeasures through design review meetings and prototype test and CAE/CFD test outcomes.

In my place the engineer (me!) does everything, from conceptual design right through to production-ready component data. This is mainly because the firm is relatively small, though even in big companies there's a lot more convergence between the physical design and engineering analysis areas (combined software tools etc.).

who_am_I?

MIT Open courseware has a lot of good learning material,
They have Video lectures of some courses, eg:

http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/aeronautics-and-astronautics/16-01-unified-engineering-i-ii-iii-iv-fall-2005-spring-2006/

http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/mechanical-engineering/2-003-modeling-dynamics-and-control-i-spring-2005/

http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/aeronautics-and-astronautics/16-885j-aircraft-systems-engineering-fall-2005/lecture-notes/

Equium

G-Money wrote: »

Anyway of getting a free or trial version of this or other good CAD software?

You can get free AutoCAD software from autodesk.com. Just sign up as a student (can't remember if you need a college email address) and get whatever you want. Takes forever to download though!

amen

http://i.imgur.com/XVWEp.jpg

thats sums it up. The engineer designed the gun, how it mounts, the swivel system, how to power it, the type of bullets, the enemy detection system etc.

but the guy who assemblies it is really just a technician but a very good one.

When you talk to a lot of people they think the engineer it the technician guy who fixes things and its what a lot of people want to be.

G-Money

I guess what got me interested in this is that I'm mad into F1 and the technology interests me and I liked the idea of designing some component and it helping to increase performance.

However the reality is that mathematics are a huge weak point for me and always have been. It's like my brain easily ceases up once I go beyond some very simple addition and subtraction and I'm talking very simple.

I guess that's what makes me question whether design/engineering would be a suitable field to look into.

davey101

just speaking from my own experience, but i think that once you know what you are doing with maths and the various theorys that you can/will apply to your problem you will use some software package to do the actual working out e.g. matlab.
Dont let the maths scare you, programming will become your friend!

Overheal

Good time to fins this im thinking about it myself. I did software engineering but it was not for me. I grew terribly frustrated when my projects relied on engines which were themselves bugged. Even the damn applied Physics teacher couldn't figure out what was going wrong with our 3D models: the program engine itself was just bugged, our programming code was sound in theory.

But thats the other thing: the most fun I had with programming was when I was projecting physics models. Thats just mechanical engineering, really, isnt it?

I stumbled across a wikipedia page on Mechatronics though and became quite frightened. Though it sounds like a good bit of fun when you can make stuff like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNEOI7bYl3c

That could one day look something closer to what was seen in Iron Man.

MarcusFenix

Just on the CAD side of things, especially the F1 field would make HUGE use of ANSYS for fluid dynamics analysis on potential parts pre-rapid prototyping, probably one of the best tools an engineer can use, especially for proving basic design feasibility.

It might just be preference but in my eyes having all the knowledge on how all the mechanics of flow and stress on bodies is important but really just gives a strong foundation to go on and do things (design-wise) that would take months without CAD. i think both are just as important, but these days ideas need to be presented in a visual manner to convince accountants etc who can't read working drawings.:)

enda1

MarcusFenix wrote: »

Just on the CAD side of things, especially the F1 field would make HUGE use of ANSYS for fluid dynamics analysis on potential parts pre-rapid prototyping, probably one of the best tools an engineer can use, especially for proving basic design feasibility.

It might just be preference but in my eyes having all the knowledge on how all the mechanics of flow and stress on bodies is important but really just gives a strong foundation to go on and do things (design-wise) that would take months without CAD. i think both are just as important, but these days ideas need to be presented in a visual manner to convince accountants etc who can't read working drawings.:)

ANSYS isn't CAD.

FirstHundred

Don't be scared by Stroud. The newest edition has a 12 chapter refresher course at the start going from basic arithmetic to simple calculus. Just start on page 1 and follow along frame by frame.

Do every single exercise and and use the companion website if you have a problem. If you have any questions about exercises and the companion website doesn't have a worked solution, post it on here or on mathhelpforum.com. Let go of any preconceptions you have about your mathematical ability. If you take it one step at a time I guarantee you will surprise yourself. Don't worry if it takes you a year of working an hour a day to get through the book either. That's normal.

There is no point getting deep into engineering topics until you have a solid mathematical foundation. You will just struggle and waste time. If you want to get a decent overview of kind of science involved though, you should get a book called Engineering Science by Bolton.

I hope you get stuck into it. Don't worry if you bang your head against the wall trying to solve certain problems. That's normal too.

FirstHundred

G-Money wrote: »

I guess what got me interested in this is that I'm mad into F1 and the technology interests me and I liked the idea of designing some component and it helping to increase performance.

However the reality is that mathematics are a huge weak point for me and always have been. It's like my brain easily ceases up once I go beyond some very simple addition and subtraction and I'm talking very simple.

I guess that's what makes me question whether design/engineering would be a suitable field to look into.

You will be able to do the maths if you put your mind to it. It sounds like you have a sort of emotional block about it. That's very common. In school it's easy to fall behind in maths because it is a sequential subject unlike, say, history. You're always building on what came before. If you're not sure of a certain point you will have a lot of trouble later on.

The good news is that it's almost certainly not your fault. There are no maths genes that you are lacking. I would bet a lot of money you had discouraging arseholes for teachers and didn't really put much effort into learning it anyway.

Anyway, the thing you need is a really solid foundation. That means learning from the ground up. Stroud is still good, because it starts off that simple, but maybe you should take a look at khanacademy.org. Sign up for the exercises and do the in order. The first question is 1+1=2 and it progresses to basic calculus. The videos on the site are also excellent. The guy is better than any teacher I have seen.

random.stranger

enda1 wrote: »

Mechanical design is not really about drawing pretty pictures. That's what stylists do.

Design is a mathematical based subject where you "design" or engineer a part or system to fulfil requirements of strength, durability, energy absorption, vibrational response etc. etc.

If you are actually interested in design, then a degree from NCAD in industrial design or from a London college would be far more up your street.

Although I know where enda1 is coming from. I don't want you to be put off.

I find that when designing something to solve a problem that has difficult and often conflicting constraints, the real challenge can be to come up with a simple solution.

Although a good solution may not be pretty in the conventional sense, it can have a certain elegance to it that may not be appreciated by the untrained eye. It can be deeply satisfying to come up with elegant solutions to difficult problems.

If you find that you are curious about things around the house, you find yourself fixing things that are broken (and possibly breaking things that worked perfectly), you are probably an engineer in the making. The maths isn't easy, but it can be done (Stroud gets my vote).


Best of luck

PS
If you have cable/satellite there are a lot of documentaries related to engineering as well as programmes like "scrapheap challenge" and "how it's made". I know scrapheap challenge is a long way from F1, but it's all about problem solving and creative thinking.

colcar

hi, im hoping to go to college next year and do energy engineering in galway have applied for both the courses in NUIG and GMIT just wondering if anybody could shed any light on which one is better or what differences there are in each. any info greatly appreciated..