Munster v London Irish, Thomond Park, KO 15:30

some_dose

No doubt that there will be a bitter, bitter taste lingering in the mouths after last weekend. This match could go either way - Munster will go out all guns blazing and demolish LI or they may throw their hat at it. I think it will be the former.

What I'd like to see:

1. Du Preez
2. Varley
3. Mushy
4. Nagle
5. PO'C
6. Coughlan
7. Wally
8. Leamy
9. TO'L (I'd usually pick Strings but I think TO'L will be chomping at the bit to stamp his name on the No.9 jersey for the 6 Nations)
10. RO'G
11. Hurley
12. Mafi
13. Earls
14. Howlett
15. Warick

I'd love to see a good few of the youngsters on the bench but I can't see it happening tbh. The inclusion of Nagle in the squad is a radical enough change for McGahon and I wouldn't be expecting him to change to much else.

CiaranMT

Put Coughlan at 8, where he belongs. Leamy was very poor there against Toulon, and Coughlan is out of position at 6.

Start Sherry.

Start Darragh Hurley.

J. Murphy has to be dropped after those non-tackles.

some_dose

CiaranMT wrote: »

Put Coughlan at 8, where he belongs. Leamy was very poor there against Toulon, and Coughlan is out of position at 6.

Start Sherry.

Start Darragh Hurley.

J. Murphy has to be dropped after those non-tackles.

On thinking about it, you are right. Just goes to show that I fell into the same old habit of picking the old guard Sherry definitely has potential and is very dynamic in the loose. It would be interesting to see if Darragh Hurley could hack it at this level too. If we are thinking along those lines so, what about Zebo on the wing instead of Howlett?

CiaranMT

some_dose wrote: »

On thinking about it, you are right. Just goes to show that I fell into the same old habit of picking the old guard Sherry definitely has potential and is very dynamic in the loose. It would be interesting to see if Darragh Hurley could hack it at this level too. If we are thinking along those lines so, what about Zebo on the wing instead of Howlett?

Sure it's a non-game, they may as well give experience and game time to those that need it. We know what Varley brings, and it's a perfect opportunity to give Sherry more game time in a game of good quality. Same RE Du Preez and Hurley, although I'd be tempted to move Hurley across instead of Buckely/Hayes.

Is Zebo included in the HEC squad? Good shout if he is.

some_dose

CiaranMT wrote: »

Same RE Du Preez and Hurley, although I'd be tempted to move Hurley across instead of Buckely/Hayes.

Is Zebo included in the HEC squad? Good shout if he is.

Zebo isn't atm, but fingers crossed for next year.

I would be more inclined to play Hurley at TH as I feel Du Preez has played solidly enough since he joined. Hurley playing well at TH is a godd thing as a) if he turns out to be decent, he's another TH option for the future and b) him plying well might give Mushy a kick up the hole and force him to up his game.

profitius

A few years ago Darragh Hurley was being talked about as a very exciting prospect. He's been riddled with injuries since. If he can stay fit he could easily be better than Du preez.

CiaranMT

profitius wrote: »

A few years ago Darragh Hurley was being talked about as a very exciting prospect. He's been riddled with injuries since. If he can stay fit he could easily be better than Du preez.

Buckely, definitely, but maybe not Du Preez. Granted he's far better in the loose (was like a cannon on crashballs against Ulster), but Du Preez shored up the scrum when he came up last year and has been solid this year.

murphym7

CiaranMT wrote: »

Sure it's a non-game, they may as well give experience and game time to those that need it. We know what Varley brings, and it's a perfect opportunity to give Sherry more game time in a game of good quality. Same RE Du Preez and Hurley, although I'd be tempted to move Hurley across instead of Buckely/Hayes.

Is Zebo included in the HEC squad? Good shout if he is.

I would not have considered it a non game - we have a chance of heading into the Amlin. I would enjoy competeting in that for the next couple of months, keep our interest in Europe up. Plus the chance of playing against the likes of Clermont, Stade and Wasps would certainly give us all an excuse to head to the pub and roar at a TV for a couple of hours.

I totally agree with including Sherry, he impressed me when I've seen him this year. Can't recall his lineout accuracy, but it must not have been bad if I can't recall it. It is his ball carrying that blew me away.

We can't forget that we are still developing Varley too, so half the game each would be around right, maybe with Sherry coming on. Its amazing how quickly we have gotten used to Varley starting.

The Rooster

While of course he can't dictate who starts and where they start, I wonder has Kidney put in a request to see either Earls or Murphy at full back if possible (Schmidt admitted last week that he got a call about the possibility of playing Fitzgerald at 15).

Personally I'd like to see Earls on the wing.

murphym7

The Rooster wrote: »

While of course he can't dictate who starts and where they start, I wonder has Kidney put in a request to see either Earls or Murphy at full back if possible (Schmidt admitted last week that he got a call about the possibility of playing Fitzgerald at 15).

Personally I'd like to see Earls on the wing.

I'm seeing Earls role as more on the wing also. I am glad he was tried at Centre but the man just isnt big enough I don't think. Also he hasn;t been the best off loader of the ball IMO. If they bulk him up to play in the centre he will lose all whats good about him.

thomond2006

Bit early for match thread OP?

Anyone know the story with Warwick, I heard he came off with a bang on the head?

CiaranMT

thomond2006 wrote: »

Bit early for match thread OP?

Anyone know the story with Warwick, I heard he came off with a bang on the head?

He should've been taken off when he first got the bang, he couldn't stand up straight for 5 minutes after it. Haven't heard anything since.

thomond2006

Few Changes For Saturday
20 January 2011, 10:28 am
By Pat Geraghty


The Munster squad shows just three changes in personnel from last week's squad, for the Heineken Cup game with London Irish at Thomond park Stadium on Saturday.

Donnacha Ryan misses out having injured a hamstring after coming on as a replacement, while Billy Holland and Tommy O'Donnell are named in Munster's British & Irish starting XV for the game against Esher on Friday (Garryowen FC 7.30pm), with Holland set to skipper the side.

Munster Squad:
Wian Du Preez, Darragh Hurley, Tony Buckley, John Hayes, Mike Sherry, Damien Varley, Donncha O'Callaghan, Paul O'Connell, Mick O'Driscoll, Ian Nagle, Niall Ronan, James Coughlan, David Wallace, Denis Leamy,

Tomas O'Leary, Peter Stringer, Scott Deasy, Ronan O'Gara, Johne Murphy, Sam Tuitupou, Tom Gleeson, Keith Earls, Lifeimi Mafi, Denis Hurley, Doug Howlett, Paul Warwick

http://www.munsterrugby.ie/news/8552.php

So Ian Nagle was added as cover for Donnacha Ryan.

I'd like to see (won't happen in a million years though):

Hurley, Varley, Buckley, Nagle, POC, Leamy, Wallace, Coughlan;
TOL, ROG, Mafi, J Murphy, Earls, Howlett, Deasy

Bench: Sherry, Du Preez, Hayes, MOD, Ronan, Stringer, Warwick*, Tuitupou

*Assuming Warwick is ok after he got a bang on the head last week.

Cpt_Blackbeard

thomond2006 wrote: »

So Ian Nagle was added as cover for Donnacha Ryan.

I'd like to see (won't happen in a million years though):

Hurley, Varley, Buckley, Nagle, POC, Leamy, Wallace, Coughlan;
TOL, ROG, Mafi, J Murphy, Earls, Howlett, Deasy

Bench: Sherry, Du Preez, Hayes, MOD, Ronan, Stringer, Warwick*, Tuitupou

*Assuming Warwick is ok after he got a bang on the head last week.

Agree with the team except Murphy at 12. Alot of people seem to remember him playing very well with the 12 jersey on his back earlier in the season, but he didn't actually play 12, he was at fullback for the majority of the match iirc.

I'd put Mafi in at 12 and play Hurley ahead of Murphy.

PhatPiggins

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Agree with the team except Murphy at 12. Alot of people seem to remember him playing very well with the 12 jersey on his back earlier in the season, but he didn't actually play 12, he was at fullback for the majority of the match iirc.

I'd put Mafi in at 12 and play Hurley ahead of Murphy.

I'd say he means Murphy at 13 to be honest. Murphy looked decent at 13 earlier in the season. He really has been a good signing.

Cpt_Blackbeard

PhatPiggins wrote: »

I'd say he means Murphy at 13 to be honest. Murphy looked decent at 13 earlier in the season. He really has been a good signing.

Don't think so. There have been alot of people calling for Murphy and Earls because it worked in the pre season. He has been poor in recent weeks, missing alot of tackles when closing down kicks

Risteard

Munster: J Murphy; D Howlett, K Earls, L Mafi, D Hurley; R O'Gara, T O'Leary; W du Preez, D Varley, J Hayes; M O'Driscoll, P O'Connell; D Wallace, N Ronan, D Leamy capt. Replacements: M Sherry, D Hurley, T Buckley, D O'Callaghan, J Coughlan, P Stringer, S Deasy, T Gleeson.

No Ian Nagle and John Hayes starting. Niall Ronan starting.

Would have liked to have seen Darragh Hurley and Buckley. And Nagle alongside POC though MOD has done well this year, we should be looking to play some of the young players that have really looked good for us this season.

CouchSmart

A good performance from Murphy at fullback could see him starting there for the Wolfhounds and then perhaps Ireland. I wonder if Kidney had a word - "Don't risk Warwick, why not give Murphy a go?"

Risteard

I don't even know how Warwick was able to play on for the rest of the half last week, I was at it and saw him getting up. He looked like someone who's after having a few pints. Was kind of wobbling and steadying himself with the medics.

CouchSmart

Risteard wrote: »

I don't even know how Warwick was able to play on for the rest of the half last week, I was at it and saw him getting up. He looked like someone who's after having a few pints. Was kind of wobbling and steadying himself with the medics.

Ye, it looked pretty bad. That being said if this was a do or die game I think Warwick may have 'recovered' in time.

CatFromHue

i wonder if doc has been dropped. this is still an important game for munster.

the amlin cup is nothing to be sniffed at and im sure financially would offset not going further in the heineken.

murphy had a shocker last week so this will be a big game for him before the international break.

no nagle in the squad either. if i were him id start to pay attention to the offers from elsewhere. this team just reinforces where he stands with munster.

smurphy29

CatFromHue wrote: »

i wonder if doc has been dropped. this is still an important game for munster.

The clue is in the fact that he's on the bench! Of course he's been fropped.

buck65

Of course o Callaghan is dropped. And rightly so. Sorry to see Hayes starting. Back row looks a mess, Wallace at 6? Not convinced if Ronan is playing well enough for inclusion either. Nagle should be on the bench for O Callaghan also. Hope to see Hurley and Buckley on at half time along with Gleeson who deserves a shot at the 13 jersey. Earls isn't exactly lighting up the world at centre this season.
Dodgy selections all over the place, depends if LI show up with intent.

bleg

Bring young up and coming player into squad... pick Mick O Driscoll. The mind boggles.

some_dose

Hugely ridiculous team IMO. It's as if McGahon learned absolutely nothing from last week. Talk about flogging a dead horse. I thought there was a brief moment of hope when Nagle was included in the squad but of course we were expecting too much if we actually thought we would get to see him play.

Don't get me wrong, I think Micko fully deserves to be there ahead of DO'C but this would have been the perfect opportunity for McGahon that he has finally seen what we all know- the lack of new young players coming through. I mean, Hayes is starting: HAYES!!!! The man spent more time going backward than forward last week. And as for Ronan, it's obvious to the dogs on the street that he isn't up to this standard and should be nowhere near the starting 15.

Frustration isn't the word for it :mad:

thomond2006

Risteard wrote: »

I don't even know how Warwick was able to play on for the rest of the half last week, I was at it and saw him getting up. He looked like someone who's after having a few pints. Was kind of wobbling and steadying himself with the medics.

Unfortunately I was like that last night (I still am now tbh), no match preview this week lads. :pac:

A lot of awful selections by McGahan. Coughlan dropped for Ronan and Hayes retained, WTF?

LONDON IRISH:
15. Topsy Ojo*; 14. Adam Thompstone; 13. Elvis Seveali’i’*; 12. Seilala Mapusua*(Captain); 11. Sailosi Tagicakibau*; 10. Dan Bowden; 9. Darren Allinson;
1. Alex Corbisiero; 2. James Buckland; 3. Faan Rautenbach*; 4. Nick Kennedy*; 5. Matt Garvey; 6. George Stowers*; 7. Jamie Gibson*; 8. Chris Hala’ufia*

Replacements:

16. Brian Blaney; 17. Dan Murphy; 18. Paulica Ion*; 19. Richard Thorpe; 20. Kieran Roche 21. Marcus Watson; 22. Ryan Lamb; 23. Paul Hodgson*

Cpt_Blackbeard

Disappointing team selection.

Nagle should leave for Northhampton if there is an offer on the table or he'll end up having a career like Ryan. I guess that being added to the squad was

One of Hurley or Sherry should have gotten a start, perferably Hurley.

Buckley is leagues ahead of Hayes in all aspects of the game and needs gametime to work on his scrummaging however Hayes does deserve one last HC start.

DOC deserves to be properly dropped, Nagle has more than earned his spot. He should be 5th choice lock in current form.

Murphy has been missing alot of tackles when chasing down kicks along with his attempt last week, he is playing poorly. Deasy deserved a chance at 15 however coming on for Mafi would be my choice.

Happy to see Gleeson involved. He should be brought on ~50 for Murphy with Earls going to 15. Earls earned a Lions call up at 15 and thrives in the space.

The backrow is a mess. Give Leamy the 6 jersey. Its his best position.

The team is a step in the right direction though, pity that its only a baby step.

SomeFool

I'm actually happy enough with the selection, I think Ronan might be the right call against LI, its a must win game imo, we need to be playing european rugby in March/April/May if possible and the Challenge cup can offer us this. I'm all for promoting Nagle too but sending him out against a second row paring like LI's, with all the expectation on him might do more harm than good. If I could make one change it would be the bull for Buckley.

danthefan

I'm wondering what influence Kidney may or may not have had here.

Murphy to fullback.

Hayes kept "ticking over".

TOL starting.

MOD starting.

For me it's an extremely surprising selection, definitely not what I would have gone for.

[Jackass]

Should be a tight game. Predictions?

Cpt_Blackbeard

danthefan wrote: »

I'm wondering what influence Kidney may or may not have had here.

Murphy to fullback.

Hayes kept "ticking over".

TOL starting.

MOD starting.

For me it's an extremely surprising selection, definitely not what I would have gone for.

MOD deserves to be starting. He has been brilliant this season. Nagle should be on the bench ahead of DOC though.

LuckyGent88

They are probably startin Hayes because it will be (or at least should be) his last Heineken Cup game in Thomand Park.

At least DOC has been punished for his stupid yellow card last week and MOD deserves to start anyway.

LuckyGent88

LuckyGent88 wrote: »

They are probably startin Hayes because it will be (or at least should be) his last Heineken Cup game in Thomand Park.

A ten minute cameo at the end, with the game over and done would be a far better decision.

If he is starting based on the above, then that would make me think that McGahan has no interest in the Amlin, because he is using the game as little more than a PR exercise.

PhatPiggins

Deleted User wrote: »

A ten minute cameo at the end, with the game over and done would be a far better decision.

If he is starting based on the above, then that would make me think that McGahan has no interest in the Amlin, because he is using the game as little more than a PR exercise.

Very true but hopefully it'll serve a second purpose of giving Tony Buckley the considerable kick up the hole he deserves for his laziness

[Jackass]

No one for predictions then?

I think there'll be a Munster backlash her, and I think somehow they'll hammer LI and advance o the Amlin.

Cpt_Blackbeard

[Jackass] wrote: »

No one for predictions then?

I think there'll be a Munster backlash her, and I think somehow they'll hammer LI and advance o the Amlin.

I expect a Munster win (don't ask how) because its what I've come to expect/demand in pretty much every game we play.

The team are playing terribly, with even worse tactics but I can't see anything but a win. At least a loss should guarantee a new coaching team though..

The last time we lost in TP in the HC, we knocked the stadium and built a new one, the money isn't there to do that this time :cool:.

thomond2006

I wish Hayes would move to his auntie and uncle's in Belair.

AboveandBeyond

In fairness to Hayes for all the criticism hes getting hes playing a hell of a lot better than Buckley. Ditto for Mick O'Driscoll starting who is the form second row for Munster...why is Mick O'Driscoll's age such an issue when O'Callaghan is older and his age is never mentioned?
I can see Munster coming out and putting 20+ points on London Irish. Munster are at home and are desperate to pull out a top performance in front of their fans and fight for their places for the 6 Nations. They want to disprove the doubters and make it up to home crowd for their performance last week. London Irish meanwhile have nothing to play for and won't be riled up for the game like Munster. London Irish have lost more games than they've won in the premiership this season and are really poor. For all the talk of Munster's "group of death" both London Irish and Toulon are actually playing very poor this year in their respective competitions and Munster could have very easily progressed had the right selections been made. I really want O'Connell to put in another massive performance the sooner hes back the better.

some_dose

AboveandBeyond wrote: »

In fairness to Hayes for all the criticism hes getting hes playing a hell of a lot better than Buckley.

Is today opposite day? No one told me!!!

I hope Munster put the Exiles to the sword here. However, if Munster put in a lack-lustre performance or, God forbid, lose, then at the end of the match McGahan should be presented with a one-way ticket home. Munster cannot afford to mess up today.

While my heart thinks the score will be Munster by at least 20, my head is telling me that it will be a close one

AboveandBeyond

some_dose wrote: »

Is today opposite day? No one told me!!!

See Buckley v Ospreys for an example. Hayes is a poor scrummager but Buckley is definitely worse.

some_dose

AboveandBeyond wrote: »

See Buckley v Ospreys for an example. Hayes is a poor scrummager but Buckley is definitely worse.

Hayes cannot srummage at all - the dogs on th street know that
Mushy is not good at it but he puts in a better attempt at it than Hayes.

And Mushy is better around the park with ball-in-hand.

PhatPiggins

some_dose wrote: »

Hayes cannot srummage at all - the dogs on th street know that
Mushy is not good at it but he puts in a better attempt at it than Hayes.

And Mushy is better around the park with ball-in-hand.

Hayes has better technique then Buckley, who has none at all and just relies on brute strength.

some_dose

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Hayes has better technique then Buckley, who has none at all and just relies on brute strength.

If you look at the Toulon game, Hayes got murdered in the scrum. Buckley didn't do well either but nowhere near as bad as Hayes. And no one can argue that Hayes is better than Buckley around the park.

PhatPiggins

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Hayes has better technique then Buckley, who has none at all and just relies on brute strength.

If we could mix the two somehow it would be ~fine.

Hayes "could" scrummage, but now certainly doesn't have the power for it.

Buckley can't scrummage, but certainly has the power to do it if he could.

PhatPiggins

some_dose wrote: »

If you look at the Toulon game, Hayes got murdered in the scrum. Buckley didn't do well either but nowhere near as bad as Hayes. And no one can argue that Hayes is better than Buckley around the park.

Buckley came on against a tired pack and a different front row to the one that started. If your basing your opinion of the relative merits of both players on the last game I think you're delusional.

Buckley has been largely less then useless this season and personally I pretty disappointed with him considering the faith,investment, time and patience that has been granted to him by Ireland and Munster the past 3 years

PhatPiggins

Deleted User wrote: »

If we could mix the two somehow it would be ~fine.

Hayes "could" scrummage, but now certainly doesn't have the power for it.

Buckley can't scrummage, but certainly has the power to do it if he could.

Thats an excellent post emmet and sums up the two perfectly in my mind.

People see Hayes and go "big guy, must be powerful but has poor technique" when in reality its the opposite.

This annoys me even more about Buckley because he has all the raw materials to be savage but refuses to learn

some_dose

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Buckley came on against a tired pack and a different front row to the one that started. If your basing your opinion of the relative merits of both players on the last game I think you're delusional.

Buckley has been largely less then useless this season and personally I pretty disappointed with him considering the faith,investment, time and patience that has been granted to him by Ireland and Munster the past 3 years

Ok based on your thoughts so, would you start Hayes ahead of Buckley today?

Monty Burnz

Anyone got a good stream for this?

PhatPiggins

some_dose wrote: »

Ok based on your thoughts so, would you start Hayes ahead of Buckley today?

Logic would say drop Buckley in an effort to spur him on to pick up his game but its never worked before.

I would have given one of the young lads a start to be honest.

AboveandBeyond

PhatPiggins wrote: »

I would have given one of the young lads a start to be honest.

Agreed. They cant be any worse than Hayes or Buckley at scrummanging anyway and have the potential to be far superior players.

some_dose

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Logic would say drop Buckley in an effort to spur him on to pick up his game but its never worked before.

I would have given one of the young lads a start to be honest.

+1 I'd much prefer to start Hurley at TH tbh