Trolling, good or bad?

krd

How do you know someone you think is trolling does not actually sincerely hold those beliefs.

Accusations of trolling are more commonly used to shutdown or frame the discourse in such a way as to avoid cosy consensuses from being disturbed.

Genuine trolling is rare. If you believe everyone who disagrees with you is trolling, you have your head firmly stuck in the sand. You're also probably one of these people who thinks anyone who doesn't agree with your opinions or views of the world is either autistic, lacking in social skills, or evil.

There just isn't that much real trolling there. There's lots of dishonesty and concealment - but people are consistent in their mendacity.

crazym02

Trolls are just really annoying. I am guessing that trolls are just really lonely, sad people who are very insecure about themselves so feel the need to try to bully others in order to make themselves feel better.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Generally trolls don't post to get genuine discussion nor have they any interest in broadening their knowledge by considering points made, they post to get a reaction. It's not the topic that is of interest to them, it's the reaction of other posters - and tends to show up fairly quickly in most instances, even when they are given the benefit of the doubt or just humoured...most also exhibit the internet equivalent of "small man syndrome".

Except by that logic you wouldn't recognise a good troll now would you?

the_syco

An example of trolling:
Myeself and other people are condemning the senseless bombing of the PSNI officer. One of the lads comes in with:

**** them. If you're gonna occupy a foreign country you should be aware of the risks.

This is said to get a response. This is what is called trolling.

Bottle_of_Smoke

the_syco wrote: »

An example of trolling:
Myeself and other people are condemning the senseless bombing of the PSNI officer. One of the lads comes in with:

This is said to get a response. This is what is called trolling.

I honestly don't think that's neccesarily trolling. There's a fair amount of people with that view.

This is trolling:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=65493307

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=58202030#post58202030

Now these aren't the types of trolling the OP is talking about; Sheeps and I were taking the piss and basically being dicks. The OP basically means playing devils advocate without letting people know that's what you're doing. I think that's fine to be honest because you may get better responses.

the_syco

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

I honestly don't think that's neccesarily trolling. There's a fair amount of people with that view.

All people on the Facebook page were condemning the attack. Someone comes along saying that they deserve it. I see this as trolling. Fun fact for the day: said person has been banned from at least 5 forums here for trolling

Ickle Magoo

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Except by that logic you wouldn't recognise a good troll now would you?

I did say it shows up pretty quickly so I'm going to have to disagree that trolls aren't easily recognised...by virtue of not wanting discussion, instead getting far more enjoyment from the rise they get out of other posters they tend not to be able to resist upping the ante and showing their true colours sooner or later - there are also the dire death by a thousand cut types but they are more universal annoyances than good trolls.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

I did say it shows up pretty quickly so I'm going to have to disagree that trolls aren't easily recognised...by virtue of not wanting discussion, instead getting far more enjoyment from the rise they get out of other posters they tend not to be able to resist upping the ante and showing their true colours sooner or later - there are also the dire death by a thousand cut types but they are more universal annoyances than good trolls.

Again, you wouldn't realise who's 'good trolling' - all the ones you've caught out have been the typical getting a rise types by definition.

Though say someone genuinely wanted to see how people felt about an issue, you can get better responses by claiming you are affected by the issue rather than saying 'how would you feel if....'

Ickle Magoo

It's not even a case of ones I've "caught out"...some think they are too smart to show up on radar but heavy handed or death by a thousand cuts, they do stand out from your average poster. :cool:

Bottle_of_Smoke

Are you refusing to see my point or just not getting it?

Ickle Magoo

I was just thinking the same.

Edited to add:

Let's face it, it's a pejorative term and your point comes down to how the nuances of trolling are being subjectively defined..by you. For instance, there may be a greyer area around people who enjoy colourful debate on emotive issues but I wouldn't necessarily define them as trolls unless it was a common MO; whether just on that topic or even just in a particular forum/s and I'd usually consider playing devil's advocate a legitimate position in a discussion.

tawnyowl

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

I honestly don't think that's neccesarily trolling. There's a fair amount of people with that view.

Sadly, this is true.

This is trolling:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=65493307

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=58202030#post58202030

Now these aren't the types of trolling the OP is talking about; Sheeps and I were taking the piss and basically being dicks. The OP basically means playing devils advocate without letting people know that's what you're doing. I think that's fine to be honest because you may get better responses.

The first example is plausible because there are people out there who are that confused!

tawnyowl

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

I did say it shows up pretty quickly so I'm going to have to disagree that trolls aren't easily recognised...by virtue of not wanting discussion, instead getting far more enjoyment from the rise they get out of other posters they tend not to be able to resist upping the ante and showing their true colours sooner or later - there are also the dire death by a thousand cut types but they are more universal annoyances than good trolls.

Not always the case - the above could describe someone who has a bee in their bonnet about a particular topic. Some years ago someone joined a web forum I was involved in at the time and they got quite obsessed with quantum mechanics, saying that although quantum phenomena existed, that quantum theory was wrong. They didn't come up with any scientific arguments against it or any thought experiments that might shed light on the topic (pun unintended).

Their objection was never coherently expressed, though at a guess it might have been philosophically unpalatable. (Said person claimed to be an Objectivist.)

Now other people have had philosophical objections to quantum mechanics - Einstein famously did, though at least he took a scientific approach, such as proposing the EPR thought experiment instead of just repeatedly saying it was wrong.

In the end, the contributor left, leaving behind the opinion that they were, at the very least, a crank.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

I was just thinking the same.

Edited to add:

Let's face it, it's a pejorative term and your point comes down to how the nuances of trolling are being subjectively defined..by you. For instance, there may be a greyer area around people who enjoy colourful debate on emotive issues but I wouldn't necessarily define them as trolls unless it was a common MO; whether just on that topic or even just in a particular forum/s and I'd usually consider playing devil's advocate a legitimate position in a discussion.

Well yes of course, that's what the thread is about, that's why I said "good troll"

So I even though I have no issue with someone posting up a fake OP to get insight on how people react, they are still trolls by virtue of posting something that isn't true.

mcmoustache

I think that there can be positive uses of trolling. For example you might want to assume a contrary position and then follow it to its daft conclusion (reductio ad absurdum) to illustrate the daftness of a particular view without being insulting or hostile.

A while back I made a post in the paranormal forum. In it, I adopted the point of view of an expert on ouija boards and channeling (link here). It was trolling in the sense that it ripped the piss out of proponents of ouija boards in a satirical way but the thread at that point was the usual skeptic versus believer debate with one side asking for evidence and the other providing anecdotes.

The troll post was a good natured way of looking at the phenomenon from another angle without seeing the same tired arguments from the two entrenched sides. The post had plenty of hints that it wasn't to be taken too seriously but at the same time, I tried not to be disrespectful to beliefs that I consider to be retarded.

My intent with the post was that it would be read by both sides because sceptic v believer threads have a tendency to end in hostile sniping and people not really considering each other's positions. I think that the post had enough meat on it to give believers food for thought while at the same time providing a giggle to anyone who spotted the satirical nature of it.

Admittedly, there was also an element of piss-taking which isn't really allowed there but I suppose that's also part of being a troll post. I did have to point out to a poster that it was satirical and he/she got a little upset but I think that this person was in the minority. In all I think that the troll post made a positive contribution to the debate.

What I'm getting at is that there are forms of trolling that don't make people restless or offend anyone and despite being funny to some, offer something useful. Most trolling is fairly crap but when done right, it can be quite positive.

For what it's worth, Sheeps's astrology trolling in the astronomy forum gave ma a laugh but I don't think it raised any good points or contributed anything to anything other than the fun of seeing the natives get restless. That kind of trolling, while funny, doesn't have any positive value for a forum.

wellboytoo

How would a board for Trolls go? imagine that,