Why does the Irish Education system force me to learn subjects that I wont need for m

thisisadamh

A friend and I have been talking recently and we think it is stupid that we have to learn subjects that we dont need for university. For example, 3 languages??? For a course in Physics? 3 languages for most courses. Personally I hate learning languages, I dont intend to touch languages after the leaving cert, so why do I have to learn them and why to colleges require them for courses that have nothing to do with them?

What is everyone else's view?

Wolfe Tone

Cause everyone hates schoolkids

jennyoo

C'est la vie bud :cool:

mikemac

What if you're a brilliant physicist and get recruited by CERN in Switzerland, the languages will be handy then

There is a fair chance you'll be emigrating anyway when you finish up

The Waltzing Consumer

Because you are a child, and 100% of adults will tell you that being able to speak a foreign language is a fantastic tool and can create more opportunities for you, be it travel, living abroad or employment.

Scarydoll

Whats m?

Not planning to emigrate so!

galwayrush

Gotta learn those foreign languages, your future may not me in another english speaking country.:rolleyes:

kev9100

Because secondary education is not supposed to let you do your favourite subjects just because you like them. Its meant to give a broad base of knowledge so you have more oppurtunities in the future. I would change Irish into an option and stop it being mandatory though.

thisisadamh

Deleted User wrote: »

Not planning to emigrate so!

If I do emigrate I will choose an english speaking country like the US, UK, South Africa etc

The Waltzing Consumer

thisisadamh wrote: »

If I do emigrate I will choose an english speaking country like the US, UK, South Africa etc

Well, if you go to the US, Spanish is increasing in popularity so you may have to learn that. South Africa has 11 official languages so again, you may have to learn a language so getting some of the basic methods of learning a language in school may be a good thing :rolleyes:

thisisadamh

Scarydoll wrote: »

Whats m?

*most university courses* I did not know that there was a character limit for the title

TiGeR KiNgS

how else are employers going to sort out people like OP from the smart kids ? It wouldnt be much of a system if everyone just did the thing they can tolerate most

smk89

Its the Irish way, it was like that for myself, my father. But his father had a better system, but thats the english for you

Mountainsandh

When I was your age, I hated onions, now I like them.
When I was your age, I wanted to be an archeologist, now I'm not.
When I was your age, I lived in a town bigger than Dublin, loved it, and never wanted to leave. Now I'm living here in Ireland, away from my home country, and in a remote countryside cottage.
You don't know what you'll want when you'll be "bigga", so you just learn what you're offered, and come back to us in 15 years.
And best of luck with them years btw.

Pace2008

feelingstressed wrote: »

What if you're a brilliant physicist and get recruited by CERN in Switzerland, the languages will be handy then

From what I've heard, most decent jobs in physics are indeed outside Ireland so you might actually be onto something.

Not sure if English is the lingua franca amongst scientists, though, or if one or more foreign languages would be useful.

You certainly won't be needing Irish anyway.

SarahBM

I agree, did french and irish in school (honours french and pass irish) and never use either. Im a scientist.
the purpose of secondary school is to stress you out and make you think its the end of the world.
truth is college is soooo different, totally different system of learning.

but because you you cant vote or change government policy when your in secondary school, you are stuck my friend.

there is a light that end of the tunnel, and its not the train. hang in there, it will be worth it when you get your course and finally get to study the subjects you want

krudler

"English? pfft I'm never going to England"

Pace2008

SarahBM wrote: »

I agree, did french and irish in school (honours french and pass irish) and never use either. Im a scientist.
the purpose of secondary school is to stress you out and make you think its the end of the world.
truth is college is soooo different, totally different system of learning.

****ing joke that someone studying 3 science subjects in school has to set valuable time aside to learn the subtleties that differentiate the Finíocht and the Ruríocht if they want to get into many of the better colleges.

thisisadamh

SarahBM wrote: »

I agree, did french and irish in school (honours french and pass irish) and never use either. Im a scientist.
the purpose of secondary school is to stress you out and make you think its the end of the world.
truth is college is soooo different, totally different system of learning.

but because you you cant vote or change government policy when your in secondary school, you are stuck my friend.

there is a light that end of the tunnel, and its not the train. hang in there, it will be worth it when you get your course and finally get to study the subjects you want

Thanks I am doing honours french and pass irish as well. I wish I could start a revolution against the system lol, protest!

And people in this forum are saying that you need to do things you dont like. But what about the people who like languages and hate sciences. Science subjects are not compulsory for college courses in languages. So those students can just take loads of languages and no sciences and have a party. Where I am stuck with still having to do languages!

starlit

To have a variety of knowledge. I suppose to get a broad education. I know its a pain that you have to do subjects you are forced to learn but some subjects would be required for going to college. Students are lucky to have options subjects at all in their leaving cert some might have a choice others might not depending what school they go to. Some have to do a foreign language and have no choice others might. The likes of Irish I think should be an option, maybe do it as a subject but not as an exam subject but its an exam subject cause colleges require it there is no getting away from it, if you want to go into a job that requires Irish then no luck there I'm afraid. As Irish citizens its a requirement. The other solution is the option of doing a foreign language instead of Irish. Its unfair I know but in the real world it might stand too you!

BASHIR

Variety is the spice of life, I regret giving up the language I was studying. It opens up so many more opportunities to you.

MultiUmm

I'm the opposite to you OP, I like languages (bar Irish) and I can't stand maths.

I agree with you on some level, if you have an adequate grasp of English to be able to communicate effectively and to be able to understand what you're being taught in physics, writing essays about the techniques of Shakespeare seems pointless. As for Irish, well, the practical use of it is virtually non-existent after school unless you intend teaching it or becoming a politician in a rural area.

A modern language however has its uses. What if you decide to live abroad in a European country, a basic grasp of the native language would be handy to build upon, no? It would make you look more attractive to prospective employers if you at least knew some of the language of the country you live in, as opposed to staring at them blankly when they speak to you in French.

Perhaps it wouldn't be a bad idea to make more subjects optional after the Junior Cert, especially Irish, and in a subjects place you can take up another that's more relevant to what you want to do after you finish school. It seems to make more sense to me rather than forcing me to do a language I won't use after the leaving cert (Irish) and a subject I know I won't do anything further with after I leave school (maths).

MultiUmm

thisisadamh wrote: »

Thanks I am doing honours french and pass irish as well. I wish I could start a revolution against the system lol, protest!

And people in this forum are saying that you need to do things you dont like. But what about the people who like languages and hate sciences. Science subjects are not compulsory for college courses in languages. So those students can just take loads of languages and no sciences and have a party. Where I am stuck with still having to do languages!

The system is slightly more unfair on people who are more logically minded as opposed to those geared towards languages, but trust me, there's no party for anyone. :pac:

Copper23

thisisadamh wrote: »

A friend and I have been talking recently and we think it is stupid that we have to learn subjects that we dont need for university. For example, 3 languages??? For a course in Physics? 3 languages for most courses. Personally I hate learning languages, I dont intend to touch languages after the leaving cert, so why do I have to learn them and why to colleges require them for courses that have nothing to do with them?

What is everyone else's view?

Yeah, cos school has nothing to do with teaching you stuff you might need in the real world or giving you a general higher level of intelligence.

Heck you're right, I'm a computer programmer, I didn't need any of it. Sure we write everything in code, I didn't even need English now come to think of it, why did the "man" force me to learn English, complete waste of time.

thisisadamh

MultiUmm wrote: »

there's no party for anyone. :pac:

I know, it was just a figure of speech, or something like that, anyway it was not meant literally.

jimthemental

While I love the Irish language I really hated the fact that it took up so much school time I could've used to get better at french instead which may be of use to me in industry. My french is now almost passable whereas my irish is absolutely dirt poor.

Wagon

I had to do French in school. Was told it would be extremely useful in the future. Ended up living in Italy for about a year... I appreciated the way everyone could see into the future and lied to me about it

Also had to learn Irish to get into college to do a course in computers...again, i thank the education system to forcing me to do subjects i was ****e at and limiting my points...

If you really want to learn a new language in the future, you will. You'll learn anything you're really interested in anyway.

In answer to your question, i don't see the sense in it either. But welcome to the Irish education system. Load of bollocks.

sock puppet

Pace2008 wrote: »

****ing joke that someone studying 3 science subjects in school has to set valuable time aside to learn the subtleties that differentiate the Finíocht and the Ruríocht if they want to get into many of the better colleges.

Happily (or not!) demand for science subjects is low so these students needn't worry.

MultiUmm

jimthemental wrote: »

My french is now almost passable whereas my irish is absolutely dirt poor.

Probably because you learned French in a more practical way whereas learning poetry answers off by heart for Irish left you with little idea of how to hold a proper conversation. If the department never make it optional they should at least change the curriculum so that it's less full of complete horse shít.

stovelid

Irish should be taught after lunch on Fridays with conversational classes taught around a subsidised bar in the school.

Trog

To echo a previous sentiment, I wouldn't give up on everything else just because you want to do physics now. I wanted to do architecture, then I wanted Engineering, then I wanted psychology. I did philosophy nad english and dropped English. I love it. It's WAY better than the subjects I once thought I wanted.

Most of the lads I know who had one subject in mind in 6th year did that subject for a year or two then dropped out and did something else. I spoke to one lad recently who busted his a*se to get into medicine. He is now happy as an apprentice electrician. Some of them still kept their original ambitions, but trust me, nothing is definite.

F-Stop

Never mind your problems, why does the Irish tax system force me to pay money that I need for m?

Seloth

I jsut wish History was mandatory..the amount of people who dont know who Hitler..yes Hitler! was is quite disturbing.

stovelid

stovelid wrote: »

Irish should be taught after lunch on Fridays with conversational classes taught around a subsidised bar in the school.

Popularity of Irish goes up 2-300% and actually produces people that can speak it fluidly

Trog

Seloth wrote: »

I jsut wish History was mandatory..the amount of people who dont know who Hitler..yes Hitler! was is quite disturbing.

Irish people? Really? That's on the mandatory history course which finishes at Junior cert, no? It disturbs me that nobody knows anything about any of the politics involved, and all they know is Hitler=Bad, american A bomb=good. A bit of education about what really went on politically mightn't go amiss.

take everything

Scarydoll wrote: »

Whats m?

Letter after l, before n.
Bit like an upside down w.

darragh16

thisisadamh wrote: »

A friend and I have been talking recently and we think it is stupid that we have to learn subjects that we dont need for university. For example, 3 languages??? For a course in Physics? 3 languages for most courses. Personally I hate learning languages, I dont intend to touch languages after the leaving cert, so why do I have to learn them and why to colleges require them for courses that have nothing to do with them?

What is everyone else's view?

You have to remember that everything you learn in school, Every piece of vocabulary, every poem, every formula etc. all of it is ABSOLUTELY VITAL in the real world.

TeddyTedson

Everyone should have to learn a language like German anyway I think and be relatively fluent in it.

Trog

TeddyTedson wrote: »

Everyone should have to learn a language like German anyway I think and be relatively fluent in it.

Wasn't there some guy that tried to force everyone to speak German years ago? Can't remember who it was though...

Agricola

10/15 years from now, you'll be in some dreary job (if your lucky) and you'll wish that your biggest problem in life was having to broaden your mind by learning some languages.

iheartthailand

I learnt Irish for 14 years and French for 6 and Im out of school 4 years now and doubt I could string a sentence together. Did well in the them in the leaving cert but really didnt know how to actually speak either language. Im a science person myself and although I would love to speak a loada different languages I was crap at it and hated it. It was an absolute waste of my time.

People say you dont know what you'll want when you leave school, in that case should they stop someone from studying say, business, economics and accounting. Should they be forced to study a science subject?

m@cc@

Deleted User wrote: »

Popularity of Irish goes up 2-300% and actually produces people that can speak it fluidly

Taking the piss?

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Popularity of Irish goes up 2-300% and actually produces people that can speak it fluidly

m@cc@ wrote: »

Taking the piss?

It's well known that learning(practicing) a language in a social environment is very beneficial to the learning process.

Make it enjoyable and it's easier to learn!

fluidly = joke

plein de force

i do agree with you but i have the opposite thing. I'm good at languages, love them (except irish) and pick them up quickly but i've always hated science. i don't do science now of any form and i'm glad i don't, it was such a hindrance on my learning. If you have no interest in something, have no talent for it, after JC there's no point in it being drummed into you to the detriment of something you're good at. Cultivating your strenghts should be allowed.

iheartthailand

plein de force wrote: »

i do agree with you but i have the opposite thing. I'm good at languages, love them (except irish) and pick them up quickly but i've always hated science. i don't do science now of any form and i'm glad i don't, it was such a hindrance on my learning. If you have no interest in something, have no talent for it, after JC there's no point in it being drummed into you to the detriment of something you're good at. Cultivating your strenghts should be allowed.

Your lucky you could drop all the subjects you werent good at/disliked after the JC, I was forced to continue french and irish when I would have much prefered to replace them with some other subjects. In my school you didnt even have to do science for the JC, it was a choice subject.

bonerm

I've always wondered, how exactly does one become James Bond's boss?

MultiUmm

iheartthailand wrote: »

Your lucky you could drop all the subjects you werent good at/disliked after the JC, I was forced to continue french and irish when I would have much prefered to replace them with some other subjects. In my school you didnt even have to do science for the JC, it was a choice subject.

It's not always the case that if someone is granted an opt out from Irish or chooses not to do French (or German) that they can pick any other subject to do instead. People who don't do Irish for whatever reason spend the class doing homework and people who choose not to do a European language have to do geography, at least that's how it works in my school. I'd imagine other schools are more or less the same as the timetable wouldn't allow them to pick any subject freely, so in a way a person is still constricted to a subject they mightn't like. Still, it's good for people to have the option at least.

Logical Fallacy

thisisadamh wrote: »

A friend and I have been talking recently and we think it is stupid that we have to learn subjects that we dont need for university. For example, 3 languages??? For a course in Physics? 3 languages for most courses. Personally I hate learning languages, I dont intend to touch languages after the leaving cert, so why do I have to learn them and why to colleges require them for courses that have nothing to do with them?

What is everyone else's view?

Look, if you can't wrap your head around languages at a secondary school level you haven't a ****ing hope of getting college level physics.

TeddyTedson

Trog wrote: »

Wasn't there some guy that tried to force everyone to speak German years ago? Can't remember who it was though...

Yep. How quickly we forget!

MultiUmm

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Look, if you can't wrap your head around languages at a secondary school level you haven't a ****ing hope of getting college level physics.

Where in OP's post did he/she say that they were completely useless at languages? OP said they hate doing languages, not that they're bad at them. There is a difference, no need to berate the OP.