ATTENTION MEMBERS! Forum change of location

Dav

Hello all,

We've had some pretty in-depth discussion between the mods of this forum, the Food & Drink section in general and the Fitness section and we're looking to make some changes.

Fitness section of Boards is going to be renamed to Health and Fitness. There has been a focus on The Nutrition & Diet forum is going to be moved under the Health and Fitness umbrella as it is a more suitable location.

We've also had to come to the difficult decision of closing our Food Diaries forum. This forum was always a bit risky and has caused us quite a bit of trouble with arguements about the content of people's diets and the healthiness of it all. Posts weren't being reported and threads were descending into handbags at dawn and that's not what we wanted.

EileenG and rubadub will be staying on as Mods of Nutrition & Diet and they'll be helped out by the existing Fitness Mods: BossArky, g'em, Khannie, metamorphosis and the drifter.

I'll be making the move probably on Wednesday to give everyone time to spot that this change will be happening.

Thanks for your time folks.

spiderjazz

Hi Dav,

Would you or another mod be able to answer peoples questions re: food diaries on this thread please?

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=70128375#post70128375

Amtmann

Good call, though I think if the Fitness forum were renamed the Weightlifting or Gym forum it would better reflect the character of the place. I suppose other ways of getting fit (swimming, cycling, etc.) all have their own forums already.

Amtmann

Actually, I should have read your post more closely Dav. I think it's VERY regrettable that you are closing Food Diaries. I am a major lurker here and this is one of the best, most helpful forums on Boards.ie.

I can't see how it even comes close to Personal Issues as a minefield to mod, and absolutely no disrespect to the current mods here on that. Heck, I'd be happy to help out with the modding here if it was needed. I really think this decision should be reconsidered.

Having read g'em's detailed posts here, I reluctantly accept that the closure of the forum is probably for the best.

g'em

Hi folks, I've posted on that thread in the Food Diaries forum. As I said there this wasn't a decision that was taken lightly - we're very, very aware of what a big resource this is for people. Unfortunately this isn't just a case of moderating petty squabbles and the like, there's actually quite a serious Moderating connundrum underlying that in the nature of some of the advice given on various threads.

Amtmann

g'em wrote: »

Hi folks, I've posted on that thread in the Food Diaries forum. As I said there this wasn't a decision that was taken lightly - we're very, very aware of what a big resource this is for people. Unfortunately this isn't just a case of moderating petty squabbles and the like, there's actually quite a serious Moderating connundrum underlying that in the nature of some of the advice given on various threads.

Cheers g'em. I posted a response to your response on that thread.

stripysocks85

I think the decision to close the Food Diaries should also be rethought. Extra mods could surely just close certain threads/delete posts if necessary? I really think you'd lose a lot of people who use the food diaries posting on Boards.

Lady Lainy

can I just ask if the weight watchers thread will still be running?

g'em

Lainy all the threads in the main forum will still be there, it's only teh Food Diary subforum that will be deleted.

g'em

stripysocks85 wrote: »

I think the decision to close the Food Diaries should also be rethought. Extra mods could surely just close certain threads/delete posts if necessary? I really think you'd lose a lot of people who use the food diaries posting on Boards.

When the N&D forum is moved it will have four extra Mods, but this isn't the issue at hand. We're just not qualified to make the calls needed to Moderate the forum properly.

Catari Jaguar

Please don't delete the diaries. I wrote in mine daily for a year and I put so much effort in to it including recipes and photos recording progress. Lots of kind words and support as well. Lock if necessary but please don't be so cruel as to delete. These are not threads - they are DIARIES.

timeforachange

The Food Diaries forum has been one of the main reasons so many of us have got so far with our weightloss journey.
It is NOT just about logging what we eat, but the support we gain here is incredible and the friendships I have made here I truely value.

I appreciate that yes it may be a difficult forum to moderate but I for one think that this is actually an easy way out.

Surely, the first step is not complete deletion? Surely the first step is a written warning to everybody in the form of a sticky and moderation being brought up to a maximum.
Certain forums on boards.ie are barely moderated, while others are moderated greatly.
Why not increase modding in the forum and see how a trial of a month goes with this written warning too?

To just swoop in and delete this forum without giving anybody warning is COMPLETELY unfair and its leaving a very bitter tase in my mouth regarding boards in general.

Completely devastated over this.

carolinespring

stripysocks85 wrote: »

I think the decision to close the Food Diaries should also be rethought. Extra mods could surely just close certain threads/delete posts if necessary? I really think you'd lose a lot of people who use the food diaries posting on Boards.

I for one also feel the decision shoud be rethought. extra mods and delete any dodgy threads. I will be totally lost without mu food diary.

Caroline

Catari Jaguar

I can honestly say I don't even know of any food disorder diaries. I know of a couple that are only kidding themselves and won't listen to advice, but sure we're not supposed to be giving advice anyways (even if it's for their own good...) It's their diary and without it their diet would probably be even worse. What is the problem? I read G'em's reasons but honestly don't get it.

If it's about bad food advice why is there a WW thread in N & D - I don't think WW promotes nutrition at all (maybe now with pro points) But there isn't a fad diet promotion approach here. Most of the advice is taken from the stickies. If we can't have food diaries then the stickies shouldn't be there. Neither should the fitness stickies/ diaries in case they support exercise bullimia or bigorexia.

Users that break rules by having dodgy diaries need them closed. I know of ONE diary that was locked due to an eating disorder - she's better now. Probably because someone read her diary and she realised she needed help.

Seriously, this is such a ridiculous over the top solution to a barely existant problem. Punishing all of the responsible users over what if scenarios.

kaz_corcoran

Very disappointed in the closure of the food diary thread. I only started mine up under two weeks ago and I've found it fantastic for keeping me on track. The support has also been great, no negative comments at all.

I understand there have been issues with moderation/arguements etc., but surely we're all adults, and it is the internet after all. I don't think any forum can be expected to be completely harmonious but I don't think there's a need to shut it down completely.

foundry

Disgusted at the thought of closing the food diaries. It has helped so many people. Please reconsider.

Jwacqui

I understand the reason behind this but think it is totally unnecessary to delete peoples threads, the record of their hard work, progress and success. A lot of us food diary users have become friends in real life and the support and encouragement we give each other is fantastic.

I think it is very inconsiderate to have not informed us users of this. A notice or post should have been made in the food diary section about this to pre warn people. I have had my food diary for nearly two years and the thought of all that gone genuinely brings me to tears. It is very upsetting.

I agree with the sentiments of Cherub and a few others here. :mad:

not the diaries!!!

Pembily

Please don't delete the diaries! Just lock... I asked Faith to lock and delete my previous diary as it had a lot of emotional stuff in it and she said boards doesnt generally delete long standing threads! I have since looked back on this diary and gained stuff from it!

PLEASE DON'T DELETE OUT DIARIES!?

Bottle_of_Smoke

Can understand the position mods are in but can't help but think we're throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Would it be possible that food diaries could be left but only the thread starter and mods can post on them?

Sure they wouldn't be as active and mods aren't dietitians but they would be easy to control that way.

Faith

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Would it be possible that food diaries could be left but only the thread starter and mods can post on them?

Sure they wouldn't be as active and mods aren't dietitians but they would be easy to control that way.

You're missing the point. What if the thread starter logs that they eat less than 1,00 calories every day? That screams anorexia, but we're not qualified to make that call.

Catari Jaguar

Who eats less than 1000 cals a day?! I read the diaries and they are mostly on WW and are following a program suited to them.

There are threads in N & D about the benefits of fasting, getting into ketosis, raw diets etc but then if the advice sought gets posted in food diary form "oh you're obviously anorexic blah blah close ALL the diaries" /mod.

Get real.

Kimia

I don't use the food diary forum (I tried once long ago and I couldn't keep with it! ) but I really really disagree with closing them. They are filled with encouragement, praise, also some stern words for those who are taking the mick, and recipes and I think that they are a huge resource for newbies and a huge help to users. Are you also going to be closing the Fitness logs?

Faith

cherub rock wrote: »

Who eats less than 1000 cals a day?! I read the diaries and they are mostly on WW and are following a program suited to them.

There are threads in N & D about the benefits of fasting, getting into ketosis, raw diets etc but then if the advice sought gets posted in food diary form "oh you're obviously anorexic blah blah close ALL the diaries" /mod.

Get real.

It's reactions like this that make moderating here so hard. I can think of several diaries off the top of my head where the authors were eating well less than 1,000 calories a day. I have the reported posts to support that I'm not only person who spotted it. Just because you don't know about it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Discussions on issues are not the same as acting on them. People discuss abortion all the time, but it doesn't mean everyone who reads the thread runs off to get one. Same as talking about the benefits of fasting means everyone does it. But if someone admits in their food diary that they haven't eaten for several days as part of as fast, that's a problem.

Sapsorrow

What a pity

Although you have to wonder why so many other discussion forums manage to keep these sort of food and fitness logs going and boards.ie can't!?

The Hill Billy

Sapsorrow wrote: »

Although you have to wonder why so many other discussion forums manage to keep these sort of food and fitness logs going and boards.ie can't!?

I'll tell you why...

Firstly, believe me when I say that I understand the big investment that a lot of posters have made in their diaries. However, in its current state some diaries were set up by other posters that described food intake that was borderline dangerous primarily to themselves & secondly to others if they adopted similar 'diets'. But, as mods (who are responsible for the governance of the forum on behalf of boards.ie), there was very little that I & my fellow mods could do about this.

As an example - Let's say that Poster A starts a diary & posts details of his calorie intake, etc. Common sense tells me that his intake is seriously bad for his health. What do I do? It is his life, his body. All I have to back me up is common sense. Not really justification for me closing his thread.

On the other hand I wish to protect other posters from thinking that Poster A's diet is OK. Again, does common sense give me justification for posting a warning? Will other posters even read the warning?

More than a few posters in Food Diaries had issues with diet that I & my fellow mods were not qualified to moderate safely. Those posters needed the advice of health professionals - not others who supported them in pursuing sometimes unhealthy eating habits.

While I think that it was great for the balanced posters who used the forum in the way that it was originally intended - there were too many threads that went against the spirit of the forum & offered bad advice. This was compounded by the fact that few of what I would consider 'problem posts' were actually reported by regular posters who really should have known better than let the threads carry on.

So in answer to your original question - all in all, maybe the forum is being closed because boards.ie actually cares about its posters & their well-being.

Take care,

HB

Sapsorrow

I appreciate that the mods and admin give a damn about their users but it's still a bit of a catch 22 situation. Sure the diaries may encourage some people (the minority imo) to adopt or continue unhealthy eating habits and so damage their health but overall I feel the diaries help a lot more than they harm. Especially when you consider the long term impact on ones health that weight loss has. Being obese is often just as dangerous to ones health as being underweight, it just takes longer to manifest in tangible health effects. I haven't been lurking that much lately but when I kept a diary there was only one person in particular who clearly suffered from disordered eating (and even admitted so) and the feedback from the users obviously encouraged them to confront and deal with their problem in the end. I appreciate it's a risky forum for boards to host but so many people have managed to turn their lives (and health) around so dramatically through using the diaries. I really doubt most would have had such success had they gone it alone and not had the encouragement of the forum and so I really just think it's very sad when there is the potential for so many more success stories to begin here.

Dolbert

Sapsorrow wrote: »

I appreciate that the mods and admin give a damn about their users but it's still a bit of a catch 22 situation. Sure the diaries may encourage some people (the minority imo) to adopt or continue unhealthy eating habits and so damage their health but overall I feel the diaries help a lot more than they harm. Especially when you consider the long term impact on ones health that weight loss has. Being obese is often just as dangerous to ones health as being underweight, it just takes longer to manifest in tangible health effects. I haven't been lurking that much lately but when I kept a diary there was only one person in particular who clearly suffered from disordered eating (and even admitted so) and the feedback from the users obviously encouraged them to confront and deal with their problem in the end. I appreciate it's a risky forum for boards to host but so many people have managed to turn their lives (and health) around so dramatically through using the diaries. I really doubt most would have had such success had they gone it alone and not had the encouragement of the forum and so I really just think it's very sad when there is the potential for so many more success stories to begin here.

In a situation like this SS, the needs of the vulnerable few do, and must always outweigh the wants of the majority. If we can avoid just one person from going through eating disorder hell by shutting down the diaries, then surely the inconvenience of others is worth it. There is no question in my mind that it is.

timeforachange

Sapsorrow wrote: »

I appreciate that the mods and admin give a damn about their users but it's still a bit of a catch 22 situation. Sure the diaries may encourage some people (the minority imo) to adopt or continue unhealthy eating habits and so damage their health but overall I feel the diaries help a lot more than they harm. Especially when you consider the long term impact on ones health that weight loss has. Being obese is often just as dangerous to ones health as being underweight, it just takes longer to manifest in tangible health effects. I haven't been lurking that much lately but when I kept a diary there was only one person in particular who clearly suffered from disordered eating (and even admitted so) and the feedback from the users obviously encouraged them to confront and deal with their problem in the end. I appreciate it's a risky forum for boards to host but so many people have managed to turn their lives (and health) around so dramatically through using the diaries. I really doubt most would have had such success had they gone it alone and not had the encouragement of the forum and so I really just think it's very sad when there is the potential for so many more success stories to begin here.

I know the forum is closing either way at this stage and I actually don't mind anymore because we have set up a substitute but Im still a bit annoyed with boards out of principle at this stage.

I agree with this point. People are talking about the affect an ED has on a person. But being overweight can equally be harmful and dangerous to one's health. So many of us here have admitted that without our diaries we wouldn't have been able to loose weight.
By closing the diaries your harming many people who are in the same situation, many people who are perhaps only starting our or about to start out. People who may have set up their diary and got to goal because of the support here but now may never get to that point.

The Hill Billy

timeforachange wrote: »

By closing the diaries your [I presume you mean the mods & admins on boards.ie?] harming many people who are in the same situation, many people who are perhaps only starting our or about to start out. People who may have set up their diary and got to goal because of the support here but now may never get to that point.

You are suggesting that I (as a forum mod) am harming people by supporting the closure of the forum.

You are also suggesting that some posters may never reach their 'goal' because of this forum closure (which I support).

I do not accept this. The individual themself is responsible for their own success or failure - not me, not any other mod or admin & not boards.ie.

I am not prepared to be responsible for other people's well-being. I will not take responsibility for their success or failure in achieving their dieting goals.

However, I have a responsibility to boards.ie & its posters in the forums that I mod. (Maybe I take this too seriously?) In the area of dieting & - in instances where it has arisen in this forum - problem eating, there are none of us on boards qualified to make the correct moderation decisions on these matters. That is for them &/or a health professional to work out.

Dav

Just wanted to note - I've made this post which is relevant to this thread too.

Lady Lainy

Can you merge the two weight watchers thread. Its the same conversation going on in both...wouldn't it be easier to just have one thread...ppl are double posting cos they don't know which thread is in use. any new boards ppl are using the newer thread...when really if they went to the original thread they'd probably get a better experience.

the spin off thread was intended for menus and recipes, but its turned into a duplicate of the original weight watchers thread.

(thought i'd suggest it as ye are cleaning up the Diet and Nutrition board)

Inspector Coptoor

I never posted in the old N&D forum.

I only saw it today when it had been merged with fitness.

After reading this thread there's one point I'd like to address, and it's about some posters claiming they wouldn't have been able to lose weight or reach their goals had it not been for their diaries.

My point is this: why not? Could you just not copy and paste the diary to a word doc and continue your diary there? Is it the diary aspect you'd really be missing or is it the help, support and encouragement you were receiving from other users? Would fitday.com be a suitable substitute?

I ask the question out of genuine interest. I keep a training log in fitness logs myself and
and very often record kcals consumed aswel as the ratio of P:F:C.

Pembily

Liam Henners257 wrote: »

I never posted in the old N&D forum.

I only saw it today when it had been merged with fitness.

After reading this thread there's one point I'd like to address, and it's about some posters claiming they wouldn't have been able to lose weight or reach their goals had it not been for their diaries.

My point is this: why not? Could you just not copy and paste the diary to a word doc and continue your diary there? Is it the diary aspect you'd really be missing or is it the help, support and encouragement you were receiving from other users? Would fitday.com be a suitable substitute?

I ask the question out of genuine interest. I keep a training log in fitness logs myself and
and very often record kcals consumed aswel as the ratio of P:F:C.

Its the support, its why weightwatchers works (it did for me argue all you want IME AND IMO it does) as there is support, food diaries provided huge support from unbiased people (I mean that the don't know your story as such) and this exponentially helps with weight loss! It's not support saying don't eat that one biscuit it's more when you don't see the point anymore that some points out how far you have come or that they reached goal from where you were and you can do it!

You have support for everything in life, weightloss support is just as necessary!