The Party The Party The Party - It's all about the Party!

dixiefly

I just saw a clip from Cowen's interview on The Week In Politics and his focus seems to be just the effects of all of this on Fianna Fail!

Martin to a lesser extent mentioned that Fianna Fail were in danger of being destroyed without a change on leadership/

What I am wondering is whether a Taoiseach's 1st priority is to his party or the country? it has to be the country but a leader must also be cogniscant regarding the effects of their actions on their own party / their own popularity.

But he is being paid by the taxpayers to be Taoisaeach - not to be leader of the party.

Min

But we all partied...

ninty9er

The Statement

Today I am announcing the outcome of the consultation with my Fianna Fáil Parliamentary Party colleagues, whose job it is to decide on the Leadership of this party.

I want to thank each and every one of them for their consideration and commitment to this comprehensive process that I have undertaken.

All discussions with all members have been cordial, mutually respectful and productive. I am again heartened by the strong commitment of all my colleagues and am proud to serve alongside them.

The most important issue that I have had to consider is what is in the best interest of the country at this time?

We are all aware of the immense challenges that this administration has faced in charting a way through some of the most difficult economic times since the foundation of the State.

This party is founded on service to the country and has displayed its capacity along with the Green Party and working with independents to provide a working majority to implement difficult but necessary decisions to help chart our country through an international economic and financial crisis, the likes of which has not been seen in over 80 years.

This Government, under my leadership, has followed a consistent path to help stabilise our economy in the aftermath of the biggest downturn in modern Irish economic history. Our budgetary strategy has helped to stabilise our economy, and return it to economic growth.

This Government has obtained approval for its National Recovery Plan and provided for the proper funding of the State through the negotiation of an EU/IMF financial package. This will give us the time and space to continue on a path of adjustment that will restore economic growth and thereby create jobs. It will also allow us to continue bringing our public finances back to order while providing necessary public services for our people.

That achievement, in the most difficult of circumstances, has been the result of the strong, cohesive, coherent and effective actions of the Government that I am privileged to lead, despite relentless opposition from other political parties, who have benefited from the fact that they don’t hold the responsibility of government.

As Taoiseach, my total focus must remain on discharging my duties to the people so that we give legislative effect to the Budget through the enactment of the Finance Bill, and other related bills which benefit the people.

There is nothing more important than doing precisely that. When that work is done and an election is called, I look forward to the opportunity to engaging in what must be a balanced and national political debate about the real choices that face our country given the situation we will continue to face in the years ahead.

I look forward to that political challenge as an exercise of democratic political accountability by this Government to the people it serves. I am keenly aware that in putting the country first, and given the magnitude of decisions we have taken, necessary as they are, that this has impacted on the support levels of our party.

I am emphasising again that this party, as with other parties, was founded as a vehicle to vindicate the aspirations of the Irish people and to ensure progress on their behalf.

For Fianna Fail, the party is important but the interests of the country are paramount.

In 2008, it was my great privilege to be elected leader of Fianna Fáil, the Republican Party. I have spent my entire adult life as a member of the Party and I am proud to have served Fianna Fáil at every level. I have an abiding commitment to and respect for the party, its history and traditions.

I have a deep affection for the Fianna Fáil organisation and the men and women who give selflessly of their time in promoting our party and its efforts to build a better Ireland. I know that the membership of Fianna Fáil the length and breadth of Ireland are concerned about the party’s prospects at the next election.

It is not surprising that those concerns are reflected in our Parliamentarty Party proceedings. That is as it should be. Just as our work in Government has been about bringing clarity and direction to the economic and social life of our country, so also must there be clarity about the role and responsibilities of those who hold political office.

The suggestion being made regarding a change of leadership in Fianna Fáíl while I continue as Taoiseach in order to complete the tasks I have already referred to, is not one with which I concur. I do not believe it to be in the country’s interests nor do I believe it to be in the settled collective view of my colleagues in the parliamentary party.

Having one line of authority as a Taoiseach, and a separate line of authority in political decision making as a leader of Fianna Fail is not in my view, a good idea. It could lead to confusion and dilution of authority for the persons concerned.

Given the electoral challenges we face, I believe it to be in the best traditions of Fianna Fáil to work collectively together defending and explaining the decisions we have made under the collective authority of Government. It behoves us all to display unity of purpose and to advocate our shared values by proposing policies that promote the common good as we seek support from the people at the next election.

I respect and admire the strong conviction and sincerely held opinions in our party. May it ever be so. We are all motivated by the same goals.

Having consulted with my party colleagues, and having reflected on the current and future challenges, I have come to the conclusion that it I should continue to lead the party. I believe this is in the best interest of stability of the government, the country and our party.

Those who know me, know that I am not motivated by personal ambition. My decision is my deeply held belief having considered all issues and concerns brought to my attention in recent days.

I believe that any issue regarding my leadership of Fianna Fail should be resolved immediately. I have therefore decided to place a motion of confidence in my leadership before next Tuesday’s parliamentary party meeting. The vote will be by secret ballot.

By taking this initiative, I believe I am acting in the best interest of the party and its membership, and I am confident of the outcome.

Once we have dispensed with this issue, we will unite behind whatever decision is taken and focus our attention on the work in hand at both party and government level.

Just in case it wasn't clear enough, but don't let the facts get in the way of a good rant.

ArtSmart

par - tay dude, par - tay.

gandalf

Party is mentioned 21 times in that statement. It is very clear where his priorities lie.

Today I am announcing the outcome of the consultation with my Fianna Fáil Parliamentary party colleagues, whose job it is to decide on the Leadership of this party.

I want to thank each and every one of them for their consideration and commitment to this comprehensive process that I have undertaken.

All discussions with all members have been cordial, mutually respectful and productive. I am again heartened by the strong commitment of all my colleagues and am proud to serve alongside them.

The most important issue that I have had to consider is what is in the best interest of the country at this time?

We are all aware of the immense challenges that this administration has faced in charting a way through some of the most difficult economic times since the foundation of the State.

This party is founded on service to the country and has displayed its capacity along with the Green party and working with independents to provide a working majority to implement difficult but necessary decisions to help chart our country through an international economic and financial crisis, the likes of which has not been seen in over 80 years.

This Government, under my leadership, has followed a consistent path to help stabilise our economy in the aftermath of the biggest downturn in modern Irish economic history. Our budgetary strategy has helped to stabilise our economy, and return it to economic growth.

This Government has obtained approval for its National Recovery Plan and provided for the proper funding of the State through the negotiation of an EU/IMF financial package. This will give us the time and space to continue on a path of adjustment that will restore economic growth and thereby create jobs. It will also allow us to continue bringing our public finances back to order while providing necessary public services for our people.

That achievement, in the most difficult of circumstances, has been the result of the strong, cohesive, coherent and effective actions of the Government that I am privileged to lead, despite relentless opposition from other political parties, who have benefited from the fact that they don’t hold the responsibility of government.

As Taoiseach, my total focus must remain on discharging my duties to the people so that we give legislative effect to the Budget through the enactment of the Finance Bill, and other related bills which benefit the people.

There is nothing more important than doing precisely that. When that work is done and an election is called, I look forward to the opportunity to engaging in what must be a balanced and national political debate about the real choices that face our country given the situation we will continue to face in the years ahead.

I look forward to that political challenge as an exercise of democratic political accountability by this Government to the people it serves. I am keenly aware that in putting the country first, and given the magnitude of decisions we have taken, necessary as they are, that this has impacted on the support levels of our party.

I am emphasising again that this party, as with other parties, was founded as a vehicle to vindicate the aspirations of the Irish people and to ensure progress on their behalf.

For Fianna Fail, the party is important but the interests of the country are paramount.

In 2008, it was my great privilege to be elected leader of Fianna Fáil, the Republican party. I have spent my entire adult life as a member of the party and I am proud to have served Fianna Fáil at every level. I have an abiding commitment to and respect for the party, its history and traditions.

I have a deep affection for the Fianna Fáil organisation and the men and women who give selflessly of their time in promoting our party and its efforts to build a better Ireland. I know that the membership of Fianna Fáil the length and breadth of Ireland are concerned about the party’s prospects at the next election.

It is not surprising that those concerns are reflected in our Parliamentarty party proceedings. That is as it should be. Just as our work in Government has been about bringing clarity and direction to the economic and social life of our country, so also must there be clarity about the role and responsibilities of those who hold political office.

The suggestion being made regarding a change of leadership in Fianna Fáíl while I continue as Taoiseach in order to complete the tasks I have already referred to, is not one with which I concur. I do not believe it to be in the country’s interests nor do I believe it to be in the settled collective view of my colleagues in the parliamentary party.

Having one line of authority as a Taoiseach, and a separate line of authority in political decision making as a leader of Fianna Fail is not in my view, a good idea. It could lead to confusion and dilution of authority for the persons concerned.

Given the electoral challenges we face, I believe it to be in the best traditions of Fianna Fáil to work collectively together defending and explaining the decisions we have made under the collective authority of Government. It behoves us all to display unity of purpose and to advocate our shared values by proposing policies that promote the common good as we seek support from the people at the next election.

I respect and admire the strong conviction and sincerely held opinions in our party. May it ever be so. We are all motivated by the same goals.

Having consulted with my party colleagues, and having reflected on the current and future challenges, I have come to the conclusion that it I should continue to lead the party. I believe this is in the best interest of stability of the government, the country and our party.

Those who know me, know that I am not motivated by personal ambition. My decision is my deeply held belief having considered all issues and concerns brought to my attention in recent days.

I believe that any issue regarding my leadership of Fianna Fail should be resolved immediately. I have therefore decided to place a motion of confidence in my leadership before next Tuesday’s parliamentary party meeting. The vote will be by secret ballot.

By taking this initiative, I believe I am acting in the best interest of the party and its membership, and I am confident of the outcome.

Once we have dispensed with this issue, we will unite behind whatever decision is taken and focus our attention on the work in hand at both party and government level.

johnnyskeleton

ninty9er wrote: »

The Statement



Just in case it wasn't clear enough, but don't let the facts get in the way of a good rant.

He really laboured the "good of the country first" line. I suspect that some FF researcher picked up on the internet chatter about the good of the party (this isn't the first thread on it) and passed it on to the script writers.

transylman

ninty9er wrote: »

The Statement



Just in case it wasn't clear enough, but don't let the facts get in the way of a good rant.

And don't let the facts get in the way of your blind defence of your party.

Liam Byrne

I am keenly aware that in putting the country first, and given the magnitude of decisions we have taken, necessary as they are, that this has impacted on the support levels of our party.

Proof that he still doesn't get it.

Has he ever spoken to anyone who could tell him the truth?

The reason, Cowen, that you and your sickening party are unpopular is because you led us into this mess, plus the fact that every action taken has made it worse!!! Not because "they were necessary" but because they were wrong and unfair and benefitted those who did actually party and screwed the rest of us!

Add in the corruption and taking the piss and you have
It's hilarious - people suggest that FF can get us out of this when in actual fact FF can't even understand why they're unpopular!

It's simple, Cowen - just friggin' ask people!

BlaasForRafa

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

He really laboured the "good of the country first" line. I suspect that some FF researcher picked up on the internet chatter about the good of the party (this isn't the first thread on it) and passed it on to the script writers.

Exactly, Cowen and FF are trying to wrap the green flag around themselves and claim everything they've done is for the sake of the country. At this stage though I think the only people that don't see through that bluster are the FF diehards.

I hope that FF keep that buffoon Cowen in charge because otherwise there may be some mitigation to the electoral armageddon that FF face.

Liam Byrne

Min wrote: »

But we all partied...

No, we didn't, and I'm getting sick of this lie being allowed on boards.

BlaasForRafa

Liam Byrne wrote: »

No, we didn't, and I'm getting sick of this lie being allowed on boards.

I too am sick of that particular assertion but I get the feeling in this case that Min was making a sarcastic aside at those who have made that particular assertion in the past.

At least thats what I hope Min was doing! If not then yikes...

Liam Byrne

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

I too am sick of that particular assertion but I get the feeling in this case that Min was making a sarcastic aside at those who have made that particular assertion in the past.

At least thats what I hope Min was doing! If not then yikes...

That crossed my mind, so we'll let Min clarify what they meant.

Fitzerb

gandalf wrote: »

Party is mentioned 21 times in that statement. It is very clear where his priorities lie.

That should not shock us. The issue he is discussing the leadership of the party.

Fitzerb

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Proof that he still doesn't get it.

Has he ever spoken to anyone who could tell him the truth?

The reason, Cowen, that you and your sickening party are unpopular is because you led us into this mess, plus the fact that every action taken has made it worse!!! Not because "they were necessary" but because they were wrong and unfair and benefitted those who did actually party and screwed the rest of us!

Add in the corruption and taking the piss and you have
It's hilarious - people suggest that FF can get us out of this when in actual fact FF can't even understand why they're unpopular!

It's simple, Cowen - just friggin' ask people!

I am sure he will when the election is called in March

Fitzerb

Liam Byrne wrote: »

That crossed my mind, so we'll let Min clarify what they meant.

I enjoyed the party.

I got tax reductions.

I got SSIA's (got great holidays on that)

I got increase every year in my income.

I paid less than most coutries did for 3rd level education.

I enjoyed the party, but the party is over now.
However I dont suffer with bad hangovers

Inverse to the power of one!

No more then Kim Jong Ill views the continuity of his dynasty for the good of N.K, FF view the continuity of the party as being all for the good of Ireland.

Convenient parallels in both cases, and far from uncommon in all of history.

All humans warp logic to impose justification for their behavior, At least sociopaths are honest in this regard.....but they just don't do too well in politics

newmug

The party's over. Now get the fcuk out of our house:mad:

Liam Byrne

Fitzerb wrote: »

I am sure he will when the election is called in March

He made those claims on TV today, which means that he was on TV today not having a clue what he was talking about.

What good is researching in March for a TV spot in January?

Shea O'Meara

The FFail separatist movement actually believe that they and the country are one.
The 14-20% of core voters are actually in a world were they are the people of Ireland. The other 80% don't count or matter.
It's insane really.
I hope Cowen remains leader, it will ensure decimation, apart from support from die-hard fools or vested interests, (higher up party members pals).
Those rat snakes who left or are planning to, will snake in somewhere until FFail's light begins to shine again.
Delusional arseholes or just plain arseholes the whole bunch.

cancercowboy

With Fianna Fáil it has always been party first, country second. As disgusting as it is, this is a fact. They've always felt they've known, not the people, what was best for the country.

Personally, I am fine with Cowen refusing to leave the office of Taoiseach. It means that Fianna Fáil will lose more support in the polls and may mean a total wipe out, and I think that is what is really in the best interests of the country: no more Fianna Fáil.

walrusgumble

cancercowboy wrote: »

With Fianna Fáil it has always been party first, country second. As disgusting as it is, this is a fact. They've always felt they've known, not the people, what was best for the country.

Personally, I am fine with Cowen refusing to leave the office of Taoiseach. It means that Fianna Fáil will lose more support in the polls and may mean a total wipe out, and I think that is what is really in the best interests of the country: no more Fianna Fáil.

You can be rest assurred, that in Irish Politics, Fianna Fáil are not the only political group who share the mantra "in the interest of the party". Maybe one of few exceptions to this would have been Gareth Fitzgerald, but then again, he never felt that he was a bone fide die in the wool Fine Gaeler. Dermot Morgan use to do a good skit of Michael Noonan in or around 1994, along the lines of "you can forget about what Fine Gael can do for the country, but what you can do for Fine Gael". Dick SPring was the same with Labour.


But yes, Fianna Fáil its glaring, you all have access to the archives, look at Gerry Collins plea on national television, begging Albert Reynolds to cease from running against Charlie, check out the footage of Collins outside the Dáil afterwards when all was well again, fing disgraceful, like a child would had screamed and shout to get ice cream then all delighted afterwards. Look at the RTÉ documentaries on Charles Haughey and see the contributions made by PJ Mara and that gomb, Padraig Flynn. I am all for honesty from politicans, but its hard to believe your ears when they come out with the stuff they said or in the manner that they said it, as if politics is like a game of snakes and ladders instead of dealing with people's lives


The problem is the tribal culture

hallelujajordan

gandalf wrote: »

Party is mentioned 21 times in that statement. It is very clear where his priorities lie.

A very very lazy post Gandalf . . You've just searched for and highlighted a word without even considering the context and yet you derive an assumption as to Cowens priorities ??

If you look closely you will see that in some cases, the party referred to is not even the Fianna Fail party . . in some cases he uses the word in reference to party colleagues or a party meeting and in one case he actually uses the word in a context which supports ninenty9r's assertion . .

Brian Cowen wrote:

For Fianna Fail, the party is important but the interests of the country are paramount.

xflyer

As several have already stated. I too am hoping Cowen stays leader. It will ensure FF is wiped out. They need to start again. With Martin or someone else in charge going into the election. They will recover some votes and continue to delude themselves that it wasn't all their fault.

And yes, it was always about the party when it comes to FF. They are corrupt to the very core. The worst thing about them is that they can't even see it.

gandalf

hallelujajordan wrote: »

A very very lazy post Gandalf . . You've just searched for and highlighted a word without even considering the context and yet you derive an assumption as to Cowens priorities ??

If you look closely you will see that in some cases, the party referred to is not even the Fianna Fail party . . in some cases he uses the word in reference to party colleagues or a party meeting and in one case he actually uses the word in a context which supports ninenty9r's assertion . .

So you deny that the party is the priority for Cowen and Martin at the moment then?

My post is not lazy at all if anything its cynical.

hallelujajordan

gandalf wrote: »

So you deny that the party is the priority for Cowen and Martin at the moment then?

My post is not lazy at all if anything its cynical.

Yes, I absolutely refute that. . If Cowen was putting either himself or the party first he would have stood down as party leader some time ago . . .

Your post is a lazy attempt to imply that Cowens statement was all about the party when in fact ninety9r's analysis was far more accurate.

gandalf

And this is the same Cowen that said we wouldn't be getting a bailout from the ECB/IMF two days before we did seek a bailout from the ECB/IMF.

Again my post is not lazy it is coloured by a man who has LIED in the past. Hardly the kind of person I would recommend to manage a corner shop let alone the country.

You are right about one thing he should have stood down ages ago as party leader and Taoiseach, he is not fit for purpose.

It is obvious to all people who are not wearing "rose tinted FF supporter spectacles" that it is all about the party and its re-election prospects and nothing to do with the country. We can all see what FF and their Green hangers on think about the country given the mess they have made of the economy and the misery that has heaped upon a large number of its citizens.

LostinKildare

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

He really laboured the "good of the country first" line. I suspect that some FF researcher picked up on the internet chatter about the good of the party (this isn't the first thread on it) and passed it on to the script writers.

+1. Very obvious damage limitation. And not only from internet chatter -- some scathing letters to the ed in the press too. This one's still up on the Indo site:

Speaking on RTE's 'Prime Time' last Thursday, Batt O'Keeffe said Brian Cowen would always put the party before himself and his first concern was the party. Is this proof that he puts the country in third place?

Then there's the leadership challenge to strip him of party leadership but leave him as taoiseach. He isn't good enough for the party, but he'll do for the country, eh?

Min

Liam Byrne wrote: »

No, we didn't, and I'm getting sick of this lie being allowed on boards.

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

I too am sick of that particular assertion but I get the feeling in this case that Min was making a sarcastic aside at those who have made that particular assertion in the past.

At least thats what I hope Min was doing! If not then yikes...

Liam Byrne wrote: »

That crossed my mind, so we'll let Min clarify what they meant.

It was not a serious contribution, I hate it and is an excuse of the deluded people who got us into the mess and who like to think we were all as stupid as they were.

jmayo

Ah come on folks we all know where his priorities lie.
His first priority is himself and then the party.
Sadly the country comes down the list, otherwise he would have gone long ago.

The ff priority is ff.
Everything is done to continue ff, to make it more electable, to make sure it's supporters are looked after so they will continue to be good donators to the cause.
The members are looked after, so that they continue to be soldiers of destiny.

Jeeze just look how many ff members and hangers on have been allowed sup at the trough over the last few weeks.
Every board on every quangoe has had it's quota of ff leaches added.

Everytime I hear or see a ffer issue some excuse or some support, I wonder what they get from the trough, what kickback they or their family receive.

Yes some of their so called grassroots are made up of eejits who support them out of some weird loyalty like their forebearers before them.
But for every one of them you have a couple of the cute hoors who support them in order to ensure they get their snouts in some trough or other.
These may not get anywhere at this election, but they will be back come another election, after which their snouts will be back in the trough.

If these people had any decency they would have left long ago, but no they excuse the excesses, the wastage, the corruption, the unethical behaviour, the frauds and as long as there is somehting in for them they will continue to do so.

darragh16

Sorry to get off the whole FF bashing, but doesn't the main opposition party also have the same idea of Party first?

Rosahane

jmayo wrote: »

Ah come on folks we all know where his priorities lie.
His first priority is himself and then the party.
Sadly the country comes down the list, otherwise he would have gone long ago.

The ff priority is ff.
Everything is done to continue ff, to make it more electable, to make sure it's supporters are looked after so they will continue to be good donators to the cause.
The members are looked after, so that they continue to be soldiers of destiny.

Jeeze just look how many ff members and hangers on have been allowed sup at the trough over the last few weeks.
Every board on every quangoe has had it's quota of ff leaches added.

Everytime I hear or see a ffer issue some excuse or some support, I wonder what they get from the trough, what kickback they or their family receive.

Yes some of their so called grassroots are made up of eejits who support them out of some weird loyalty like their forebearers before them.
But for every one of them you have a couple of the cute hoors who support them in order to ensure they get their snouts in some trough or other.
These may not get anywhere at this election, but they will be back come another election, after which their snouts will be back in the trough.

If these people had any decency they would have left long ago, but no they excuse the excesses, the wastage, the corruption, the unethical behaviour, the frauds and as long as there is somehting in for them they will continue to do so.

+ 1 on the above, you beat me to it:D

The majority of people in FF are there for their own advancement, be it in the public service or private enterprise. This has always been the driving force behind their policies and practices - look after their own:mad:

My father, who sadly passed away 19 years ago always said that FF were a bunch of crooks and thieves. It's a shame he isn't around now, he would really enjoy watching them implode:D

Min

darragh16 wrote: »

Sorry to get off the whole FF bashing, but doesn't the main opposition party also have the same idea of Party first?

Worse was the party Eamon Gilmore was in back in the 1980's, the party he served then was in the Soviet Union.
He even ran under a 'workers unite' slogan...

Liam Byrne

Min wrote: »

Worse was the party Eamon Gilmore was in back in the 1980's, the party he served then was in the Soviet Union.
He even ran under a 'workers unite' slogan...

How was an Irish citizen serving/in a party in the Soviet Union ?

Jeboa Safari

This whole leadership challenge is all about party before country, hoping to pick up a few more FF votes during the next election, nevermind the instability it creates. The time for a heave has long past, and they should wait until after the election. Headlines across the world again about the potential collapse of government hardly do the countries already bad reputation any good,

Min

Liam Byrne wrote: »

How was an Irish citizen serving/in a party in the Soviet Union ?

The Irish workers party supported the USSR and wanted us to become just another slave of that evil failed regime.

As Kevin Myers puts it...

The Irish Workers Party indeed, now incorporated into the Labour Party, can truly count themselves lucky at the poor memory of the media classes, aided no doubt, by the influence of well-placed party-sympathisers. The Czech people had been crushed by the tanks of Soviet imperialism in 1968. Twenty years on, Czechoslovakia had fewer graduates than Nepal and had a growth rate below that of Peru. Before the Nazis had rolled over its democracy in 1938, Czechoslovakia was the third richest country in the world. By 1988, it was the 50th, and almost worse still, it had to endure these fraternal delegations from despised foreign pro-Soviet parties, most especially the Irish Workers Party, telling them how lucky they were.
Through the 1980s, Proinsias de Rossa was a consistent supporter of the Soviet Union: a search in the online archive of the 'Irish Times' (type in "de Rossa" and "Soviet") will show you what I mean. Moreover, the 'Irish Times' political correspondent, Dick Walsh, a very public sympathiser of the Workers Party, wrote approvingly in May 1983: "Indeed, if the Workers Party can be said to have taken over the role of any other organisation it is that of the Communist Party of Ireland. Where the Communist Party has failed to develop a constituency, the Workers Party has succeeded, and has won recognition from the Soviet Union for doing so."

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/kevin-myers-stalinists-thought-they-had-got-away-with-the-big-lie-1940171.html

Liam Byrne

Min wrote: »

The Irish workers party supported the USSR and wanted us to become just another slave of that evil failed regime.

As Kevin Myers puts it...



http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/kevin-myers-stalinists-thought-they-had-got-away-with-the-big-lie-1940171.html

That doesn't involve being a member or serving that party.

Plus I'd nearly prefer to be part of that "failed regime" than the current failed capitalist regime where we all pay the bills run up by the corrupt and greedy.

Min

Liam Byrne wrote: »

That doesn't involve being a member or serving that party.

Plus I'd nearly prefer to be part of that "failed regime" than the current failed capitalist regime where we all pay the bills run up by the corrupt and greedy.

We all know the Workers party would have been the puppets of the Soviet Union if they had gotten power.
http://www.bukovsky-archives.net/pdfs/com-com/Derossa.html

http://bukovsky-archives.net/pdfs/com-com/num08.pdf
A letter from the workers party to the USSR looking for money, a letter which caused a libel case, the Russians backed up de Rossa saying they had archived a letter which had a faked signature, the key thing is Sean Garland of the workers party had sent the letter looking for some communist money.

That failed regime led to tens of millions of people dying, you would prefer to be part of that?

Liam Byrne

Min wrote: »

We all know the Workers party would have been the puppets of the Soviet Union if they had gotten power.

"We all" know no such thing.

Anyway, this doesn't seem to have a whole lot to do with Cowen's bull PR conference.

Min

His party president was looking for funding from the Soviets back in the 1980's.
A letter that caused a libel case with de Rossa whose name was on the letter, he claimed it was a fake signature, though his party president did send it off to the Soviets.

In the case de Rossa admitted: "He agreed the WP decided to seek formal relations with the Communist Party of the Soviet Union in November 1983. ... He understood from reports that contact had also been made in the 1970s."
Mr De Rossa said the WP subsequently sought to establish formal relationships with the communist party of East Germany."
"Mr De Rossa replied that it was not a serious matter to seek funds from other parties. The money was not sought from Russia. As he understood it, it was sought from the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. It was not a crime to seek financial support from other parties."
"Mr De Rossa said they sought to establish relationships with a lot of other parties, including the North Korean Communist Party."

The Labour party were really on the ball letting these people in the party and then to allow then to take control of it...

Shea O'Meara

Every FFail thread ends with FG are the same and Labour commies :rolleyes:

FFail folk must admit, it's bad when you can't defend your party only detract with other bad elements in other parties.

Happyman42

Shea O'Meara wrote: »

it's bad

it's bad when the politically naive here think that any party or party leader would behave differently, given the circumstances.
Get some popcorn and sit back and enjoy. I do love a good party putsch.

Min

Shea O'Meara wrote: »

Every FFail thread ends with FG are the same and Labour commies :rolleyes:

FFail folk must admit, it's bad when you can't defend your party only detract with other bad elements in other parties.

I would be happy with FG getting an overall majority next election, certain people in the Labour party do have unquestioned backgrounds though.
Should we give them a free ride?

gandalf

Min wrote: »

I would be happy with FG getting an overall majority next election, certain people in the Labour party do have unquestioned backgrounds though.
Should we give them a free ride?

No you post in one of the threads about Labour though and don't try to derail this thread which last time I checked is about FF and them putting party before country.

ninty9er

Shea O'Meara wrote: »

Every FFail thread ends with FG are the same and Labour commies :rolleyes:

FFail folk must admit, it's bad when you can't defend your party only detract with other bad elements in other parties.

I think you'll find that every thread on this forum bashes FF in some manner. You will also find that none of the regular FF posters here descend to this, only convey the truth about opposition policy or individuals.

Min

gandalf wrote: »

No you post in one of the threads about Labour though and don't try to derail this thread which last time I checked is about FF and them putting party before country.

Not trying to derail anything, at least if FF or FG are talking about the party, it is internal. As posted elsewhere on this forum, Gilmore still referred to some of his own ilk as 'comrades' in the labour party. This coming from a man whose previous party looked for help from every communist regime from North Korea to the Soviet Union.

This thread is about the party, one can question who is at who's party. Labour with no real policies, it is all about the party and getting elected.

jmayo

ninty9er wrote: »

I think you'll find that every thread on this forum bashes FF in some manner. You will also find that none of the regular FF posters here descend to this, only convey the truth about opposition policy or individuals.

Has it ever crosed your mind that your party deserves to be bashed ?

No you might not descend to bashing the opposition as you claim we do, you merely support, condone and apologise for a party of inept gobdaws, chancers, tax cheats, theives, liars, frauds and wastrels.

gandalf

To be honest what proves it is about the party is the fact that they have frozen a whole week of business and attention on the so-called important Finance Bill to have a spat about who gets to be in the Wheel house when the Titanic finally sinks in six weeks!!

If these so-called public representatives cared about the country and getting us out of this mess they would just call an election and allow the people put a Government in place who actually have a mandate to make the difficult decisions.

later12

gandalf wrote: »

put a Government in place who actually have a mandate to make the difficult decisions.

Well like it or not, Fianna Fáil have a democratic mandate in line with the Constitution. So too, does any party or group of parties who control the Dáil and the Seanad until such time as their term expires or they bring it to a close themselves. It isn't up to any one individual so suddenly decide who has or has not got a mandate to govern in contradiction with the popular vote.

Shea O'Meara

ninty9er wrote: »

I think you'll find that every thread on this forum bashes FF in some manner. You will also find that none of the regular FF posters here descend to this, only convey the truth about opposition policy or individuals.

Come off it.
Every time anyone posts a factual grievance against FFail or posts that they don't believe their waffle because of A,B or C, all the FFail separatist movement can do is deflect due to the lack of any sensible real defence.
Get over the them and us.
I would vote FFail if I thought it was best for the country. It's that simple. If I thought they were/are doing a great job and are people of honour I'd be waving the FFail flag.
Normal people don't dislike FFail because of civil war issues or because of other generational family tradition.
You have to appreciate the whole 'anyone but FFail' or 'bashing' mantra only shows the blinkered attitude of your party and it's staunch supporters, which is a problem if you expect to be taken seriously. Dismissing any anti-FFail feeling to blinkered hatred for no reason, is kind of weird and presupposes everyone thinks like FFail.

gandalf

later10 wrote: »

Well like it or not, Fianna Fáil have a democratic mandate in line with the Constitution. So too, does any party or group of parties who control the Dáil and the Seanad until such time as their term expires or they bring it to a close themselves. It isn't up to any one individual so suddenly decide who has or has not got a mandate to govern in contradiction with the popular vote.

While technically you are right there is no way a party that is now getting 14% in the polls should be leading this country especially given the complete and utter mess that they have made out of our economy. They have been so incompetent that they have had to call in the ECB/IMF to help rectify their mistakes. In doing so they have ceded our financial sovereignty and indebted severely not only this generation but probably the next two generations of Irish citizens.

Again I say they have no mandate and should stand aside with immediate effect and let a government take charge that have the confidence of the people and not a pack of self serving ego manics who obviously do not give a damn about the country and its citizens.

Liam Byrne

ninty9er wrote: »

I think you'll find that every thread on this forum bashes FF in some manner.

Please enlighten us as to your distinction between "bashing" and "well deserved criticism based on what they've done to the country" ?

To me "bashing" is unwarranted, while "stating the bleedin' obvious re where they've landed us" is valid criticism.

Unfortunately your leader's stock response to such criticism is "I don't accept that", which probably leads FF members to not recognise the truth.

In fairness, though, it has to be said that you're not the worst of those who have their head in the sand, but there is a grain of truth in what I've said based on your liberal use of the word "bashing".