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Do you have confidence in Brian Cowen?

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124

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    #92
    Irish-trucker
    Registered Users Posts: 296 ✭✭Irish-trucker


    Nope! would have more faith in Kermit the frog running the country :rolleyes:


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    #93
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Irish-trucker wrote: »
    Nope! would have more faith in Kermit the frog running the country :rolleyes:

    Dr Michael Somers has fingered the Civil Service as the major culprit behind the financial mismanagement.

    How can other politicians tackle this or them ???

    'No pressure from Brians' - Somers

    Former NTMA chief executive points finger at senior Finance mandarins


    By RONALD QUINLAN

    Sunday January 16 2011

    THE former chief executive of the NTMA, Dr Michael Somers, has revealed how he came under pressure from officials at a "high level" in the Department of Finance to put more money into the Irish banking system in the final months of 2007.
    Speaking to the Sunday Independent last night, Dr Somers dismissed the suggestion that he had come under political pressure to step in to help the banks -- and specifically Anglo Irish Bank -- and stated in no uncertain terms that too much blame had been put on the 'two Brians' (Cowen and Lenihan) for the their roles in the banking crisis.
    "They were thrown in at the deep end and I'm not quite sure that there was sufficient expertise available to them in what is possibly the worst financial crisis this country has ever faced," said Dr Somers.
    "They (Brian Cowen and Brian Lenihan) think I'm out to get them. I'm not. I think, in fairness to the two of them, they did put in an awful lot of effort in it and it wasn't easy."
    Referring to a letter marked 'strictly confidential' which the then-Finance Minister Brian Cowen had written to him in December 2007, in which Mr Cowen requested his "views" on the role the NTMA could play in helping to maintain financial stability, Dr Somers revealed how this had been preceded by several months of pressure from senior officials in the Department of Finance.
    It was this official pressure, and not Mr Cowen's letter that had prompted him to seek legal advice on the NTMA's position when it came to taking a risk with the Irish banking system.


    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/no-pressure-from-brians-somers-2498059.html


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    #94
    newmug
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,571 ✭✭✭newmug


    Storminateacup wrote: »
    Because he didn't make people take out full morgages on houses they realistically could not afford.

    No, but he freely allowed it to happen, and he actually encouraged th un-affordibility of houses (by reducing stamp duty, for example) while every economist in economyland was screaming about the bubble about to burst.

    Storminateacup wrote: »
    Because he didn't make us live beyond our means.

    Well, actually he did. He caused the bubble to inflate, thereby pushing up the cost of living, and hence demand for higher wages. Its a vicious circle, and it was his job to manage it. He failed miserably.
    Storminateacup wrote: »
    Oh everybody loved FF when they were raising the social welfare, when they weren't rising the price of a pint, when they were handing out medical cards to everybody in sundry.

    Indeed they did! Us orinary people have this agreement that we'll elect experts who know what they're doing to run stuff like that. The experts are called politicians, and the agreement is called democracy. When these supposed experts put themselves forward for such employment, the expectation is that they know what they're doing and that they're truthful. Just like you put your trust in a GP! So, when they run things well, ordinary people think "Great, these lads are doing well. We'll reward them by electing them in again. This will also benefit us as we know we're in good hands".

    However, in hindsight its clear that FF weren't truthful. They knew what they were doing alright though, they were taking advantage of the "wages - cost of living - debt" cycle. They inflated this cycle from a suitably sized one for our country, to one thats way too much for our country. And they did this purposely to get elected back in office! For another few quid! A bigger pension to them has cost us 120 Billion. They deserve to be jailed for fraud for the rest of their natural lives.

    Storminateacup wrote: »
    Do you remember though, the outrage from FG? They claimed the social welfare wasn't raised enough. There wasn't enough given to XYZ.
    They didn't say "Hold on now, we really should be tightening our belts".

    Yes, FG are just as bad. However, they are like the messers in class who got away with it cos there were worse messers who were caught. They will now be quiet and behave cos they see that the biggest messers are in deep sh1t.

    Storminateacup wrote: »
    Its easy to point the finger after the crap has hit the fan, isn't it?

    Yes! It is! The point is there shouldnt have been any interaction between the manure and the air conditioning!
    Storminateacup wrote: »
    And I personally have no faith in opposition whose sole mission is to shout down and ridicule the leader of the country.

    I agree. But they're the best of a bad lot at the moment. And cowen isn't the "leader" of the country, he's the leader of FF, who, as the government at the moment, are the ultimate subordinates to the Irish people.

    Storminateacup wrote: »
    You know what -- I can't wait til FG or Labour get into government. Just to watch them **** up, and fail. Because this is global. There ain't a thing they will be realistically able to do better.

    Thats a very me-feining, sociopathic attitude. Kinda like the attitude of FF. You wouldnt be a supporter now would you?

    As for the "global" excuse, the recession is prettymuch over everywhere else.


    punchdrunk wrote: »
    Does enda have some magic,****ing wand I didn't hear about???

    No, but he has a lesser degree of corruption and incompetance than cowen. That'll do for now!


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    #95
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    tonycascarino wrote: »
    11 tossers voted yes so far.

    It's AH, FFS - if the poll asked if the earth was flat 10 people would vote "Yes"

    Plus Cowen probably has an internet connection.


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    #96
    TeddyTedson
    Registered Users Posts: 10,758 ✭✭✭✭TeddyTedson


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    It's AH, FFS - if the poll asked if the earth was flat 10 people would vote "Yes"

    Plus Cowen probably has an internet connection.
    Would never vote for FF but I think Cowen knows what needs to be done, so I guess kind of do, yea.


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    #97
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    TeddyTedson wrote: »
    Would never vote for FF but I think Cowen knows what needs to be done, so I guess kind of do, yea.

    "I don't accept that"

    How do you reckon he "knows what needs to be done" ? And for whose benefit is that "needs to" ?

    He doesn't even know the reasons for FF's unpopularity, FFS!!!!


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    #98
    TeddyTedson
    Registered Users Posts: 10,758 ✭✭✭✭TeddyTedson


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    "I don't accept that"

    How do you reckon he "knows what needs to be done" ? And for whose benefit is that "needs to" ?

    He doesn't even know the reasons for FF's unpopularity, FFS!!!!
    Don't hate me, but, I keep hearing people internationally (politicians ect) saying Ireland is doing everything right.
    Gordon Brown said it on the late late show and one of the financial papers in the states said the 4 year plan was the right thing to be doing.
    I'm not forgetting he put us here either,
    it's criminal Bertie Ahern has been let get away with everything he's done and act like an Irish celebrity.


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    #99
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    TeddyTedson wrote: »
    Don't hate me, but, I keep hearing people internationally (politicians ect) saying Ireland is doing everything right.
    Gordon Brown said it on the late late show and one of the financial papers in the states said the 4 year plan was the right thing to be doing.
    I'm not forgetting he put us here either,
    it's criminal Bertie Ahern has been let get away with everything he's done and act like an Irish celebrity.

    I have no idea what agenda those international politicians have, or whether they know the facts about the crash.

    Maybe they want to see our corporation tax changed to suit themselves? Maybe they believe the FF spin that everyone got greedy, and therefore incorrectly see FF taxing us to get it back as "just and fair" ?

    All I know is that robbing €22,000 and counting from people is wrong, not right.


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    #100
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    newmug wrote: »



    I agree. But they're the best of a bad lot at the moment. And cowen isn't the "leader" of the country, he's the leader of FF, who, as the government at the moment, are the ultimate subordinates to the Irish people.!

    I am amazed how much people downplay the role/importance of the CS here.


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    #101
    MickShamrock
    Registered Users Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭MickShamrock


    No. Plain and simple.


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    #102
    Mr Freeze
    Registered Users Posts: 6,618 ✭✭✭Mr Freeze


    No.

    But I hope he wins the confidence vote in himself and does led FF into the next election, I think they will sustain much bigger losses with him still as leader, he is the party's worst enemy at the moment, so leave him where he is.

    I would hate to see FF get a new leader, and then see them go up a few points in the polls.


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    #103
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    We seem to be heading into an election , not based on electing a leader with the most amount of competence, but based on the least amount of incompetence and press handling ability.

    If the guy is incompetent then he should go. Simple as.

    Am I the only person who thinks the system is not serving us well and this is wrong.


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    #104
    De Dannan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 486 ✭✭De Dannan


    What difference does it make who is the leader of Fianna Fail ?
    They are going to get a pasting in the next election. They have all been proven to be at the very least incompetent, at worst perhaps corrupt
    Its funny now they are finally realising that they may lose their little seats of power, that they thought they had a God given right to beacuse they were Fianna Fail :pac:


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    #105
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    The leaders of other parties would need to be photographed in bed with a sheep , or worse, for it to make a difference.

    I cant see any change on the way though.

    I am still left with a choice between the Feck All Party and the Damn All Party and the Public Service Employees Party.

    What have I ever done to any politician to deserve this ???


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    #106
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users Posts: 24,003 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    CDfm wrote: »
    The leaders of other parties would need to be photographed in bed with a sheep , or worse, for it to make a difference.

    I cant see any change on the way though.

    I am still left with a choice between the Feck All Party and the Damn All Party and the Public Service Employees Party.

    What have I ever done to any politician to deserve this ???

    Not handed over the brown envelope.:(


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    #107
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    ejmaztec wrote: »
    Not handed over the brown envelope.:(

    You havent answered my point.I am talking about ability, policy & government and personally would not care if the Taoiseach and Cabinet had hookers and booze weekends in Farmleigh every weekend as long as the country was well run.

    I also find it laughable that election funds are paid out to political parties from our taxes.

    That is hardly democratic and just how ludicrous it is is that it works against small parties and groups and independents going forward.

    So yes, object to brown envelopes, and criminalise it but also explain how the new rules have curbed democracy in Ireland.


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    #108
    Also
    Closed Accounts Posts: 45 ✭Also


    I hope he stays as leader of FF, because that means FF can't claim "Well we have a new leader, TADAH! We've changed we'd be much better now if you voted us in", and some eej*ts will believe it and vote for them! So hopefully the motion of confidence succeeds, Cowen stays and FF's obliteration will be maximised come the election.


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    #109
    Tchaikovsky
    Registered Users Posts: 2,185 ✭✭✭Tchaikovsky


    I expect these stats to be published in tomorrow's Independent.


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    #110
    ilovesleep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭ilovesleep


    Tchaikovsky wrote: »
    I expect these stats to be published in tomorrow's Independent.

    Really hope that happens.

    Would anyone have the email addresses of all FF TDs. Post them here please. If we could all email them a link to this thread that would be great.

    A message to FF: You have turned Ireland into a banana republic. Please FCUK OFF NOW. The lot of ye just go. Leave your pensions behind please. Ireland needs the money to stay alive. Try and get work in supermacs. Although you wouldnt be trusted on the tills so your chances will be slim. And Brian Cowen would eat all around him. Just please **** OFF.


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    #111
    the groutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,096 ✭✭✭✭the groutch


    forget about the swine flu, there's an epidemic of finger-slippage, 25 cases already confirmed


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    #112
    goat2
    Registered Users Posts: 4,939 ✭✭✭goat2


    after his interview today on radio, i have gained confidence in mr cowen,,, while i would not have confidence in m martain after also hearing him on radio.


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    #113
    profitius
    Registered Users Posts: 3,976 ✭✭✭profitius


    Gangsters the lot of them. Whoever votes for them in the next 15 years needs a brain transplant.


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    #114
    profitius
    Registered Users Posts: 3,976 ✭✭✭profitius


    goat2 wrote: »
    after his interview today on radio, i have gained confidence in mr cowen,,, while i would not have confidence in m martain after also hearing him on radio.

    How do you tell politicians are lieing? They open their mouth.


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    #115
    goat2
    Registered Users Posts: 4,939 ✭✭✭goat2


    profitius wrote: »
    Gangsters the lot of them. Whoever votes for them in the next 15 years needs a brain transplant.
    i dont have my mind made up on how i will be voting, if i do vote.
    but what improvement would labour of fine gael, or sinn fein bring on, would they do what is right for this country


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    #116
    HellFireClub
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭HellFireClub


    What p*sses me off about a lot of this debate is the discussion that is going on around Cowen and his "personality", his "style of leadership", his "communication skills"...

    Let's have a brief discussion on the subject of RESULTS... Here's a guy who utterly believes in a political party that has wrecked this country, let's also leave that aside for a second... Let's just accept that the country is in an absolute mess...

    When Cowen is evaluated under the RESULTS heading, he is one thing and one thing only and that thing is an absolute FAILURE. I'm so sick of hearing a grumpy obese FAILURE, being described in terms of his personality traits. I couldn't give a f*ck what he looks like or what he sounds like, I'm only interested in discussing the results he has achieved for this country.

    There is no question here but that he is to running this country what Steve Staunton was to the national soccer team, how any person could suggest that he should remain in place is something that actually terrifies me..


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    #117
    JohnathanM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 410 ✭✭JohnathanM


    the groutch wrote: »
    forget about the swine flu, there's an epidemic of finger-slippage, 25 cases already confirmed

    You just wait until people get in the booths. I'd be very surprised to see the actual percentage of morons voting FF to be anywhere near as low as it appears they might be. Hope I'm wrong, but...


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    #118
    th3 s1aught3r
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,925 ✭✭✭th3 s1aught3r


    CDfm wrote: »
    The leaders of other parties would need to be photographed in bed with a sheep , or worse, for it to make a difference.

    Indeed :)
    What deed of unimaginable deviency would the opposition have to do in order for FF to win the next election ?


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    #119
    goat2
    Registered Users Posts: 4,939 ✭✭✭goat2


    JohnathanM wrote: »
    You just wait until people get in the booths. I'd be very surprised to see the actual percentage of morons voting FF to be anywhere near as low as it appears they might be. Hope I'm wrong, but...
    if it goes on the likes of debate that we heard today on the radio with brian cowen at the helm, yes they will be getting the votes, and all those indipendents who are really ff will be joining them for another few yrs, but if you think about it, they have learned from the past 12 yrs running this country, not to cock up again


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    #120
    ilovesleep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭ilovesleep


    JohnathanM wrote: »
    You just wait until people get in the booths. I'd be very surprised to see the actual percentage of morons voting FF to be anywhere near as low as it appears they might be. Hope I'm wrong, but...

    Suicide is looking like an attractive option for me. But dont worry I wont do anything until after I vote against FF.


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    #121
    ilovesleep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭ilovesleep


    goat2 wrote: »
    if it goes on the likes of debate that we heard today on the radio with brian cowen at the helm, yes they will be getting the votes, and all those indipendents who are really ff will be joining them for another few yrs, but if you think about it, they have learned from the past 12 yrs running this country, not to cock up again

    No one will ever be in prison for what they have done if FF gets in again. A new government is needed to send the lot of FF, bankers and developers into mountjoy.


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