RTE - National broadcasting service?

babarino

I reside in Co. Down and I can't get RTE TV unless I subscribe to SKY. I don't want to do this for many reasons, apart from feeling that I shouldn’t have to.


It was my understanding that under the Good Friday Agreement , RTE was to extend coverage throughout the 32 counties.



Is anyone aware of any explanation why this hasn't happened? Or better still when is it going to happen? A switchover from analogue to digital is recommended by the EU for 2012. Is that the date? Are they on track?

amacachi

They're free to extend it into the North AFAIK, not under any obligation, and I'd be surprised if the GFA specifically addressed the issue. You must just live in a hollow or pretty far from the border because my family in the North have always been able to get RTE from Crossmaglen to Newry and near Banbridge.

babarino

I live about 7 miles north of Warrenpoint, near the foothills of the Mournes, which is pretty close to the border.

Many people I know in the area get it ok, others don't. My point is that we should all get it. It was promised under the Good Friday Agreement (GFA).

RTE presenters have been known to bleat about others not fulfilling their obligations under the GFA. I'm just wondering why RTE haven't fulfilled this one.

Skid

Looks like RTE/TG4 will be coming to the north on digital (freeview?), probably after the analogue switch off.

http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Press+Releases/RTE+and+TG4+available+in+NI.htm

Following a broad range of technical work, the two Governments have now agreed that the most effective way to provide for the continuing provision of TG4 is by building a new, low power TV multiplex in Northern Ireland. In addition to carrying TG4, this multiplex, which will be part of the UK DTT system, will also carry RTÉ 1 and RTÉ 2. It is hoped that this will further increase the coverage of these channels in Northern Ireland, enabling approximately 90% of the population in Northern Ireland to receive their services on a free-to-air basis, either through overspill as before or via the new multiplex.

babarino

Thanks for that SkidMark. I did a few searches earlier and didn't come across this. I'll give them a call for an update.

hotmail.com

RTE is obliged to cover events in the North, this is part of the station's original charter and afaik had nothing to do with the Good Fri Agreement.

Only things RTE cover with regard to the North is all the political stuff and since that's been quiet the last 10 years, RTE barely mentions the North in it's news bulletins.

telekon

Wait a minute. I take it viewers in the north dont pay the draconian license fee. How is this fair?? :mad:

babarino

telekon wrote: »

Wait a minute. I take it viewers in the north dont pay the draconian license fee. How is this fair?? :mad:

I'd be prepared to pay it. Is that the problem?

I believe the Good Friday Agreement mandated TG4, I'm not so sure about the other channels. Anyway, when the Saorsat service launches in the summer you should be able to get it.

telekon

babarino wrote: »

I'd be prepared to pay it. Is that the problem?

No. The fact there's a license fee at all is the problem.

Having to pay for the privilige of ensuring Tubridy, Duffy and Co earn top dollar is infuriating. :mad:

As you could imagine...

Minstrel27

babarino wrote: »

I reside in Co. Down and I can't get RTE TV unless I subscribe to SKY. I don't want to do this for many reasons, apart from feeling that I shouldn’t have to.


It was my understanding that under the Good Friday Agreement , RTE was to extend coverage throughout the 32 counties.



Is anyone aware of any explanation why this hasn't happened? Or better still when is it going to happen? A switchover from analogue to digital is recommended by the EU for 2012. Is that the date? Are they on track?

RTÉ should sort out reception here before sorting out you guys up north.

babarino

telekon wrote: »

No. The fact there's a license fee at all is the problem.

Having to pay for the privilige of ensuring Tubridy, Duffy and Co earn top dollar is infuriating. :mad:

As you could imagine...

I agree that they're incredibly overpaid. I know it's down to taste, but some are very good broadcasters, such as Tubridy, but generally are given far too much airtime and their continous use of the same reference points gets to be annoying.


Regarding the other poster and sorting out 'down there' before sorting me 'up here', it's supposed to be a national broadcasting service. We are all entitled to a reception, and as I said before, and I don't expect it for nothing. Stormont could give a share of the license fee to the south, based on viewing figures. In UTV land we're going to be treated to a royal wedding for the next few months. Then again, RTE will probably go to town on it too, and then bend over backwards to show a céad míle fáilte when she arrives here.

Minstrel27

babarino wrote: »

Regarding the other poster and sorting out 'down there' before sorting me 'up here', it's supposed to be a national broadcasting service. We are all entitled to a reception,

The last time I checked it was evident that you come from a different country and don't pay a single cent towards RTÉ.

So why would you feel that you are entitled to have RTÉ reception before someone who actually pays the Irish television licence? Stormont will not be giving any of the UK licence fee to south of the border. How could they?

I don't see what the royal wedding or the queens visit has to do with any of this.

Kotek Besar

Shakyfan

To those whinging about people in the north not paying a licence fee, we do - for the British channels which you can get for free!

BTW OP maybe you need a booster aeriel of some sort?

Minstrel27

Shakyfan wrote: »

To those whinging about people in the north not paying a licence fee, we do - for the British channels which you can get for free!

You should read the thread before making such remarks. Perhaps you would like to answer my question.

Why should RTÉ strive to provide a signal to viewers in Northern Ireland before somebody from Ireland?

babarino

I'm as Irish as anyone living in the south. Beyond that I'm not going to get into a nonsense discussion over whether RTE should or shouldn't provide a service in the 6 counties. I was simply looking to know when it's going to happen.

Thanks to SkidMark I now know they're working on it, and it should happen in 2012.

JonathanAnon

Shakyfan wrote: »

BTW OP maybe you need a booster aeriel of some sort?

I was gonna suggest something similar.. If your friends can get it but you cant, maybe you are living between hills or something... There are people down south who cant get great reception either.

Minstrel27

You are from Northern Ireland and you are deliberately ignoring my question. I will ask you again.

Why should RTÉ guarantee reception for people from another country (yes, you are from another country) before looking after viewers south of the border?

Kotek Besar

babarino wrote: »

I'm as Irish as anyone living in the south.

I'm sure you are, but you don't live in the jurisdiction of the Irish state broadcaster.

Mr.Nice Guy

Minstrel27 wrote: »

The last time I checked it was evident that you come from a different country and don't pay a single cent towards RTÉ.

So why would you feel that you are entitled to have RTÉ reception before someone who actually pays the Irish television licence? Stormont will not be giving any of the UK licence fee to south of the border. How could they?

I don't see what the royal wedding or the queens visit has to do with any of this.

As shown already on the thread RTE has a commitment to providing TV for the North and opens its phonelines regularly to the North and is happy to add to its coffers via viewers up there. I don't see any problem. I doubt you would be making a similar argument if the BBC were to stop providing television to the ROI on the grounds that Irish people are not paying for a British license fee. The BBC is aeons ahead of RTE in terms of quality in all honesty.

Minstrel27

Where did I ever say I had a problem with RTE being in Northern Ireland? What is it with people only seeing what they want to see.

What I asked is why should RTÉ work to be in more Northern Ireland homes when there are houses here in this country that pay a licence fee yet have no signal. I am going to assume that nobody here can answer this.

I am sure you will still fail to see the question that I am asking.

And what does the BBC being aeons ahead of RTÉ in terms of quality have to do with anything?

Mr.Nice Guy

You are jumping down the OP's throat asking why he wants reception before someone down the south. He never suggested such a thing. He simply asked why he couldn't get the service. It turns out that RTE aims to have the service available to the North so there is nothing wrong with his query. Perhaps you are seeing what you want to see?

The question you are posing is more appropriate for RTE itself rather than the OP. Personally I've not heard of any reports of people paying a license fee and being deprived of a signal.

Minstrel27

He stated that he was entitled to reception when he clearly isn't.

babarino wrote: »

it's supposed to be a national broadcasting service. We are all entitled to a reception

I want to know where this sense of entitlement comes from.


If you believe that there isn't areas of this country with no terrestrial reception, you really need to take your head out of the sand.

Johnmb

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Personally I've not heard of any reports of people paying a license fee and being deprived of a signal.

:eek: Then either you don't pay much attention, or maths isn't a good subject for you! 90% coverage (or whatever the exact amount is for analogue) means 10% don't get, or are being deprived of, a signal. That 10% must still have a TV license if they have a TV.

As for the question as to whether or not the Irish channels are to be made available in the north, as already said, they'll get them via spillover when Saorsat is up and running, that'll do them the same way the overspill from Freesat does us. If they want it via aerial, then fair enough, as long as the set up costs for the muxes etc is entirely at their expense. We shouldn't be paying for them to watch our channels any more than they should be paying for us to watch their channels. RTE is the national broadcaster, as the OP says, but the nation it broadcasts to is Ireland, not the UK, so why the OP would use the fact that RTE is a national broadcaster as a reason to expect to receive the signal in part of the UK is beyond me.

Shakyfan

Minstrel27 wrote: »

Why should RTÉ strive to provide a signal to viewers in Northern Ireland before somebody from Ireland?

Perhaps YOU should read it yourself! No-one was saying that!

My point was that people in the north have access to the southern channels without paying a licence fee there but it works the other way too....

Mr.Nice Guy

Minstrel27 wrote: »

He stated that he was entitled to reception when he clearly isn't.

I want to know where this sense of entitlement comes from.

RTE have explicitly stated they want to provide a service for people in NI. That's where the sense of entitlement comes from - the impression RTE give. Also I never said there weren't areas of the country with no terrestrial reception, I said I had not heard of this.

Johnmb wrote:

:eek: Then either you don't pay much attention, or maths isn't a good subject for you! 90% coverage (or whatever the exact amount is for analogue) means 10% don't get, or are being deprived of, a signal. That 10% must still have a TV license if they have a TV.

I stay informed and it's not something I've heard a great deal of outrage about. In fairness you don't seem to know the exact amount yourself.

Johnmb wrote:

RTE is the national broadcaster, as the OP says, but the nation it broadcasts to is Ireland, not the UK, so why the OP would use the fact that RTE is a national broadcaster as a reason to expect to receive the signal in part of the UK is beyond me.

The Irish constitution maybe...?

It is the entitlement and birthright of every person born in the island of Ireland, which includes its islands and seas, to be part of the Irish Nation. That is also the entitlement of all persons otherwise qualified in accordance with law to be citizens of Ireland.

I think some people are confusing a nation with a state. The two are not necessarily one and the same as the Irish state has tried to make out since its creation. When RTE styles itself as a national broadcaster it is evidently viewing its role as being geared towards the whole island and not just being limited to 26 counties (hence why they want to be in more homes north of the border, why competitions are open to people in NI, the coverage given in the news and weather etc.)

I've no problem on any level with a person from NI wanting to watch RTE other than a problem of taste because I'm not sure what value they're getting having it these days.

Johnmb

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

RTE have explicitly stated they want to provide a service for people in NI. That's where the sense of entitlement comes from - the impression RTE give.

I want to give the world a coke, should everyone now feel entitlement to getting a free bottle of coke from me now?

I stay informed and it's not something I've heard a great deal of outrage about. In fairness you don't seem to know the exact amount yourself.

That currently depends on the channel, and what level of reception you would consider to be coverage. The official line is that RTE 1&2 have 98% coverage (i.e. 2% don't get a signal, who knows how many get a very poor signal), TG4 has 95% coverage (5% get no signal), TV3 has 85% coverage (15% get no signal). (All for analogue, DTT is currently 90% coverage for all channels, 10% get no signal)

The Irish constitution maybe...?

I'm pretty sure the Irish constitution doesn't mention the coverage area of RTE, and the OP doesn't make any claims about our constitution entitling him to reception of RTE.

I think some people are confusing a nation with a state. The two are not necessarily one and the same as the Irish state has tried to make out since its creation. When RTE styles itself as a national broadcaster it is evidently viewing its role as being geared towards the whole island and not just being limited to 26 counties (hence why they want to be in more homes north of the border, why competitions are open to people in NI, the coverage given in the news and weather etc.)

If that was the case, how come RTE have never instructed An Post to chase down people in Northern Ireland for non-payment of the license fee? While RTE are happy to make money off anyone from the north who can view the channels via overspill, or subscription services, they have never indicated that they view the north as part of their "customer" base, that has always been the license payers, who are all located in Ireland exclusively.

I've no problem on any level with a person from NI wanting to watch RTE other than a problem of taste because I'm not sure what value they're getting having it these days.

I have no problem with them watching RTE either, but to feel that they are entitled to view it without having to pay any set up costs themselves is something I have a problem with. If the OP wants to receive RTE so badly, then he should be getting on to whoever manages the relevant infrastructure in the north, not expecting RTE to be doing this. Once they don't object or put a stop to it, the OP shouldn't be expecting RTE to have anything to do with the norths terrestrial TV system.

Mr.Nice Guy

Johnmb wrote: »

I want to give the world a coke, should everyone now feel entitlement to getting a free bottle of coke from me now?

It is well within RTE's reach though to provide a service to NI (they already are doing so for many homes) whereas your suggestion is impossible.

Johnmb wrote:

That currently depends on the channel, and what level of reception you would consider to be coverage. The official line is that RTE 1&2 have 98% coverage (i.e. 2% don't get a signal, who knows how many get a very poor signal), TG4 has 95% coverage (5% get no signal), TV3 has 85% coverage (15% get no signal). (All for analogue, DTT is currently 90% coverage for all channels, 10% get no signal)

OK, thanks for that.

Johnmb wrote:

I'm pretty sure the Irish constitution doesn't mention the coverage area of RTE, and the OP doesn't make any claims about our constitution entitling him to reception of RTE.

If that was the case, how come RTE have never instructed An Post to chase down people in Northern Ireland for non-payment of the license fee? While RTE are happy to make money off anyone from the north who can view the channels via overspill, or subscription services, they have never indicated that they view the north as part of their "customer" base, that has always been the license payers, who are all located in Ireland exclusively.

There's no if about it. This is the case. There was mockery of the OP's claim that a national broadcaster should provide for NI on the grounds that they felt NI was a different country. Well the constitution at present declares that anyone in Ireland is entitled to be part of the Irish nation (and before the constitution was amended it went further and used to suggest the island, ie the territory, WAS the nation and this was around the time RTE was first established!) so since the beginning RTE would have viewed it as important to present itself as a national, i.e all-island, channel. People in NI haven't been chased for a license because they are not part of the Irish state, but notice RTE are quite happy to charge them for competitions.

Johnmb wrote:

I have no problem with them watching RTE either, but to feel that they are entitled to view it without having to pay any set up costs themselves is something I have a problem with. If the OP wants to receive RTE so badly, then he should be getting on to whoever manages the relevant infrastructure in the north, not expecting RTE to be doing this. Once they don't object or put a stop to it, the OP shouldn't be expecting RTE to have anything to do with the norths terrestrial TV system.

RTE are very keen on being a permanent presence in the North. I don't see why anyone would get upset at a person in NI wanting to see a service that the organisation itself wants them to see. People in this part of the island have been quite happy to look at British TV for decades without paying a British license fee as people in the North have had to do. I'm guessing similarly people in France aren't complaining that a lot of us here have been able to access TV5 for a long time. What is the problem exactly? As far as I can see this is a non-issue. Anyway I've said all I have to say on this. Here's hoping soon one day all homes on the island will have access to RTE so we can all simultaneously switch over to the BBC to watch superior telly. :cool:

babarino

Minstrel27 wrote: »

You should read the thread before making such remarks. Perhaps you would like to answer my question.

Why should RTÉ strive to provide a signal to viewers in Northern Ireland before somebody from Ireland?

Who said northerners should get coverage before southerners? I get it Minstrel, you're a joker, having a laugh. I suggest that you get on with any homework you've been given.

Geography clearly isn't your strongpoint. The state "Northern Ireland" is in Ireland. Do you follow GAA? Ask yourself who contested the All Ireland Football in 2010?

Maybe you're a rugger boy. All going well Stephen Ferris, Andrew Trimble will be wearing the green in Lansdowne Road in a few weeks, singing:

"Ireland, Ireland, together standing tall,
shoulder to shoulder, we'll answer Ireland's call for...RTE coverage."

Minstrel27

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

There was mockery of the OP's claim that a national broadcaster should provide for NI on the grounds that they felt NI was a different country. Well the constitution at present declares that anyone in Ireland is entitled to be part of the Irish nation (and before the constitution was amended it went further and used to suggest the island, ie the territory, WAS the nation and this was around the time RTE was first established!) so since the beginning RTE would have viewed it as important to present itself as a national, i.e all-island, channel. People in NI haven't been chased for a license because they are not part of the Irish state, but notice RTE are quite happy to charge them for competitions.

There was no mockery. It was a simple question on their entitlement. Northern Ireland is right now at this very moment a separate country to us. It forms a part of the United Kingdom. The Irish constitution does not change that.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

RTE are very keen on being a permanent presence in the North. I don't see why anyone would get upset at a person in NI wanting to see a service that the organisation itself wants them to see.

Who is getting upset at viewers in Northern Ireland viewing RTÉ services? I merely questioned the expansion into Northern Ireland when some people who actually pay are still being denied a signal.

Please stop the intentional misreading of what I write.

Johnmb

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

It is well within RTE's reach though to provide a service to NI (they already are doing so for many homes) whereas your suggestion is impossible.

It's not within RTE's reach, they need to use the infrastructure of a foreign country to do so.

There's no if about it. This is the case. There was mockery of the OP's claim that a national broadcaster should provide for NI on the grounds that they felt NI was a different country.

There's no "felt" about it, it is reality.

Well the constitution at present declares that anyone in Ireland is entitled to be part of the Irish nation

Yep, and if they want to view RTE, they can move here. Or do you think RTE should have to provide coverage to all Irish citizens? The US, Australian, UK, French, German, etc authorities may have a problem with that.

(and before the constitution was amended it went further and used to suggest the island, ie the territory, WAS the nation and this was around the time RTE was first established!) so since the beginning RTE would have viewed it as important to present itself as a national, i.e all-island, channel. People in NI haven't been chased for a license because they are not part of the Irish state, but notice RTE are quite happy to charge them for competitions.

And once again, nothing in the constitution says RTE was to cover the whole island, and RTE would only consider the license payers to be entitled to anything (not value for money, but coverage). Northern Irish are charged to enter competitions, not to view the channel.

RTE are very keen on being a permanent presence in the North. I don't see why anyone would get upset at a person in NI wanting to see a service that the organisation itself wants them to see. People in this part of the island have been quite happy to look at British TV for decades without paying a British license fee as people in the North have had to do. I'm guessing similarly people in France aren't complaining that a lot of us here have been able to access TV5 for a long time. What is the problem exactly? As far as I can see this is a non-issue. Anyway I've said all I have to say on this. Here's hoping soon one day all homes on the island will have access to RTE so we can all simultaneously switch over to the BBC to watch superior telly. :cool:

You obviously either have a comprehension problem, or are deliberately ignoring what has been said in order to create a strawman argument that you think you can win. Nobody has ever tried to force any of the British TV channels to pay for our infrastructure to be adjusted to carry their channels. Nobody has asked, or expected TV5 to pay for carriage here. None of the channels you mention are carried on the Irish terrestrial system btw. Nor do most of us feel we are "entitled" to view those channels and expect to see them at the channels own expense, we just take advantage of their overspill.

Kotek Besar

babarino wrote: »

Geography clearly isn't your strongpoint. The state "Northern Ireland" is in Ireland.

Elmo

amacachi wrote: »

They're free to extend it into the North AFAIK, not under any obligation, and I'd be surprised if the GFA specifically addressed the issue. You must just live in a hollow or pretty far from the border because my family in the North have always been able to get RTE from Crossmaglen to Newry and near Banbridge.

RTÉ is not mention in the GFA but TG4 is committed to coverage in the North within the GFA. Under an MOU the between the UK and Irish Government RTÉ 1, 2 and TG4 will be available on FreeView north of the boarder, while BBC NI and UTV are to be made available on the pay Muxes of the commercial DTT service if it ever starts up. RTÉ also wish to provide FTA signal thought out the Island on SaorSat, made up possible of RTÉ 1, 2, NEWS NOW, TV3(unlikely) and TG4. (RTÉ Plus and Jr if they get up and running). While under EU law no TV service from another EU country can be prevented from broadcast into other EU countries, English channels have made much of this rule in Ireland taking nearly 60million in advertising from the Irish Market without any Irish Broadcasting commitments or laws.

Currently UK channels are available for free on satellite and via Spillover. Irish Terrestrial should be available in some areas of the north and possibly parts of Wales. RTÉ are still committed to an International Channel (even if they can't afford it, however this continues to seem unlikely.)

Also if it is of any interest the outgoing DG and the Director of TV at RTÉ are both from Northern Ireland.