Anyone used Indian-based "Business Pro Designs" for cheap website ?

jimmmy

Anyone used http://www.businessprocreatives.com/Portfolio.php for their website?
I have had a number of unsolicited phone calls from them. They appear to be indian based although with a UK address on some of their advertising. They seemingly have done websites for hundreds of satisfied customers in Ireland. ( inc champion sports www.champion.ie they said ) . On their portfolio they have examples of dozens if not hundreds of Irish websites, inc some which are very good looking. I am wondering if anyone here has used them + would recommend them or not ?

fishy21

there are alot of cons about outsourcing web design overseas, and only one pro which is the cost. Do a search on here there was a good thread this topic recently.

Dirk Gently

heavy on the pushy hard sell, light on after sales communication once they have your CC details.

tricky D

This is the thread fishy21 refers to: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056133037

This crowd do have an impressive number of clients in their portfolio and the designs look 'nice' too. However looking pretty is only a small but excessively weighted aspect of web design. There's a lot more going on than the visual matters. Also, looking at some of their sites, they use a lot of bad practices and don't tick some vital boxes well which will increase long term costs possibly resulting in false economy. clown bag's comment isn't a surprise.

MrMatisse

If you are going to outsource go through elance.com or something, you have more protection

jimmmy

tricky D wrote: »

This crowd do have an impressive number of clients in their portfolio and the designs look 'nice' too. However looking pretty is only a small but excessively weighted aspect of web design. There's a lot more going on than the visual matters. Also, looking at some of their sites, they use a lot of bad practices and don't tick some vital boxes well which will increase long term costs possibly resulting in false economy.

Could you please specify which "bad practices / vital boxes " you are referring to ? The multinational firm based in India say its the little Irish web designers who do not tick the vital boxes / provide all the features as their websites do.

Anyway, thanks for the replies so far. I am really wondering if anyone here has used them + would recommend them or not ?....and can they provide details ( well, the name ) of their website as designed by "Business Pro Designs" to verify their comments ?

A good few posters on this forum seem to be Irish website designers, or good friends of Irish website designers, who have a vested interest in putting down the work of their overseas competitors. I do not have a vested interest in web design, I am simply interested in getting a website made for the best value for money. I know someone here in Dublin who I could sit down beside would have obvious advantages, but if that person wants ten times the wages of what someone in India - who has the same or better qualifications - will work for, my budget dictates I may have to go for the cheaper quote. Quality wise, www.champion.ie ( who I have no connection with ) + the other indian designed websites reassures me that if its good enough for them...

tricky D

jimmmy wrote: »

Could you please specify which "bad practices / vital boxes " you are referring to ? The multinational firm based in India say its the little Irish web designers who do not tick the vital boxes / provide all the features as their websites do.

At a glance: poor SEO, ugly URLs, excessive graphics, tables based layout, improper and tacky use of Flash, graphics which should be text (and SEO keyword text at that) done in Flash, inconsistent and poorly designed templates, no accessibility for starters. Oh and frames too. However no one should deny that Irish designers make these mistakes too.

jimmmy wrote: »

A good few posters on this forum seem to be Irish website designers, or good friends of Irish website designers, who have a vested interest in putting down the work of their overseas competitors. I do not have a vested interest in web design, I am simply interested in getting a website made for the best value for money. I know someone here in Dublin who I could sit down beside would have obvious advantages, but if that person wants ten times the wages of what someone in India - who has the same or better qualifications - will work for, my budget dictates I may have to go for the cheaper quote. Quality wise, www.champion.ie ( who I have no connection with ) + the other indian designed websites reassures me that if its good enough for them...

We do have a vested interest. First, most of us are Irish, second the economic multiplier effect wrt spending money abroad. However, it's a double-edged sword as Irish based designers are more direct competitors, so the accusation of having vested interests doesn't apply that much in reality.

Read the other thread, there are plenty of good posts and advice in it. My main point is simple: such outsourcing carries a large risk of becoming a false economy once you factor in the extra time you have to invest and what that actually costs. Most just look at the price and don't do the costs properly hence the false economy. Value is possible and if you feel you can get better value abroad, go for it and happy hunting, but it's just not a black and white matter.

pwd

India has one of the highest rates of corruption in the world.
A high rate of corruption is considered to equate to a 20% tax. I assume that includes business from abroad.

That's before you even consider the practical problems and risks inherent with outsourcing to a different continent.

A bad website will negatively effect your image. Not worth the risk tbh.

MrMatisse

pwd wrote: »

India has one of the highest rates of corruption in the world.
A high rate of corruption is considered to equate to a 20% tax. I assume that includes business from abroad.

That's before you even consider the practical problems and risks inherent with outsourcing to a different continent.

A bad website will negatively effect your image. Not worth the risk tbh.

What has that got to do with website design?

EIREHotspur

MrMatisse wrote: »

What has that got to do with website design?

It has to do with credibility of getting web design done in India.

Web Design isn't like buying a lampshade.....if the lampshade doesn't work you bring it back and get a refund/replacement. simple.

Getting a website developed isn't simple.
You might want changes every week of the year.
How fast or willing will the designer be to react to your needs.

If you want a cheapo website why don't you read this thread......they are going with weebly.

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056144965&page=3

xp90

Its great site friend!!

jimmmy

xp90 wrote: »

Its great site friend!!

some are. eg
http://www.preciousmomentscaptured.com/index.php/product/browse/23

Its not often you see quality like that come from an Irish web designer. Maybe because the Indian multinational designs thousands of websites, and has the experience of having done hundreds in Ireland, that is the reason its better ? I wonder how much an Irish web designer would charge for a website like the one above...if they can do one like the one above for the same price then great. Any Irish web designer like to give a price indication of how much they would charge for a site similar to the above, assuming they can do the same quality as the above ?

MrMatisse

You would swear Irish web designers are the best in the world reading this thread. Im sure the OP has gotten dozens of PM's from one man band Irish operators since he/she posted.

If Indian designers or designers from the U.S/U.K are so bad, then it is amazing that so many Irish ones feel the need to come on here to criticise them.

Major Irish companies are now starting to outsouce, they are probably fed up dealing with Irish designers who consider themselves god's gift, charge an arm and a leg and then produce rubbish.

pwd

MrMatisse wrote: »

You would swear Irish web designers are the best in the world reading this thread. Im sure the OP has gotten dozens of PM's from one man band Irish operators since he/she posted.

If Indian designers or designers from the U.S/U.K are so bad, then it is amazing that so many Irish ones feel the need to come on here to criticise them.

Major Irish companies are now starting to outsouce, they are probably fed up dealing with Irish designers who consider themselves god's gift, charge an arm and a leg and then produce rubbish.

I'm not a Web designer.

India score the worst in the Bribe Payers Index.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bribe_Payers_Index

Here is a random forum thread about businessprocreatives:

http://whocallsme.com/Phone-Number.aspx/2081332514/2

They seem dodgy as hell imo.

Disregard Irish professionals' advice. They dont care about their reputations or credibility; they just want to unfairly slam random competitors. (This is sarcasm).

What have UK or US Web designers got to do with this discussion?

MrMatisse

pwd wrote: »

I'm not a Web designer.

Dont remember saying you were.

pwd

MrMatisse wrote: »

Dont remember saying you were.

You said that "so many" Irish Web designers felt the need to come on here to criticise them.

This is nonsensical, since Web designers should be the first people you should look for advice from about Web design. But anyway.

There only seems to be one Web designer criticising them, and his criticism seems valid.

OctavarIan

tricky D wrote: »

At a glance: poor SEO, ugly URLs, excessive graphics, tables based layout, improper and tacky use of Flash, graphics which should be text (and SEO keyword text at that) done in Flash, inconsistent and poorly designed templates, no accessibility for starters. Oh and frames too. However no one should deny that Irish designers make these mistakes too.

I'm quoting this for the benefit of the OP since he seems to have missed it.

You get what you pay for with web design. It doesn't matter if it's in Ireland, India, USA, wherever. Cheap web design is cheap for a reason; it's average at best.

That BusinessPro Solutions crowd; their own website is absolutely awful. That should be an indication of how much they value their business. They're bigging up the fact they give free quotes, but the text "Ask for a quote" on their page is SIDEWAYS. Speaking from a user interface perspective, their entire site is total rubbish. There's no thought given to the design or presentation of information. If they don't care about their own site why do you think they'll care about yours?

I'd strongly suggest you look around more, there's no shortage of web designers out there and with a smaller studio you're likely to get a better 1-to-1 service.

tricky D

jimmmy wrote: »

some are. eg
http://www.preciousmomentscaptured.com/index.php/product/browse/23

Its not often you see quality like that come from an Irish web designer. Maybe because the Indian multinational designs thousands of websites, and has the experience of having done hundreds in Ireland, that is the reason its better ? I wonder how much an Irish web designer would charge for a website like the one above...if they can do one like the one above for the same price then great. Any Irish web designer like to give a price indication of how much they would charge for a site similar to the above, assuming they can do the same quality as the above ?

MrMatisse wrote: »

You would swear Irish web designers are the best in the world reading this thread. Im sure the OP has gotten dozens of PM's from one man band Irish operators since he/she posted.

If Indian designers or designers from the U.S/U.K are so bad, then it is amazing that so many Irish ones feel the need to come on here to criticise them.

Major Irish companies are now starting to outsouce, they are probably fed up dealing with Irish designers who consider themselves god's gift, charge an arm and a leg and then produce rubbish.

A lot of strawman arguments, poor unfounded assumptions, cheap digs and borderline trolling being made in these two posts.

The pros and cons have been discussed well and pretty fairly in this and the other thread. It's certainly not a black and white choice. Good luck to anyone looking for a presence who comes across these threads, I hope you get good value wherever you choose to get your development done.

jimmmy

OctavarIan wrote: »

I'm quoting this for the benefit of the OP since he seems to have missed it.
You get what you pay for with web design. It doesn't matter if it's in Ireland, India, USA, wherever.

Surely some web designers in Dublin will justify charging 50 or 100 euro per hour if they can get it. Or how much do they charge ? People who are as well if not better qualified but who live in cheaper overhead countries, and who design an awful lot more websites for the Irish market ( there are seemingly hundreds of websites designed by this Indian multinational for business in Ireland alone ; see their portfolio on their website ) than the average Irish web design business, can presumably charge less for their time.

OctavarIan wrote: »

That BusinessPro Solutions crowd; their own website is absolutely awful.

Their own website is fine for the amount of information on it. I am more concerned with the websites they do for other businesses and which they charge money for e.g.

http://www.finaltouch.ie/

http://www.preciousmomentscaptured.com/index.php/product/browse

OctavarIan wrote: »

Cheap web design is cheap for a reason; it's average at best.

I am still waiting for some Irish web designers to come up with quotes for similar types of websites to the above, far eastern designed ones ; maybe the quality has blown them away and they cannot compete on price either ?
I would prefer buy Irish, but money is so tight that the best value for money will be considered. I have got references from people in Ireland who have used this Indian website firm + who are happy to recommend them. However if any Irish web designers want to be considered for the work, can they do work similar in quality to eg the 2 websites above, and if so how much would they charge for same ?

jimmmy

The quote got ( for an e-commerce site ) from an Irish website site designer was five times that of the Indian multi-national, and the e-commerce websites designed by the Irish business was not as good as the two samples designed in the far east
http://www.finaltouch.ie/
http://www.preciousmomentscaptured.c...product/browse

Any Irish website designed prepared to quote ? ( but most important they must show an example of their work )

serfboard

jimmmy wrote: »

Any Irish website designed prepared to quote ? ( but most important they must show an example of their work )

Why don't you go on tenderme.ie and ask for quotes? As part of the process say that those tendering will need to include samples of their work.

You say you got a quote from an Irish company - one. When you've got multiple quotes, then compare to the Indians.

If you do decide to go with the Indians I would be interested to hear how it works out for you. Maybe you'll post back here and let us know?

AndyJB

Hi All,
I met a UK client recently, they're in the retail technology area. The conversation of off-shore systems and web development came up in conversation. Their take on it was very interesting.

The primary issues that they continually encounter is one of communications and the difficulty of the off-shore contractor to understand the nuances of the english language thus not grasping what is actually required of them. More often than not what was being delivered for testing was not actually functioning as required. They invariably required numerous tweaks to correct.

They gave me examples where the contractor couldn't for some reason grasp the concept of post codes and how they relate to credit checking in the UK. This is a pretty basic requirement for any UK retailer that extends credit to consumers and has been in existence, even pre any live POS systems, for years.

The guys I met are very intune with ISO documentation standards so there was no lack of technical specifications available. They eventually halted the credit check project and kept what they have as the costs were mounting without any deliverables.

I think before going down the off-shore route you should exhaust the local venders first. Fortunately these days you don't need an IBM or Big 4 consultancy house to develop powerful systems or web applications.

I'd be very interested to know how you proceed, so please do keep us posted.

Best of luck.

team eGlobe

jimmmy wrote: »

Any Irish website designed prepared to quote ? ( but most important they must show an example of their work )

PM you with a quote less than the Business Pro Designs's price(what's on their website) and samples of work which are better than what you have mentioned. Please let me know what you think.Thanks

gavney1

Hi OP

I have used Business Pro Designs.

It was an abandoned project which cost me about 1000euro. The total cost was going to be about 1800euro, but I abandoned it half way through and didn't pay them the balance - they charge you for each step along the way.

Part of the reason for the abandonment was that I abandoned the idea as a whole, and part of the reason was that they weren't doing a particularly good job.

I've very little experience of web design. What they produced wasn't bad but it wasn't great either. I'll summarize my issues with them as follows.

1. The content management system they use isn't great. I've since learned that there's far better ones out there, like Joomla etc.. BPD's is easy to use but limited

2. They are VERY VERY VERY annoying. As soon as they'd completed a change they'd ring me 4/5 times a day looking for payment/ approval. I had to tell the guy to **** off a few times. One of the times he rang my while I was on a beach on holidays and I started screaming at him, as I'd already told him to stop calling me, and that I'd ring him when I was back when I'd review the changes - I didn't need him putting pressure on me.

3. It can be difficult to communicate with an Indian person. It's a different language obviously but also a different culture e.g. the way they constantly put me under pressure to give a response/ payment is very Indian.

Now, having said that, I still don't buy into the "you get what you pay for" idea 100%. Of course you're more likely to get a good job done if you pay more but I know there are Irish web designers out there who just get someone in India to do the job for them, and just pass on the message. And there's probably guys who've paid 10K and gotten a worse website than the one I got.

There's no easy answer -you really have to shop around, get recommendations etc..

The biggest lesson I learned from this is you should learn a little bit about web development yourself first. That way you can at least communicate better with a web developer, and understand what's involved. Learn what CMS is, what PHP is etc...
More importantly, think about what exactly you want your website to look like.

Overall, would I recommend them Business Pro Designs?

No.

If you shop around, do your research and haggle - you'll find an Irish web designer who can do a better job without charging 10K. You might have to pay about 4K (assuming it's a basic website), but it will be worth it to save yourself the headaches.

gavney1

op, ill also point out, that you could probably get a decent website done in India for less than what BPD charge if you shop around.

You're right about the overheads being much smaller there, and the price is naturally lower. But bear in mind, BPD aren't the only Indian web development company out there and I very much doubt their prices are the most competitive.

pwd

gavney1 wrote: »

3. It can be difficult to communicate with an Indian person. It's a different language obviously but also a different culture e.g. the way they constantly put me under pressure to give a response/ payment is very Indian.

A couple of people have referred to a language barrier. They speak English in India! Though the fact it seems like there is a language barrier is a good indicator that they are very awkward to deal with I think.

jimmmy

team eGlobe wrote: »

PM you with a quote less than the Business Pro Designs's price(what's on their website) and samples of work which are better than what you have mentioned. Please let me know what you think.Thanks

thanks for that. I'm overseas on some business at the moment so have not looked in to it in detail. With all due respect, and I like to buy Irish when I can, I do not think your "samples of work are better than what was mentioned" ( the 2 mentioned 7 or 8 posts ago ). I'll look in to it again in due course. If you are cheaper thats a great help, thanks, and increases the chances of the whole new website going ahead. At least I would presumably be dealing with someone who has an Irish ( or at least easy to understand ) accent rather than an Indian accent.

jimmmy

gavney1 wrote: »

op, ill also point out, that you could probably get a decent website done in India for less than what BPD charge if you shop around.

You're right about the overheads being much smaller there, and the price is naturally lower. But bear in mind, BPD aren't the only Indian web development company out there and I very much doubt their prices are the most competitive.

After only 5 minutes looking I have been offered an e-commerce website for first 950 euro, then700 euro. I am sure there are cheaper than that too, but the whole distance / accent / trust thing is a bit off putting. Though to be honest its not easy to trust an Irish guy who charges 5,000 and who gets most of his work sub-contracted out either.
Its difficult to know if the proposed online business will work / make money or not, so thats why I do not want to spend a fortune - even if I had it to spare, which I do not. I suspect most people still like to go in to a shop and touch / feel what they are buying, rather than buy online....unless perhaps the item is very light / cheap to post. Thanks to all for your replies anyway.

gavney1

jimmmy wrote: »

I suspect most people still like to go in to a shop and touch / feel what they are buying, rather than buy online....unless perhaps the item is very light / cheap to post. Thanks to all for your replies anyway.

depends what your product is. But actually, size doesn't seem to matter that much.

On the one hand, people don't like paying big postage charges for, say, a tin of roses cause the value is low.

But on the other hand, if buying a sofa, lots of people would rather pay to have it delivered anyway, whether buying online or in a shop

It's really down to the nature of the product - e.g. electronics,perfumes & books sell really well online for various reasons. And surprisingly, clothing is becoming popular, particularly among young men (as they couldn't be arsed shopping)

businessdit

this guy based in India seems to own it:
http://in.linkedin.com/in/avimannu

byrne0f56789

The bottom line is how many sales result from your site. It’s become more a marketing operation than a design operation. A good sales focused website will dramatically increase your return on investment from advertising. It reduces your cost per lead, and as a result your cost per sale.

It’s about putting what works for you offline on your website.

With regards to prices, Irish web designers are working out more or less the same as the Indian guys right now. Especially, when you cost in your time managing the project.

It’s up to the business owner to decide which way to go. I would say that you should consider your return on investment as well as the marketing ability of the web design firm.



Their speciality should match what you want to achieve.

fimat

I wouldn't touch "business pro designs" with a barge pole. For a start I've never had soo many junk phone calls from anyone else trying the hard sell (always a bad sign, esp from a company that is selling SEO solutions!.. hardly an example, what they do themselves!!).. Anyway I phoned one of the references they gave me, and it was a bad one (totally dissatisfied with their service). Not to mention all of the bad press they get on various websites: For example have a look at:

http://www.ripoffreport.com/web-hosting/businesspro-designs/businesspro-designs-bussiness-99f66.htm

Stick with a credible Irish web design company that you search on the net (rather than hear of, by them phoning you!), and you won't go far wrong.

goz83

Run. And don't stop running until you've forgotten why you're running in the first place.

galdon

Getting similar phone calls at least 3 times a day and no excuses seem to be getting rid of them - going to have to try threatening legal action I think! Take a look at this http://whocallsme.com/Phone-Number.aspx/2081332514/3

fimat

Hi Galdon; Yes I've been getting nuscisance phonecalls too in the last few days.. All from this Indian co. (business pro web designs). I would never recommend anyone to deal with them, as to cause such hassle, they have SCAM written all over them. I've already had 4 phonecalls from them today (all hanging up)

galdon

Yeah - we've been getting them for weeks now, but in the last couple of days it's just been ridiculous. I've also had 3/4 calls already this morning, all hang ups.

We've tried telling them to take our number off their lists, telling them we're not interested, getting pushy back with them - each time they change their story...they're ringing for the website, then for google searches, or for facebook...and don't even get me started on their names - John, Paddy, Damien! Some chance!!!

Not even a question as to whether or not I'd trust them, more a question of how to get rid of them for good. Definitely trying legal action next, seems to be the only thing left!

CamperMan

this is in their portfolio awesom . ie for some reason, when I put the URL in here properly, boards does this to it **********
$599


pile of dog poo!

HotStone

DO NOT USE BUSINESS PRO DESIGNS IN INDIA. THEY ARE CROOKS.

FIRST OFF, THEY DO NOT KNOW WEB BEST PRACTICES. ALL OF THEIR WORK IS WRONG. THERE IS NO ATTENTION TO DETAIL. THEY SAY THEY FIX ISSUES THAT YOU POINT OUT, BUT THEN THEY NEVER DO. THEY ARE A NIGHTMARE!

ALSO, THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO LAUNCH MY SITE ON NOV 18, 2011. IT IS STILL NOT LAUNCHED AS OF MARCH 27TH 2012. I EVEN PAID A RUSH FEE TO HAVE MY SITE LAUNCHED ON TIME WHICH THEY HAVE STILL NOT REPAID TO ME.

AVOID THEM AT ALL COSTS!

a_lduthie

Do not use business pro designs. These people work on cold selling, pushy and dishonest claims, do not deliver on services promised, and then lie again and again to keep money that is not rightfully theirs, in effect stealing from good hardworking people.
This is our business experience, and I am more than happy to share information, answer questions or debate on any of the issues I have outlined. The business website is Business Pro Designs, they also have an alias of Business pro creative.
They will tell you that their business is based in the UK. It is not, it is based in India. On the webpage you can click on a flag for your country which will give you a national number from which to contact them. This is a nice touch, but it always goes straight through to India. There is no one in your own country to speak with.
They all go under phony aliases for their real names which of course, does make it easier to remember English names etc. The man that managed our account, his Indian name is ‘Shayantan Majumder’ – his alias ‘Ron Spencer’. He was an ‘accounts manager’. Here are some other English and Indian names that their company uses. His manager was apparently ‘Chris Hart’ although he was never actually there for me to speak to although I requested numerous times. ‘Jason Smith’ ‘Babit’ and ‘Mr Avimannu’ . This company claims to operate in India, UK, Australia, New Zealand, USA, Ireland, Canada and South Africa. Here is their actual address - J1/14, Block EP, Sector V, Salt Lake Electronics Complex, Kolkata, West Bengal - 700 091 (India)
On the 11th November after continuous phone calls made to our business from Ron Spencer at Business Pro Designs I made a payment to this company for NZ$1047. This was for what they called the ‘Silver SEO package’ for three months of website optimisation. I recently had a new website done for our business in August 2011 and not having the time or knowledge to optimise myself I had been thinking about out sourcing for a while. They had wanted me to pay for 6 months of SEO but I was adamant that I would do a trial for 3 months. Of course payment had to be made upfront to them, not even that but on the same day I was speaking to them. The pressure from them was immense for payment. I did not pay them on the same day, maybe a couple of weeks later after doing plenty of research, read reviews (a lot of them bad, some good) but what clinched the deal is they gave me the contact for somebody in New Zealand they had recently done a website for. I checked out the website, rung the owner and he vouched that they were a good company that had delivered on what was promised. I paid on the 11th November using paypal for the amount of NZ$1047.
On the 28th November after a couple of weeks they sent me a pre SEO benchmark report, which consisted of random generic information compiled, mostly that had no relevance to my website and was complete and utter rubbish. It stated we live in Taupo where our business is actually in Te Anau, pretty major difference if you live in New Zealand and are trying to optimise for location. The keywords that they proposed to optimise for also had little or nothing to do with our business so I came up with a list of keywords, corrected our location and they ‘started’ the job.
From then on they proceeded to send me a SEO report at the end of each month for December, January and February. These reports consisted of supposed back links, social bookmarking links and blog comments all meant to raise the public profile of the site. After receiving the December SEO report on the 18th of January, I realised what a huge mistake I had made. All the links were either missing, completely irrelevant to us or inaccurate. I wrote back to ‘Shayantan Majumder’ (Ron Spencer) several times stating how unhappy I was with the service provided and didn’t hear back from him until the 21st February where he wrote his ‘sincere apologies’ and attached another useless SEO ‘traffic’ report for the month of January. He also wrote ‘for me to study the report and keep him posted with all the areas that needed improvement’.
I didn’t hear from him again until the 7th March when he sent me another ‘SEO report’ for the month of February. It was another pathetic attempt at SEO, I replied:
‘Hi Ron,
I have now had a chance to look through the February SEO report.
Backlinks
1 – You answered a question on a public forum that was asked over one year ago
2 – You placed this comment under a video of Taihape ‘Experience a breathtaking view that reaches far and wide to the horizon at Fiordland. Tread the paths of his people. And enjoy the company of us, his descendants, and the stories and food we will share with you.’ This comment has got little or nothing to do with our business, and it is extremely embarrassing to us.
3 – The blog comment that you placed was in response to a blog entry made in 2008. Your english is appalling, and I would definitely not want to visit our website after reading that.
4 – The comment on blog four doesnt make any sense and has bad grammar but it is a bit better than number 3.
5 – This website was blocked by my computer security.
6 and 7 are completely identical in terms of content, and absolutely no use as a link to generate traffic to our site
10 – there is no link there
make my toursonline.com has been repeated twice.
16 – there is no link
Any other links I havn’t mentioned are mostly either not relevant to us and have multiple and repetitive links that almost mirror each other from one site to the next.
The 6th social bookmarking link is invalid.
Blog comment 1 is not there
Comment 2 has got no link or relevance to our website and grammar and spelling are incorrect
Comment 3 is not there
Comment 4 is not there
Comment 5 is not there
Comment 6 is not there
Comment 7 is not there
Comment 8 is not there
Comment 9 is not there
comment 10 not valid
comment 11 not valid
comment 12 not there
comment 13 complete rubbish!
comment 14 no blog entry
comment 15 not there
If you would like me to I will go through all of your other SEO reports and point out why I am unhappy with these also. They are all either missing links, irrelevant or badly written.
On your websites page that talks about web packages that you offer you claim that you make ‘directory submission to relevant sites’ and ‘submit articles to relevant sites’. When I was sold the package at the beginning I was also assured that you could understand our business so as to optimize our website. There is nothing in the SEO reports that would indicate to me that any of the work that has been done is relevant to our business and our region.
There has been no change at all to our Google analytics.
You obviously have no idea of the ins and outs of our business, what we do, what we offer. This is made clear by your completely irrelevant comments on completely irrelevant websites. You cant offer SEO to a small New Zealand business, when your English grammar and spelling is ALWAYS incorrect, you seem to have little or no understanding of the area we live in and you have not done your research as to what my business offers. What you have done is verging on being very dishonest, most of the links you have given me in my report are inaccurate and if I hadn’t checked these I would never know that. Your company might be able to build a website for me based on information I gave you (although I very much doubt any of the grammar or spelling would be correct) and you may be able to Search engine optimise for an Indian website, but you are clearly incapable of doing any optimisation for my business.
Your attempt at SEO for my business has not improved my search rankings whatsoever, moreover the links that you have placed are damaging to our business and make us look like junk.
I would like a full refund immediately. I dont want you to access my website with the FTP details I gave you back in December, and I dont want you to make any changes. If a refund is made to us immediately I will leave these issues, move on and try to undo the damage that you have done with your attempts at SEO on our website.'
What followed was emails back and forth until I finally received a phone call from him where he assured me, he would either sort it out or I would receive a full refund. This is an email I received from Shayantan Majumder on the 20th March
‘Hope this email finds you well.
Am looking forward to get on a call with you tomorrow. If we cannot resolve this then we ‘ll be more than happy to have you a full refund of the monies paid to Business pro Designs that has been charged to you to carry out the SEO work.
Therefore, kindly let me know a good time to reach out to you. Look forward to hearing back from you soon.
P.S. – I am normally available from 2.00 PM onwards NZ time.
Many Thanks
Ron Spencer’
The phone call consisted of him putting me through to another ‘technician’ who said that said there would be a new ‘technician’ handling my account from now on that had a better understanding of English. I straight away refused the offer, said I wasn’t interested and asked for a refund. He tried to argue for a little while before transferring back to Ron Spencer who said that if I would send through my paypal details they would transfer a refund immediately. He also said he would be in contact with me later that week to make sure it was processed. That was on the 21st March.
I was of course very sceptical by this stage, so within a week I had contacted Paypal to open a dispute. Paypal wouldn’t even open a dispute as they will not start disputes regarding services and it had been over 3 months since the payment was made. Needless to say, I will not use Paypal again in the future.
Over the next couple of months I wrote several emails, and made very many phone calls. The time and money I have wasted on this company would be upwards of $4000 and as a small business completely unfeasible. A week after promising the refund I received an email from Shayantan Majumder (Ron Spencer) claiming a death in his family and that he would be away for several weeks. There is nothing so low as to lie about a family member dying to get out of paying somebody back money. There were more excuses following: the accounts team was processing it (although Ron Spencer is apparently an accounts manager), paypal were not allowing india to make payments, and they didn’t have my paypal details, and asking for bank account details. The worst excuse came after a phone call where Ron Spencer (Shayantan Majumder) told my husband that paypal had already taken the money out of their account as a result of the dispute I had opened. I had told them already that I was going to start a dispute with Paypal, they obviously remembered this and tried to pass the responsibility on to Paypal. Of course there was no way this could have been true, there was no dispute with paypal, paypal have no right to access money from accounts, and I would have been notified immediately. We spent over half an hour on the phone asking for confirmation sent to us for this and he kept saying he could not do this, until he finally said he would ask the accounts team to ‘process it’. When I told him in an email that there was no dispute with paypal, he responded humbly asking for my paypal details once again.
Here is an email received on the 29th March ‘Our accounts team has initiated the refund – I will follow up with them and let you know the time frame it would take to reflect on your account.’
As predicted of course, never received any sort of refund and on the 4th May sent one final email before deciding to stop wasting my time and instead use my time to let others know of our experience. Businesses like this should not be allowed to continue in the world of technology and word of mouth that we live in. This company is not a scam company, they do actually offer and in ‘some’ cases follow through on website design and pathetically poor attempts at Search Engine Optimisation. This is what I find the most offensive throughout this whole sickening, time wasting process. They are always polite, always courteous, they are a valid company but will do ANYTHING to take your money and keep it. They will lie to you, all the while being very polite but quietly manipulative. Please learn from my mistakes and do no use this company for ANYTHING. They will not deliver on the services promised.

HotStone

Sorry about your bad Business Pro Designs experience.

It sounds very similar to mine. "Ron Spencer" is a clown as are all "account managers" at BPD. I did get a small refund after threatening to report them to the credit card companies as frauds. Which I have since done. If I hear "My sincere apology" one more time Im going to get sick. That's all they say while they ask you for more upfront payments. They even started to bill my credit card without my authorization. I am currently disputing those charges with my bank. If I could, I would have gotten on a plane and showed up at their front door with a baseball bat. But they wouldnt even tell me their business address.

They need to go out of business. Hopefully more people will read this forum and avoid them at all costs.

prospect

I used elance to hire a foreign company to build my site.

Saved a fortune, but regretted it thereafter.

Try and hire an Irish (or local to wherever you are) company. Face to face meetings about design are really the only way to go.

uck51js9zml2yt

there is a thread in the tech forum for anybody looking to get web sites developed.
as said earlier,the initial savings getting it done abroad can result in more money being spent on getting the site fixed.

Inishman

Just had a phone call today from this company looking for €140.00 renewal fee for hosting and domain re my website. I am not sure if I can change to another company re same for a less amount.

Peterdalkey

Inishman wrote: »

Just had a phone call today from this company looking for €140.00 renewal fee for hosting and domain re my website. I am not sure if I can change to another company re same for a less amount.

Get on to www.blacknight.com an Irish company, very active and helpful on boards.ie and I am sure they will sort it safely and honestly for you.

Cheers

Peter

fimat

I agree with Peter, Blacknight provide an excellent service. Before you contact businesspro to let them know, I'd recommend that you backup your site first, as if they pull the plug on it, then it will be gone (as it's hosted by them). You can then upload the site via Blacknights hosting once you've made the switch.

Inishman

Cheers Peter and Fimat for your reply's.

Till Rolls

Hi there

I have first hand experience with this company. Yes they say there UK company but we all know its India based. Any way, take my advice stay away from them, It got to stage were they were saying work way done but I knew it wasn’t, most people wouldn’t know what they say is right or wrong you just believe them. All sorry but I said I want the money I paid them back. This was impossible for them to do , Until I said that I was going to email all there clients, I got there contact details from BPD website to tell them that to check that work promised had been do as I caught them out. 2 Mins later the money was back in my account. Long and short of it , STAY AWAY

Axwell

Stop digging up the zombie thread....