Ivor Callely wins High Court case!

gandalf

So Ivor has won his case. Is there any justice in this country at all especially if the person is linked to FF.

It looks like the so called political elite can get away with near murder in this state at the moment. While the rest of us would be put away if we didn't pay our TV license.

Callely wins suspension challenge

Senator Ivor Callely has won his High Court action aimed at overturning a Seanad committee’s finding that he misrepresented his normal place of residence to claim expenses.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0114/breaking27.html

Seth Brundle

:eek:
This country is doomed!

maynooth_rules

We are a wonderful little nation. Makes me more delighted I am moving to London next week

ilovesleep

God damn it

JonathanAnon

I just wish for once that the courts would do what is morally correct instead of cowardly judges hiding behind legislation. At least he will be gone after the next election.. He's not gonna get elected to the Dáil and nobody will nominate/elect him to the Seanad.

Fitzerb

gandalf wrote: »

So Ivor has won his case. Is there any justice in this country at all especially if the person is linked to FF.

It looks like the so called political elite can get away with near murder in this state at the moment. While the rest of us would be put away if we didn't pay our TV license.

I think if you read through the report it would seem that the Judge or Judges ruled for him on how the committee managed the hearing.

Which goes to prove the point that despite the painfully slow progress the Garda are making on the Anglo investigation that they are right to take their time if they get successful outcome

Seth Brundle

JonathanAnon wrote: »

I just wish for once that the courts would do what is morally correct instead of cowardly judges hiding behind legislation. At least he will be gone after the next election.. He's not gonna get elected to the Dáil and nobody will nominate/elect him to the Seanad.

Don't forget that he was gone after the last election!
I grew up as one of his constituients. I absolutely loathe him.

Manach

On balance the judges of this country are even-handed and politically neutral especially compared to the US model. If justice was politically biased, then the Donegal election review would have been quashed. Offhand the judgement does not seem to be on courts.ie yet.

blah

maynooth_rules wrote: »

We are a wonderful little nation. Makes me more delighted I am moving to London next week

Come on over! I've been here 4 years and I'm proud to read stories like this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12174117

Eric Illsley is to quit as an MP after pleading guilty on Tuesday to dishonestly claiming parliamentary expenses.

The MP for Barnsley Central had come under pressure to step down after admitting £14,000 of expenses fraud.

...

That's €16,592 of fraudulent expenses and he could get a jail sentence.

Callely claimed expenses totalling €81,015 and was suspended for 20 days.

com1

JonathanAnon wrote: »

I just wish for once that the courts would do what is morally correct instead of cowardly judges hiding behind legislation. At least he will be gone after the next election.. He's not gonna get elected to the Dáil and nobody will nominate/elect him to the Seanad.

Eh, is that not what they are supposed to do?

JonathanAnon

com1 wrote: »

Eh, is that not what they are supposed to do?

It would be nice if just once that the moral justice and legal justice were aligned though wouldnt it.. I heard on the radio there in the judges statement that "Mr Callely was denied of his good name", so no doubt there will be a compensation claim as well...

Don't forget that he was gone after the last election! I grew up as one of his constituients. I absolutely loathe him.

From what I'm aware he was Taoiseach's pick (i.e. Bertie's pick) for the Seanad the last time.. He should be gone for good after the next election.. I dont see any way of him getting back in, but I am open to correction..

Atlantic Dawn

For the sake of politics in this country I hope he gets 5 million in compensation to enrage the electorat.

james.xix

It continued: 'Senator Callely, his wife an family have suffered greatly from having been placed in the glare of mediate publicity with attendant adverse, unfair and defamatory comments from some sections of the media.'
At last October's hearing, lawyers for Mr Callely said using his Cork address to claim expenses complied with a Department of Finance definition of a normal place of residence. That definition did not require it to be a principal home.
His lawyers said the key question then was how the committee had found that he had misrepresented it.
They claimed that the decision and a 20-day suspension from the house in July were devastating, portraying the Senator as a dishonest politician that had ripped off the State.
Lawyers for the committee said the decision was based on political ethics and the propriety of Senator Callely's behaviour.
They also argued that the court had no jurisdiction to interfere in decisions of the Oireachtas.

I find all of the above interesting.

His family say they have suffered but Callely is still dishonest. By definition he might be allowed to have the Cork address to claim expenses but when he lives in Dublin and commutes far more often than not from there, it is wrong to claim travel expenses from as far as Cork.

The Senator's own act in claiming expenses from Cork portray him as dishonest and ripping off the state. The suspension of him by the Seanad was not needed for that.

56lcd

Can the EU please take us over completely and rid us of the fianna fail appointed judicary

Barname

I am ill.

ilovesleep

I want the uk to come and take us back. i really do. feck independant ireland

ilovesleep

Or would iceland be interested in taking ireland. they have a good government.

godtabh

Barname wrote: »

I am ill.

Dont think you are the only one!

dfbemt

james.xix wrote: »

It continued: 'Senator Callely, his wife and family have suffered greatly from having been placed in the glare of mediate publicity with attendant adverse, unfair and defamatory comments from some sections of the media.'

Cue a claim against the state, the Seanad and whoever else can be fingered by this leech. A big fat pay out of at least €250,000 is on the way and a two fingered salute to the rest of us.

However all is not over. 'Let them eat cake' was ringing in Marie Antoinettes ears as her head rolled along the floor.............. !!

Scumbag Callely will have his, sometime, somewhere, someday.

ISAW

gandalf wrote: »

So Ivor has won his case. Is there any justice in this country at all especially if the person is linked to FF.

Your mask is slipping there!
Courts decide based on law and not on "is that fella in Fianna Fáil/gay/black or whatever other prejudice you may have.

It looks like the so called political elite can get away with near murder in this state at the moment. While the rest of us would be put away if we didn't pay our TV license.

If the court decided Callely was wrong you would agree with them but when they don't follow your clearly biased opinion you claim they are also corrupt and/or ineffectual or the law is wrong. so how then can you complain when someone else like RIRA says the same as you do?

ISAW

kbannon wrote: »

Don't forget that he was gone after the last election!
I grew up as one of his constituients. I absolutely loathe him.

So you would vote for Haughey instead?

timbel

reminds me of a courtroom scene in a recent mediocre film.

ISAW

ilovesleep wrote: »

Or would iceland be interested in taking ireland. they have a good government.

so you think we should do as they did and close down all banks and restore our credit rating? Of course the side effect would be all bank deposits would be frozen and all savings or accounts in banks however small. they the state would have to go about setting up a banking system. You see the Iceland example is somewhat different to ours.

ISAW

dfbemt wrote: »

Cue a claim against the state, the Seanad and whoever else can be fingered by this leech. A big fat pay out of at least €250,000 is on the way and a two fingered salute to the rest of us.

Maybe more against the media.

However all is not over. 'Let them eat cake' was ringing in Marie Antoinettes ears as her head rolled along the floor.............. !!

Scumbag Callely will have his, sometime, somewhere, someday.

[/quote]

Idle threats are unbecoming and pointless. as is ad hominem.

ISAW

ISAW wrote: »

so you think we should do as they did and close down all banks and restore our credit rating? Of course the side effect would be all bank deposits would be frozen and all savings or accounts in banks however small. they the state would have to go about setting up a banking system. You see the Iceland example is somewhat different to ours.

rubbish scaremongering

FF are vermin and so are their supporters :pac:
they will be stomped out at the next election

spider guardian

this doesn't vindicate callely, it only asserts that the seanad inquiry overstepped their bounds. it should have been the gardai investigating him, not the seanad.

Seth Brundle

ISAW wrote: »

So you would vote for Haughey instead?

As I don't live there anymore, its not a relevant question but I'm not sure what your point was anyhow.

Seth Brundle

spider guardian wrote: »

this doesn't vindicate callely, it only asserts that the seanad inquiry overstepped their bounds. it should have been the gardai investigating him, not the seanad.

+1
IIRC people were suggesting at the time that the outcome of a senate committee inquiry would more than likely end up going sour.
There was no reason why the gardai couldn't have dome the investigation rather than the senators "investigating" one of their own.

jmayo

blah wrote: »

Come on over! I've been here 4 years and I'm proud to read stories like this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12174117



That's €16,592 of fraudulent expenses and he could get a jail sentence.

Callely claimed expenses totalling €81,015 and was suspended for 20 days.

AFAIK callely claimed phone expenses using dodgy invoices, which if I did it would be fraud.
He also misrepresented his primary residence which again would be investigated by revenue if I did it.

So are revenue and Gardaí investigating this man and these matters ?
If not why not ?

Colm R

kbannon wrote: »

I grew up as one of his constituients. I absolutely loathe him.

Thinking of heading down to Baltimore or out to Cape Clear for a weekend soon. Any recomendations

Seth Brundle

jmayo wrote: »

AFAIK *allegedly* callely claimed phone expenses using dodgy invoices, which if I did it would be fraud.
He also *allegedly* misrepresented his primary residence which again would be investigated by revenue if I did it.

So are revenue and Gardaí investigating this man and these matters ?
If not why not ?

FYP!

Seth Brundle

Actually, just wondering, now that he has been deemed unfairly treated by his colleagues and I doub't that we will see anything more come from this, will he be allowed back into FF?

AlekSmart

ISAW wrote: »

Your mask is slipping there!
Courts decide based on law and not on "is that fella in Fianna Fáil/gay/black or whatever other prejudice you may have.


If the court decided Callely was wrong you would agree with them but when they don't follow your clearly biased opinion you claim they are also corrupt and/or ineffectual or the law is wrong. so how then can you complain when someone else like RIRA says the same as you do?

ISAW is essentially correct and proper here.

The only issue is that Mr Callelly got to the Courts first.

As can be seen from events over on John Bull`s larger island their "Authorities" actually managed to interact with Legislation at a much earlier point in proceedings.

As the current ongoing Irish Banking fiasco illustrates,our Authorities are magnificently uncertain as to what legislation they actually exist under,never mind what uses they can make of it.

What this judgement appears to illustrate is that Irish Parliamentary procedures and those responsible for their implimentation are remarkably devoid of any similar understanding of what they are doing on a daily basis.

This lack of comprehension,of itself,now raises serious issues over far more than expenses claims,as if taken to it`s conclusion it follows that other elements of our Parliamentary Procedures may now be open to question.

How much recent leglislation has been "rushed-through" in the Public Interest after commercial sensitivities were cited to impose a veil of secrecy on their deliberation process.

The Imperialists experiences are detailed here....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12174117

By far and away the most confidence inspiring element of that BBC report is this......

Former Labour MP David Chaytor is serving an 18-month jail term after pleading guilty to dishonestly claiming expenses.

The day we read a similar account relating to a TD or member of the Professional Elite in an Irish Media report is the day we can finally assert that our Independence has been successfully achieved ! :rolleyes:

sparkling sea

Whats really annoying about this case is that Ivor Callely was always going to win because the Committee were acting outside of their powers and they knew it.

This fact was pointed out by several commentators on the radio, television and also in the press.

Any first year admin law student would have known this so how could the inquiry happen in the first place. Why was money wasted yet again with this inquiry - well its probably because our government are useless and are quite happy to throw away our money on illegal inquires, with senators working outside their powers and getting paid to do so - it really really makes me want to scream.

We need people who actually know what they are doing to run this country on our behalf - people who can take sound and factual advise.

Callely might have been in the wrong but the Committee members are also Seanad members and they shouldn't and can't be a self regulatory body on matters like this one.

Its almost like they went ahead with the inquiry knowing that it was outside their remit so that Callely would get off the expenses claim and they could all live happily ever after with the public paying yet again for their scheming. :mad:

dfbemt

And therein lies the problem.

Former Labour MP David Chaytor is serving an 18-month jail term after pleading guilty to dishonestly claiming expenses.

Callely, nor any other irish politician for that matter, would ever say that they did wrong. It has to be proven first even though they themselves know that they did wrong.

Again, it is 2 fingers to us because they know that they can get away with it.

Ad hominem, he is still a scumbag, ad infinitum

Liam Byrne

Straight question to FF supporters.

Do you believe that what Callely did was wrong ?

Not "illegal", not "what others do too", not any other caveat.

Do you believe that it was wrong, ethically and morally ? Do you view it as acceptable or unacceptable ?

We have seen loads of defences that Ahern, Callelly, O'Dea, O'Donoghue haven't been found guilty of anything, but that is essentially irrelevant if what they did was wrong.

So which is it ?

Is what Callelly did (a) right or (b) wrong ?

And if it's wrong, since it applies to so many other FF politicians, why do you still support and defend them ?

NoodlesGirl

spider guardian wrote: »

this doesn't vindicate callely, it only asserts that the seanad inquiry overstepped their bounds. it should have been the gardai investigating him, not the seanad.

Couldn't agree more. I know the man and he's as much of a cretin as you would imagine he is.

He's still staying down in Cork. I bet he's still claiming expenses

What we need is an overhaul of expenses. The entire system is ridiculous. EVERY expense should be receipted. Travel to and from work should not be included (i.e. his trips to the Seanad). Limits should be placed on meals and NO DRINKS. This is how the rest of us in private sector operate - why should it be any different for the Public Sector?

AND FOR GOD’S SAKE – CLOSE THE SEANAD

Seth Brundle

Liam Byrne wrote: »

So which is it ?

Is what Callelly did (a) right or (b) wrong ?

Erm, that would be an ecumenical matter?

phantom_lord

JonathanAnon wrote: »

I just wish for once that the courts would do what is morally correct instead of cowardly judges hiding behind legislation.

*facepalm*

macman2010

IVOR FOR PRESIDENT!

its a two horse race between him and bertie the boll1x.

tails_naf

spider guardian wrote: »

this doesn't vindicate callely, it only asserts that the seanad inquiry overstepped their bounds. it should have been the gardai investigating him, not the seanad.

So does this mean that course of action is still open? i.e. can the Gardai open an investigation into his expenses (if they have not already?). It would be fantastic if the courts overturned the suspension, for him to walk into a prosecution with much more substantial penalties ..

/dream

phantom_lord

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Straight question to FF supporters.

He resigned before he was expelled didn't he? Ogra FF called for him to be expelled from the party too. I'd be surprised if FF supporters didn't think what he did was wrong.


Not sure why people would suspect this of being some FF conspiracy, it would be far better for FF for him to have lost the case.

jmayo

kbannon wrote: »

Originally Posted by jmayo View Post
AFAIK *allegedly* callely claimed phone expenses using dodgy invoices, which if I did it would be fraud.
He also *allegedly* misrepresented his primary residence which again would be investigated by revenue if I did it.

So are revenue and Gardaí investigating this man and these matters ?
If not why not ?

FYP!

Ehh if the Daily mail are claiming it, not alleging it, and i don't recall callely issuing defamtion proceedings against them, then I think we can safely say it is true.

Ivor Callely used forged documents to claim almost €3,000 in Dáil expenses, the Irish Mail on Sunday can reveal.

A two-month investigation into the Fianna Fáil senator’s expenses claims show he was paid the cash on foot of invoices indicating he had bought four mobile phones in five years from a north Dublin firm. But the MoS has established that the company, Business Communications Ltd, went bust over a decade before Callely’s claim.

A former director told the MoS the invoices had not been generated by his company – and that Business Communications Ltd had never sold a mobile phone to Ivor Callely.

While Callely this weekend refused to comment on the damning revelations, they seem certain to spell the final chapter of his ignominious political career.

...
A Business Communications LTD. invoice, the firm went bust in 1994 - eight years before Callely says he bought a mobile phone from them

The first was dated January 2002 and was a €528 bill for a ‘Nokia PC 68/28 mobile phone installation and car kit’. The next was dated July 7, 2003, for €451.57 ‘for purchase of Nokia Mobile phone suite’ and ‘full installation of car kit’.

The third receipt was dated January 12, 2005: it records a payment of €476.50 for ‘purchase of Nokia mobile phone suite’. It added: ‘Car kit installed.’ The final document was dated July 7, 2006, and recorded a sum of €451.57 ‘received for purchase of Nokia Mobile Phone (Ref 07/35)’ as well as ‘full installation of car kit’.

All of the claim forms submitted with the receipts to the Oireachtas included a standard insurance maintenance and miscellaneous expenses claim of €250.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1299333/Ivor-Callely-claimed-expenses-forged-invoices--Taxpayer-defrauded-phone-scam.html

Liam Byrne

phantom_lord wrote: »

He resigned before he was expelled didn't he? Ogra FF called for him to be expelled from the party too. I'd be surprised if FF supporters didn't think what he did was wrong.

Right, so therefore can we finally - for once and for all - acknowledge that the usual FF response of "what have they been convicted of ?" doesn't cover whether they are dodgy or acceptable or did right or wrong ?

phantom_lord

Not really sure what you're talking about or why you're asking me?

Did FF supporters defend him? I thought he was fairly universally condemned?

amacachi

AlekSmart wrote: »

ISAW is essentially correct and proper here.

The only issue is that Mr Callelly got to the Courts first.

As can be seen from events over on John Bull`s larger island their "Authorities" actually managed to interact with Legislation at a much earlier point in proceedings.

As the current ongoing Irish Banking fiasco illustrates,our Authorities are magnificently uncertain as to what legislation they actually exist under,never mind what uses they can make of it.

What this judgement appears to illustrate is that Irish Parliamentary procedures and those responsible for their implimentation are remarkably devoid of any similar understanding of what they are doing on a daily basis.

This lack of comprehension,of itself,now raises serious issues over far more than expenses claims,as if taken to it`s conclusion it follows that other elements of our Parliamentary Procedures may now be open to question.

How much recent leglislation has been "rushed-through" in the Public Interest after commercial sensitivities were cited to impose a veil of secrecy on their deliberation process.

The Imperialists experiences are detailed here....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12174117

By far and away the most confidence inspiring element of that BBC report is this......

Yeah but that's all being tackled by pouring thousands of work hours into things like the blasphemy law and the ban on the chemicals sold by headshops.

56lcd

It is no wonder why Ireland can't borrow money when you see our top Judges justify that an unelected fianna fail cronie scam 10's of thousands of Euros in false expenses.
we are the laughing stock of the world.

Drumpot

I feel sick and ashamed . . Dont know why it should be surprising, but it is. Not only has he managed to claim expenses that he should never of gotten, not only has nothing been done to try and rid us of these kind of theives from politics, but this guy is going to cost the state thousands in legal fees and whatever damages he will get. .


Things like this make me feel "ENTITLED" to tell the taxman to fuk off if he thinks Im subsidising these criminals. ..

phantom_lord

56lcd wrote: »

It is no wonder why Ireland can't borrow money when you see our top Judges justify that an unelected fianna fail cronie scam 10's of thousands of Euros in false expenses.
we are the laughing stock of the world.

Maybe we'd command more respect if people actually bothered to understand issues instead of resorting to sensationalist conclusions.

NoodlesGirl

I understand why the judge ruled in favour of Callely but the reward should be €1 and he should be forced to pay his own legal fees.

ilovesleep

56lcd wrote: »

It is no wonder why Ireland can't borrow money when you see our top Judges justify that an unelected fianna fail cronie scam 10's of thousands of Euros in false expenses.
we are the laughing stock of the world.

Agreed

whatever our government has done is bad. what we are doing is even worse with no protests. we had one pitiful protest in november and thats it while our country is being torn up and apart. Absolutely sickening. Dont want to be part of this country anymore with politicians raping us and everyone lying down taking it. Not even a protest to cry in disapproval.