UPC price increases - Comreg's complete capitulation and abdication of responsibility

dub45

As we know UPC increased their charges effective from 4th January last.

This increase breached UPC's own Terms and Conditions:

16. Changing the Terms and Conditions
We retain the right to amend, modify or substitute these Terms and Conditions at any
time and we will notify you in writing 30 days in advance of doing so. Any such modification, amendment or substitution shall also be posted on our website at www.upc.ie. You have the right to withdraw from this Agreement without penalty if you do not accept the modification,
amendment or substitution. If you do not object to the modification, amendment or substitution by giving notice to us within 30 days, the new
Terms and Conditions shall then become applicable to you.

17. Notices
Unless otherwise detailed in this Agreement, notices given under this Agreement should
be delivered by hand or by prepaid first class post or electronic mail either:-
(i) to us: at the address on this Agreement or on the last invoice or to an alternative
address notified to you;
(ii) to you: at the address in this Agreement or to an alternative address notified to us.
Alternatively, if you take the Television Service or Internet Services we may deliver
notices to you by sending them via the Network so that they are displayed on your
television or computer screen.

Customers were not informed of this increase in accordance with the above terms. According to the press UPC have over 760,000 customers

A notice appeared in the Irish Independent. The II apparently has a circulation of 150,000 readers. There is no provision in the Terms above for the use of a newspaper.

A notice was also posted in the bottom right hand corner of the UPC website.

The following appears on the Comreg website:

http://askcomreg.ie/tell_us/phone_and_broadband_contracts.247.LE.asp

Changes to a contract
Your service provider may wish to change the terms and conditions of its service, including changes to the prices it charges. By law it may do so but it must notify you of the change at the same time at least one month in advance. The service provider must advise you that you have the right to end the contract without penalty if you do not accept the change to the contract.

So in view of the above it would seem that UPC broke the law in implementing the price increases on 4th January. This would suggest that all invoices and bills issued in respect of charges from 4th January are invalid other than those who negotiated deals for themselves in advance of 4th January. Bear in mind that if every customer's bill increased by only €1 in January UPC would generate €750,000 in that montly alone from an increase that is in breach of their won terms and conditions and according to the Comreg website against the law.

Comreg according to a post on here have said that they have not got enough complaints yet to act!!!!

So lets put some sort of scale on this. The last census of Ireland according to the CSO website showed that Ireland in April 2006 had a population of 4,239,848. So lets take that as a base. If UPC have 750,000 customers affected by this "irregular" increase (allow that 10,000 or so got a deal) then their action in increasing their prices affected 17% of the entire population.
However lets have a look at households which are the real customers as it is unlikely that there will be too many households with more than one contract with UPC. According to the 2006 census there were 1,469.500 households in Ireland. So it would seem that up to 50% of households in Ireland were affected by UPC's "irregular" increase.

Comreg according to a post on here have said that they have not got enough complaints yet to act!!!!

So we have "irregular" behaviour by a company which is regulated by Comreg which could affect up to 17% of the entire population of the country or up to 50% of the households in the country and Comreg need complaints to act!!!

Now if a financial institution was found to have behaved in a manner which affected people to the same extent wouldn't there be an expectation that the financial regulator would be acting quickly and firmly?

(It is also a reasonable supposition that the newspapers would be screaming for heads to roll! However perhaps a well placed ad can help there?)

At the very least Comreg should be instructing UPC to withdraw their price increase with immediate effect and that customers should be refunded or credited with amounts already paid over and above the old prices. No price increase should be implemented until customers have been properly informed and the appropriate notice given.

Even the most ardent fan of UPC's products should be concerned about this situation. If UPC get away with their current behaviour then there is no reason why they should honour their own Terms and Conditons or obey the law in the future and why should any other major company either?

There are other issues which Comreg should be routinely querying UPC over:

• The continued and disgraceful lying over "unlimited" products. (It is also a farce that Comreg repeats these lies on their callcosts site!)
  
• The tendency of the staff to lie to customers
  
• Their apparent exploitation of the dd system to generate a stream of income
  
• Their outrageous claims about An Post confirming the delivery of ordinary letters to individuals.

But for the moment the "irregular" increase in prices should be the priority.
The regulator's passivity so far is a disgrace.

We are entitled to expect far far more from a regulator in the face of an action that demonstrably is in breach of Terms and Condtions and apparently the law and affects a considerable percentage of households in the state than the claim that they have no had sufficient complaints to act!

For anyone who wants to complain:

Comreg phone - 1890 229668

http://www.askcomreg.ie/about_us/contact_us.26.LE.asp

Dr Pepper

Thanks dub45 for that useful information.

Readers might also be interested in this Irish Times article on the matter.

I've contacted UPC to complain about this and to downgrade from the 20Mb to 10Mb package in protest. According to the above article, I can do this without having to pay the normal downgrade fee of €10:

... In relation to the last point made regarding downgrade fees/cancellations charges – this is not correct. Anyone outside the minimum contract period is not liable for cancellation charges, this only applies to customers within the first 12 months. For customers within the minimum contract period (12 months) they have the right to cancel or downgrade their service within a 30 day notice period without penalty if they do not agree with a price change....

Not sure if that's true or where the author got that information but I'll let you know what UPC come back to me with.

Regarding contacting comreg to complain, I'm not sure if I could be bothered to be honest (sorry!). Call me pessimistic but I don't expect much effective action from that corner.

billbond4

I just saw this on My UPC messages on the upc account webpage today,(see attachment)
im just wondering why did they leave it until my Bill date to make it more obvious ?

Vanbis

Dr Pepper wrote: »

Thanks dub45 for that useful information.

Readers might also be interested in this Irish Times article on the matter.

I've contacted UPC to complain about this and to downgrade from the 20Mb to 10Mb package in protest. According to the above article, I can do this without having to pay the normal downgrade fee of €10:

Dr Pepper, do you mind me asking how much the 10Mb packge is costing you? I got a text to say my speed was upgraded tp 20Mb but only getting 14Mb but i'm not bothered about that.

They have a pipe connected to my house that has another 20 houses running of it. I'm tempted to pull it down.

Myrddin

I really can't take any more of this paddy the plasterer 'ah sure it'll be grand' attitude of people (myself included). Email sent! And for those who need a template, feel free to use mine;

To whom it may concern,

As you are undoubtedly already aware, UPC are implementing price increases from January of this year (2011). Under Irish law, such an increase is to be made aware to all existing customers at least thirty days in advance of the planned introduction. This has not happened. The price increases have been introduced, without informing the paying customers (of which I am also). Not only is this negligent, but it is also illegal according to Irish law as seen here -

"Changes to a contract
Your service provider may wish to change the terms and conditions of its service, including changes to the prices it charges. By law it may do so but it must notify you of the change at the same time at least one month in advance. The service provider must advise you that you have the right to end the contract without penalty if you do not accept the change to the contract."

As the regulator of telecommunications in Ireland, I feel it is your responsibility to investigate this matter & take appropriate action. This law is not open to interpretation, it is quite clear cut, & as an Irish citizen I feel we (the public) are owed an explanation for this flagrance by UPC. I feel we are also owed an explanation as to why ComReg have not yet taken any action on this illegal act.

I eagerly await your comments, and thank you for taking the time to read this email on how UPC have broken the law, & illegally introduced price increases without the thirty days notice that Irish law bounds them to do.

Kind Regards

Dr Pepper

Vanbis wrote: »

Dr Pepper, do you mind me asking how much the 10Mb packge is costing you? I got a text to say my speed was upgraded tp 20Mb.

I was on a 15Mb package which started in Dec for €39.75 per month (€32 per month plus a 7.75 charge for not having TV/phone with UPc). I think that was increased to 20Mb recently (which is not of much benefit to me - I browse, I don't download films, music, etc) but the bill was also increased to €41.75 per month (€34 per month plus the same 7.75 charge). The €2 doesn't really bother me, so much as the cheek of UPC to introduce this increase on just my 2nd bill of the 12 month contract (without adequate or any notice that I saw). Call me old-fashioned but I thought when you entered into a contract, the price would remain the same for the duration of that contract - apparently not.

Dr Pepper

Thanks EnterNow. I've sent the template email to info@comreg.ie

BurnsCarpenter

Where exactly have Comreg said they will need more complaints before they act?
Why would the number of complaints they receive have anything to do with anything?

dumb_parade

BurnsCarpenter wrote: »

Where exactly have Comreg said they will need more complaints before they act?
Why would the number of complaints they receive have anything to do with anything?

I have to agree on this. Surely each and every complaint should be considered on its own merits. Now they are just going to get a flurry of complaints and have to deal with them all at the same time. Tough.

Myrddin

BurnsCarpenter wrote: »

Where exactly have Comreg said they will need more complaints before they act?
Why would the number of complaints they receive have anything to do with anything?

There shouldn't be a need to complain, the law was broke. Isn't that the whole point of having a regulator?

slave1

I do wonder how may folk actually lodge an official complaint with UPC as their first port of call rather than engage in meaningless (from a UPC wonership perspective) fourm postings, the frustrastions here need to be balanced with the excellent and innovative steps they have taken in Ireland WRT speeds.
Personally, I calmly phoned them and asked why I needed to find out via word of mouth of the €2 increase (in my case) and asked to make a complaint and recindment of the increase as I was not informed on a personal basis (letter/email).
Instead of leaving (as is my entitlement) I negotiated a significant reduction in my monthly charge, signed up to a new 12month contract and remain with UPC, all done in 5 minutes.
The more folk that actually contact UPC over this the better.

UPC service = excellent
UPC price increase = poorly communicated

BurnsCarpenter

EnterNow wrote: »

There shouldn't be a need to complain, the law was broke. Isn't that the whole point of having a regulator?

Precisely. I'm curious why people think volume of complaints has anything to do with it, particularly given that the info on comreg's site is pretty clear cut.

I find it hard to believe that comreg would actually be saying they need X number of complaints before they do anything, when regulations have apparently been broken.

Dr Pepper

slave1 wrote: »

I do wonder how may folk actually lodge an official complaint with UPC as their first port of call rather than engage in meaningless (from a UPC wonership perspective) fourm postings, the frustrastions here need to be balanced with the excellent and innovative steps they have taken in Ireland WRT speeds.
Personally, I calmly phoned them and asked why I needed to find out via word of mouth of the €2 increase (in my case) and asked to make a complaint and recindment of the increase as I was not informed on a personal basis (letter/email).
Instead of leaving (as is my entitlement) I negotiated a significant reduction in my monthly charge, signed up to a new 12month contract and remain with UPC, all done in 5 minutes.
The more folk that actually contact UPC over this the better.

UPC service = excellent
UPC price increase = poorly communicated

Fair point(s)! They have given Eircom a badly-needed kick up the arse regarding speeds & cost in the market.

Myrddin

slave1 wrote: »

I do wonder how may folk actually lodge an official complaint with UPC as their first port of call rather than engage in meaningless (from a UPC wonership perspective) fourm postings, the frustrastions here need to be balanced with the excellent and innovative steps they have taken in Ireland WRT speeds.
Personally, I calmly phoned them and asked why I needed to find out via word of mouth of the €2 increase (in my case) and asked to make a complaint and recindment of the increase as I was not informed on a personal basis (letter/email).
Instead of leaving (as is my entitlement) I negotiated a significant reduction in my monthly charge, signed up to a new 12month contract and remain with UPC, all done in 5 minutes.
The more folk that actually contact UPC over this the better.

UPC service = excellent
UPC price increase = poorly communicated

Fair dues, nicely done Without coming across as negative though (bare in mind I'm chuffed with UPC's services I have), you probably got someone who actually gave a toss about their job on the other end of the phone. In my personal experience, when dealing with UPC on the phone, these people are few & far between.

All in all though a good point on your part. But to counter it, I don't give a damn about the money per se, but I've just about had it with laws applying to certain people/parties when it's convenient. I don't blame UPC for this, I blame our inept & frankly laughable regulation system, & not just for telecommunications. So it's their answer I'm looking for really, as to why this is permisseable.

Dr Pepper

EnterNow wrote: »

Fair dues, nicely done Without coming across as negative though (bare in mind I'm chuffed with UPC's services I have), you probably got someone who actually gave a toss about their job on the other end of the phone. In my personal experience, when dealing with UPC on the phone, these people are few & far between.

All in all though a good point on your part. But to counter it, I don't give a damn about the money per se, but I've just about had it with laws applying to certain people/parties when it's convenient. I don't blame UPC for this, I blame our inept & frankly laughable regulation system, & not just for telecommunications. So it's their answer I'm looking for really, as to why this is permisseable.

Agreed. Individuals doing deals and getting reversals on the increase is all very well (and happy-days if you do a deal) but it's not going to improve the 'culture' EnterNow described. People shouldn't have to minutely examine their bill, the small print on the t&c's, the Irish Law, then make phone calls based on that research. The vast majority of people won't have the time, know-how or patience to do this. That's why we have a regulator who is supposed to do it for us.

dub45

BurnsCarpenter wrote: »

Where exactly have Comreg said they will need more complaints before they act?
Why would the number of complaints they receive have anything to do with anything?

It was reported in a post here earlier in the debate on the price increases. Absolutely absurd of course.

jor el

Dr Pepper wrote: »

That's why we have a regulator who is supposed to do it for us.

Indeed, the Regulator is supposed to make sure that the service providers operate within the laws and requirements as laid down by government and regulator. In the vast majority of cases though, they do nothing. I had the pleasure of wasting quite a lot of my time with them last year, and in the end the only thing Comreg did was ask the service provider to respond to my complaint. I then got the exact same response that I had already gotten from the service provider, and a letter from Comreg assuring me that if they could ever "help" again in the future, that they would. Comreg did nothing about my actual complaint; that the service provider was breaking the law.

Anyway, I've modified EnterNow's template and sent it to info@comreg.ie, adding a bit more information to it.

To whom it may concern,

As you are undoubtedly already aware, UPC are implementing price increases from January of this year (2011). Under Irish law, such an increase is to be made aware to all existing customers at least thirty days in advance of the planned introduction. This has not happened. The price increases have been introduced, without informing the paying customers. Not only is this negligent, but it is also illegal according to Irish law as seen here -

"Changes to a contract
Your service provider may wish to change the terms and conditions of its service, including changes to the prices it charges. By law it may do so but it must notify you of the change at the same time at least one month in advance. The service provider must advise you that you have the right to end the contract without penalty if you do not accept the change to the contract."

From this link:
http://askcomreg.ie/news/changes_to_contracts___consumer_rights.7.1024.LE.asp
"ComReg notes that certain providers of telephone and/or electronic communications services are proposing changes to consumer contracts (terms and conditions) in the coming period. ComReg has made it clear to all service providers that press notifications (and other forms of notification not sent to subscribers individually) are not considered as meeting the requirement of the Regulations."

When it says on your own website, that indirect notification through newspaper advertisements or other means are not acceptable, then why is it that Comreg has not taken action against UPC for their un-notified price increase in January, or against O2 and Vodafone when they implemented similar price increases last year without notifying customers individually?

As the regulator of telecommunications in Ireland, I feel it is your responsibility to investigate this matter & take appropriate action. This law is not open to interpretation, it is quite clear cut, & as an Irish citizen I feel we (the public) are owed an explanation for this flagrance by UPC. I feel we are also owed an explanation as to why ComReg have not yet taken any action on this illegal act. Perhaps Comreg should point the ISPs in the direction of this link, where they can see what their responsibilities are:
http://www.askcomreg.ie/home/is_my_service_provider_allowed_to_change_the_terms_and_conditions_of_a_package_i_have_signed_up_for_.1.202.LE.asp

I eagerly await your comments, and thank you for taking the time to read this email on how UPC have broken the law, & illegally introduced price increases without the thirty days notice that Irish law binds them to do.

Kind Regard,

Anyone that is effected by the price increase should submit a formal complaint to UPC, and follow that up with Comreg. Anyone not effected by it should submit a complaint to Comreg, along the lines of the template that EnterNow has provided.

I wonder will any of us get an actual response?

hmmm

In fairness, per their recent report Comreg only have 113 staff, and the 3 commissioners were only a paid a mere pittance of 506,000 euros between them. You can't expect them to spend their time making sure the largest cable company in the country with three quarter of a million customers adheres to the law when they have so much else to do.

In particular, receiving external legal advice must take up a lot of their time considering they spent 6 million on it. They also managed to spend 214,000 on advertising for some reason and another 3 million on "administrative expenses" (no breakdown given). Staff costs were 9.462 million, which in case you're wondering averages 83,734 if you divide it by the number of staff.

watty

But they make a big profit for the Government.

dub45

slave1 wrote: »

I do wonder how may folk actually lodge an official complaint with UPC as their first port of call rather than engage in meaningless (from a UPC wonership perspective) fourm postings, the frustrastions here need to be balanced with the excellent and innovative steps they have taken in Ireland WRT speeds.

Firstly if UPC behaved properly customers wouldn't have to be ringing them to lodge complaints and secondly with all due respects to your good self this is nonsense and unfortunately all too prevalent in the forum in relation to UPC.

They bring in products and they get paid for them. Being innovative with products does not entitle anyone to be "innovative" with integrity. What justifies not telling people about a price increase? 100Mb 200Mb? UPC have a serious issue with integrity and no product or service justifies that. Excellent products do not preclude behaving as you should - and as long as people say "hey they are great with their fast speeds etc it doesnt really matter what they do" it will give comfort to UPC and others in the industry.

No one should have to balance integrity with innovation or good products.

slave1 wrote: »

Personally, I calmly phoned them and asked why I needed to find out via word of mouth of the €2 increase (in my case) and asked to make a complaint and recindment of the increase as I was not informed on a personal basis (letter/email).
Instead of leaving (as is my entitlement) I negotiated a significant reduction in my monthly charge, signed up to a new 12month contract and remain with UPC, all done in 5 minutes.
The more folk that actually contact UPC over this the better.

I agree the more people that contact them the better but as pointed out elsewhere the vast majority of customers were deliberately sleepwalked in to the new year and new prices by UPC and as most people are just ordinary users and probably never even heard of boards.ie or are privy to advice here so just put up with it. Plus ringing UPC can be a daunting task for many people given their lousy customer service record (and there have been several posts here of the strange recent non availability of the cancellation department.)

Remember that of 760,000 customers only approx 190,000 are bb customers. Also remember that UPC are using the poor "saps" who were sleepwalked into the new prices to subsidise those who get deals.

slave1 wrote: »

UPC service = excellent
UPC price increase = poorly communicated

It was of course poorly communicated to put it charitably but this was a deliberate thought out strategy so that as few customers as they could get away with informing would be told. (this is not the first time they have behaved this way. For example they changed the Terms and Condions in September - who heard properly? about those changes? Who was writted to about last year's price increases?)

Firsly UPC will be only too well aware of their obligations in their own Terms and Conditions. Do you mean to say UPC havent got an excellent legal team?

So lets say that amnesia hit the top management team before the meeting to discuss prince "changes" (note how as part of the strategy they rarely use the word "increase") and in their communications strategy talks they forgot all about their own Terms and Conditions but Hallelujah they had this to help jog the memories:

Changes to Contracts - Consumer rights

4th January 2011

ComReg notes that certain providers of telephone and/or electronic communications services are proposing changes to consumer contracts (terms and conditions) in the coming period. ComReg has made it clear to all service providers that press notifications (and other forms of notification not sent to subscribers individually) are not considered as meeting the requirement of the Regulations. ComReg would like to remind consumers of their rights in relation to this matter; please see related consumer FAQs

http://www.askcomreg.ie/news/changes_to_contracts___consumer_rights.7.1024.LE.asp

So even if they think Terms and Conditions are for the customers only they had Comreg the national regulator telling them that an ad in the Indo was not acceptable. (of course it might be handy for keeping the Indo sweet)

So they displayed contempt for their own Terms and Conditons, their customers and the National Regulator and the law of the land in one fell swoop.

Now for any customer visiting the UPC site during December last (in fact even prior to 4th December which was the last valid date for notifying customers of the impending "price change") what was potentially the most important piece of informaton? Yes the price "change". Where was the notice placed? Somewhere obvious? Oh yes the first place you look on a web site for an important piece of information is down in the bottom right of center under Manuals? Do you think that was accidentally placed there?

So the strategy was "let put an ad in the paper and a note on the website" then we can say we informed people.

How many people can this stategy potentially reach? 760,000 (no of customers) - 150,000 (indo readership0 - x (visitors to a website who squint to the right). So a deliberate strategy to leave 600,000 customers at the very least uninformed of "a price change"

Is this the behaviour of a reputable company? Currently a huge percentage of customers are paying charges which are simply not legal as UPC has not complied with its own Terms and Conditions. So as I have pointed out before if the "price change" averages one euro per customer per month UPC will get up to €750,000 in Januarly alone from an "irregular" price increase.

Try not to laugh too much when you read this quote from the Head of UPC Customer Operations at a recent industry self congratulatory awards bash.

“Enhanced customer trust is seen as the key to achieving greater business success.

Not just ordinary customer trust mind you but "enhanced"! (http://www.upc.ie/pdf/UPC_wins_ICCSS_Award.pdf)

Incidentally the bash where that was apparently spoken was on 20th November 2010 when the "non" communication strategy was well in place I am sure!

Also isnt it truly offensive to customers to include this with the bills:

Price Change Notice
Your bill includes price changes for your service from UPC. These changes were introduced on 4th January 2011 and come into effect on the date of the enclosed bill. The price changes were advertised during December 2010 in the national press and on our website www.upc.ie. All prices are inclusive of VAT.

The very methods specifically mentioned by Comreg as not being acceptable:mad:

weisses

hmmm wrote: »

In fairness, per their recent report Comreg only have 113 staff, and the 3 commissioners were only a paid a mere pittance of 506,000 euros between them. You can't expect them to spend their time making sure the largest cable company in the country with three quarter of a million customers adheres to the law when they have so much else to do.

sarcasm right?? ........ :eek:

conor.hogan.2

Again this is another case of a data/tv company screwing people over - which happens all over the world.

Also it is indicative of ireland in general.

Nollog

To whom it may concern,

As you are undoubtedly already aware, UPC have implemented price increases from January fourth and twentieth of this year (2011). Under Irish law, such an increase is to be notified in written form to all existing customers at least thirty days in advance of the planned introduction. This has not happened. The price increases have been introduced, without informing paying customers. Not only is this negligent, but it is also illegal according to Irish law as seen here -

"Changes to a contract
Your service provider may wish to change the terms and conditions of its service, including changes to the prices it charges. By law it may do so but it must notify you of the change at the same time at least one month in advance. The service provider must advise you that you have the right to end the contract without penalty if you do not accept the change to the contract."

From this link:
http://askcomreg.ie/news/changes_to_contracts___consumer_rights.7.1024.LE.asp
"ComReg notes that certain providers of telephone and/or electronic communications services are proposing changes to consumer contracts (terms and conditions) in the coming period. ComReg has made it clear to all service providers that press notifications (and other forms of notification not sent to subscribers individually) are not considered as meeting the requirement of the Regulations."

When it says on your own website, that indirect notification through newspaper advertisements or other means are not acceptable, then why is it that Comreg has not taken action against UPC for their failure to communicate price increases to customers in January, or against O2 and Vodafone when they implemented similar price increases last year without notifying customers individually?

As the regulator of telecommunications in Ireland, I feel it is your responsibility to investigate this matter & take appropriate action. This law is not open to interpretation, it is quite clear cut, & as an Irish citizen I feel we (the public) are owed an explanation for this flagrance by UPC. I feel we are also owed an explanation as to why ComReg have not yet taken any action on this illegal act. Perhaps Comreg should point the ISPs in the direction of this link, where they can see what their responsibilities are:
http://www.askcomreg.ie/home/is_my_service_provider_allowed_to_change_the_terms_and_conditions_of_a_package_i_have_signed_up_for_.1.202.LE.asp

I eagerly await your comments, and thank you for taking the time to read this email on how UPC have broken the law by illegally introducing price increases without the thirty day notice that Irish law binds them to.

Kind Regard,

I'm a bit of a stickler for grammar in official mails.

bealtine

dub45 wrote: »

The very methods specifically mentioned by Comreg as not being acceptable:mad:

A lot of people are under the impression that Comreg are there to "protect" them as consumers. None of Comreg's behaviour since their inception show that to be true.In fact I'd go as far as to say that Comreg regulate for the inductry and not the consumer. It's simply in Comreg's interest to allow price increases as that ups Comreg's income.

A classic case of regulatory capture if ever there was one.

dub45

bealtine wrote: »

A lot of people are under the impression that Comreg are there to "protect" them as consumers. None of Comreg's behaviour since their inception show that to be true.In fact I'd go as far as to say that Comreg regulate for the inductry and not the consumer. It's simply in Comreg's interest to allow price increases as that ups Comreg's income.

A classic case of regulatory capture if ever there was one.

This is not simply about Comreg "protecting" the consumer. A company (supposedly a reputable multinational at that) has not complied with the procedures required in respect of a price increase (or changes to Terms and Conditions). Comreg has a duty as regulator surely to ensure that Companies comply with whatever national obligations are in place. Comreg has pointed those out publicly (and apparently privately) to the companies involved and UPC have not paid a blind bit of notice to them - in fact it is arguable that UPC have shown complete contempt for Comreg in its behaviour in how it supposedly informed its customers about these charges apart from breaching the relevant regulations.

It is not just about protecting the customer - the price increases would have come in anyway obviously - surely Comreg has to show something beyond passivity.

Accepting behaviour only encourages it - saying thats how people always behave gets nowhere except to encourage the norm.

If Comreg dont act in this case then lets all write to the Ombudsman.

I have already written to NCA about this and received an abject reply which made Comreg seem like a paragon of aggressiveness!.

Incidentally the silence of the likes of Independent Newspaper in a case like this is very interesting. If a state body of any sort was behaving like this can you imagine how many headlines it would be making? Dont forget UPC's behaviour affects up to 17% of the population of the country and up to 50% of households. And they want customers to trust them?

kingofslaves

I got UPC 30Mb service with the HD TV & phone as Smart started giving me ****e speeds. They said it would be €85 a month plus install charges which I accepted as they didn't have a plug in point. Anyway got the first bill and saw i had been charged indiviually for each service so calle dhtme and they gave me a credit on the next bill (Dec) There was no mention of price increase and on the last bill I got it says the price is €86.25.

I asked for my number to be ex directory and it's not and the speed I'm getting is only 21/22Mb/s wireless, I can't connect via ethernet as the modem is too far away, and sometimes it can be a bit slow, not just at peak times either. What compensation would you think I would get if I called them and said I want to leave ? Also why have all the other customers on the lower packages have been upgraded, so why not the 30mb users ? surely UPC should keep them happy as they generate the most revenue ?

bealtine

dub45 wrote: »

This is not simply about Comreg "protecting" the consumer. A company (supposedly a reputable multinational at that) has not complied with the procedures required in respect of a price increase (or changes to Terms and Conditions). Comreg has a duty as regulator surely to ensure that Companies comply with whatever national obligations are in place. Comreg has pointed those out publicly (and apparently privately) to the companies involved and UPC have not paid a blind bit of notice to them - in fact it is arguable that UPC have shown complete contempt for Comreg in its behaviour in how it supposedly informed its customers about these charges apart from breaching the relevant regulations.

It is not just about protecting the customer - the price increases would have come in anyway obviously - surely Comreg has to show something beyond passivity.

Accepting behaviour only encourages it - saying thats how people always behave gets nowhere except to encourage the norm.

If Comreg dont act in this case then lets all write to the Ombudsman.

I have already written to NCA about this and received an abject reply which made Comreg seem like a paragon of aggressiveness!.

Incidentally the silence of the likes of Independent Newspaper in a case like this is very interesting. If a state body of any sort was behaving like this can you imagine how many headlines it would be making? Dont forget UPC's behaviour affects up to 17% of the population of the country and up to 50% of households. And they want customers to trust them?

It's a disgrace the way the regulator just rolls over and dies when confronted by a telco. The most useless regulator on the planet without doubt.

I don't disagree with your analysis in any way just don't expect Comreg to give a damn about mere consumers.

Myrddin

I recieved an equally 'templated' reply. They're looking for account numbers, address, etc...the usual stuff.

Just as well local law isn't 'regulated' like this. Imagine trying to report a murder:

Civilian - Hi, I wish to report a murder.
Regulator - Hi, Please state your name, address & contact phone number.
Civilian - Em, what's any of that got to do with reporting a murder. The law has been broken!
Regulator - Hi, Please state your name, address, & contact phone number.
Civilian - Bah, feck this it's too much hassle.
Regulator - Works like a charm every time.

bealtine

EnterNow wrote: »

Just as well local law isn't 'regulated' like this.

You mean not regulated at all don't you?

Myrddin

bealtine wrote: »

You mean not regulated at all don't you?

Well given that they exist as a regulator, I have to word it so there's someone doing it, but failing miserably. But yeah, in reality your analogy is far more accurate.

Nollog

To whom it may concern,

As you are undoubtedly already aware, UPC have implemented price increases from January fourth and twentieth of this year (2011). Under Irish law, such an increase is to be notified in written form to all existing customers at least thirty days in advance of the planned introduction. This has not happened. The price increases have been introduced, without informing paying customers. Not only is this negligent, but it is also illegal according to Irish law as seen here -

"Changes to a contract
Your service provider may wish to change the terms and conditions of its service, including changes to the prices it charges. By law it may do so but it must notify you of the change at the same time at least one month in advance. The service provider must advise you that you have the right to end the contract without penalty if you do not accept the change to the contract."

From this link:
http://askcomreg.ie/news/changes_to_contracts___consumer_rights.7.1024.LE.asp
"ComReg notes that certain providers of telephone and/or electronic communications services are proposing changes to consumer contracts (terms and conditions) in the coming period. ComReg has made it clear to all service providers that press notifications (and other forms of notification not sent to subscribers individually) are not considered as meeting the requirement of the Regulations."

When it says on your own website, that indirect notification through newspaper advertisements or other means are not acceptable, then why is it that Comreg has not taken action against UPC for their failure to communicate price increases to customers in January, or against O2 and Vodafone when they implemented similar price increases last year without notifying customers individually?

As the regulator of telecommunications in Ireland, I feel it is your responsibility to investigate this matter & take appropriate action. This law is not open to interpretation, it is quite clear cut, & as an Irish citizen I feel we (the public) are owed an explanation for this flagrance by UPC. I feel we are also owed an explanation as to why ComReg have not yet taken any action on this illegal act. Perhaps Comreg should point the ISPs in the direction of this link, where they can see what their responsibilities are:
http://www.askcomreg.ie/home/is_my_service_provider_allowed_to_change_the_terms_and_conditions_of_a_package_i_have_signed_up_for_.1.202.LE.asp

Recently, they also changed the upload speed from 2mbit to 1.5mbit without a word of notice for all their 15mbit customers which were "upgraded" to 20mbit. Surely this shows they have no intention to change the way they give notice to customers about product changes, and their total disregard of you as a regulatory body and general Irish consumer law.

I eagerly await your comments, and thank you for taking the time to read this email on how UPC have broken the law by illegally introducing price increases without the thirty day notice that Irish law binds them to.

Kind Regard,

I've added the upload change.

dub45

You may need to add abit more to the letter.

UPC proclaim their Acceptable usage policy to be part of their Terms and Conditions.

This User Policy has been created to promote the integrity, security, reliability and privacy of the UPC systems and networks and form part of the legally binding Terms and Conditions

By the way it is interesting in the light of their behaviour that they refer to the Terms and Conditions as being legally binding!

Then there is the following:

Section 2: Modification of User Policy
UPC retains the right to amend, modify or substitute this User Policy at any time and we will notify you in writing 30 days in advance of doing so if the modification, amendment or substitution constitutes a material change to the Terms and Conditions of the Services

The policy has obviously been recently amended as it includes the allowance for the new 100Mb product which has only just been released:

15GB for Fibre Power Broadband 1Mb users,
40GB for Fibre Power Broadband 8Mb users,
120GB for Fibre Power Broadband 10Mb and 15Mb users,
250GB for Fibre Power Broadband 20Mb and 30Mb users and
500GB for Fibre Power Broadband 100Mb users.

There was a previous amendment when the caps were first "revealed" and now this recent one. Surely all customers are entitled to know when such figures are changed updated or in the case on the "not actually unlimited"products actually revealed? I presume that nobody has been informed in writing of the the inclusion of the caps in the document?

(By the way surely all these documents should carry the last date of amendment and where they were uploaded to a website? - and that should apply to all companies)

And then there is this nonsense!

You should check this User Policy regularly as we may change it to take on board new issues that may arise in connection with your use of the Services or the way we provide the Services. The most up to date version of the User Policy will apply to your use of the Services, even if you have not read the updated version.

So all UPC customers should have a note in their diary to check the usage policy regularly! But wait how do you know anything has changed unless there is a date on the document which might give you some indication - or do they expect you to keep an old copy handy and do a line for line comparison?

Of course if they complied with their "legally binding Terms and Conditions" and informed customers of any such changes the crap above would not be necessary.

Elessar

My mother signed up to UPC digital TV just before christmas. I am with UPC for broadband for over 2 years. Now, my mother hates it. She's getting fewer stations than she thought she was plus the program guide is very slow and sluggish. She wants to go back to sky. On top of this, we have just got the first bill and UPC have overcharged us (I KNEW this would happen, but she wouldn't listen). Unfortunately we are now in a 12 month contract.

We want to cancel so I can just go back to broadband only (never had a problem until we added the TV) and so she can go back to sky.

Do these price increases mean a change of contract, thus allowing customers to cancel their contract without penalty? I remember O2 did similar and because of the change, people were allowed to cancel their contracts with them.

Dr Pepper

Sorry Elessar. I don't have an answer to your question but I would like to get an answer if anybody knows.

UPC replied to my complaint of last Friday by saying:

Thank you for your recent email.

Having reviewed your account I can see that you have been auto-upgraded from 15MB to 20 MB as per new UPC price hike policy 2011 which is just increased by €2.00 only.

If you wish to downgrade you will be charged of €10.00 as downgrade admin fee.

Moreover price hike was made public in the IRISH TIMES in the month of September 2010. All the customer have been informed via letters, e-billing etc.

My sincerest apology for not being received any information regarding price hike.

Aside from the linguistic errors, this guy is stating that I will be charged the €10 downgrade fee. Is that right?

I also got several charges added to my first bill that were not expected. When I called, the 'mistake' was admitted and the relevant credit applied to my account. It appears from this thread that UPC are either incompetent when it comes to setting up the first bill or else they purposely pile on charges knowing that the majority of customers will not notice/care!

I'm beginning to dislike UPC, although they do seem to provide a good product at a good price.

Elessar

Well, according to section 16 of their terms and conditions I can cancel the contract within 30 days. Comreg agrees.

Note: A press notice and/or a notice on your service provider’s website are not sufficient to let you know about the proposed changes to your contract terms and your right to withdraw.

I am in the process of drafting an email and will also send a registered letter. I phoned Comreg and have a case open and they asked me to CC them on the email.

However I just noticed something on their website that I think they will use against me/us - at http://www.upc.ie/about_us/pricenotice/ at the bottom there are different dates? It states:

UPC’s Broadband and Phone services remain excellent value, however under the terms of your contract you have the right to cancel or downgrade your service within 30 days of 3 December 2010 without penalty if you do not agree with these price changes (for those customers who subscribe to UPC Broadband Light this 30 day period applies from 21 December 2010).

The 3rd december?? Is it not when the price change comes into effect? I wasnt notified at all either.

Elessar

/\/ollog wrote: »

I've added the upload change.

Vollog, what price increase are you talking about when you mention the twentieth of January this year?

Dr Pepper

I'm not sure how that date (3rd Dec) could have been chosen. My first notification of the price increase was my bill on 21st Jan (amount noticed on online banking). There is a price increase notice in the "My Messages" section of "My UPC" on the website dated 7th Jan, which is odd and no use to me because I only registered for "My UPC" on 21st Jan! How could I have received a message 2 weeks before registering?

Beside, who logs onto every website they are registered with on a regular basis to check their "My Messages"? Bah! :rolleyes:

Nollog

Elessar wrote: »

Vollog, what price increase are you talking about when you mention the twentieth of January this year?

The lower-speed broadband users.
In the original price increase, they made some mistakes about the packages they would be upgraded to, they changed it late December so the lower-speed users got a few extra weeks.

Also Nollog is fine.

dub45

Dr Pepper wrote: »

Sorry Elessar. I don't have an answer to your question but I would like to get an answer if anybody knows.

UPC replied to my complaint of last Friday by saying:

Thank you for your recent email.

Having reviewed your account I can see that you have been auto-upgraded from 15MB to 20 MB as per new UPC price hike policy 2011 which is just increased by €2.00 only.

If you wish to downgrade you will be charged of €10.00 as downgrade admin fee.

Moreover price hike was made public in the IRISH TIMES in the month of September 2010. All the customer have been informed via letters, e-billing etc.

My sincerest apology for not being received any information regarding price hike.

Aside from the linguistic errors, this guy is stating that I will be charged the €10 downgrade fee. Is that right?

I also got several charges added to my first bill that were not expected. When I called, the 'mistake' was admitted and the relevant credit applied to my account. It appears from this thread that UPC are either incompetent when it comes to setting up the first bill or else they purposely pile on charges knowing that the majority of customers will not notice/care!

I'm beginning to dislike UPC, although they do seem to provide a good product at a good price.

That reply from UPC is absolutely great! Apart from the fact that it is full of lies that employee is so off the UPC "message" that it will give UPC Jason a heart attack:) Great to read a UPC employee actually using the term "price hike" but as for the rest? The Irish Times in September? How about the New York Times in August and the Kilkenny Bugle in July. Pick a paper pick a month its all irrelevant anyway.

In brief UPC raised their prices on 4th January for that rise to be legitimate customers should have been notified in writing by 4th December (a months notice in other words). If you did not get the notice then you are entitled to cancel your contract or downgrade without charge.

dub45

Dr Pepper wrote: »

I'm not sure how that date (3rd Dec) could have been chosen. My first notification of the price increase was my bill on 21st Jan (amount noticed on online banking). There is a price increase notice in the "My Messages" section of "My UPC" on the website dated 7th Jan, which is odd and no use to me because I only registered for "My UPC" on 21st Jan! How could I have received a message 2 weeks before registering?

Beside, who logs onto every website they are registered with on a regular basis to check their "My Messages"? Bah! :rolleyes:

The date 3rd December (or 4th December has also been mentioned) refers to the last date by which customers could be notified in writing by UPC if their increase in charges on 4th January was to be in accordance with their own Terms and Conditions and Comreg's stipulations regarding appropriate notice.

jor el

UPC reply to Dr Pepper wrote:

Moreover price hike was made public in the IRISH TIMES in the month of September 2010. All the customer have been informed via letters, e-billing etc.

Did any customer that's been effected by this price hike actually get a letter then? Or moreover, did you get a letter, Dr Pepper, as this UPC employee seems to be saying you did.

You should see the price change in your e-bill, but this is not notification of a price change, this comes after the price change.

Anyway, I got a response from Comreg.

Comreg wrote:

Thank you for your email.

ComReg is in ongoing communication with UPC regarding this matter. If you are not satisfied that you were appropriately notified by UPC, at least one month in advance of the change, you should lodge a formal complaint with UPC customer.support@upc.ie and copy ComReg consumerline@comreg.ie .

If you are not satisfied that your complaint has been dealt with by UPC you should inform ComReg consumerline@comreg.ie of the details of your individual complaint as follows:-

· Details, including dates, of any communication you received from UPC in relation to the change, (if possible provide copies)

· Details of the price change i.e. difference in the total amount billed , date billed and any other changes

· Details of any communication to/from UPC in relation to your complaint, (if possible provide copies)

So, basically Comreg are not going to do anything about it, except look into my complaint if I choose to lodge one with UPC. This will do nothing about UPC's lack of proper notification to all of it's customers, nor will it stop them doing it again in future. As I requested, Comreg should tell UPC to undo the price raise, and send the proper notification to all effected customers before implementing it again.

Dr Pepper

jor el wrote: »

Did any customer that's been effected by this price hike actually get a letter then? Or moreover, did you get a letter, Dr Pepper, as this UPC employee seems to be saying you did.

I didn't receive any letter. Here is the communication I received:
- a text message, dated 11th Jan - "You can now view and pay your latest UPC bill on www.upc.ie. This bill includes a price change. Log into My UPC and select My Messages for more information."
- my (increased) bill on 21st Jan
- a message in My Messages on My UPC. The message was dated 7th Jan, but I hadn't even registered for My UPC until after I got my bill on 21st Jan!

In fairness, I had forgotten about the text message - but that was sent more than a week after the increase was introduced and only 1 week before I received my bill, so in no way constitutes 30 days advance notice.

By the way, I got the exact same response as you (word-for-word) from Jean Dwyer at comreg!

IMO, what this issue needs is a competent journalist that will write the ugly unabridged facts as they are and give UPC and comreg the public kick-up-the-arse they deserve. It's plain to see that UPC purposely ignored the regulations to introduce the price increase with the minimum of fallout (i.e. customer loss/complaints). I don't believe that written complaints to UPC and comreg are going to get very far.

bealtine

jor el wrote: »

So, basically Comreg are not going to do anything about it, except look into my complaint if I choose to lodge one with UPC.

That's a standard response, exactly the same one they send for almost everything. It's likely that however received the complaint has no "power"
to do anything about it and can't escalate the complaint.

Perhaps representations at a higher level are required?
In this perhaps IrelandOffline can help?

dub45

Comreg's response in this case is quite shocking and I do not use that word lightly.

Here we have a multinational actually challenging the authority of a national regulator it is that stark.

A mutlinational breaking its own "legally binding" Terms and Conditions (its own words!)

A mulitnational ignoring EC regulations.

A mulitinational imposing price increases (and lying to beat the band!) which affect 50% of the houselholds in the country.

A multinational generating at a guess up to 750.000 euros in January alone from irregular price increases.

And the Regulator tells individuals to complain themselves!!!!

Looks like the Joe Duffy show is the only hope for real regulation!

We should organise a protest outside Comreg's offices one of these days.

Dr Pepper

dub45 wrote: »

...Looks like the Joe Duffy show is the only hope for real regulation....

Sad, but probably true *shudders*

RoyalMarine

sent email to them.
also got my dad who is a customer to do the same.

dub45

Dr Pepper wrote: »

Sad, but probably true *shudders*

Why not cc your correspondence with Comreg to the Joe Duffy show?

Myrddin

dub45 wrote: »

Why not cc your correspondence with Comreg to the Joe Duffy show?

Actually that's not a bad idea. Though if we get Joe involved UPC will be shut down by next week :pac:

I'll send the show on a mail & see what they say.

Dr Pepper

Thanks. I don't want to have to talk on national radio!

Myrddin

Dr Pepper wrote: »

Thanks. I don't want to have to talk on national radio!

That's whats wrong with us (collectively). Feck it man, if the only way to get anything done is to shout about it then so be it. A new year a new EnterNow & all that jazz

It's likely Joe won't entertain the thoughts of airing the issue though.

Dr Pepper

Hehe, thanks for the pep talk but I kind of have a personal resolution never in my life to speak on the Joe Duffy show

Yes, it will have to be a 'slow news day' to get this issue on. It's not the kind of emotive, sensationalist stuff he usually entertains (provokes) his listeners with.

Maybe a 'letter to the editor' or an email to a journalist who covers this type of subject (communications or consumer issues) would have a better chance of reaching people.