New England Patriots thread (MOD WARNING - #4503)

nerd69

TO. wrote: »

I agree with all of this. Guys like Hooman are a dime a dozen in the NFL. They are the bog standard blocking TE who can catch when needed but wont light it up. Guys like Gronk, Graham, Gonzalez, Davis, Witten, Thomas, Cameron etc etc are what has become of tight ends. Big Powerful fast monsters who can catch and cause so much mismatch they get open.

You may not find another "Gronk" but finding a guy who fits that mould is key. Sad to say the traditional Tight Ends are now just extra blockers who you will throw to the odd time.

But bar graham there all good blockers?

Hazys

I could see the Patriots drafting a QB in the first 2 rounds and definitely at some point during the draft.

Part of it is due diligence, we brought in Tebow and Locker in previous years, both were first rounders. I guess they bring them in to test their rookie evaluation process. See how they rated them before the draft and a couple of years later see how they turn out in the NFL and compare how accurate their rookie evaluation was...because we are going to need that QB rookie evaluation process to be accurate in a couple of years.

Ok I'm going to say something ludicrous and completely blasphemous, so skip past this next sentence if you don't want to see what temporary psychosis looks like...ok here goes...Tom will not be Tom Terrific forever, he is human just like us and like us, he is susceptible to the aging process.

Sorry what happened? i think i blacked out, i just woke up face down on my keyboard...


I think the Patriots are preparing for an Aaron Rodgers type situation. Where if there is a blue chip QB available at No 29, we are ready to make that pick. Would i be upset that we used a 1st round pick on a guy who will hold a clip board for the next few seasons Vs a starter who can help us win a Super Bowl straight away? I don't think so. I see it if it happens as we have locked down the QB position for at least another decade; Brady for the next 3 or so seasons and the next QB for the next 10 seasons...i think if BB trusts his evaluation process and the right player is there, he's got to pull the trigger. Its going to happen, maybe not this year buts its coming. GB drafted Rodgers when Farve was 36, the Broncos drafted Osweiler when Manning when he was 37...Brady will be 37 this season.

Regardless, we will be drafting a QB in some round as we need a backup if Mallett leaves at the end of the season. We can't wait till next year and have Brady backed up by a rookie with 0 seasons of our system under his belt.

TO.

nerd69 wrote: »

But bar graham there all good blockers?

Graham is the exception as he is used as a WR more so than a TE but yes every one of them I mentioned can do a decent enough job blocking. For the most part the traditional guys are better blockers but lets face it you have any of those above on the field you find ways around depending on their blocking skills

Son Of A Vidic

BizzyC wrote: »

Brady throws to whoever is open.
The fact that he only got 19 targets is what worries me.
Had he been targeted 50 times and had the same production I'd be less worried.

I wouldn't be worried, 12 catches from 19 targets makes it pretty clear his priority role has been as blocker and it probably will remain so.
But if he had 12 catches on 50 targets like you suggested, then I personally would be very worried, not less so.

BizzyC wrote: »

I'd actually feel a little more comfortable even if we had a good receiving FB in the squad also

Me too, Vereen is not enough and Bolden has demonstrated he can't effectively do the role when Vereen is out. That's why I would have loved to have landed Darren Sproles, but it wasn't to be.

nerd69

TO. wrote: »

Graham is the exception as he is used as a WR more so than a TE but yes every one of them I mentioned can do a decent enough job blocking. For the most part the traditional guys are better blockers but lets face it you have any of those above on the field you find ways around depending on their blocking skills

Ya compleatly misread your post I agree with you 100% at this stage I would rather have a stud tight end than receiver or running back modern nfl is all about mismatches an you can't match up with someone like gronk (bar using the injury gods of coarse)

me89

We are resigning Patrick Chung.
Not sure I'm happy about this.

nerd69

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

I wouldn't be worried, 12 catches from 19 targets makes it pretty clear his priority role has been as blocker and it probably will remain so.
But if he had 12 catches on 50 targets like you suggested, then I personally would be very worried, not less so.



Me too, Vereen is not enough and Bolden has demonstrated he can't effectively do the role when Vereen is out. That's why I would have loved to have landed Darren Sproles, but it wasn't to be.

i was championing sproles to ye at the time i think it would have been massive delighted we got him tbh

me89 wrote: »

We are resigning Patrick Chung.
Not sure I'm happy about this.

i dont know he made a lot of tackles vs the eagles last year im supprised anyone has signed him tbh he was terrible last year

Son Of A Vidic

me89 wrote: »

We are resigning Patrick Chung.

Christ Jesus why? The guy can't play and he can't stay healthy. This has got to be the latest April Fool's joke ever?

TO.

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Christ Jesus why? The guy can't play and he can't stay healthy. This has got to be the latest April Fool's joke ever?

My sentiments exactly. He is awful at covering.

Masked Man

meh special teams and back up will be alright. If he does any serious amount of pass coverage I think I'll cry.

Son Of A Vidic

Sorry lads, gotta rant again about Chung. The more I think about it, the worst it gets. Even if he offered to comeback and play free of charge, I still don't want him back here. And just when I thought we had a fairly good FA, this happens. It makes no sense on any level.

Unless Bill and the lads got scared that we might actually have a really good secondary now. Got scared, missed the old times and decided to bring back some of the crap. Anyway, hopefully he won't make it out of camp.

nerd69

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Sorry lads, gotta rant again about Chung. The more I think about it, the worst it gets. Even if he offered to comeback and play free of charge, I still don't want him back here. And just when I thought we had a fairly good FA, this happens. It makes no sense on any level.

Unless Bill and the lads got scared that we might actually have a really good secondary now. Got scared, missed the old times and decided to bring back some of the crap. Anyway, hopefully he won't make it out of camp.

hate saying this about guys but honestly hes a waste of a roster spot

eagle eye

It has to be for STs. We have a good secondary so they bring back a guy who knows our STs which makes sense as he is a good ST'er. He serves as a very deep backup in the secondary just like Ebner and like Slater at WR.

On all our best seasons under BB we have had three ST'ers on the roster.

Son Of A Vidic

On a positive note, we're getting close to the wind up for 2014. Off seasons programme dates are now set...

Offseason program begins
April 21

Organized team activities (voluntary)
May 27
May 29-30
June 2-3
June 5
June 9-10
June 12-13

Full-team minicamp (mandatory)
June 17-19

BizzyC

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

I wouldn't be worried, 12 catches from 19 targets makes it pretty clear his priority role has been as blocker and it probably will remain so.
But if he had 12 catches on 50 targets like you suggested, then I personally would be very worried, not less so.

But my point isn't about his effectiveness in the passing game, it's his inclusion in it.
When a D see's Hooman line up at end, they immediately know to play the run cause he does not get passed to.

If you put a more balanced TE in there, they still have to honor the fact that this guy may go downfield. It's that uncertainty just gives the Oline a little help in the run game which we miss sorely when Gronk is out.

The passing attack will sort itself out, Brady will find the open man, I just want to see more balance like we had in previous years.

Son Of A Vidic

BizzyC wrote: »

But my point isn't about his effectiveness in the passing game, it's his inclusion in it.
When a D see's Hooman line up at end, they immediately know to play the run cause he does not get passed to.

Or perhaps lack of inclusion. In an offense lacking our usual TE sets last year. Hoooman's role was primarily a blocker. And I already said this in my first post about him. I'm more concerned about defenses predicting our over reliance on slots. The Broncos game was yet another example. When all we had was Edelman (Brilliant, but couldn't do it all himself) Amendola, Boyce and Collie, their secondary wasn't too worried about us stretching the field. I'm less concern about focusing on our 1 TE on the field last year and more concerned about how once again, the lack of a wide/deep threat limited our passing game. Like the Ravens did in 2012, flood the middle and shutdown the slots.

Granted Dobson was injured and Thompkins was never the same after that heavy fall on his hip in week 12 and that limited us. But a slot heavy attack crippled us. I'd invite anyone to watch that game again and you will clearly see Brady has no time for or trust in Amendola. I counted several occasions where he blatantly did not throw to him. I won't go off on that tangent, but he'll never have that chemistry with Tom that Danny has. Yet he gets double his salary, absolutely ridiculous.

BizzyC wrote: »

If you put a more balanced TE in there, they still have to honor the fact that this guy may go down field. It's that uncertainty just gives the Oline a little help in the run game which we miss sorely when Gronk is out.

No TE in the league gets open or blocks with the same ability as Gronk, he is just a freak of nature.That's why I'm not going to judge Hooman harshly, especailly for operating as a lone TE all year. Of course we need our balanced TE sets back asap, but if recent history(Gronk string of injuries) has taught us anything, it is not to over rely on it again. I would also rather see us employ proper TE's, rather than draft La Fell into a new role there. Occasional snaps there are fine, but not to utilise him in a wide role would be a sin imo.

BizzyC wrote: »

The passing attack will sort itself out, Brady will find the open man, I just want to see more balance like we had in previous years.

I think we all want to see that balance, The drafting of Dobson last year was the first time in many a long year we tried to address our lack of a wide/deep threat. We needed a guy of his physical skill set. But we need some more of these guys and I was delighted when we signed LaFell. But now I'm concerned, if LaFell is going to be used in a hybrid Hernandez role who goes wide? Because we need more cover out there.

The reason I'm also raising this issue is because I am worried about Dobson's foot. I won't bore you with medical crap, but there is a particular type of foot fracture I'm worried about and if Dobson suffered it. Then all I will say is it is not good. Yes I'm expecting the worst and hoping to be pleasantly surprised.

BizzyC

That was my point, it's not how effective he is that worries me, it's that we don't include him.
The fact that Hooman was targetted 19 times tells me he doesn't get open enough for Brady to look his way.

I'm not saying we need a TE who can gain 150 yards and 2 TD's from the end position a la Gronk.
I'm saying we need someone who will run enough routes so that the D doesn't ignore them and can't afford to load up on run when they see him on the end.

That video you posted is a good example - 8 in the box vs. 11 personnel, he got over the top thanks to poor LB cover and he's open for the TD.
The fact is that if not for the poor job by the LB, the D were capable of committing 8 men to the box while we had trips on the field... I find that very worrying.

With a better receiving TE in the lineup, there's a safety over that play every time.


We do still need the deep routes to help get the passing game going properly without Gronk, but we're not doing enough to fill the hole in the running game when he's out.



As a side note, how depressing is it when we're accepting the necessity of a game plan for the inevitability that Gronk will always get injured

JaMarcusHustle

Adrian Wilson just tweeted a thank you/goodbye so he's on his way.

Frees up #24 for a certain somebody.

Hazys

Dennard was released from jail today after 35 of a possible 60 days...so wont miss any off season workouts.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Hazys wrote: »

Dennard was released from jail today after 35 of a possible 60 days...so wont miss any off season workouts.

Lets hope that'll be the last of his troubles, he must be on thin ice at this stage.

me89

Spikes being an idiot

JaMarcusHustle

He got a $960,000 signing bonus.

Idiot.

Hazys

Spikes is obviously an idiot and a bad character guy. What i find amazing is how BB can keep theses bad characters in line when they have Patriots uniforms on (Hernandez aside although i think that's a different story) and as soon as they leave they start saying stupid sh1t in the media...see Talib

I guess it helps we tend to avoid having too many me-first a$$holes on the team in the first place although in pro sports me-first egos are hard to completely avoid in a roster of 53 players. I think its testament to BB and the strong leaders we have in the locker room.

Hazys

From IMDB:

From the producers of the Academy Award winning "12 Years a Slave", comes a heroic tale, based on a true story, of Brandon, a pro athlete forced by his evil head coach to do his job and think of the team first all for just a few measly million dollars. Watch Brandon as he fights for his right to be an a$$hole, film sex tapes, inflate his ego and eventually find freedom in a 1 year contract in Buffalo after no team seriously considers him anything above an average LB in the NFL.

This summer catch "4 Years a Slave" starring Brandon Spikes in a theater near you.

Tristram

Very good

TO.

I love the reaction from bitter players who are just utter knob ends when they get dumped from a team. Talk about setting your new team up for fail before the season even starts.

I finally started work this week after my long wait and the drive ranges from an hour to 2 hours depending on traffic but the best part that brightens my journey. Driving through Foxboro and seeing Gillette twice a day.

Son Of A Vidic

Hazys wrote: »

From IMDB:

From the producers of the Academy Award winning "12 Years a Slave", comes a heroic tale, based on a true story, of Brandon, a pro athlete forced by his evil head coach to do his job and think of the team first all for just a few measly million dollars. Watch Brandon as he fights for his right to be an a$$hole, film sex tapes, inflate his ego and eventually find freedom in a 1 year contract in Buffalo after no team seriously considers him anything above an average LB in the NFL.
This summer catch "4 Years a Slave" starring Brandon Spikes in a theater near you.

Excellent stuff.


To compare his privileged well paid status, to that of his ancestors who were brutalised and tortured every day. What a wankshaft.

Son Of A Vidic

TO. wrote: »

...but the best part that brightens my journey. Driving through Foxboro and seeing Gillette twice a day.

I really hate am delighted for you.



Think I'll spare my monitor for once.....

BaronVon

I see Gronk is on schedule with his rehab, due to start light jogging in the next few weeks. I'd love to have him for 19 full games next season!

TO.

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

I really hate am delighted for you.



Think I'll spare my monitor for once.....

I think a Pats game this year is on the cards. Got a spare room and two comfy couches.