Access for runners on Coillte lands may be curtailed

donothoponpop

forestman wrote: »

Just a few thoughts on this:

I dont think it is ever on the cards to dispose of the land owned by Coillte, I would imagine if there was a sale then it would be comprised of the trees/timber only. As for the argument put forward about clearfelling trees in order to sell the bare ground - this would be impossible as a felling licence is required in order to fell trees and a replanting requirement is built into this. Therfore it would not be possible to sell the land and not replant it. This argument has been in the public domain for a while now and whilst it is impossible to determine what excatly the goverment will decide I can safely say that a wholesale disposal of Forestry lands would not be on the cards. We will all be running through forests for a long time more to come!!

Every single example I know of that has been clearfelled in the past two years has not been replanted (as it should be under Coillte policy). This from direct experience, of multiple sites throughout Wicklow. There's been a massive escalation in felling operations (partly through crop maturity, partly through dry timber after two arctic winters). I've heard anecdotally this is to make Coillte's balance sheet look good, for pending sale.

Any thoughts on why there's not been anywhere near the same scale in replanting?

forestman

Yes. Replanting takes place two years after clearfelling - the sites you mention will probably be up for planting this spring.

earlyevening

Just to add that Eoghan Murphy, TD in Dublin SE lists adventure racing as one of his interests on his website. He might be slightly more sympathetic to this cause if he enjoys the hills+forests himself. Those of us in Dublin SE should make a point of contacting him specifically.

Bugsy2000

Galway East done. I hit Galway West plus all government ministers too for good measure.

forestman

donothoponpop wrote: »

There's been a massive escalation in felling operations (partly through crop maturity, partly through dry timber after two arctic winters).

Not sure who told you that timber is cut because its dry after an arctic winter?! Timber felling programmes are designed on a 5 year cycle and agreed with the Forest service. Annual programmes are identified and agreed and are based on silvicultural requirements and market demand.

donothoponpop

forestman wrote: »

Yes. Replanting takes place two years after clearfelling - the sites you mention will probably be up for planting this spring.

I'm looking out at Hillbrook in Wicklow right now, cleared over three years ago, no sign of any replanting yet. Ditto many other sites felled over two years ago.

You say we will be running in these forests for years to come. I want to believe that too, but I think we'll have to let our viewpoint known, or silence will be mistaken for compliance. The government says Coillte lands are not for sale last year, now their sale is being discussed at Cabinet next week. Unfortunately thats what I believe will happen. It's a less impossible vista than turning €100 billion of bank debt into taxpayer debt, and Irish governments have done that already.

lynchieboy

This sale must be opposed by all groups with an interest in using OUR forrest lands not a fragmented approach from several different groups, if its trail running, mountain running, orienteering, mountain biking, hill walkers, hunting, shooting, fishing, riding horses, bird watchers etc etc. If we can show that this a united organised opposition by hundreds of thousands of people with hundreds of thousands of votes then and only then will we be listened to.

cruizer101

Just copy and pasted the whole list from the excel file and sent it off.
Will send to some others to try get them to also.

forestman

donothoponpop wrote: »

I'm looking out at Hillbrook in Wicklow right now, cleared over three years ago, no sign of any replanting yet. Ditto many other sites felled over two years ago.

You say we will be running in these forests for years to come. I want to believe that too, but I think we'll have to let our viewpoint known, or silence will be mistaken for compliance. The government says Coillte lands are not for sale last year, now their sale is being discussed at Cabinet next week. Unfortunately thats what I believe will happen. It's a less impossible vista than turning €100 billion of bank debt into taxpayer debt, and Irish governments have done that already.

Work away, I agree that if a sale were to be on the cards then every avenue of protest should be examined and utilised. Im just trying to clarify some of the issues. I cant explain why the sites you mentioned are not replanted yet but there are probably other less sinister issues at play rather than preparing the land for sale. There has often been a lot of uproar over things like this and much of it has been fuelled by a lack of knowledge and supposition rather than facts. Anyway thats my 10cents worth. I'm not trying to change your mind and I applaud your efforts.

donothoponpop

forestman wrote: »

Work away, I agree that if a sale were to be on the cards then every avenue of protest should be examined and utilised. Im just trying to clarify some of the issues. I cant explain why the sites you mentioned are not replanted yet but there are probably other less sinister issues at play rather than preparing the land for sale. There has often been a lot of uproar over things like this and much of it has been fuelled by a lack of knowledge and supposition rather than facts. Anyway thats my 10cents worth. I'm not trying to change your mind and I applaud your efforts.

Cheers, and I acknowledge what you're saying too. I'm no expert, I could certainly be wrong about a lot of things, and stand to be corrected. I'm only going on what my eyes are telling me having lived and run around the forests of Wicklow this past 6 years or so. There's been a huge upscale in felling operations over the past three years or so, that's bourne out by lots of the other hill users I talk to. I've found any of the Coillte bosses I've had dealings with, to be very accommodating when it comes to discussions regarding access etc (for races or whatever), and their open forests policy is a hugely successful one. As it should be; these forests and their lands are ultimately owned by the Irish people.

But I fear that ownership is about to be put to the test.

Doc Ruby

Sounds like a court challenge might be the next step. I've only just heard about this but if anyone is in contact with the "save the forests" group I can't share their facebook link because they have some external page thing instead. I'd definetely contribute to a legal defence fund.

donothoponpop

Got a reply from two TD's so far, one (Andrew Doyle TD) whose office says he will contact me soon, another (Anne Ferris TD) who shares our concerns, and has written to the Minister seeking clarification on possible sale of Coillte lands.

These people work for us, if you feel strongly about the issue, write to them and put them to work.

brownian

donothoponpop wrote: »

Feel free to send on, amend, point out corrections, etc. But please do send it on in your name, if you agree with the sentiments. I know for a fact that things can change when TD's listen to their constituents. And they do listen, but you have to speak up.

*****************

Dear Elected Representative,

It has been reported that over 7% of Irish land, owned and managed by Coillte, is to be sold to private investors, at the behest of the EU/IMF troika. This land is public land which is our bequest to future generations. It is currently freely accessible to Irish citizens, who can enjoy the many benefits our forests and uplands offer- including walking, bike trails, nature watching, mountain climbing, running, etc. At a time when these outdoor pursuits are becoming more popular, and the associated health benefits better understood, to sell off such an asset in order for private debt to be serviced, is nothing short of treason to the Irish State.

The health and recreational benefit of these Coillte lands are immeasurable. With sustainable management, these forests and uplands can create thousands of jobs and training opportunities, and remain the property of the Irish people. As more people discover the benefits of exercise, keeping Coillte lands open and free will reduce our reliance on Health services.

The mineral rights under Coillte land belong to the Irish people. Currently, any Freedom of Information request to see the results of Coillte's internal mineral surveys are greeted with stonewalling and refusal. What assets are contained in those reports, and are now secretly for sale?

Ireland is one of the best land masses in the world on which to harvest wind energy, a clean, environmentally friendly, energy resource. The prime sites on which to operate wind farms are on Coillte hilltops. Far better to keep these sites and future income streams in public ownership, than to sell them on to speculators at knock-down prices.

At the stroke of a pen, 7% of Ireland will be transferred to private hands- land that generations of patriots fought to keep free for the Irish people. I urge you, as an elected representative of the Irish people, to oppose any measure which would see Coillte lands transferred from Irish sovereignty to fenced-in private corporations.

Is mise le meas,

Thanks for going to the trouble, dpop. However, the message you want to focus on is that you object to the sale of Coillte lands. So dragging in (valid, but out of place) issues such as Coillte's FOI coyness tends to muddy the water a little. I'd omit that paragraph (and have, in my shameless re-use of your excellent template).

donothoponpop

brownian wrote: »

Thanks for going to the trouble, dpop. However, the message you want to focus on is that you object to the sale of Coillte lands. So dragging in (valid, but out of place) issues such as Coillte's FOI coyness tends to muddy the water a little. I'd omit that paragraph (and have, in my shameless re-use of your excellent template).

By all means, amend, edit, add, to suit your personal viewpoint. It's a stronger choir that sings with many voices.:)

Slogger Jogger

Great letter template dp. I've written to the Wicklow reps too. I can't believe you didn't mention Annagh hill in your letter If you hear back from them invite them down for a hill run / walk

Slogger Jogger

This cause was set up the last time this was in the news but the link is still signing up members.
http://www.causes.com/causes/581465-save-ireland-s-forests-stop-the-sale-of-coillte

Mothman

robinph wrote: »

but other interested parties may be found in these corners of boards.ie

Nature & Bird Watching

Just opened a thread in N & BW

I'd be of similar thinking to forestman, but on the other hand one really can't take anything for granted. At least there is something in the mainstream media to fuel the concerns and dp, I applaud your efforts at whipping our asses into action

misty floyd

Michael o leary, on the late late, just mentioned selling off coilte forestry....all of it, to get funds for the country. What a dick.

Sandwell

misty floyd wrote: »

Michael o leary, on the late late, just mentioned selling off coilte forestry....all of it, to get funds for the country. What a dick.

I've got a great deal of respect for O'Leary but people that think that his success in running a no-frills airline gives him an insight on how to run a country are idiots.

Orion

Email sent to the 4 North Kildare TDs and 2 local councillors (FG and Lab). I customised the letter to stress the facility of Donadea Forest Park and the fact that it is used by hundreds of locals and hosts an AAI affiliated club.

Slogger Jogger

I got a response back from Anne Ferris TD for Wicklow. She said she would raise these concerns with the Minister and revert back.

Bugsy2000

Response below from Ciaran Cannon.

Dear Kenneth,

Thank you for your recent e.mail regarding Coillte lands.

I have made representations on your behalf to Michael Noonan, T.D., Minister for Finance in this regard.

I will be in contact with you again when I hear further on this matter.

With best wishes,


Yours sincerely,

Ciaran Cannon T.D.
Minister for Training & Skills.

climbhigh

Forests act as an important carbon sink thus reducing Ireland’s greenhouse gas emissions. Felling and reduced afforestation make it more difficult for Ireland to meet EU 2020 targets on GHG emissions. Public forest now only accounts for around one half of Ireland’s forest land cover.

Well maybe we are already at the top of the class? The statistics show us at the other end with the Netherlands, see http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/publications/2011/annualreviewandoutlookforagriculturefisheriesandfood20102011/forestry/forestcoverinirelandandtheeu-25/

PaulieC

From Kevin Humphreys (Dublin South-East)

Dear Paul,

Thank for your email. While there has been significant debate, and discussion of the sale of state assets, nothing concrete has emerged as yet.

However, with regards to Coillte, my understanding is that the land would not be sold, but the harvesting rights to the timber would be for a period of several years while the land would remain in state ownership.

This would also be managed with regard to state parks and recreation areas.

Yours Sincerely

Kevin

Kevin Humphreys TD

(01) 6183224
kevin.humphreys@oir.ie

donothoponpop

cambo_gueno wrote: »

From Kevin Humphreys (Dublin South-East)

Dear Paul,

Thank for your email. While there has been significant debate, and discussion of the sale of state assets, nothing concrete has emerged as yet.

However, with regards to Coillte, my understanding is that the land would not be sold, but the harvesting rights to the timber would be for a period of several years while the land would remain in state ownership.

This would also be managed with regard to state parks and recreation areas.

Yours Sincerely

Kevin

Kevin Humphreys TD

(01) 6183224
kevin.humphreys@oir.ie

Fair play for getting a reply cambo_gueno. If the bolded bit was enshrined, there wouldn't be such a problem, but its far from clear what the intentions are.

I got a reply from Minister Howlin, via representations from Anne Ferris TD:

Ms Anne Ferris TD
Wicklow/East Carlow Constituency
Email : [anne.ferris@oireachtas.ie]



Dear Anne


I wish to acknowledge receipt of your email dated 20th January 2012 on behalf of Mr. Paul J**** regarding the sale of Coillte.

This matter is currently under consideration and I will be in contact with you again as soon as possible.


Yours sincerely


Brendan Howlin TD
Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform

PaulieC

got a reply, but basically the whole thing was just a collection of weasel words. I like Kevin and he's a good bloke and was always a very good local councillor, but I doubt if he'll be able to do anything if the decision is made at the big table.
It is good though that the debate looks to be couched in terms of not selling the lands, but just the usage rights (with provision for public access). I mean it's not ideal, but it's a little heartening to know that our politicians are not so foolish to be thinking in terms of an outright sale

Orion

Reply from Emmet Stagg:

Thank you for your email.

I am not privy to Cabinet discussions but the Programme for Government is clear on the development of Coillte through its merger with Bord na Mona. The matter was raised by myself and others at today`s meeting of our Parliamentary Party. The Party Leader Eamon Gilmore T.D. advised that no decision had been made todate but that the sale of the trees for harvesting was been considered. There was no question he said of the Public Access to the lands being changed.

Regards,

Emmet

Krusty_Clown

Eamon Gilmore wrote:

Dear Mr Clown

Thank you for your email of January 20th and please accept my apologies for the delay in replying.

Please be advised that there are no plans to sell Coillte lands.

Thank you for writing to me.

Best wishes,



Yours sincerely


Eamon Gilmore TD
Tanaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs & Trade

A bit disrespectful to refer to me as a clown, but the sentiment is good.

brownian

I got a more or less identical reply from Eamonn Gilmore too.

Noting there are no plans to SELL the lands... but I'd have preferred somethink like "there are no plans to restrict public access to Coilllte lands in any way"....

lynchieboy

Surely any private company harvesting the forrests wouldnt want the general public on or near the lands when work is taking place in case of an accident and litigation. The government would have to take this into account when signing any contracts and would probably give these private companies the right to close off areas to the public for health and safety reasons and thus restricting access. You can get ANYTHING implemented if its a 'health and safety issue'.