Tolling coming to all 45km of the M50

billyboy01

I heard today on Newstalk from the AA guy that there are plans to use barrier free style camera tolling at every junction on the full 45km lenght of the M50, at a cost of approx. 20c per junction passed! Will you pay up or go back to the back roads and city centre?

Zubeneschamali

I'll pay.

Anan1

I'll pay.

johnos1984

Has everyone forgotten that the toll on the M50 is to use the bridge and not the road itself?

Also haven't tolls up to now already paid for the road?

Another pain in my back pocket

david

That's cool, I'll just congest the City Centre even more at peak times so.

calvin_zola

is this like in the States where you are tolled for the amount of the road you use?

shamwari

calvin_zola wrote: »

is this like in the States where you are tolled for the amount of the road you use?

And that is exactly what road taxes are for here

TouchingVirus

I'll pay when they implement it whereas now I'd rather spend an extra 15 minutes in my car and save the €3, my little protest at the absurdity of the price of the toll and the fact I can drive 85% of the road with no toll and get creased for driving between Blanch and the N4.

Can't wait for it to come in - 60c to work and 60c back. Though I can see how doing it at every junction is sure to piss some people off. Personally I think the 4 junction idea wasn't a bad one, dropping the price to 70c per toll.

johnos1984 wrote: »

Has everyone forgotten that the toll on the M50 is to use the bridge and not the road itself?

No, but I suppose you think they (the Government or the old crowd) will remove the tolls in 2020 after the thirty years and that'll be that then, a free M50? Hah, not a chance.

As far as the old tax argument goes, we pay motor tax. It'd be great if all our motor tax went specifically on roads but it probably goes into the tax pool. Just like all the water charges most likely won't be spent on water facilities.

kippy

I wonder are there any more concrete plans than those which were mentioned on Newstalk.

This country is getting worse, car tax, petrol/diesel tax, tolls for most M roads, VAT on work done on cars, motoring really is an expensive but sadly necessary habit in this country and the price is only going one way.

shamwari

shamwari wrote: »

And that is exactly what road taxes are for here

What road taxes?

billyboy01

I wonder is this an Irish style of Road Pricing! I also heard it might be used on other Motorways, probably the M7 on down to Cork and M1. 20c today, 80c in a few years! I pity the poor Sod's that have to use these roads to commute to work. 1.45c per litre for Petrol, rising Insurance this year and now this form of road pricing! What next?

helimachoptor

tbh would work out cheaper for me so i have no issue with it.

Alun

Personally I find it a much fairer method of tolling than what happens now where you can travel most of a road for free, but then pay full whack when you cross some arbitrary point on that road. They have toll booths on every entrance and exit on the French tolled motorways for example.

Captain Commie

until someone posts a valid and checkable quote then its all heresay and a waste of time even thinking about it

Bandara

fair system, bring it in

Paparazzo

It's not a fair, or good system. It's a bullshìt system. This is a ring road thats supposed to encourage traffic not to use the city.

billyboy01

I personally avoid using tolled roads and the M50 is not that important to me. So if tolling the use of the M50, delays Motortax, Fuel duty rises and other motoring related taxes. Do it now and charge 50c per junction!

Stheno

I'd pay, commuting with my last job I went from the M1 to the M7 junction everyday, which is about 16km, so if this sort of tolling came in it would probably cost me less.

Current system seems mad to me, went from the M1, to the M7 then the M8 on a trip to Cork recently, and hit all the tolls, but there are only 3 specific points along a couple of hundred km of motorway where you hit them.

shamwari

bluewolf wrote: »

What road taxes?

Look at that little roundy thingy on your windscreen which you pay so much dead money for every year. It's called a tax disk.

billyboy01

Stheno wrote: »

I'd pay, commuting with my last job I went from the M1 to the M7 junction everyday, which is about 16km, so if this sort of tolling came in it would probably cost me less.

Current system seems mad to me, went from the M1, to the M7 then the M8 on a trip to Cork recently, and hit all the tolls, but there are only 3 specific points along a couple of hundred km of motorway where you hit them.

How many junctions do you pass? Also if the charge was to increase over the coming years, which of course it will! It might become quite expensive!

I.S.T.

Hammertime wrote: »

fair system, bring it in

You are being sarcastic, right?

slavetothegrind

it would cost more to process each toll than they could ever make from it.

more stupidity

I.S.T.

Stheno wrote: »

I'd pay, commuting with my last job I went from the M1 to the M7 junction everyday, which is about 16km, so if this sort of tolling came in it would probably cost me less.

Current system seems mad to me, went from the M1, to the M7 then the M8 on a trip to Cork recently, and hit all the tolls, but there are only 3 specific points along a couple of hundred km of motorway where you hit them.

There should be NO TOLL on the M50. It has been paid for many times over. I can understand a toll to pay for a new road but it should be run non-profit and once the road has been paid for the toll should be abolished.

slavetothegrind

IrishSpeedTraps wrote: »

You are being sarcastic, right?

Sure look at the state of his pants ffs:rolleyes:

Stheno

billyboy01 wrote: »

How many junctions do you pass? Also if the charge was to increase over the coming years, which of course it will! It might become quite expensive!

5 (Ballymun, Finglas, Blanch, N4, and coming off at N7) so compared to the €2 I used pay, if it was 20c per junction, it would be half that. Yes it might get more expensive in the future, but that would happen regardless of whether or not the current system is in place or if it changed.

Actually I wonder if there will be a similiar tiered system now where you pay €2 if you have a tag and €3 if you don't?

feelites

this system will be defenitely more fair as somebody living in lucan has to pay everyday goin north and somebody living in blanch didnt ever paid for everyday journey to north

but i see big mess around it as well, there will be sooo many people pissing on that 20c so imagine how their system will be loaded up with unpaid tolls :eek:

Absurdum

I've already paid for it, they can ask me bollix.

billyboy01

Stheno wrote: »

5 (Ballymun, Finglas, Blanch, N4, and coming off at N7) so compared to the €2 I used pay, if it was 20c per junction, it would be half that. Yes it might get more expensive in the future, but that would happen regardless of whether or not the current system is in place or if it changed.

Actually I wonder if there will be a similiar tiered system now where you pay €2 if you have a tag and €3 if you don't?

Fair enough, Such orbital roads should be toll free IMO! Not being a regular M50 user, It's not going to impact on my pocket. But paying to use a publicly paid for road with taxpayers money is just taking the Mick!

seamus

feelites wrote: »

this system will be defenitely more fair as somebody living in lucan has to pay everyday goin north and somebody living in blanch didnt ever paid for everyday journey to north

The current toll is for the bridge, not for the M50. I don't understand how making other users pay for a section of road they don't use (i.e. the bridge) is somehow fairer.

This is going to be a disaster for traffic on the southern parts of the M50. Someone who goes today from the N7 to Cherrywood or otherwise southern route, would have to pay €2.80 a day in tolls. That's nearly €700 per year more on their commute. Who here can afford another €700 per year?

What about those currently paying tolls? Well you've already factored that into your costs. You're not being asked to pay anything more than you're already used to paying. You will continue to use the toll bridge because you've budgeted for it.

All of the people now being asked to pay yet more motoring costs on top of their insurance and petrol will simply start taking the direct routes across the city, and to hell with the extra time.

Now, I don't really give a crap because this won't cost me all that much. I tend to drive in the evenings when traffic on alternative routes is lighter anyway.
But I can guarantee it's going to be a nightmare for anyone currently commuting in and around the Dublin suburban area, and toll revenues will collapse as a result.

stoneill

There is no such thing as road tax.
Motor tax goes to local councils to do whatever they want with the money- road building and maintenance comes from central funds.

TouchingVirus

IrishSpeedTraps wrote: »

There should be NO TOLL on the M50. It has been paid for many times over. I can understand a toll to pay for a new road but it should be run non-profit and once the road has been paid for the toll should be abolished.

How are things over there in ideal-world? Better than bizarro world?

Your stance is mine, I completely agree with you and I avoid tolls like the plague. Stomaching €6 for crossing the westlink twice or even €4 if I got a tag and let them keep "money on file" is a bit much. Just like paying €2.90 each way for the M4 is a complete joke (I avoid it like the plague). It's all made more hilarious by the fact I can drive to Fermoy from the City Centre (220km) and pay one toll - €1.80 - on the M7.

However, I've started to think that the time cost of avoiding the M50 is outweighing the savings. To save €6, I'm spending an extra hour in the car. When you cut it down to €4 is makes a little less sense. And if it's cut down to €1.60 with 20c per toll then it makes practically no sense to avoid the M50 IMO.

I'll still avoid the M4 toll though, it's an incredible price for the length of motorway you get out of it.

If they want more toll users, lower the damn tolls. I'm not alone in my avoidance of the M4, loads of people I know avoid it because it's a complete rip-off. If you want me to use the M50 then lower the price to €1 each way and I'll be sure to use it.

Cabaal

shamwari wrote: »

And that is exactly what road taxes are for here

sigh,
You don't pay road tax
:rolleyes:

You pay MOTOR tax which goes into the general pool and is used towards everything from council works to health care,

opinion guy

johnos1984 wrote: »

Has everyone forgotten that the toll on the M50 is to use the bridge and not the road itself?

NEWSFLASH: Things change!!

billyboy01

If the M50 would be toll free in offpeak times, that would be an easier pill to swallow! Also this is going to increase the price of Goods and Services as the Logistic's company's pass on the cost of tolls to the shops and then on to the consumers! Food for thought as well as your belly!

Absurdum

FFS everyone knows what people mean when they say "road tax", we don't need a procession of pedantic posts about it :rolleyes:

kippy

Cabaal wrote: »

sigh,
You don't pay road tax
:rolleyes:

To be honest and from what I have seen here, thats a pretty irrelevant point (as far as joe soap is concerned)
Whatever it is called is irrelevant. I know people like to be pedantic around here but its distracting from the issue.
It is a cost associated with owning and driving a car on a public road. That cost coupled with costs associated with fuel, VAT on services for your car and insurance all add to the bottom line of owning a car and as such ends up impacting on the net income of many citizens of this country, at a time when many costs (most almost unavoidable) are increasing significantly.

These toll costs will most likely add more to the cost of all goods, such as any cost increases to motoring in general. It should'nt be something we should be accepting so readily while getting sidetracked by pedantics.

Max Power1

Back roads all the way.

I refuse to pay additional tolls on top of motor tax. (even if, as usual, it costs more in petrol to avoid the toll)

TouchingVirus

Absurdum wrote: »

FFS everyone knows what people mean when they say "road tax", we don't need a procession of pedantic posts about it :rolleyes:

No, everyone doesn't know. In fact some people still think that motor tax goes on the roads. When you call it road tax people definitely think it's meant for the roads.

It doesn't. It should be called Tax #135 because it goes into the pot and is up to councils as to where it goes.

Highly Salami

bluewolf wrote: »

What road taxes?

The road tax that was eliminated in the 1980's

billyboy01

Max Power1 wrote: »

Back roads all the way.

I refuse to pay additional tolls on top of motor tax. (even if, as usual, it costs more in petrol to avoid the toll)

Just drive slower, which you have to on back roads with potholes, Cameravans and other stupid drivers and save fuel!

johnos1984

opinion guy wrote: »

NEWSFLASH: Things change!!

I'm sure if the idea works so well they could extend it nationwide so

challengemaster

Absurdum wrote: »

FFS everyone knows what people mean when they say "road tax", we don't need a procession of pedantic posts about it :rolleyes:

Ah we do really, sure, it's only happened in every thread where tax was mentioned anyway. :pac: :rolleyes:

opinion guy

johnos1984 wrote: »

I'm sure if the idea works so well they could extend it nationwide so

Wouldn't surprise me. But to be honest it would only be coming into line with France, Germany, Spain etc


Interestingly - how much would the whole M50 cost - how many junctions are there ?
It might become cheaper to use the tunnel!!

billyboy01

opinion guy wrote: »

Wouldn't surprise me. But to be honest it would only be coming into line with France, Germany, Spain etc

Coming into line with the EU states you mentioned, would involve: No Motortax, VRT and other taxes and levies which we pay! Then by all means toll as many roads as you like! Also French and German dualcarriage ways which have no tolls are what we call Motorways here!

Paparazzo

opinion guy wrote: »

NEWSFLASH: Things change!!

Right mods. Close every discussion on boards. Never debate on anything. Let the government do what they like without question. The sooner we accept that "things change" the better.

Seriously though, I was close to using rolly eyes but I just can't do it.

billyboy01

:rolleyes: There I did it for you!

Seth Brundle

Lets get a few things right in this thread...

Separately, the Government has shelved a report which advocates several new tolling points along the M50 and explores the potential for tolls on other routes.

Minister for Transport Noel Dempsey has said there are no plans soon to make decisions on the report.

The report by the NRA on tolling options is understood to advocate introducing “multipoint” tolling along the M50, potentially between each major interchange. Motorists would be charged the equivalent of the M50 toll if they travelled the full route of the ring-road. They would pay less if they travelled part of it.

The authors, according to sources, say it would be a more equitable approach and yield significantly more money for the exchequer.

The Government’s strategy on infrastructure priorities over the next five years has suggested €200 million could be generated from new tolls and raising existing tolls.

Documents released under the Freedom of Information Act show that officials at the Department of Transport say it would be between one and two years before new tolls came into force. Raising existing toll charges would take seven to eight months. The M50 toll alone is generating about €100 million a year. It is the busiest road in the country, with 100,000 vehicles using it every day.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2011/0108/1224287042562.html

GTE

johnos1984 wrote: »

Has everyone forgotten that the toll on the M50 is to use the bridge and not the road itself?

Also haven't tolls up to now already paid for the road?

Another pain in my back pocket

Yeah, you are right. Its very daft that it is still there but on the up side for me, if it does go ahead is at the moment I use the M50 so I think it would work out cheaper?
M4 to M1?

billyboy01

kbannon wrote: »

Lets get a few things right in this thread...


http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2011/0108/1224287042562.html

Its funny how these big grey steel gantry's appeared on the M50 every 100 metres or so, especially at junctions! Which can be easily rigged with cameras for tolling! Oh its coming to a junction near you, sooner then we think! This is not just an idea for possible roll out in the next two years, its in progress!

coylemj

Even in the long term there is no way they could get away with slapping an arbitrary toll on strips of the M50 as it would rightly be seen as a Dublin tax and could be subject to a legal challenge as it would be a tax on one section of the population based on geography which would probably be struck down as being unconstitutional.

They'd have to toll separate sections of the M6 from Kinnegad to Athlone and similar sections of currently 'free' motorways all over the country like the M9 to Waterford to avoid this and they've probably been advised that implementing this would not be economically viable.

Paparazzo

kbannon wrote: »

Lets get a few things right in this thread...


http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2011/0108/1224287042562.html

I'm still outraged