Problem with Laptop DJing?

UnknownSpecies

Just wanted to start a thread here to get peoples opinions on why laptop DJing appears to be so frowned upon anywhere I seem to look for information. I'm looking to get into DJing just for my own fun, I think it's pretty cool and I love the music, but the only practical option is my laptop at the moment.

However, I mostly see negative reactions to this. Can anybody tell me why this is the case? Of course, I would love to be able to afford vinyl decks and records or cd decks, but I just can't, so is my laptop and a controller good enough to get my skill to a decent level? Thanks for any replies.

Pingu-D

From what i can tell its just the way it is! some vinyl Djs will still frown upon cd Dj's and the likes! some old school heads see laptop Dj-ing as the easy option and dont feel that there is any skill level involved which isn true at all!

was.deevey

Before the advent of CDJ's (Whooo Denon 2000f's) I used to look down on CD jocks (being vinyl only) while many years later coming to my senses and realizing its the workmanship, not the tools. Despite that I completely skipped though the CDJ phenomena and went straight to midi .. LOTS of the big boys are using them on their own.

Laptops / Controllers are here to stay Karma's a b*tch though :P

P.S. Its generally frowned upon to mention the Sync button if you cant at least beatmatch manually to earn your stripes hehe

TURRICAN

thats the exact way i went through it too,totally skipped cds and then onto serato.

there is nothing wrong with digital djing.
some may frown upon it because the sound of bass from a vinyl is hard to match on a big sound system.im sure the rest of the crew here will point out a few other things:D.

if you like it and are happy playing digital well does it really matter if its frowned upon?

how about a members mix from you?;)

Paul1979

Theo Parrish Takes Aim At Laptop DJs

http://www.scionav.com/music/houseparty/index.html#general4,39566141

TURRICAN

cant hear him talking !
somthing wrong with the video

Logical Fallacy

TURRICAN wrote: »

cant hear him talking !
somthing wrong with the video

You gotta turn off that stupid constantly playing radio station that is on that site. Top right corner.

jtsuited

here's a not very well written piece on the subject
here

ironclaw

I went straight to CD's and when I tried using the laptop I actually found it sort of boring. There was nothing to do, like flipping through the CD case or cueing up on the other side.

However, I recently started looking back at digital as I increasingly bought my music online. Theres nothing wrong with laptop Djing in my eyes provided you at the very least use a controller. I've been at one or two gigs and the DJ just used a laptop. I'm sorry, but that screams "I don't have a clue" One gig the DJ used iTunes and saw no problem with it. He loaded up a playlist and let it play using iTunes inbuilt crossfade.

As regards using the Sync button, I don't see the shame in using it. If your good at what you do, you can be far more creative if you don't have to worry about beat matching. Especially if your delving into the world of loops and additional decks. Yes, it takes away from it and I enjoy beat matching manually but not using the sync and beat matching wrong is worse I feel. Regardless, beat match is only really of any benefit in genres that lend themselves to beats (i.e. Not charts) It can be a curse as well, DJ's syncing the charts for example without key lock has given me much amusement in clubs...

Paul1979

ironclaw wrote: »

I went straight to CD's and when I tried using the laptop I actually found it sort of boring. There was nothing to do, like flipping through the CD case or cueing up on the other side.

However, I recently started looking back at digital as I increasingly bought my music online. Theres nothing wrong with laptop Djing in my eyes provided you at the very least use a controller. I've been at one or two gigs and the DJ just used a laptop. I'm sorry, but that screams "I don't have a clue" One gig the DJ used iTunes and saw no problem with it. He loaded up a playlist and let it play using iTunes inbuilt crossfade.

As regards using the Sync button, I don't see the shame in using it. If your good at what you do, you can be far more creative if you don't have to worry about beat matching. Especially if your delving into the world of loops and additional decks. Yes, it takes away from it and I enjoy beat matching manually but not using the sync and beat matching wrong is worse I feel. Regardless, beat match is only really of any benefit in genres that lend themselves to beats (i.e. Not charts) It can be a curse as well, DJ's syncing the charts for example without key lock has given me much amusement in clubs...

watch the video re: what theo says bout this

ironclaw

I'd agree where he says about song selection, but he's making the assumption that all laptop DJ's have no experience in selection. If anything a laptop DJ would have more music with them and hence have a broader selection to choose from.

Good interview all the same.

UnknownSpecies

None of ye seem too negative about it anyway ! I'm only starting out so a member mix is a good bit away anyway :P

I definitely want to use a controller and learn how to beatmatch, don't want to just rely on the sync button. I was just feeling as if it wouldn't be worth starting if people wouldn't take you seriously! Like in the thread here "What controller should I buy?" I asked about a controller, and I got a reply saying "yeah you could be deamau6 with that yoke", not very constructive or reassuring :rolleyes:

was.deevey

some may frown upon it because the sound of bass from a vinyl is hard to match on a big sound system.im sure the rest of the crew here will point out a few other things.

The way some DJ's (both home grown and BIG names) clip a mixer it starts making feck-all difference :P .. I'll take a little less bass over a overdriven muddy distorted one any day.

But in seriousness there is an "Organic" sound that you just cant match with digital....its like comparing a valve Vs solid state amp. There comes a stage though where practicality wins though.

Paul1979

the whole point of the interview is that having your whole collection is not an advantage, vinyl djs have to know their records inside out and only work with what they have in their crate
"a vinyl dj who knows his crate intimately will BURN any laptop DJ":D

ironclaw

dorgasm wrote: »

None of ye seem too negative about it anyway ! I'm only starting out so a member mix is a good bit away anyway :P

I definitely want to use a controller and learn how to beatmatch, don't want to just rely on the sync button. I was just feeling as if it wouldn't be worth starting if people wouldn't take you seriously! Like in the thread here "What controller should I buy?" I asked about a controller, and I got a reply saying "yeah you could be deamau6 with that yoke", not very constructive or reassuring :rolleyes:

It is a split topic and there will never be a consensus. However, going forward 20 years, I think it will all go digital because like floppy disks, CD's and Vinyl will become niche pieces. Look how far USB flash tech has come in 5 years even. Your entire room of a music collection on the size of your thumb.

Seeing as a good controller (And thats another topic) are expensive. I would recommend getting a set of cheap CD decks. Play on them. Learn the skills and when you want to gig, depending on how you want to gig, then maybe invest. I was going to buy an Xponent (€400) but seeing as Pioneer have just released their own, I'm going to wait for them. They are twice as expensive, but they are where I want to be Djing wise.

was.deevey

"a vinyl dj who knows his crate intimately will BURN any laptop DJ"

What about the laptop DJ who knows his tracks intimately and creates remixes on the fly ? .. or what about a vinyl dj who decides he wants to play on serato does he/she instantaniously become crap ?

Sorry couldn't resist.

Paul1979

thats a quote from the interview:D, yeah i see your point, i dont 100% agree with him but i agree with most of what he says...especially regards the "i have my whole collection here at the touch of a button" verses taking the time to get to know your collection, packing your crate well, and trying to make your set work as a whole

id rather see a DJ like Harvey (who with a box of records and a bozak completly destroyed Panorama Bar in the summer) than a laptop DJ who is remixing some track he downloaded of beatport "on the fly"

Chloroplast

well, yes, tell me i have my head up my arse i don't care, but :

ive been a vinyl dj since 1996 and a laptop dj(ableton) the last few years, and i will burn any vinyl ,laptop ,or cdj jock today,any day hands down, i will do it.

medium does not matter, its what's in your head that counts. yes unfortunately there is an influx of noobs after jumping on the bandwagon due to digital being so easy to get to grips with. us true djs will just have to swallow that.

Theo Parrish is a twat and hes just having a rant, all because hes on vinyl, of coarse hes gonna say what he did.


take a leaf out of Dave Clarkes book, hes on serato now, and was vinyl before that. you just have to embrace the technology and move with it rather than fight it, because if you fight it you just fighting a losing battle.

plus most of my favourite tune are only available on digital now, why would i want to deny myself those tunes, why..

TURRICAN

Chloroplast wrote: »

well, yes, tell me i have my head up my arse i don't care, but :

ive been a vinyl dj since 1996 and a laptop dj(ableton) the last few years, and i will burn any vinyl ,laptop ,or cdj jock today,any day hands down, i will do it.

medium does not matter, its what's in your head that counts. yes unfortunately there is an influx of noobs after jumping on the bandwagon due to digital being so easy to get to grips with. us true djs will just have to swallow that.

Theo Parrish is a twat and hes just having a rant, all because hes on vinyl, of coarse hes gonna say what he did.


take a leaf out of Dave Clarkes book, hes on serato now, and was vinyl before that. you just have to embrace the technology and move with it rather than fight it, because if you fight it you just fighting a losing battle.

plus most of my favourite tune are only available on digital now, why would i want to deny myself those tunes, why..

thats fighting talk:pac:
vinyl and digital ...best of both worlds
is clarke using serato control vinyl or internally?

was.deevey

I do agree that at this stage some of the major issues with the typical digital DJs are ....

a) Too much CRAP music available
b) Too much torrenting of sh1te music by guys who think because its new it must be great.

This was of course an issue with vinyl too, but obviously due to cost issues at least it wasn't that easy to fake being at least somewhat a DJ or able to mix.

CD's made the situation bad (but tolerable) .. The Napsters / Torrents etc.. .kinda make almost unbearable at times.

Chloroplast

TURRICAN wrote: »

thats fighting talk:pac:
vinyl and digital ...best of both worlds
is clarke using serato control vinyl or internally?

Indeed Sir,

Hes on a Mac using serato software and the midi controler has 2 jog wheels, not sure exactly what type it is, it could be a Hercules midi controller or something along that type of design.

Paul1979

harvey would BURN you with his vinyl:D

TURRICAN

Chloroplast wrote: »

Indeed Sir,

Hes on a Mac using serato software and the midi controler has 2 jog wheels, not sure exactly what type it is, it could be a Hercules midi controller or something along that type of design.

ah right i thought he might have been using control vinyl.
Didnt think he'd go that route.

Klim

TURRICAN wrote: »

ah right i thought he might have been using control vinyl.
Didnt think he'd go that route.

He was using these when I saw him last year. What are they? They look like those Technics cd players to me. The club has cdj's fitted as standard, so I presume these were his own kit. Mighta been a once off or something.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8ygPfjDGyI

electrogrimey

I don't think anyone has a problem with someone who started on vinyl/CD and MOVED to digital, for the right reasons.

People have problems with DJs that go straight to digital, thereby skipping the process of learning to beatmatch, actually buying music, building up a vinyl collection and love for said music, and putting the money and effort into learning to DJ.

DJs that do none of the above are frowned upon. Equally, DJs that do none of the above generally don't leave their bedroom, as it takes more than a perfect mix done with a sync button to be a DJ.

TURRICAN

Klim wrote: »

He was using these when I saw him last year. What are they? They look like those Technics cd players to me. The club has cdj's fitted as standard, so I presume these were his own kit. Mighta been a once off or something.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8ygPfjDGyI

Yeah thats serato alright and he is using cd control discs.
looks like he is still getting to grips with it too as Dave is usually on fire when djing.:eek:

Klim

TURRICAN wrote: »

Yeah thats serato alright and he is using cd control discs.
looks like he is still getting to grips with it too as Dave is usually on fire when djing.:eek:

To be fair to him, he appeared to be very, erm, euphoric, on the night!!!

Top night though.

leggo

I've had this debate more times than I care to count (not here, though, as far as I can recall).

It's output that matters, only and always.

A DJ using iTunes in a club set will get found out eventually. The same way a producer using Ableton to make ****ty tracks won't be able to do anything with those tracks except put them on Facebook.

The medium getting easier-to-use only means that the required standard to stand-out from the crowd will rise. Those who fight the technology will be left behind because they'll be using time and energy on tasks that take seconds to do with newer advances, and as a result the DJ using newer technology will be able to use this additional time and energy to focus on improving further.

Whatever your goals are, if you're good enough to achieve them, it doesn't matter what you use to get there...you'll get there. And those who aren't, won't. There's no need to look down your nose at, or judge, anyone because if you're right...you'll be right!

electrogrimey

leggo wrote: »

It's output that matters, only and always.

Yep, but this doesn't mean that there's no difference between vinyl and digital. Vinyl forces you to learn aspects of DJing that you miss by digital DJing. Mainly about love and worth of music.

ironclaw

electrogrimey wrote: »

Yep, but this doesn't mean that there's no difference between vinyl and digital. Vinyl forces you to learn aspects of DJing that you miss by digital DJing. Mainly about love and worth of music.

I think CD's teach the same ideas. I learned much about music from the hours spent trailing the shops and burning new CD's.

RMD

I frankly couldn't give a **** what form of equipment the DJ is using to play his set, the only thing I care about once they're playing is how good it is (beatmatching, song selection etc).

I will agree though that there is an awful lot of **** bedroom DJs out there who have no bother not learning beatmatching as about as effective as hitting shuffle on their "dance" genre on itunes. A skilled digital DJ though is just as good as any vinyl or CDJ user, and in some cases better considering they usually have more available right in front of them.

It's slowly going towards digital and in 5 years time I'd easily say it will be the biggest format. To rule it out though is completely useless. To someone considering digital I would advise though 2 cheap CDJs and a cheap 2 chan mixer first before going digital just to get hold of the basics. Once they move onto digital after 6-12 months using CDJs, they'll be ready to go in essence once they learn their programme of choice.

Paul1979

RMD wrote: »

I frankly couldn't give a **** what form of equipment the DJ is using to play his set, the only thing I care about once they're playing is how good it is (beatmatching, song selection etc).

I will agree though that there is an awful lot of **** bedroom DJs out there who have no bother not learning beatmatching as about as effective as hitting shuffle on their "dance" genre on itunes. A skilled digital DJ though is just as good as any vinyl or CDJ user, and in some cases better considering they usually have more available right in front of them.

It's slowly going towards digital and in 5 years time I'd easily say it will be the biggest format. To rule it out though is completely useless. To someone considering digital I would advise though 2 cheap CDJs and a cheap 2 chan mixer first before going digital just to get hold of the basics. Once they move onto digital after 6-12 months using CDJs, they'll be ready to go in essence once they learn their programme of choice.

BULL****, that is the whole problem, and why a lot of people are fed up with digital djs, so u have 150gb of mp3 from beatport? big swinging mickey, that doesnt make better, far from it infact

leggo

electrogrimey wrote: »

Yep, but this doesn't mean that there's no difference between vinyl and digital. Vinyl forces you to learn aspects of DJing that you miss by digital DJing. Mainly about love and worth of music.

I agree that there are many aspects about collecting and mixing vinyl that show a love and dedication to music...as outlined in the link that someone provided.

However, I feel that article was also slanted in that it was written by someone who IS a vinyl DJ and his main point is 'my way is better than your way because...'

I learned to mix on vinyl originally so appreciate the skill involved. There's no doubt that it sounds better and learning to mix on it gives you a more wholesome education (and appreciation) for DJ-ing. But I also wouldn't question the love or dedication of those who've only used Digital. And I'd even go so far as to encourage people these days to start out on digital equipment (unless they particularly WANTED to go the vinyl route).

Paul1979

leggo wrote: »

I agree that there are many aspects about collecting and mixing vinyl that show a love and dedication to music...as outlined in the link that someone provided.

However, I feel that article was also slanted in that it was written by someone who IS a vinyl DJ and his main point is 'my way is better than your way because...'

I learned to mix on vinyl originally so appreciate the skill involved. There's no doubt that it sounds better and learning to mix on it gives you a more wholesome education (and appreciation) for DJ-ing. But I also wouldn't question the love or dedication of those who've only used Digital. And I'd even go so far as to encourage people these days to start out on digital equipment (unless they particularly WANTED to go the vinyl route).

Why??

jtsuited

leggo wrote: »

I agree that there are many aspects about collecting and mixing vinyl that show a love and dedication to music...as outlined in the link that someone provided.

However, I feel that article was also slanted in that it was written by someone who IS a vinyl DJ and his main point is 'my way is better than your way because...'

The person that wrote that article actually started djing in the digital world. And the 'slant' on it is there because it's an opinion piece. I would imagine anyway.

leggo

Paul1979 wrote: »

Why??

Would you recommend a taxi driver start off without a SatNav?

You'll learn if you enjoy DJ-ing through the digital route. There's some easy, free mixing programmes online where you can get the basics. Then you build your equipment from there as you see fit...rather than laying down a few grand on decks for a hobby you mightn't even enjoy.

Paul1979

leggo wrote: »

Would you recommend a taxi driver start off without a SatNav?

You'll learn if you enjoy DJ-ing through the digital route. There's some easy, free mixing programmes online where you can get the basics. Then you build your equipment from there as you see fit...rather than laying down a few grand on decks for a hobby you mightn't even enjoy.

If u are a true lover of music you will never regret purchasing a set of turntables and building a collection that you will have for life

milltown

electrogrimey wrote: »

Yep, but this doesn't mean that there's no difference between vinyl and digital. Vinyl forces you to learn aspects of DJing that you miss by digital DJing. Mainly about love and worth of music.

This I disagree with. I've recanted my sentimental tales of record buying trips in town, and trying to get to Abbey Discs and back on my lunch break from Bolton St. before so I completely understand where the vinyl side is coming from.

But...
As a few have pointed out already, the tech has made it so much easier for anyone with a bit of time and pirated software to crank out a tune that there is little or no investment required, hence the digital market is flooded.
To get a physical record out, though, either the standard needs to be high enough for a label to pick it up, or the producer needs to pony up his own money to get it mastered and pressed, and then try to sell it.
For those reasons I think it's almost more of a hallelujah moment when you find something special on one of the digital download sites (especially beatport).

Spend a few hours trawling beatport, then spend another going through your crate to whittle it down to what you would actually pay money for. Then come back and tell us that we don't love music or appreciate it's worth!

leggo

Paul1979 wrote: »

If u are a true lover of music you will never regret purchasing a set of turntables and building a collection that you will have for life

Give it over with the empty platitudes man. People don't have to enjoy mixing to love music. And it's really, really dumb advice to tell someone who has never mixed to buy a few hundred/thousand worth of kit when they can download free gear, see if they're still interested and improve from there. That kind of financial advice is why so many are on the poverty line today.

"If you love music: prove it. Buy decks." How many are ya?!?

jtsuited

leggo wrote: »

"If you love music: prove it. Buy decks." How many are ya?!?

If you love music, buy records.

ironclaw

leggo wrote: »

Give it over with the empty platitudes man. People don't have to enjoy mixing to love music. And it's really, really dumb advice to tell someone who has never mixed to buy a few hundred/thousand worth of kit when they can download free gear, see if they're still interested and improve from there. That kind of financial advice is why so many are on the poverty line today.

"If you love music: prove it. Buy decks." How many are ya?!?

You can buy second hand CDJ's and vinyl decks for much less than a decent controller these days. You'd also have to consider the cost of the laptop running it and at least a soundcard to truly appreciate the output. All told, starting out it can be cheaper to buy decks. Also someone would have to be daft to put down that sort of money with no experience. Personally I always say as a starting budget spend around €500. Enough to get in but small enough to recoup if not.

leggo

ironclaw wrote: »

You can buy second hand CDJ's and vinyl decks for much less than a decent controller these days. You'd also have to consider the cost of the laptop running it and at least a soundcard to truly appreciate the output. All told, starting out it can be cheaper to buy decks. Also someone would have to be daft to put down that sort of money with no experience. Personally I always say as a starting budget spend around €500. Enough to get in but small enough to recoup if not.

That's a great Stage 2. But there's 'loving music' and there's risking blowing a wad of money on something you may put down after a day and never pick up again. In a time when barely anyone can afford to do so, mind.

Before you even think controllers or buying software, why not download the likes of Mixx. It's basic as **** and won't get you anywhere in the long run...but it's free and will give you the uber-basics on beat-matching, crossfading, putting a set together etc. If you're still playing around with that after two months, THEN think about where you wanna lay down some cash.

Or, I've both our plans trumped, why not go the old school route? (The route I wish I had gone when I got back into DJ-ing) Approach a DJ you enjoy when he's packing up after a set and pick his brain*. Most of us are self-important enough that we'd love a protege to wow with our wisdom and, eventually, it'll likely lead to you getting first-hand experience performing in front of a crowd (where the REAL learning begins). You'll also know if you enjoy mixing (period), enjoy mixing but would rather go the vinyl/CDJ/digital route or if the idea sounded a lot better in your head, having picked up some advice from someone who does it on a regular basis in the process. They'll then be able to point you in the right direction for building your own setup.

*For god's sake, though, don't open with the line "I'm a DJ..." I stop listening as soon as someone says that if the next words out of their mouth aren't "...and I'd like to offer you a job!" My initial reaction if they try to pick my brain is, "Then clearly you know it all already so why are you asking me stupid questions that actually prove you're not a DJ?" But let's not resurrect THAT debate...

Letsgo

I've moved from Cdj's to digital. Digital is a lot more practical for me these days.

I was using Cdj's for years, CDJ 500 mk2's if anyone can remember them. They were really looked down on and as time went on more and more people started using cd's.

The problem with digital is as people have said anyone can download a few songs, dj software and suddenly they're a DJ

I have a bit of vinyl that I've picked up over the years. It's treasured to say the least.
So for me It's about what's played and not what it's played on.

ED E

Paul1979 wrote: »

BULL****, that is the whole problem, and why a lot of people are fed up with digital djs, so u have 150gb of mp3 from beatport? big swinging mickey, that doesnt make better, far from it infact

Though I dont necessarily agree with him, you've taken him up wrong there. Its not the number of tracks, its the functionality, and with the exception of scratching(few controllers do that as well as a CDJ) MIDI can do more. Not that its always used to its full potential, but it can.

There's a reason why Pioneer have just released 2 full digital systems.

RMD

Paul1979 wrote: »

BULL****, that is the whole problem, and why a lot of people are fed up with digital djs, so u have 150gb of mp3 from beatport? big swinging mickey, that doesnt make better, far from it infact

If the DJ is a **** DJ it doesn't matter whether he has 1gb or 150gb it will make no difference. If he knows that 150gb inside out like a vinyl DJ would know 2-3 crates inside out he's just as good. Read my post again, I said it was all down to song selection, beatmatching and the ability to throw a good set together. What medium you use to do that doesn't make you any better or worse of a DJ.

When I said more available right in front of them I meant a lot more than just 150gb of music, that was the furthest thing from my mind. It's a lot easier to control more than 2 decks from a digital point of view, an extremely large effects bank without having to go to an external effects unit and the fact you can focus on one screen instead of constantly having to look around various decks / change records.

Paul1979 wrote: »

Why??

Because the future is digital, it's pretty simple. Personally I'd advise someone to start with some cheap Cdjs and a 2 chan mixer as I mentioned to pick up the basics and then move onto a good 4 chan midi controller with their program of choice. But to advise them to start on digital is just as good considering that's where the DJing world is heading.

You don't sound like a lover of music, you sound someone who's caught in this bollox that just because you use vinyl you're straight away a better DJ.

Paul1979

No I'm a lover of music, have been collecting vinyl since the 80s, the reason I prefer it is because at the end of the day it sounds better and that for me is whats most important

francois

Paul1979 wrote: »

No I'm a lover of music, have been collecting vinyl since the 80s, the reason I prefer it is because at the end of the day it sounds better and that for me is whats most important

Couldn't have put it better myself

hans aus dtschl

I want to get into dj'ing, how do I do it?
"well do you love music?"
yes/no
"well then you probably already have the music/probably shouldn't be looking into dj'ing"


Unfortunately this conversation usually ends with
"well you can use your computer"
as standard.

copeyhagen

im glad i spent years learning how to beat match properly on my kam decks, then my gemini direct drives, then my 1210s, before making any attempt at mixing with software.

any retard can click a sync button on a piece of software and call themselves a dj.

there should be a law that any new dj have to learn to beatmatch on vinyl!!

Android 666

I kick it proper oldskool and only do renditions of techno tunes using my mongolian throat singing technique (great for getting that dirty 303 effect) and a set of spoons. Beatmatching's a bitch though - it's really hard to change for set of spoons over during the crossfade…

Logical Fallacy

copeyhagen wrote: »

there should be a law that any new dj have to learn to beatmatch on vinyl!!

lol, indeed.