Cyclists

Luckycharm

I commute into the centre of Dublin every day - touch wood I have never had an accident- I find the biggest danger on the road I have found are not cars but Cyclists who just fly in and out of cars without looking.
Anyhow on my commute there are 2 small streches which are very narrow where I sometimes us the bike lane for a short stretch (i don't ride up the ass of cyclists in the lane and stay back) - last friday a cyclist pushed up behind and tried to push me off the bike - then would not let me around him to even get out- it did quiet heated anyhow usual militant cyclist you should not be using it etc (OK fair enough). I then follow said cyclist on outside just to see if he stops at next Red light - low and behold the same militant cyclist rides straight through it - does not like it when I point said out.

KamiKazi

That fvcker would be getting a size 12 Sidi up the hole, but that's just me.

I'd stay out of the cycle lane though, dangerous place to be.

goodlad

He dude tried to push you off your bike and the situation only got "heated"?
Ya have some restraint man!

P.C.

KamiKazi wrote: »

I'd stay out of the cycle lane though, dangerous place to be.

It is the one place that the Guards will pull you for being in.

Paparazzo

Luckycharm wrote: »

I commute into the centre of Dublin every day - touch wood I have never had an accident- I find the biggest danger on the road I have found are not cars but Cyclists who just fly in and out of cars without looking.
Anyhow on my commute there are 2 small streches which are very narrow where I sometimes us the bike lane for a short stretch (i don't ride up the ass of cyclists in the lane and stay back) - last friday a cyclist pushed up behind and tried to push me off the bike - then would not let me around him to even get out- it did quiet heated anyhow usual militant cyclist you should not be using it etc (OK fair enough). I then follow said cyclist on outside just to see if he stops at next Red light - low and behold the same militant cyclist rides straight through it - does not like it when I point said out.

I use cycle lanes too. But if it was narrow and I could see cyclist coming up behind me I would merge back into traffic to let them pass. How did he pass you? But anyone that tries to push you off is looking for trouble and is in the wrong no matter what.
Very similar thing happened to me before years ago, was at the top of a bicycle lane at a red light. A cyclist comes up behind me and says I shouldn't be in the cycle lane. I told him the light is red, he can't go anywhere. He said that's not the point. Anyway, light changes and I stop at the next light. Guess who goes straight through? On a seriously busy junction too.

Del2005

You only have to stay out of a cycle lane if it's got a solid line, broken line is OK. But cyclists have right of way in all cycle lanes.

arybvtcw0eolkf

The red grippy cycle lanes are great for doing wheelies when the other surface is wet and slippy, no wheel spin

Interceptor

Its not easy being either a cyclist or a motorcyclist in Dublin. Neither group has been given sufficient attention by the authorities in the last millenium. You see them as wheeled pedestrians, they see you as a small car and neither sees the other as a two-wheeled human.

I give EVERY wheeled human a wide berth because apart from drunk dogs with wheelbarrows full of nitroglycerine, nothing is more likely to accidentally kill you. Stay out of cycle lanes unless its four in the morning and you are practicing wheelies and stoppies, try not to get in anyones way and if you plan on shoving a cyclist into the back of a parked van, please video it for me.

One of the few times I was knocked off a bicycle and the only time that required medical attention was when a bike courier overtook me as I turned right at a junction.

'cptr

carsQhere

As a rule, you should avoid cycle lanes unless you have absolutely no other choice but to use them, and even then you need an escape route.

Interceptor wrote: »

Its not easy being either a cyclist or a motorcyclist in Dublin. Neither group has been given sufficient attention by the authorities in the last millenium.

Wouldn't entirely agree. Cyclists got the National cycle policy framework with approx €10 million Euro earmarked for implementation.

From http://www.transport.ie/pressRelease.aspx?Id=128

* Committed funding in 2009 to projects including –
Completion of Phoenix Park northside cycle loop (€90,000)
Refurbishment of cycle lanes in Dublin City (€800,000)
Safe walking and cycling route to school in Eyries, Co Cork (€257,000)
Cycle parking in Waterford City (€38,000)
Fisheries Field Cycle and Walking route in Galway City (€500,000)
Temporary cycle stands in Galway City (€50,000)
Carrigaline, Co Cork Walking and Cycling route €1,000,000)
PassageWest to Rochestown Co Cork Cycle and walking Route (€922,000)
Castletroy, Co Limerick Cycle route (€170,000)
Provision of cycle shelters in schools and workplaces (€424,000)
Newport to Mulranny, Co Mayo, off-road cycle and walking route (€1,280,000)

Then there's the cycle to work scheme with tax breaks for commuter cyclists and so on. For comparison, here's the very latest figures from the Dept. of Transport for the funding for the promotion of motorcycling over the past decade:

€0.00

Search the National Motorcycle Safety Action Plan for the word "funding" and see what you get.

Sorry gone a bit OT now.

Basically, yeah, stay out of cycle lanes, not a good place to be. All it takes is one car door opening...

Xios

Interceptor wrote: »

One of the few times I was knocked off a bicycle and the only time that required medical attention was when a bike courier overtook me as I turned right at a junction.

You could say he was trying to intercept you :eek:

macnab

you can use a cycle lane with a broken white line

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=64413502

Interceptor

carsQhere wrote: »

Wouldn't entirely agree...

I wouldn't expect you to.

Toodle over to the Cycling forum and have a look at what they say;)

I can only comment on the Galway aspect of that funding and the €550,000 earmarked for cyclists was the provision of a 'walkway and cycle path' through a bog on the edge of the city which is no benefit to commuters or anyone, and the provision of somewhere to lock bicycles.

Fisheries Field Cycle and Walking route in Galway City (€500,000)
Temporary cycle stands in Galway City (€50,000)

Motorcyclists on the other hand got a dedicated section of Bridge Street to park on.

Anyhew, you are right - its gone off topic. DETH 2 SYKLISTS...

'cptr

fenris

The cycle lane is a terrible place to be on a motorbike, no alternate escape option bar forward, a bad surface usually off camber into a kerb and legally just asking for trouble in almost every scenario - even if a car pulls in on top of you as you are undertaking. You are much better off working your way to the front and then claiming your spot, if you don't have time to do that then you are not really being delayed any way!

When ever I was on a bike turning left I always made certain to position such that there was not enough room for someone to squeeze in on the left and cause a problem for me, first come first serve when it comes to position and possession.

Next time someone blocks you way and tells you how to ride ask them to produce their Garda ID or invite then to build a bridge.

KamiKazi

Xios wrote: »

You could say he was trying to intercept you :eek:

lolz

'kkzi

Sounds like the guy you encountered has some aggression issues OP. I would refrain from tarring all cyclists with the same brush though. I cycle regularly and have come across the occassional insane/dangerous motorcyclist, however it hasn't made me think that all motorcyclists are dangerous lunatics, in fact I've found the opposite to be the case, the majority are very safe and courteous. The thing is that safe and courteous road behaviour is a lot less noticeable than agressive and dangerous behaviour, therefore it tends to be the latter that sticks out in our memories.

In the urban environment cyclists and motorcyclists face many of the same challenges and problems, which I feel can foster a sense of solidarity between those on two wheels. For example I once had a woman driving right on my back wheel as I was going up a narrow hill, eventually passing me with inches to spare. When I caught up with her at the next set of lights (as always seems to happen) I found the motorcyclist that had been behind her was giving her an earful on my behalf! I was simultaneously grateful and embarassed!

Sesshoumaru

I always avoid the use of cycle lanes these days. The number one reason being it's not safe for me to use and it's not safe for cyclists to have me in the cycle lane. While 9 out of 10 cyclists are probably nice people, there is always the chance you'll run into that one cyclist with anger management issues, why stress yourself out when it's safer to filter on the outside?

Paparazzo

How are cycle lanes not safe? I think they're far safer than passing on the right, cars do u-turns and right hand turns all the time without looking behing them. You don't get that in the cycle lanes.
It's not dangerous to cyclists unless you try and overtake them, but obviously doing that is probably impossible, never mind stupid.
I'm talking about going pass stationary or walking pace traffic here.

KamiKazi

Paparazzo wrote: »

How are cycle lanes not safe? I think they're far safer than passing on the right, cars do u-turns and right hand turns all the time without looking behing them. You don't get that in the cycle lanes.
It's not dangerous to cyclists unless you try and overtake them, but obviously doing that is probably impossible, never mind stupid.
I'm talking about going pass stationary or walking pace traffic here.

Vehicles aren't expecting something as fast or as big as a motorbike to be coming up the cycle lane. People never check it when pulling in, passengers rarely check the mirror before opening the door in your face. Dangerous place to be, filtering on the right is much safer.

Paparazzo

KamiKazi wrote: »

Vehicles aren't expecting something as fast or as big as a motorbike to be coming up the cycle lane. People never check it when pulling in, passengers rarely check the mirror before opening the door in your face. Dangerous place to be, filtering on the right is much safer.

I think it's the opposite. Cars know bikes will be in the bike lane, but when cars are doing a left hander or u-turn they look ahead and never behind.
Same with pedestrians crossing, they always look left when coming out from between cars. No one expects a motorbike to be passing a line of traffic. Cars pulling out from side roads are waved out in front of you too. I use bicycle lanes in some situations and find it perfectly safe.

KamiKazi

OK you keep using cycle lanes, I'll not be joining you

Paparazzo

KamiKazi wrote: »

OK you keep using cycle lanes, I'll not be joining you

I will! All the situations I pointed out are things I come across on a motorbike almost every day. I never had 1 dangerous situation in my time in bicycle lanes. I know from biker.ie that cars doing u-turns is a fairly common cause of crash. Had one myself passing on the right

Dorsanty

Well the last time I was flat on my back with my bike on top of me was from the un-signaled u-turn with no observations from a van.

These days I stick to bus lanes and my filtering is cut to a minimum, normally between to lanes of traffic going the same direction.

Last time a garda spoke to me was for being in the cycle lane. He let me off but was very clear that it was not the place for me!

Sesshoumaru

Paparazzo wrote: »

I will! All the situations I pointed out are things I come across on a motorbike almost every day. I never had 1 dangerous situation in my time in bicycle lanes. I know from biker.ie that cars doing u-turns is a fairly common cause of crash. Had one myself passing on the right

No one expects a motorbike in a cycle lane because it is illegal for motorbikes to use them. With the exception of cycle lanes marked with dotted lines. A lot of cycle lanes in Ireland also have very poor surface quality, good luck trying to stop when someone opens a car door a few meters in front of you.

But ignoring the safety aspect, it is illegal and the cops will do you for it.

Cuddlesworth

Paparazzo wrote: »

How are cycle lanes not safe? I think they're far safer than passing on the right, cars do u-turns and right hand turns all the time without looking behing them. You don't get that in the cycle lanes.
It's not dangerous to cyclists unless you try and overtake them, but obviously doing that is probably impossible, never mind stupid.
I'm talking about going pass stationary or walking pace traffic here.

I was filtering on the canal last October. Between two lines of traffic neither moving very fast or far. Going slow and loud, it was dark and pedestrians were weaving in between cars to cross the road. Fellow in a Punto saw me coming up in his mirror and either made space for me or was worried about his mirror and moved over. Ped flying up the bus lane wasn't prepared for this and slammed into the car.

Now looking at that accident two things are clear. A car isn't that prepared to cross or come close to the middle line, since that could mean a head on collision with another large vehicle. But pulling into a bike lane doesn't enter there heads as a negative things. They also don't check their inside mirrors on single lane roads. Seriously, they don't. Sit on the inside of cars watching them in their own mirror's. Never a glance.

As for the Ped driver, don't know and don't care. He shouldn't have been there, he shouldn't have been going so fast and he should have recognised that two cars and two bikes side by side means reduced roadspace for all.

Luckycharm

As I said before only would use it in 2 small sections occasionally one is along the canal where it is very narrow with no left turns and traffic is at a standstill - between leeson st bridge and the Barge - filtering there is dangerous and traffic at peak hour does not move. As I said I go slowly so that I can stop if needs be and do not go close to cyclists.
This happened in Rathmines where you turn left and traffic stationery and you are automatically in bike lane- no left turns for 500m and will just go into traffic a good bit beforehand. Said cyclists sped up behind me about 100ms down and started tugging at me - pushing me in - I stopped - he went in front and blocked me- bus was outside so couldn't even get out into traffic. If I was speeding he would not have caught me.

Capt'n Midnight

Del2005 wrote: »

You only have to stay out of a cycle lane if it's got a solid line, broken line istOK. But cyclists have right of way in all cycle lanes.

if you are enetering a lane traffic already in a lane has right of way - nothing special about cyclists there
on any road you have to give cyclists plenty of room when overtaking (cycle lanes put cyclists at a disadvantage here !)

macnab wrote: »

you can use a cycle lane with a broken white line

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=64413502

If it has a broken line then it's a cycle lane in name only. If there is no cycle lane, then you still have to yield to cyclists when you pull in in front of them, you still have to overtake by moving right etc. There are a lot of cycle lanes you can park in too. For all intents and purposes you can treat a dashed cycle lane as not existing, apart from driving continually in it when there is space to your right - but most Irish drivers hog the centre of the road anyway so again no change.

It's a legacy of the PD's

Mopeds and Segways are not allowed use a cycle lane with a solid white line.

Cyclist tried to push you off a bike, that's assault, if happens again talk to the Guards.

Red light - don't forget that an on path cycle lane to the left of a traffic light where the junction is a side road to the left would be ok.

Blowfish

Paparazzo wrote: »

I think it's the opposite. Cars know bikes will be in the bike lane, but when cars are doing a left hander or u-turn they look ahead and never behind.

As a cyclist, I can only wish this were true. Cycle lanes are quite often not safe for cyclists to be in, never mind anyone else.

Aside from that I don't particularly mind motorbikes in the cycle lane as long as they are half sensible about it (well apart from mopeds, they annoy me as they are quite often slower than I am).

davoxx

some cyclists are good .. most could had died had someone else not taken action to avoid their refusal to obey the rules of the road :eek:

And they think they are right, it what gets me .. breaking red lights okay for a cyclist ... not using a cycle lane where on is provided is okay ...

in town nearly crashed into one cycling across a red junction :mad:

in a car, they are much more aggressive .. kicking doors, hitting mirrors ... .. never had an issue on the motor bike though ..

tbh honest gardai really should do something .... at least stop them using bright flashing ligths (which i believe are only for stationary hazards)

seamus

davoxx wrote: »

not using a cycle lane where on is provided is okay ...

Not using a cycle lane/track where the road is safer, is okay and is perfectly legal within the rules of the road. OK, ambiguously legal given that your primary duty of care on the road is to act in such a way that you do not present a danger to yourself or other road users. Most cycle tracks in this country are more dangerous than the road both because of the surface and because of how they interact with the road network.

in town nearly crashed into one cycling across a red junction :mad:

Yeah, nearly had the same thing myself, guy came from my right and nearly t-boned me at a crossroads when he'd had a red light for ages. So these bastards pose as much a danger to other cyclists as they do to everyone else.

in a car, they are much more aggressive .. kicking doors, hitting mirrors ... .. never had an issue on the motor bike though ..

I have never once seen or encountered a cyclist kicking off mirrors or kicking a car door. Heard of it, yeah, but never seen it. It would be my theory that if you manage to get a cyclist to the point that he kicks off a wing mirror or kicks in your car door, then you've done something really, really dangerous to make him that angry.

That said, I was driving down South Circular Road one day and came up behind a scumbag on a bike (wouldn't call him a cyclist), he was swerving all over the place, nearly put himself under my wheels, so I gave a beep and went around him. So he pedalled hell-for-leather to try and catch me. But didn't. So I imagine he might have done something to the car if he'd caught me, but then I wouldn't call him a cyclist, just your run-of-the-mill scumbag.

tbh honest gardai really should do something .... at least stop them using bright flashing ligths (which i believe are only for stationary hazards)

These lights are now legal.

Blowfish

davoxx wrote: »

some cyclists are good .. most could had died had someone else not taken action to avoid their refusal to obey the rules of the road :eek:

Wrong.

davoxx wrote:

And they think they are right, it what gets me .. breaking red lights okay for a cyclist ... not using a cycle lane where on is provided is okay ...

Lights obviously should be obeyed, but Irish cycle lanes are complete crap, plus this shows how much more likely you are to be in a collision due to being on a segregated cycle facility.

davoxx wrote:

in town nearly crashed into one cycling across a red junction :mad:

Yep, they were an idiot for skipping the light.

davoxx wrote:

tbh honest gardai really should do something .... at least stop them using bright flashing ligths (which i believe are only for stationary hazards)

Wrong. One of the most common statements from motorists involved in a collision with either a bicycle or motorbike is that they 'came out of nowhere' or 'I didn't see them'. If a cyclist wants to use flashing lights to make them more visible, why exactly would you want to stop them?

davoxx

wow .. this is heated ...

but some of us should read the rules of the road ...

Cycle Tracks

A cycle track or lane is a reserved part of a roadway for bicycles (not motorcycles) and can be either:

* mandatory, or
* non-mandatory.

A mandatory cycle track is bordered by a continuous white line on the righthand side. It is only for bicycles and motorised wheelchairs, so no other drivers may use it or park in it.

A non-mandatory cycle track has a broken white line on the right-hand side. The cyclist may leave this type of cycle track if:

* they have already indicated they want to change direction,
* a bus is letting passengers on or off at a bus stop located beside the track, or
* a vehicle is parked in the track while loading or unloading (see Section 10).

Mandatory cycle tracks are reserved 24 hours a day, unless an upright information sign at the start of and/or the side of the track shows another period of time.

A cycle track can also be a reserved part of a footpath or other area off the road. A cyclist must use a cycle track if it is provided.

If a cycle track is two-way, meaning bicycles travelling in opposite directions at the same time can use it, cyclists should stay as near as possible to the left-hand side of their track.

You must obey cycle track lights.

davoxx

Blowfish wrote: »

Wrong.
Lights obviously should be obeyed, but Irish cycle lanes are complete crap, plus this shows how much more likely you are to be in a collision due to being on a segregated cycle facility.
Yep, they were an idiot for skipping the light.
Wrong. One of the most common statements from motorists involved in a collision with either a bicycle or motorbike is that they 'came out of nowhere' or 'I didn't see them'. If a cyclist wants to use flashing lights to make them more visible, why exactly would you want to stop them?

You really should stop saying wrong all the time.

The flashy light is normally applied as - flashy = stationary ... ie .. i'm getting closer to it based on length of flash and position.

defeats the purpose if it is moving.

constant light means, it's getting closer to me, as it's light never goes off ...

there was a law for this ... might have been changed since i last looked at it ... reason is if i had a 1 sec flash time, for one second i have no idea where moving object is.

seems the law has changed -- another step backwards in safety

(changed in SI 487 of 2009, since 14 December 2009 it is legal to use flashing front and rear lamps)

Blowfish

And here's the quote about cycle lanes from the National Cycling Policy framework created by minister for transport Noel Dempsey:

15.4 Mandatory Use Regulation

We will revoke the Statutory Instrument that requires cyclists to use cycle tracks where they are provided - Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) Amendment Regulations, S.I. No. 274 (1998). This regulation is unsatisfactory for a number of reasons:

• (i) it is clear that the cycling infrastructure that has been constructed to date is often of a poor standard and is poorly maintained, and cyclists are required to use it;

• (ii) it can force cyclists to be on cycle tracks and (when they are planning on continuing straight ahead) to be on the inside of left-turning vehicles, including Heavy Goods Vehicles;

• (iii) if a group of cyclists (on a weekend cycle for example) is using a road with an off-road cycle-track alongside it, then they are required to use it – which is not practicable.

davoxx

davoxx wrote: »

You really should stop saying wrong all the time.

The flashy light is normally applied as - flashy = stationary ... ie .. i'm getting closer to it based on length of flash and position.

defeats the purpose if it is moving.

constant light means, it's getting closer to me, as it's light never goes off ...

there was a law for this ... might have been changed since i last looked at it ... reason is if i had a 1 sec flash time, for one second i have no idea where moving object is.

seems the law has changed -- another step backwards in safety

(changed in SI 487 of 2009, since 14 December 2009 it is legal to use flashing front and rear lamps)

also all evidence is from other countries that have must better enforcing of rules for cyclists (hence most death by stupidity is avoided) does not really apply here ...(i have seen that actual irish data, and they do not support the conclusion you purport)

davoxx

Blowfish wrote: »

And here's the quote about cycle lanes from the National Cycling Policy framework created by minister for transport Noel Dempsey:

has it been revoked yet?

i like the way that something is broken .. let's not fix it .. just ignore it .. are they going to remove the tracks so? another waste of tax payers money?

seamus

The flashy light is normally applied as - flashy = stationary ... ie .. i'm getting closer to it based on length of flash and position.

I've never heard that flashing == stationary. Works vehicle move all the time with flashing lights. And the length of the flash doesn't change based on the observer's position or speed. Unless it's some super light which can alter the speed of light.

davoxx wrote: »

defeats the purpose if it is moving.

Can you provide evidence to show that flashing lights are more dangerous than solid ones?

there was a law for this ... might have been changed since i last looked at it ... reason is if i had a 1 sec flash time, for one second i have no idea where moving object is.

One second is a very long time for a light to have a flash. I've never see one. Most are of the order of 0.3 seconds. They are also usually visible from at least 50m away, typically 100m, so unless you're travelling at 270km/h, the light will flash again before you're even half the distance between you and the light.

Can you prove that flashing lights are less safe than solid ones?

davoxx

seamus wrote: »

I've never heard that flashing == stationary. Works vehicle move all the time with flashing lights. And the length of the flash doesn't change based on the observer's position or speed. Unless it's some super light which can alter the speed of light.

Can you provide evidence to show that flashing lights are more dangerous than solid ones?
One second is a very long time for a light to have a flash. I've never see one. Most are of the order of 0.3 seconds. They are also usually visible from at least 50m away, typically 100m, so unless you're travelling at 270km/h, the light will flash again before you're even half the distance between you and the light.

Can you prove that flashing lights are less safe than solid ones?

Can you prove otherwise?:rolleyes: has deaths fallen now since flashy lights are allowed?
flash lights (especially front ones) are very distracting to me personally as they change the back ground light and since they can be much brighter than rear ones this can be quite bad.

slow moving vehicles are 'nearly stationary' but more importantly they have constant lights on too ... sure we should all have flashy lights on our cars since it is soo much safer.

i'll dig up the research link over flashy vs constant when i get a chance .. i thought it would have been common sense, but i guess not.


just to say 0.3 of a second is enough time for an accident to happen.

seamus

davoxx wrote: »

Can you prove otherwise?:rolleyes: has deaths fallen now since flashy lights are allowed?

I don't have to prove otherwise. You made the assertion. I didn't say flashing lights were necessarily safer, I just said they're not less safe.

flash lights (especially front ones) are very distracting to me personally as they change the back ground light and since they can be much brighter than rear ones this can be quite bad.

Well, they make the bike stand out. Which is important when you're a minority road user who may not be travelling at the same speed as the rest of the traffic. The same basis on which work vehicles have large flashing lights on the rood.
I understand what you mean by saying that they can screw with the background light - particularly bright lights have the effect of making everything invisible except the light - but in general flashing front lights are rarely powerful enough to overwhelm the light around them.

In any case, if a Garda feels that the lights are not safe, he has every power to stop the cyclist.

i thought it would have been common sense, but i guess not.

Nope. I've never had any difficulty with flashing -v- constant lights.

just to say 0.3 of a second is enough time for an accident to happen.

Agreed. But there's never 0.3 seconds between the cyclist becoming visible and the motorist encountering him. So the light will flash at least once before any collision.

davoxx

seamus wrote: »

Nope. I've never had any difficulty with flashing -v- constant lights.

sorry never meant you personally .. i meant the government ... they same ones that have traffic from right merging into traffic from the left .. and then have some places the other way round while saying in the ROTR that you must give way to traffic on the right while merging (like roundabouts)


now i really have to dig up the research ... it is quite interesting, a lot of work on how the brain analyses data for position and how often it updates that.

Blowfish

davoxx wrote: »

You really should stop saying wrong all the time.

You're probably right, lack of sleep is making me a tad grumpier/more confrontational than normal.

davoxx wrote:

flash lights (especially front ones) are very distracting to me personally as they change the back ground light and since they can be much brighter than rear ones this can be quite bad.

Ultimately, that is precisely the point of flashing lights. Lights are there to make the cyclist visible, if they just fade into the background, they aren't doing their job.

davoxx wrote:

slow moving vehicles are 'nearly stationary' but more importantly they have constant lights on too ... sure we should all have flashy lights on our cars since it is soo much safer.

Cars/motorbikes have the advantage of being able to accomodate high powered, large beamed lights. Since bikes can't, having something somewhat 'distracting' means you get noticed rather than your lights being drowned out.

Either way, personally I tend to cover both bases by having a minimum of one constant and one flashing rear light.

davoxx

drawing attention should not be distracting .. driver should see a light and say .. "i should watch out for that" .. "not what is flashing in front of me? a skip? a road cone? a moving bike? where is it now? in the same place?"

At the end of the day .. the law says okay .. i think it's wrong ... but it is what it is.

Germany still has these as illegal ... but that is because they enforce the law a bit better than us ...

fenris

If Germany is so much better, then why not go there and drive for a bit?

http://www.ryanair.com/ie/cheap-dublin-ireland-frankfurt-hahn-germany-flights

What's next - cyclists in Thailand are awful because they carry assloads of chickens on their bikes and the chckkens are not wearing helmets?

If you go far enough then you will almost always find something to substantiate a point of view but it does tend to make the thread into a meaningless rant against cyclists instead of the very nice local one that we were having where we could play spot the bus/taxi driver, cyclist, veggie, latest Tim Allen alias.

We have covered most of the best ones here:
cyclists are evil, ohh yes they are, ohh no they are not!
cycle lanes are great, ohh yes they are, ohh no they are not!
motorists are evil, ohh yes they are, ohh no they are not!
flashey lights are'nt flashey enough, ohh yes they are, ohh no they are not!

There must be more that we are missing, keep our rants local I say!!!

BostonB

davoxx wrote: »

...
slow moving vehicles are 'nearly stationary' but more importantly they have constant lights on too ... sure we should all have flashy lights on our cars since it is soo much safer....

Indicators.

Emergency vehicles.

davoxx

fenris wrote: »

There must be more that we are missing, keep our rants local I say!!!

my rants are local .. i'm not complaining about German cyclists .. they stop at lights, so i'll think you'll find that this is a local rant

and it's not a full rant at cyclists for flashing lights (they were using them while illegal before the law was changed)
... obviously this rant is at the government that have no idea of how to properly implement anything properly
... and the traffic is no exception, gaybo never sat the driving test for feck sake.
all their crap against young drivers, speed cameras, etc etc ... i've seen the data .. bad road design is the most important factor, then alcohol in fatalities ... not speeding, not the fact that they just passed the test, not the fact that the car was 10 years old with no nct
.... good to see how we now need a pre-course and multiple arbitrary choice question set to get learner license ... .. i can just see the accident rate crashing (excuse the pun)

the only reason flashing lights became legal is because they never enforced it. In germany, you'd be pulled over and a word would be had. same thing if you drive with the foglights on instead of the head lights. what is the accident rate in germany for cyclists? a lot less than ireland based on population (i don't have the link ... but it was on bbc news a while back)

fenris wrote: »

If you go far enough then you will almost always find something to substantiate a point of view but it does tend to make the thread into a meaningless rant against cyclists instead of the very nice local one that we were having where we could play spot the bus/taxi driver, cyclist, veggie, latest Tim Allen alias.

that's not true .. just because somewhere else is having succeeding or failing, does not mean we can not extract useful information from this.
the rest of that statement hurts my head so i think you'll need to post a pic where we can spot a veggie ....:D

fenris wrote: »

If Germany is so much better, then why not go there and drive for a bit?

http://www.ryanair.com/ie/cheap-dublin-ireland-frankfurt-hahn-germany-flights

if german spoke english like we did, and i did not have a house, i'd be gone like a flash ... and you know you'd do the same
and i have driven there .. they are mad, but much much better drivers than ireland ... you should go and then you'll understand the difference :rolleyes:

and they have better beer .... feck it i'll head over again .. thanks for the linky

i think the moral is that there are bad people no matter what means of transport they use .. i think everyone should be made ride a motorbike for a year to truly understand the hazards of driving ...


anyway off to Germany for a road trip!!!

davoxx

BostonB wrote: »

Indicators.

Emergency vehicles.

at night with no other lights? that's against the law, and dangerous

davoxx

fenris wrote: »

What's next - cyclists in Thailand are awful because they carry assloads of chickens on their bikes and the chckkens are not wearing helmets?

that is racist .. those chickens did nothing to you and are tasty when fried ...

BostonB

davoxx wrote: »

at night with no other lights? that's against the law, and dangerous

No U turns. Thats not what you asked. They are on vehicles exactly because they attract your attention. Flashing lights on a bike are not illegal, and do the same thing.

davoxx

BostonB wrote: »

No U turns. Thats not what you asked. They are on vehicles exactly because they attract your attention. Flashing lights on a bike are not illegal, and do the same thing.

so are horns, thats why we we should all paint our vehicles bright yellow and have a air horn all at all times .. can't miss that.

i did not do a u turn, work vehicles are not only lit by flashing lights .. i don't understand your point to be honest.

Paparazzo

Blowfish wrote: »

As a cyclist, I can only wish this were true. Cycle lanes are quite often not safe for cyclists to be in, never mind anyone else.

Aside from that I don't particularly mind motorbikes in the cycle lane as long as they are half sensible about it (well apart from mopeds, they annoy me as they are quite often slower than I am).

I cycle too, so I know how not to annoy cyclists in cycle lanes. Simple really, and I did it before I cycled. Don't tailgate, and don't slow anyone down. If i see a gap ahead that's too narrow because the taxi driver is half in the cycle lane, and there's a cyclist behind me, I always pull back into the traffic. And never stop at the end of a cycle lane when turning left, move up to let cyclists into the bike space at the front of the line of cars. Do this and cyclists won't even notice motorbikes in cycle lanes.

RosieJoe

I think this debate is going to go nowhere! As bikers we all feel that we are the minority of road users, constantly ignored or victimised depending on the situation. The same can be said for the militants on 2 wheels cyclists.

With regards to the the lights, either flashing or constant; well either are better than the Ninja Cyclists that you can encounter on a dark night!

KamiKazi

From http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults/General-news/2011/January/jan1411-bikes-banned-from-bus-lanes-over-other-peoples-crashes2/

Motorcyclists are to be booted out of bus lanes following a rise in cycle collisions, despite not being involved a single one.

A report on a trial of motorcycles sharing bus lanes with cycles in Ealing, London, says: “Whilst there were no direct collisions between a motorcycle and a pedal cycle, it is suggested that there must be a causal link given that the only change between the data-sets was the motorcycle experiment.”

It adds: “The most likely reason for the increase [in cycle collisions] is that cyclists are riding closer to the kerb (because of motorcycles passing fast and close), making them less visible to other road users.”

As a result motorcyclists face being banned from the borough’s bus lanes by summer.