using weights

mumfordandsons

HI,

I have this year done started done some gym work which i feel is helping and was something i was lacking. Also spend bit time working on legs also in gym.

is anyone else doing this?

for sure i feel , think , hope will add some power ect for example climbing ect.

would like to hear other who race opions. does it help ect .

thanks.

Murph100

This is probably one of the most contentious issues you'll find in cycling training, do a search as its been trashed to death on here, but with some great discussion.

Even the training gurus like Friel & Carmichael, who put weight training in their books, always mention that there is no conclusive evidence it is of any benefit to cycling performance.

My 2 Cents is it works for some and does jack sh1t for others, weight training wont do any harm in the off season but from Jan on, if you have limited training time, you're better off spending it on the bike and doing some quality focused workouts, cut out any pissing about spins and make each ride have an actual purpose as opposed to just clocking up hours/mileage on the bike.

BTW the best thing for climbing is plenty of climbing unfortunately

Tenzor07

+1 No substitute for getting out on the bike and powering up the climbs, gym work will help with your general physical toning but I have personally noticed no difference after being in the gym all through the bad weather..

crashoveroid

mumfordandsons wrote: »

HI,

I have this year done started done some gym work which i feel is helping and was something i was lacking. Also spend bit time working on legs also in gym.

is anyone else doing this?

for sure i feel , think , hope will add some power ect for example climbing ect.

would like to hear other who race opions. does it help ect .

thanks.

This my first year having a coach and he has me in the gym 2 nights a week doing core and leg work with 4 to 5 sets with 15reps but all low weights. His whole thing you wont really see the benefit till you stop using them

Lumen

crashoveroid wrote: »

His whole thing you wont really see the benefit till you stop using them

+1

There is more to cycling fast than cycling fast. Gym work is about training to train.

That said, some people seem to get away without it. YMMV.

Murph100

Crash,



You should have had this conversation with Griff on New years day !!! He's had coaches from both sides of the debate, and can point to current TDF coaches with similarly opposing views. He reckons it did nothing at all for him, but a certain Lacy swears by it apparently.

Ah sure, we'll see how you're going this year

Stay away from them cameras, fecking fools game !!!

Harrybelafonte

I asked this question on here awhile back and kept reading about it since. Can't find anything conclusive, but most people tend towards "riding a bike will make you better at riding a bike" for the road anyway. Track, most people argue only those in the upper levels of competition need to do weights. If you check out sprinters workouts, a large amount of it is weight lifting (dead lifts, squats, leg presses) and speed training on track. They only seem to use the road for easy paced recovery rides of 1 - 2 hours.

At the same time I haven't seen anyone saying weights do you any harm.

levitronix

I definitely feel i have a better sprint from doing squats, i know its off season but the guys i train with i leave for dust now, have only started with a powermeter so will see if it progresses, but the piece of road i do my sprints on i hit new top speeds which i couldnt reach last year

Harrybelafonte

Australian track coach says (not the same as weights, but interesting):

"Abs and core, we do two per session - onemainly flexion, one mainly extension. Some have rotational or lateral components, but not isometric holds or pilates mumbo jumbo. If their "core stability" is poor, they wouldn't be able to squat on one leg. Lying on the ground and waving your legs in the air doesn't transfer to the bike. That might annoy the physio's and guru's who make money out of Swiss balls and all that stuff, but I tried it for three years in 20 different sports and it didn't make any difference to performance or injury rates. They get really good at balancing on a ball, but there's no Olympic event for that. It doesn't transfer to the sport. Fix their technical problems in the actual technique (soapbox time is now over)."

Lumen

For "going faster" training there's Friel and Coggan - I don't think anyone needs any more than those two books.

It would be nice to have a similar shortlist of authoritative references dedicated to "structural fitness".

shaungil

Eh is having toned leg guns not the most important aspect of doing weights?

Lumen

shaungil wrote: »

Eh is having toned leg guns not the most important aspect of doing weights?

This is a complete waste of effort if they're buried beneath a forest of hair.

shaungil

Maybe I'll power up the strimmer this year!!!!

Harrybelafonte

Last quote:

"Weight training for enduros - the same strategies apply but maximal strength
and power are less critical. All endurance riding, even the bunch sprint at
the end, is really submaximal. A little bit of gym regularly helps to
maintain the structural integrity of the body, prevent imbalances and
prepare you for crashes, but the real gains come on the road. Racing is the
best training. All our best track enduros race on the road in Europe. They
come together for camps to touch up their track skills, but all of that was
learnt as juniors and in domestic track racing on the way up. For strength
endurance on the bike, ride up hills in the saddle on bigger gears. That was
the only strength work out team pursuit did for the last three years and
they won everything there was to win with a bucket load of world records to
boot. Incidentally, they are also the fastest starters."

Greyspoke

Apparently, weight bearing exercise such as walking, running and weight training improves bone density unlike non-load bearing exercise like cycling and since sooner or later we all fall off then stronger bones must be a good thing. Also, increased muscle/muscle tone results in increased metabolic rate which in turn aids control of body weight so another advantageous by-product of embarking on a weight training programme.
I've found that if I'm doing a lot of leg weights that the legs will feel pretty dead on the bike but after easing down or laying off the weights for several weeks then you really feel the benefits. I certainly don't think it can do any harm so long as you avoid building muscle in places where you don't need it.

mumfordandsons

lads thanks i have read into this a bit myself and as stated by some is bit grey area in regards to information . good to get other views on it.

kumate_champ07

why not climb the hills with heavy wheels and loaded panniers?

lalorm

I also do a lot of weight training. It's had a number of benefits for me.
1. I've built up some muscle on my legs, and upper body. I've noticed increased strength while cycling.
2. Avg speeds are up compared to when I was only doing cardio in the Gym and bike.
3. I've maintained my weight but reduced my body fat as a result of the weights also.
All in all, it's good to add weights to your training program.
Cheers
Mike

templer27

Weights work for me that's for sure.Squats and calf work especially,however I don't race its just fitness for me.I have always used weights,gave them up 2 years ago took up cycling instead.Last year I started again just to see if it would help.It definitely made a huge difference for me.

I think it must be balanced,to much weight trainning and you will feel very heavy legged.Perhaps 2 times a week is enough,I find calf trainning is a big help for me anyway.Light weights 4 sets of 15 reps for calves done very quickly with lots of rest between sets.

Lots of cycling as well is a nice mix.

lalorm

I've included weights as follows...

Mon: Weights (Legs) 1 hour
Tue: Turbo trainer intervals 1 hour
Wed: Weights (Upper body) 1 hour
Thur: Turbo Trainer Intervals 1 hour
Fri: Rest
Sat: Long spin 100km (or 2-3 hours on the Turbo if the weather is bad)
Sunday: Rest

What do people think of this? Is that ok for a pre race season training?

Mike.

cantalach

The way it breaks down at the moment, you're spending up to a third of your time doing weights (and a half of that on upper body work!). I'm not a coach but from anything I've read, that would seem excessive. I'd have thought you'd be better off converting one of those weights sessions into a cycle. If you really do feel you need to bulk up your legs a bit, you could always make the extra cycle what Stuey O'Grady calls a 'strengthie', where you push much bigger gears than you would normally use (but watch the knees! stretch lots!).

petethedrummer

It would appear that Boonen and Cavendish don't use them.

For example, Quick Step's Tom Boonen, who seems to have figured out what it takes to win a sprint, said he doesn't do any specific sprint training.

"It sounds strange but the only time we train on it is in January in the training camp," he said. "We do some turns and a few lead-outs with the team. And that's everything."
http://www.active.com/cycling/Articles/Mark-Cavendishs-Secret-to-Sprint-Training.htm

Though it doesn't explicitly state that he does not do weights. I think it can be inferred as he doesn't even do any specific sprint training.

It is not immediately obvious why Cavendish is able to dominate road sprints so emphatically. Physically, he is powerful but not superhuman; he is strong, yet he never lifts weights or does anything in fact but ride his bike.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/nov/23/mark-cavendish-tour-de-france.

Maybe as a break from cycling weights might be better than doing nothing but would a bit of running or football not do you more good than weights?

petethedrummer

Actually Mick Murphy did weights, so maybe there is something in it.

Lumen

Look, no-one else posted it so I'll have to.

cantalach

Lumen wrote: »

Look, no-one else posted it so I'll have to.

[...]

I'm pretty sure this photo was taken in the Winter of '08/'09 shortly after he announced his come back. Interestingly, from the perspective of this thread, he said after the '09 Tour that he now realised he had way too much muscle mass and had spent too much time in the gym.

Harrybelafonte

I've always wondered how people doing weights at home know how much to start lifting. Considering the pros are squatting over 300kg, you'd wonder firstly how much affect the usual 25kg kit would have and secondly whether your floors could take a 350kg drop.

lalorm

regarding squats, when I started on them, 20-30kg was max. Anything heavier and I started to feel it in my lower back. So that was a core strength weakness. But over time, you can gradually build up and it wasn't long before I got over the 60kg mark for squats. Mostly it was confidence in knowing that I wasn't going to fall over. I'm currently up to 85kg. This is currently my max. Anything heavier and my form isn't correct and I don't want to cause an injury. To reach 100kg is my goal for the start of the season. I've noticed that my quads have a larger mass now and I'm able to go longer on the climbs before my legs start to burn. On the flat, my speed has increased also and overall bodyfat has come down quicker than when I was cycling alone. That said, it's almost time to come out of the gym and back on the road more. But I'll keep going for the next few weeks.

redmaxi

petethedrummer wrote: »

Actually Mick Murphy did weights, so maybe there is something in it.

Repost I know but for anyone not heard it....

abcdggs

weights? YES!

levitronix

cantalach wrote: »

I'm pretty sure this photo was taken in the Winter of '08/'09 shortly after he announced his come back. Interestingly, from the perspective of this thread, he said after the '09 Tour that he now realised he had way too much muscle mass and had spent too much time in the gym.

Think the was from the time him and mattew mc conaughe where about to film broke back mountain 2

petethedrummer

levitronix wrote: »

Think the was from the time him and mattew mc conaughe where about to film broke back mountain 2

Filming was cancelled cos McConnaughey's arms aren't long enough for a reacharound.

kumate_champ07

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

I've always wondered how people doing weights at home know how much to start lifting. Considering the pros are squatting over 300kg, you'd wonder firstly how much affect the usual 25kg kit would have and secondly whether your floors could take a 350kg drop.

which pros are squatting 300kg?

kumate_champ07

abcdggs wrote: »

weights? YES!

Arnie said he got his calves from doing a 'paper boy' route as a boy back in Austria.

petethedrummer

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

which pros are squatting 300kg?

Andy Schleck?

kumate_champ07

petethedrummer wrote: »

Andy Schleck?

100% doubt it, maybe he moved 300kg on the leg press machine a few inches.

the photo is a joke right? mind is tired..

petethedrummer

It is yeah. I don't know what he squats.

Harrybelafonte

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

which pros are squatting 300kg?

Chris Hoy for one

kumate_champ07

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

Chris Hoy for one

appaently his best squat is 227.5kg
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sponsored/sport/sportslife/6414423/Cycling-the-formula-to-Chris-Hoys-success.html

and if its like whats shown in the photo its not a true squat but a partial squat. you can see the high bars in the power cage, that is 1/3- 1/2 of a squat.

Harrybelafonte

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

appaently his best squat is 227.5kg
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sponsored/sport/sportslife/6414423/Cycling-the-formula-to-Chris-Hoys-success.html

and if its like whats shown in the photo its not a true squat but a partial squat. you can see the high bars in the power cage, that is 1/3- 1/2 of a squat.

Apologies, I did my conversion from pounds wrong

levitronix

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

which pros are squatting 300kg?

Maybe a pro bodybuilder on HGH

Harrybelafonte

levitronix wrote: »

Maybe a pro bodybuilder on HGH

Ok, so I got the weight wrong, I don't think it detracts from any points made. I'll do my math better next time.

petethedrummer

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

I don't think it detracts from any points made.

He's a track sprinter. Unless the OP is taking up track sprinting, what is the point in doing weights?

Harrybelafonte

petethedrummer wrote: »

He's a track sprinter. Unless the OP is taking up track sprinting, what is the point in doing weights?

I made my mess up in this post:

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

I've always wondered how people doing weights at home know how much to start lifting. Considering the pros are squatting over 300kg, you'd wonder firstly how much affect the usual 25kg kit would have and secondly whether your floors could take a 350kg drop.

It was a random observation and had nothing directly do to with the OPs question about weights. My previous post specified weight lifting for track rather than road.

petethedrummer

Righto