Why no Irish beers in the local off licence!!

MANUTD99

So I was in Centra this afternoon looking to finish off my Sunday day in the pub with a couple of bottles of guinness extra stout bottles.( I knew they wouldnt have my favourite O Hara's Stout). I was drinking Galway Hooker in the pub and was going down a treat

Well the the only Irish label that was on sale in the local centra was cans of mouldy bulmers even though I was less than 5 minutes walk away from the Guinness Brewery itself. The rest of selection was made up of the usual Bud, Heineken, Miller and a massive selection of Eastern Euro Beer. I bought 4 bottles of Lech and drinking it now. Don't find it too bad and is fairly cheap.

Whats is the opinion on these brands and is there any hope for up and coming Irish beers to make the shelf in local Spars/Centra and overtake the massed produced rubbish. I mean it's is not as if Irish Beer is at a low standard and I'm sure Irish Craft Breweries are finding success but to me thats not the point.

Personally I would love to go to my local Spar and buy some O Hara's Stout

Discuss!!

Mr. Loverman

I would imagine lack of shelf space and demand determines what gets stocked.

If hardly anyone is buying the local Irish beers I can't blame them for not stocking them...

BeerNut

MANUTD99 wrote: »

Bud, Heineken

Brewed in Ireland, so every bit as Irish as Guinness

MANUTD99 wrote: »

is there any hope for up and coming Irish beers to make the shelf in local Spars/Centra and overtake the massed produced rubbish.

Sure. Look at wine. These days you can buy a decent bottle of wine, from a wide selection, in any convenience store. Do you remember what was on those shelves 20 years ago? Crap. What happened? Tastes changed. People went out of their way to find good wine, and as mainstream retailers sought a piece of that action, decent wine became mainstream. It has happened even more recently with coffee: even twelve years ago you'd have been hard pressed to get a decent cup of coffee in Dublin. Now it's everywhere.

Keep drinking the beers you like. Go out of your way to get them, tell other people about them, and eventually you'll find them in more and more places.

MANUTD99

Of course Beernut I know what your saying but I find it frustrating with the lack of quality good value Irish beers in stores. I know they would sell if they were on the shelves.

For example my OH is from Erfurt in Germany. They have a beer called Braugold (not sure of spelling) It tastes like utter sewerage, buts its everywhere in supermarkets, off licences in East Germany. You can't hide from it

BeerNut

MANUTD99 wrote: »

I know they would sell if they were on the shelves.

No you don't. This is beer that would have to be priced the same or higher as the stuff which has mass marketing campaigns behind it, but which gets the same level of marketing as the cheap stuff. Other than the odd novelty bottle, it won't sell without a commitment from the retailer to push it. Mr Heineken Six-Pack won't see it; nor will Ms Whatever's Cheap.

However, things are changing. We've made progress even in the last two or three years. London Pride in Tesco, Hobgoblin in my local Centra. We're getting places. But it'll take time, and it'll take continued purchasing support from the people who want it to happen.

MANUTD99

, Hobgoblin in my local Centra. We're getting places. But it'll take time, and it'll take continued purchasing support from the people who want it to happe

n

That's another point, I was in Super Value on Aston Quay recently and I must admit and take my hat off to them as they have an outstanding selection of beers to choose from but yet I couldnt see many Irish brands. That day in paticular I was looking for Mgraths Irish Red Ale or even O Hara's Ale but didn't see much more than Guinness really. They had beer from China ffs!!!

BeerNut

They have the Clanconnel beers now.

matrim

MANUTD99 wrote: »

That's another point, I was in Super Value on Aston Quay recently and I must admit and take my hat off to them as they have an outstanding selection of beers to choose from but yet I couldnt see many Irish brands. That day in paticular I was looking for Mgraths Irish Red Ale or even O Hara's Ale but didn't see much more than Guinness really. They had beer from China ffs!!!

The only off-licence in city center I've seen with Irish craft beers is the celtic whiskey store on Dawson Street. Otherwise you've to go out of the center to somewhere like redmonds.

There are a couple of places like the Supervalue on Aston Quay and Centra on westland row that have decent selection of beers \ ales.

I would assume that one of the reasons for this is that they get all beer from one distributor and the Irish craft brewers might not go through these distribution centres (i.e. you order directly from the brewer) so they would need to order is separately, which might not be worth the hassle. Someone can correct me on this as it's just a theory I have on why they aren't stocked

MANUTD99

Heres another question.

How has all the Eastern European Lager been easily moved into the local Centra/Spar.

If they could do it why is it not possible for some Irish Breweries to step up into this market.

redlead

Because there is a large population of Eastern Europeans who are buying it. Very few Irish people have ever heard of any of the Irish Beers and they are quite expensive (some of it justafiable) also.

MANUTD99

redlead wrote: »

Because there is a large population of Eastern Europeans who are buying it. Very few Irish people have ever heard of any of the Irish Beers and they are quite expensive (some of it justafiable) also.

Ok accepted.

I bought bottles of 500ml Lech at 2 euro a pop.

Another question? why can't Irish Breweries compete with these prices I mean if the beer is produced here it should be cheaper??

On a recent trip to Barcelona, the local beer Estrella was by far the cheapest and by my accounts the most popular beer in Barcelona!!

Mr. Loverman

MANUTD99 wrote: »

Heres another question.

How has all the Eastern European Lager been easily moved into the local Centra/Spar.

If they could do it why is it not possible for some Irish Breweries to step up into this market.

Eastern European beer is also very good.

Tyskie and Gywice or whatever it's called (jiv-e-its).

MANUTD99

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

Eastern European beer is also very good.

Tyskie and Gywice or whatever it's called (jiv-e-its).

Duely noted. I'm finishing of my last bottle of Lech and its very nice.

If I went to Poland or any other country for example Germany am I gonna see a bigger selection of beers from other countries or am I gonna see high quality drinks from my own back yard.

Why can't Irish Breweries get there own beers into local shops ahead of drinks from other countries.

Sofiztikated

MANUTD99 wrote: »

Ok accepted.

I bought bottles of 500ml Lech at 2 euro a pop.

Another question? why can't Irish Breweries compete with these prices I mean if the beer is produced here it should be cheaper??

On a recent trip to Barcelona, the local beer Estrella was by far the cheapest and by my accounts the most popular beer in Barcelona!!

Seriously?

Wage costs, electricity, water rates, raw materials, taxes, and numerous other reasons are why things produced in this country are dearer than things produced in Eastern Europe.

Estrella is the most popular BECAUSE its the cheapest. And similarly its the cheapest because of the quantities purchased. Look at the population differences, without even taking into regard the other differences.

MANUTD99

Wage costs, electricity, water rates, raw materials, taxes, and numerous other reasons are why things produced in this country are dearer than things produced in Eastern Europe.

So these are the reasons why average beers from abroad are being sold above good quality Irish beers?

I'm not being a smart arse in these posts I just cant understand the lack of support Irish Breweries seem to be getting

Sofiztikated

MANUTD99 wrote: »

So these are the reasons why average beers from abroad are being sold above good quality Irish beers?

I'm not smart arse in these posts I just cant understand the lack of support Irish Breweries seem to be getting

These are part of the reasons why good quality Irish Breweries cannot compete on price with beers from Eastern Europe.

Factor in the fact that LOT of people want beer that'll get them drunk, not for the taste.

And a lot of people don't know what a certain beer is like, so if I'm in the offie, and I see 6 Heineken for €10, or 4 Rogues Irish Lager for a similar price, and I don't know if I like Rogues Irish Lager, well I'll get the Heineken because I know what that's like, and I like it. I might not like the Rogues, and then I'm left with 3 beers that I don't like and a tenner shorter.

And add in the power of advertising. Heineken and Budweiser spend millions on advertising. The names are everywhere. McSorleys Irish Black Lager is not.

(I have no idea if Rogues or McSorleys are any good, I've never seen them never mind tasted them, I've gotten them from a quick google for Irish lagers.)

MANUTD99

I am actually gonna make this a project of mine to get more Irish beers in the local shop.

FFS When I was in Oz they didnt know any other beer apart from VB or Carlton existed in the whole entire world

Sofiztikated

I do apologise if I come across as a snarky **** there, I just read them back, and that was not my intention.

MANUTD99

Sofiztikated wrote: »

I do apologise if I come across as a snarky **** there, I just read them back, and that was not my intention.

Not at all man,,no worries

Technocentral

It is strange that most people are only interested in cheap and rubbish beers, when it comes to food most people don't buy easi singles, chicken and ham roll and pot noodles all the time, it is changing slowly though, when I'm out with friends and they buy coors lite or whatever, I suggest they try Budvar for example and they usually agree it's much better, people are brainwashed by multi million euro ad campaigns and it takes ages for them to convert to proper beer. Personally I try to buy irish craft beers in pubs that have them, in ones that don't Budvar is about the only decent choice widely available.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

matrim

MANUTD99 wrote: »

I am actually gonna make this a project of mine to get more Irish beers in the local shop.

FFS When I was in Oz they didnt know any other beer apart from VB or Carlton existed in the whole entire world

It would probably be easier to convince them if it's an off-license rather than a shop but if the owner \ manager is decent he should at least try to source it for you.

If you do get them to get it in remember to let us know where it is so others can enjoy too

Mr. Loverman

MANUTD99 wrote: »

I'm not being a smart arse in these posts I just cant understand the lack of support Irish Breweries seem to be getting

Lack of demand. Seriously.

I understand you like Irish beers but most people are risk averse and just do whatever the adverts tell them to do.

BeerNut

MANUTD99 wrote: »

FFS When I was in Oz they didnt know any other beer apart from VB or Carlton existed

They're the market leaders, made in big factories by a multinational corporation. You've been asking why shops in Ireland don't normally stock the equivalent of Little Creatures or Coopers. Did you see them much in bottle shops?

MANUTD99

BeerNut wrote: »

They're the market leaders, made in big factories by a multinational corporation. You've been asking why shops in Ireland don't normally stock the equivalent of Little Creatures or Coopers. Did you see them much in bottle shops?

Well actually in SA where I think Coopers is made(I may be wrong where its actually made) it what highly advertised and in Adelaide it was on tap in every pub I was in.

BeerNut

Bad example, maybe. Trying to think of medium-sized independent Australian breweries. Barons? See much of them?

MANUTD99

BeerNut wrote: »

Bad example, maybe. Trying to think of medium-sized independent Australian breweries. Barons? See much of them?

No, I think Carlton, VB and Coopers were the most common I'd seen back then.xxxx too but that was in Queensland and by far the most disgusting of all beers

I just wish there was more Irish variety in local stores is all I'm trying to get across!

BeerNut

MANUTD99 wrote: »

I just wish there was more Irish variety in local stores is all I'm trying to get across!

I think what you're missing is that Bud, Heineken, Guinness and Carlsberg are the equivalents of Carlton, VB and XXXX: all of them are made locally in big factories by multinational corporations and have huge brand dominance.

There are no native Irish breweries with that kind of market clout, and that's why you won't see them in Spar.

MANUTD99

BeerNut wrote: »

I think what you're missing is that Bud, Heineken, Guinness and Carlsberg are the equivalents of Carlton, VB and XXXX: all of them are made locally in big factories by multinational corporations and have huge brand dominance.

There are no native Irish breweries with that kind of market clout, and that's why you won't see them in Spar.

My point is if I can see Koperberg, Tyskie, Karpackie, Lech etc etc in almost every single store its disapointing I cant get some local larger brewed in the Leinister region without going to a "specialist" drink store.

BeerNut

MANUTD99 wrote: »

I cant get some local larger brewed in the Leinister region without going to a "specialist" drink store.

You can. It's called Carlsberg (Dublin), Budweiser (Kilkenny) and Satzenbrau (Dundalk).

MANUTD99

BeerNut wrote: »

You can. It's called Carlsberg (Dublin), Budweiser (Kilkenny) and Satzenbrau (Dundalk).

ciaran76

MANUTD99 wrote: »

So I was in Centra this afternoon looking to finish off my Sunday day in the pub with a couple of bottles of guinness extra stout bottles.( I knew they wouldnt have my favourite O Hara's Stout). I was drinking Galway Hooker in the pub and was going down a treat

I see in the other thread you were on Parkgate st.
I know its a bit of a walk but not too bad of a walk up to Drinkstore on Manor street in Stoneybatter. They have plenty of Irish beers for your selection.

blueshed

in my local centra i can get 6 polish lagers now and 3 other eastern european lagers=nearly all are very nice imo.
can also get 3 or 4 of the cheapo lagers like dutch gold n tuborg
they also stock the run of the mill buds-millers-guinness etc.

i asked would/could they try and get in some chimay-o haras-and some english ales and was told that they only get 5 cases of beer minimum order from there supplier

i dont belive them as they must 20plus different beers on the shelve so they must have a massive stock in there store room.

most shops only stock what there going to sell and make a profit on.

what i do now is call to places that have what i want and buy a few btls every week and build up a little collection so when i want a nice ale/lager its in the fridge/shed for me.

the beer revolu

blueshed wrote: »

i asked would/could they try and get in some chimay-o haras-and some english ales and was told that they only get 5 cases of beer minimum order from there supplier

i dont belive them as they must 20plus different beers on the shelve so they must have a massive stock in there store room.

It would be typical to have a 5 case minimum order from a supplier but that would mean a total of five cases - not five cases of each beer.

I guess that their argument would be that they mightn't want five cases at a time from a specialist supplier. Galling when you think that they probably buy cheap mainstream stuff by the pallet from big distributors (I used to work for a small specialist beer importer/distributor and this minimum order was always a problem for me).

Five case minimum order is normal. It costs the distribuor a fair bit to get get the stock delivered. It's not worth the bother if the cost of delivery is more than the case of beer your delivering.

rubadub

[QUOTE=MANUTD99;69972795 Bud, Heineken,![/QUOTE]

BeerNut wrote: »

Brewed in Ireland, so every bit as Irish as Guinness

AFAIK it is only kegs of heineken brewed here now, all the cans and bottles are from holland. I remember years back others were brewed here.

redlead wrote: »

Because there is a large population of Eastern Europeans who are buying it.

And Irish, I buy it, I notice Eastern Europeans buying quite a bit of Irish whiskey in on offie I go to.

You should ask them for it, same with pubs otherwise they will not know. To make a real point go into the pub and ask for a bottle of O'Haras and act surprised if they do not have it, list another, then another -then eventually ask "have you any Irish beers at all";)

I am always going into pubs and while mates are ordering I am on my tippytoes looking into the fridges, then the barman often asks "what are you looking for", I might say "decent bottled beer" , then sort of indirectly make my point by then scanning the taps and having to settle for a guinness. What drives me mad lately is loads will have erdinger NA, but no other erdingers, I usually make a point of this too, even if I know they have only NA I will ask for a bottle of the normal one or cristal.

BeerNut

rubadub wrote: »

AFAIK it is only kegs of heineken brewed here now, all the cans and bottles are from holland.

Yep, you're right. I withdraw my sarky comment and offer the following in its place:

rubadub wrote: »

having to settle for a guinness.

You don't have to, you know. Other pubs are available.

rubadub

BeerNut wrote: »

You don't have to, you know. Other pubs are available.

Problem is the mates have already ordered! -otherwise I would love to walk out. Mentioned this idea as a good protest on price before, would work with choice too -a big team of lads enter the pub acting like they are gagging for drink and food, be all enthusiastic and then walk out once you hear the price of a pint (or in this case the lack of choice) -it would only work really well with the owner or manager though.

I really don't get this nonsense of "it won't sell" etc, there is a thread in after hours with publicans posting defending their pathetic choice of beers. Nobody is asking for them to have it stocked to the ceiling, just get a few bottles in to see what does sell. I have often drank pubs dry of particular bottles -but that was only 4-6 bottles, even if it doesn't sell drink it yourself mr publican.

I was in a hotel in carlow recently and was delighted to see O'Haras on draught, we were chatting to the barmen, my mates later told me he was slagging me when I was in the toilet saying "jaysus, nobody drinks that muck, dunno how he manages it".

BeerNut

rubadub wrote: »

it would only work really well with the owner or manager though.

I can't think of a single owner or bar manager who would take notice of something like that. The only place consumers can make a real impact is on the figures at the end of the month.

rubadub wrote: »

I really don't get this nonsense of "it won't sell" etc, there is a thread in after hours with publicans posting defending their pathetic choice of beers.

On the one hand you can't really blame them for being risk averse, but on the other it's ignorance and laziness. They are used to other people doing the sales job: advertising, promotions etc. All they have to do is put the stuff in the fridge or on tap and away it goes. You won't get that with (hate the term, but) "specialty beers". It's true: they won't sell. It's great that the new Irish craft brewers have paid attention to point-of-sale material. I think it's absolutely vital in an Irish pub if you can't do mass-market advertising and expect your beer to sell.

And there's a lot of ignorance: the management don't drink these beers and don't know anything about them. We had someone here recently who didn't know that the BBE date on his Chimay Bleu could be safely ignored, and that it generally gets better with age. Decent beer is a strange and confusing world for Irish publicans. Which is all fine if you're doing well and making enough money on the macros. But if you're not...

... it's obviously the supermarkets' fault :rolleyes:

the beer revolu

BeerNut wrote: »

Decent beer is a strange and confusing world for Irish publicans. Which is all fine if you're doing well and making enough money on the macros. But if you're not...

... it's obviously the supermarkets' fault :rolleyes:

No it's the smoking ban's fault!

oh, hang on it's the recession's fault..... either way it's the government's fault:D

the beer revolu

Deleted User wrote: »

Five case minimum order is normal. It costs the distribuor a fair bit to get get the stock delivered. It's not worth the bother if the cost of delivery is more than the case of beer your delivering.

No body's arguing otherwise.
Unfortunately, it can be a barrier to retailers trying new beers from new suppliers, though.

BeerNut

the beer revolu wrote: »

No it's the smoking ban's fault!

oh, hang on it's the recession's fault..... either way it's the government's fault:D

It's the supermarket argument that really gets me. I mean, when did pubs ever compete with supermarkets on price? I just can't see any sense or logic to it, but I've never seen anyone pulled up on it.

yesterday's Irish Times wrote:

VFI president Gerry Mellett said the removal of restrictions on below-cost selling had broken the back of the industry. “They’re selling at prices that we can never compete with,” he said

Ah yes, unlike the Great Supermarkets vs Pubs Price War of 1996. Sure I remember it well.
:mad:

ciaran76

My mates and I now regulary drink in Portherhouse/The Bull and Castle and Mulligans since other pubs dont have a choice like these pubs.

I stopped going to the local with my mates as it pissed me off what I could buy and told my mates I am not going there as I dont like the beer in there.
You wouldnt force someone to eat in a restuarant they didnt like so same applies to beer imo.

I recently went to my local and was like a 2 year old tippy toeing to look to see what was in the fridges and scanning up and down the bar to see what they had. Settled with Guinness again and changed to Smithwicks as Guinness was too cold. I know I wont be going back there in a hurry.

MANUTD99

Well I passed on a email to the store in question. I thought it was Centra but in actually fact it's Londis.

I just told them I was disappointed with the lack of creativity of beers and the extra lack of Irish ones.

We'll see what they say if they get back to me and if they take my suggestions on board.

It will be interesting to see if I push it enough would I eventually see O Hara's on the shelf. I doubt it though.

matrim

ciaran76 wrote: »

Mulligans.

Does Mulligans have much of a choice? I was in there not too long about but wasn't drinking on the day. I noticed either Erdinger or Paulaner bottles behind the bar (can't remember now) but the taps looked like the normal choices of Heineken\Carlsberg\Guinness etc

BeerNut

matrim wrote: »

Does Mulligans have much of a choice?

If you go to the correct Mulligan's it does

matrim

BeerNut wrote: »

If you go to the correct Mulligan's it does

Here's me thinking it was the other Mulligans

ciaran76

matrim wrote: »

Does Mulligans have much of a choice? I was in there not too long about but wasn't drinking on the day. I noticed either Erdinger or Paulaner bottles behind the bar (can't remember now) but the taps looked like the normal choices of Heineken\Carlsberg\Guinness etc

Just to make sure we on about the same Pub I am talking about Mulligan's of Stoneybatter.

They dont have Heineken\Carlsberg\Guinness taps so we probaly talking about different pubs?

the beer revolu

BeerNut wrote: »

It's the supermarket argument that really gets me. I mean, when did pubs ever compete with supermarkets on price? I just can't see any sense or logic to it, but I've never seen anyone pulled up on it.

Ah yes, unlike the Great Supermarkets vs Pubs Price War of 1996. Sure I remember it well.
:mad:

There certainly is an argument that the supermarkets are killing off smaller off licences but publicans making that argument is a bit like struggling restaurants claiming that their problem is that the supermarkets are selling steaks too cheap!

Bigcheeze

BeerNut wrote: »

It's the supermarket argument that really gets me. I mean, when did pubs ever compete with supermarkets on price? I just can't see any sense or logic to it, but I've never seen anyone pulled up on it.

Ah yes, unlike the Great Supermarkets vs Pubs Price War of 1996. Sure I remember it well.
:mad:

No they've never competed on price, nor should they as they are different products/services in the same way muffins in Starbucks don't directly compete with muffins in Tesco.

However, the pubs need there to be some reasonable relationship between the price of an off-sale and on-sale and the gap in price has widened massively over the last 10-15 years.

I don't think the price of a can of lager has actually increased since the early nineties. I think a typical can of lager was around £1 then (i.e. €1.27)

So the real price of canned beer has actually fallen while pub beer prices have outstripped the rate of inflation.

During this time there has been great consolidation in the brewing industry and production has moved to massive "super-breweries" where the cost of production is driven down to the minimum.

While it can be argued that lower production costs should benefit the pubs too, many of their costs are related to property, staff, rates, energy which have all grown far beyond the rate of inflation in last 10-15 years.

There is also anecdotal evidence that breweries apply much higher prices to publicans in this jurisdiction than say the UK - (Avivia stadium dispute with Diageo has been cited).

The pub industry industry has to take a lot of the blame for their own situation. If a small corner pub can change hands for >€5m then clearly it's an industry riding on a bubble, and bubbles always burst. Most of them still don't take price competition or value for money seriously and very few of them offer any sort of innovation or differentiation in the product or service they offer......Pubs like Bull and Castle, Porterhouse and L Mulligan Grocer being the exception.

BeerNut

Bigcheeze wrote: »

However, the pubs need there to be some reasonable relationship between the price of an off-sale and on-sale

Thing is, they don't "need" this. They want this, but it's not the same thing. Look at how cinema has survived the development of home entertainment by offering things home entertainment can't do. And when home entertainment raised its game (TV, colour TV, stereo TV, surround sound) cinema has always had something else to offer. Pubs don't seem to feel the need to react in any way to real-life market dynamics other than to complain.

Bigcheeze wrote: »

While it can be argued that lower production costs should benefit the pubs too

Ha! That benefit goes to the brewery shareholders, not to the publican or the drinker. It also gives the brewery some serious muscle when it comes to dealing with competition.

Bigcheeze wrote: »

There is also anecdotal evidence that breweries apply much higher prices to publicans in this jurisdiction than say the UK

Well of course. Because a pub licence also allowed the printing of money until quite recently. Everyone wants a go on the cash cow. The unmovable wholesale price of Guinness is apparently why Ireland doesn't have JD Wetherspoon.