Brian Cowen, Sean Fitzpatrick, Golf and the Gardai

hotmail.com

Taoiseach Brian Cowen had two previously undisclosed contacts with former Anglo Irish Bank Chairman Sean FitzPatrick in the months prior to the introduction of the bank guarantee.
In a statement to the Sunday Times, Mr Cowen confirmed he had dinner and played golf with Mr FitzPatrick at Druids Glen in Co Wicklow in July 2008.
However, Mr Cowen said that the affairs of Anglo Irish Bank were not discussed during the day.
Mr Cowen also confirmed that he took a call from Mr FitzPatrick concerning Anglo Irish Bank shares four months earlier when he was still Minister for Finance.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0109/anglo.html

Fine Gael's Justice spokesperson Alan Shatter, has called for the Taoiseach to be interviewed by the Gardai.

They played golf for four hours apparently, why?

Dirk Gently

hotmail.com wrote: »

They played golf for four hours apparently, why?

because puppet politicians and the corrupt business men who pull their strings have always had a cosy relationship in this crony capitalist republic of ours.

Tarquin1970

hotmail.com wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0109/anglo.html

They played golf for four hours apparently, why?

Four hours isn't bad to get around the Glen.

mgmt

Tarquin1970 wrote: »

Four hours isn't bad to get around the Glen.

Garda driver was used to ferry them around the course.

EricPraline

Sure what would they have to discuss in July 2008? Presumably they talked about the weather and the prospects of the Offaly senior hurling team.

Months of planning and backroom work by Anglo – in close consultation with the Financial Regulator – eventually led to the bank placing a 10 per cent stake held by Quinn with 10 customers of the bank using loans from the bank. However, the controversial July 2008 transaction – which is now the subject of investigations by the Garda and the Office of the Director of Corporate Enforcement – left Quinn deeply unhappy.

ilovesleep

So Sean Fitzpatrick bought Brian Cowen. My God! Why is Sean Fitzpatprick not locked up?

KerranJast

ilovesleep wrote: »

So Sean Fitzpatrick bought Brian Cowen. My God! Why is Sean Fitzpatprick not locked up?

Because he probably hasn't done anything illegal? And before someone jumps I'm with Bernie Madoff example he was running an illegal Ponzi (pyramid) scheme.

Liam Byrne

KerranJast wrote: »

Because he probably hasn't done anything illegal? And before someone jumps I'm with Bernie Madoff example he was running an illegal Ponzi (pyramid) scheme.

That "probably" caveat is the problem....

Any more info on whether the "loans to buy bank shares" fiasco was illegal, or has the government even bothered to follow up on it?

Cork boy 55

Brian Cowen plays sports?

Raging_Ninja

mgmt wrote: »

Garda driver was used to ferry them around the course.

Garda 'drivers' are bodyguards and are supposed to stay with the their principle at all times.

The man played a round of golf with one of the guys who ran Anglo Irish Bank into the ground. That doesn't mean anything and doesn't necessarily mean anything about the personality or ability of Brian Cowen.

Christ, I was once at a staff party and met a guy who a few months later went and murdered somebody. Am I responsible for or tainted by his later actions, or does it say anything about me?

hotmail.com

Nobody is going to believe anything Cowen says about these meetings, no matter he says.

I wonder will many FF TDs, hoping to succeed Cowen, come out to defend him.

GSF

Raging_Ninja wrote: »

I was once at a staff party and met a guy who a few months later went and murdered somebody. Am I responsible for his behaviour?

Depends whether you discussed the crime at your meeting or not.

Raging_Ninja

GSF wrote: »

Depends whether you discussed the crime at your meeting or not.

Most definitely not. Didn't converse as much as exchange pleasantries.

GSF

Raging_Ninja wrote: »

Most definitely not. Didn't converse as much as exchange pleasantries.

and you believe that Cowen & Fitzpatrick played golf & had dinner and never discussed Anglo's problems? Maybe they just engaged in pleasantries for 6 hours.

Liam Byrne

Raging_Ninja wrote: »

Garda 'drivers' are bodyguards and are supposed to stay with the their principle at all times.

The man played a round of golf with one of the guys who ran Anglo Irish Bank into the ground. That doesn't mean anything and doesn't necessarily mean anything about the personality or ability of Brian Cowen.

Christ, I was once at a staff party and met a guy who a few months later went and murdered somebody. Am I responsible for or tainted by his later actions, or does it say anything about me?

Did you get him off the hook and were you heard shouting the equivalent of "we're not f**king letting Anglo fail!" ?

If not, your example is a long way off.

patwicklow

I worked in druids glen for 6 years, Seanie a member there and apart from all the bad talk about him i do have to say he was a sound guy in person and all his family. we had any one that was famous even hollywood stars come through the house. and cowen has played golf there alot.even when seanie stepped down as chairman and drumm took over we done the big event in a massive marquee on the course and that was some party millionaires/billionaires, the car park was full of top of the range 100k-200k cars was great to look at all these cars, and i used to say to myself were the feck has all this money come from.I knew in my hearth and soul back in 2006 that the bubble had burst when a good few of the staff at druids were made redundant including myself the good times were over.

Pherekydes

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

Brian Cowen plays sports?

Golf is not sport!

Raging_Ninja wrote: »

The man played a round of golf with one of the guys who ran Anglo Irish Bank into the ground.

The then Minister of Defence played a round of Golf with the guy who ran Anglo into the ground and it doesn't make you suspicious?

20Cent

Cowen played golf with Neil Armstrong and didn't mention the moon once.
When are the Gardai going to move on these criminals who have hijacked our country?
The FF backbenchers, the greens and the everyone else who can needs to remove these fools now.

later12

The people I feel most sorry for in relation to this story are Fianna Fáil activists. Those people work very hard and voluntarily for the party, go out in wind and rain selling tickets and canvassing and fundraising and attending meetings, for what? An unpopular and isolated party leader that is stupid enough to associate with one of the most toxic figures in the history of the state, in fact to play golf with him, and a host of ministers and TDs who are happy to jump ship as soon as they get the feeling that they won't be tolerated anymore. I'm not sure how much longer those grassroots people will want to continue to put up with that, and I don't particularly blame them.

Fitzerb

Tarquin1970 wrote: »

Four hours isn't bad to get around the Glen.

Anybody know how they got did on the 5th hole. Its a Bastard with the water.

Fitzerb

20Cent wrote: »

Cowen played golf with Neil Armstrong and didn't mention the moon once.
When are the Gardai going to move on these criminals who have hijacked our country?
The FF backbenchers, the greens and the everyone else who can needs to remove these fools now.

WHAT !!!!! Its now against the law to play golf.

I am in big trouble.

As the greens,,,,,, I thought they were a bit undercut for the uphill putts

Liam Byrne

later10 wrote: »

The people I feel most sorry for in relation to this story are Fianna Fáil activists.

Why do you feel sorry for them ?

If it were a family member who had no option but to be associated with those in FF who do this sort of thing, then fair enough - even if they disowned the individual they'd still be linked to them.

But FF have had Haughey, Ahern and now Cowen at the top, so if the penny hasn't yet dropped with volunteers that they're collecting for an organisation which - although maybe not "to the core" - is rotten at the top, and has been for years, then they deserve no sympathy whatsoever.

They're members - and volunteers - by choice.

later12

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Why do you feel sorry for them ?
...FF have had Haughey, Ahern and now Cowen at the top, so if the penny hasn't yet dropped with volunteers that they're collecting for an organisation which - although maybe not "to the core" - is rotten at the top, and has been for years, then they deserve no sympathy whatsoever.

Perhaps they are optimists. Or they feel that Fianna Fáil actually deliver a lot in their areas. Or they have never personally seen party corruption. Brown envelopes are, quite rightly, seen to be a problem higher up the political chain in all parties. I have seen activists working very hard for the party, up before dawn putting up posters, engaged in fundraising and so on, for little thanks. And when stories like this emerge it is this group of volunteers whose efforts I feel sorry for. Simple as. I don't believe I really have to justify that to you, I'm not asking you to change your opinion of the party and have no interest in encouraging you do to so in the slightest.

AlekSmart

The then Minister of Defence played a round of Golf with the guy who ran Anglo into the ground and it doesn't make you suspicious?

And,I`ll have yiz know.....that`s not a crime in this State either !

theroad

later10 wrote: »

Or they have never personally seen party corruption. Brown envelopes are, quite rightly, seen to be a problem higher up the political chain in all parties.

That's simply wilfully naive. Corruption in politics is par for the course:), from top to bottom. It's just that the stakes are smaller at the local level.

later12

theroad wrote: »

That's simply wilfully naive. Corruption in politics is par for the course:), from top to bottom. It's just that the stakes are smaller at the local level.

Activists are typically not exposed to corruption. There is generally little to gain in engaging in corruption with someone who puts up posters in the evenings. I'm not talking about councillors or other elected politicians.

Liam Byrne

later10 wrote: »

Perhaps they are optimists. Or they feel that Fianna Fáil actually deliver a lot in their areas. Or they have never personally seen party corruption. Brown envelopes are, quite rightly, seen to be a problem higher up the political chain in all parties. I have seen activists working very hard for the party, up before dawn putting up posters, engaged in fundraising and so on, for little thanks. And when stories like this emerge it is this group of volunteers whose efforts I feel sorry for. Simple as. I don't believe I really have to justify that to you, I'm not asking you to change your opinion of the party and have no interest in encouraging you do to so in the slightest.

I would have commended that post were it not for the inclusion of the caveat.

You don't have to "personally" witness Callelly or Ahern in order to know that they've had dodgy finances.

later12

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I would have commended that post were it not for the inclusion of the caveat.

You don't have to "personally" witness Callelly or Ahern in order to know that they've had dodgy finances.

You're like a broken record. The point remains.

Bosco boy

Who signed who's card and was the score correct! I hear they are a couple of bandits!

theroad

later10 wrote: »

Activists are typically not exposed to corruption.

I disagree. Activists have a very clear idea of how politics works in this country.

later12

theroad wrote: »

I disagree. Activists have a very clear idea of how politics works in this country.

Yeah, so do lots of people. They have a very clear idea of how politics works. It doesn't mean they're generally a party to political corruption in any way.

Liam Byrne

later10 wrote: »

You're like a broken record. The point remains.

The point that they haven't "personally" witnessed it but they know well that it's going on......fair enough.

So they choose to overlook / tacitly condone corruption.

Therefore, as I said, I have no sympathy for them.

later12

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Therefore, as I said, I have no sympathy for them.

OK...Nobody asked you for sympathy, who cares?

Liam Byrne

later10 wrote: »

OK...Nobody asked you for sympathy, who cares?

Well I obviously also can't understand why anyone neutral would have, for the same reasons.

But this thread is about Cowen & Fitzpatrick, not volunteers, so let's not deflect from this latest sickening controversy that includes the names Anglo & FF.

later12

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Well I obviously also can't understand why anyone neutral would have, for the same reasons.

Right. And I suppose anyone who voted Fianna Fail tacitly condoned or condones corruption as well? Or is it just the activists?

Rubik.

KerranJast wrote: »

Because he probably hasn't done anything illegal? And before someone jumps I'm with Bernie Madoff example he was running an illegal Ponzi (pyramid) scheme.

The so called "golden circle" transactions could amount to market manipulation, which is illegal and could result in a very big fine and/or up to 10 years in prison. Other Company laws that may have been broken include insider trading, false accounting and concealment of an offence. Since he was arrested under Criminal Justice Act, fraud is another possibility.

Laminations

later10 wrote: »

Right. And I suppose anyone who voted Fianna Fail tacitly condoned or condones corruption as well? Or is it just the activists?

Not quite, but anyone who votes for them next time does tacitly condone corruption yes. You may have been unaware of the corruption before 2007 but after all thats come out in the intervening years if you vote for them inspite of this, you are overlooking it. Volunteers volunteer. If they choose to volunteer for a corrupt rotten economy-wrecking party then they do so knowingly and quite obviously willingly. Its like tattooing yourself with a swastika in an attempt to revive the original meaning of the symbol - why bother after it has been corrupted so much and reflects very badly on you.

At this stage if you stay with FF, you are a traitor. Set up a new party with the original ideals if you desire to revive them.

It is beyond belief that Cowen played a round of golf with Fitzpatrick without them discussing Anglos troubles. The timings of these calls and meetings also coincide with other decisions that were made in Anglo. Why didn't Cowen disclose all meetings he had wth Fitzpatrick ages ago? Even if nothing was discussed and they just silently licked each others balls for 4 hours, it is completely inappropriate for top politicians to be meeting socially with big businessmen and bankers. Cosy, crony capitalism.

sligopark

later10 wrote: »

Right. And I suppose anyone who voted Fianna Fail tacitly condoned or condones corruption as well? Or is it just the activists?

unfortunately one could say this or state that politics is corrupt - the fact remains that FF ministers and TDs removed all say from the cumainn and so removed the same input from the ordinary FF activist, then ignored the irish public and thrwe aside the needs and wishes of the ordianry citizen on the street in favour of their own interests and those of their elite buddies

Liam Byrne

later10 wrote: »

Right. And I suppose anyone who voted Fianna Fail tacitly condoned or condones corruption as well? Or is it just the activists?

Well depending on when it dawned on them (Haughey, Ahern or now) they obviously don't object to it from then on.

juuge

hotmail.com wrote: »

Nobody is going to believe anything Cowen says about these meetings, no matter he says.

I wonder will many FF TDs, hoping to succeed Cowen, come out to defend him.

John Moloney the aptly titled Minister for Mental Health has already defended Cowen on RTE's news at one. They walk amongst us!

Fitzerb

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Well I obviously also can't understand why anyone neutral would have, for the same reasons.

But this thread is about Cowen & Fitzpatrick, not volunteers, so let's not deflect from this latest sickening controversy that includes the names Anglo & FF.

And I thought this thread was about to people playing a game of golf and a lot of conspiracy theorists getting their jolly’s from it.
So tell me Liam, what they did they talk about. Perhaps Seanie told him that in two months’ time his bank would be broke and could he slip him a few quid. Or perhaps he named the golden ten to him and told him not to say a word, or even better they planned the switch of the money from Permanent TSB and picked the date.
You are just forgetting one little think, The Bank Regulator knew all the above, the only problem was he never officially told the Government.
Or maybe he was looking for the names of the people who put up posters for FF to see if he could get them to transfer accounts to Anglo
Did we not have the FG fund raiser in the K Club of July this year with some “dodgy people on the tee box” Wasn’t O'Flynn Construction, one of the country's most indebted property firms, who recently transferred debts approaching €1bn to the National Asset Management Agency playing with the good people from FG.
You really should try and see the full picture Liam before you make you get ill from dreaming up the conspiracy theories

Fitzerb

Laminations wrote: »

Not quite, but anyone who votes for them next time does tacitly condone corruption yes. You may have been unaware of the corruption before 2007 but after all thats come out in the intervening years if you vote for them inspite of this, you are overlooking it. Volunteers volunteer. If they choose to volunteer for a corrupt rotten economy-wrecking party then they do so knowingly and quite obviously willingly. Its like tattooing yourself with a swastika in an attempt to revive the original meaning of the symbol - why bother after it has been corrupted so much and reflects very badly on you.

At this stage if you stay with FF, you are a traitor. Set up a new party with the original ideals if you desire to revive them.

It is beyond belief that Cowen played a round of golf with Fitzpatrick without them discussing Anglos troubles. The timings of these calls and meetings also coincide with other decisions that were made in Anglo. Why didn't Cowen disclose all meetings he had wth Fitzpatrick ages ago? Even if nothing was discussed and they just silently licked each others balls for 4 hours, it is completely inappropriate for top politicians to be meeting socially with big businessmen and bankers. Cosy, crony capitalism.

They absolutely were not licking each other’s balls for 4 hours on the golf course. It’s a two shot penalty to touch your playing partner’s ball during the round

Fitzerb

Laminations wrote: »

it is completely inappropriate for top politicians to be meeting socially with big businessmen and bankers. Cosy, crony capitalism.

And you views on FG play golf ing with O'Flynn Construction, who transferred debts approaching €1bn to the National Asset Management Agency.
??????

sligopark

Fitzerb wrote: »

They absolutely were not licking each other’s balls for 4 hours on the golf course.

How exactly do you know they weren't? Do you trust these particular three people to return proper scores of their shots never mind penalties?

This is a proper forum - please provide evidence they were not licking one another's balls for 4 hours upon a golf course please!

Fitzerb

sligopark wrote: »

How exactly do you know they weren't? Do you trust these particular three people to return proper scores of their shots never mind penalties?

This is a proper forum - please provide evidence they were not licking one another's balls for 4 hours upon a golf course please!

My evidence is 100% solid. Neither of them have any balls... Sure bhoy isnt that the problem

jmayo

KerranJast wrote: »

Because he probably hasn't done anything illegal? And before someone jumps I'm with Bernie Madoff example he was running an illegal Ponzi (pyramid) scheme.

A lot of people would now reckon that Anglo (biggest loss maker in 2009 worldwide) was indeed a ponzi scheme. :rolleyes:

patwicklow wrote: »

I worked in druids glen for 6 years, Seanie a member there and apart from all the bad talk about him i do have to say he was a sound guy in person and all his family. we had any one that was famous even hollywood stars come through the house. and cowen has played golf there alot.even when seanie stepped down as chairman and drumm took over we done the big event in a massive marquee on the course and that was some party millionaires/billionaires, the car park was full of top of the range 100k-200k cars was great to look at all these cars, and i used to say to myself were the feck has all this money come from.I knew in my hearth and soul back in 2006 that the bubble had burst when a good few of the staff at druids were made redundant including myself the good times were over.

Just think that your taxes and your kid's taxes are going to be helping pay for all the flashy trashy behaviour you witnesses. :rolleyes:

later10 wrote: »

The people I feel most sorry for in relation to this story are Fianna Fáil activists. Those people work very hard and voluntarily for the party, go out in wind and rain selling tickets and canvassing and fundraising and attending meetings, for what? An unpopular and isolated party leader that is stupid enough to associate with one of the most toxic figures in the history of the state, in fact to play golf with him, and a host of ministers and TDs who are happy to jump ship as soon as they get the feeling that they won't be tolerated anymore. I'm not sure how much longer those grassroots people will want to continue to put up with that, and I don't particularly blame them.

ff activists over the last 30 years are the ones that helped these people get into the positions of power, that allowed them do the sh** that now has this country in the state it is in.

These politicans did not exist wholly in isolation, who helped them get elected, who collected for them at church gates, who hoisted them shoul;der high at election counts ?

And don't give us the sh** that they did not know what they were up to. :mad:
ff were shown to be corrupt under haughey, then there was burke, lawlor and then we had all the revelations about p flynn, b flynn, fahy, and the actual leader ahern.
Yet these poor activists you now claim were hoodwinked.
BS

If I recall correctly at time of last election you canvassed for ff candidate.
Why not go ask him why he voted for bertie as leader and subsequently why he voted for biffo, then ask him why he voted for him motions of confidence ?
Then ask yourself how come you still reckon he has bright future in politics.

I am tired of this sh** now eminating either claiming politicans had no choice but to support the inept unethical often corrupt leaders or that grassroot activists knew nothing. :mad:

later10 wrote: »

Right. And I suppose anyone who voted Fianna Fail tacitly condoned or condones corruption as well? Or is it just the activists?

Yes they did.
If you voted for ff at last General Election you were voting for a party whose leader had a very questionable financial history he could not adequately explain and who had promoted to high office a known corrupt theive, one ray bruke.
And yes it was first mooted back in the 1970s what bruke was up to and it led to a jounrlists having to leave this country due to said politican wrecking his career.

Sir Oxman

There is feck all new about this except the 'very honourable' (according to our distinguishless media who have been complicit in keeping shtum about **** like this and worse) Mr Cowen is not very honourable at all.

In fact the man is a liar, a charlatan and the complete opposite of what the Irish nation should have as the man in charge. Even in the best of times...

The big story is why it has taken so long, despite barefaced lies by 'the most honourable Brian Cowen' as dubbed by the media, and notice that he is always mentioned as this by the likes of Sheehan and various Spindo hacks - when the dogs in the street knew he had meetings with the likes of Fitzpatrick at the height of the crash.
Nothing was discussed, bar their swing. If you believe that I've a site in Ringsend worth half a billion to sell you.

Mugs.
That's us.
****ing mugs.

sligopark

lucozader

i don't believe him

Sir Oxman

jmayo wrote: »

ff activists over the last 30 years are the ones that helped these people get into the positions of power, that allowed them do the sh** that now has this country in the state it is in.

These politicans did not exist wholly in isolation, who helped them get elected, who collected for them at church gates, who hoisted them shoul;der high at election counts ?

To quote.

This needs to be said and spread.
They are complicit. The troops are as guilty.
No amount of bullshine can forgive them - I don't and I never will.
If I find one owns a shop, I won't shop there.
The best pub in my locale has a huge lit up picture 'feature' with Ahern B outside the Dail. I don't drink there because of this.
Shun them.
They are worth less than the **** on your shoe.

Shea O'Meara

Fitzerb wrote: »

And I thought this thread was about to people playing a game of golf and a lot of conspiracy theorists getting their jolly’s from it.
So tell me Liam, what they did they talk about. Perhaps Seanie told him that in two months’ time his bank would be broke and could he slip him a few quid. Or perhaps he named the golden ten to him and told him not to say a word, or even better they planned the switch of the money from Permanent TSB and picked the date.
You are just forgetting one little think, The Bank Regulator knew all the above, the only problem was he never officially told the Government.
Or maybe he was looking for the names of the people who put up posters for FF to see if he could get them to transfer accounts to Anglo
Did we not have the FG fund raiser in the K Club of July this year with some “dodgy people on the tee box” Wasn’t O'Flynn Construction, one of the country's most indebted property firms, who recently transferred debts approaching €1bn to the National Asset Management Agency playing with the good people from FG.
You really should try and see the full picture Liam before you make you get ill from dreaming up the conspiracy theories

There is no need for conspiracy theories.
The facts say it all. We may never have confirmation of what was discussed, okay.
Do you not think he was the last person Cowen should be cosying up to at that time, even if just for appearances?
If seeking a contract from even local government there are strict rules. Each tender put forward is reviewed, given equal time. Any connection or family relation to a councilor or council employee must be noted as to avoid talk of nepotism and/or playing favourites.
Now, think of arguably the biggest and long reaching decisions ever undertaken by the state, the whole banking issue. Then put Cowen and Fitzpatrick on a golf course and only reveal years after the fact.
Is this not suspicious or in the least wrong to you?

I await the bog standard FFail, FG do the same Labour are satanist, probably response.