Agonizing Last Words From Someone Who Couldn't Take Any More Of Life

Paully D

http://gizmodo.com/5726667/the-agonizing-last-words-of-bill-zeller

I just seen this on another forum and decided to post it on here as it's very powerful stuff. Be warned it's very dark.

Remember that reaching out to a friend/family member etc can make a big difference.

KeithM89_old

It 230 in the morning - theres no way im reading all that.
Summary anyone??

Darlughda

starbelgrade wrote: »

Oooh... sorreeey.. I didn't know the Humour Police were in town tonight.

Yeah well was about time you were locked up.

epgc3fyqirnbsx

Darlughda wrote: »

Yeah well was about time you were locked up.

with sexy results

yoshytoshy

Tough on his family to have that on the internet I'd say ,on top of the grief and guilt.

starbelgrade

Darlughda wrote: »

Yeah well was about time you were locked up.

Oooh, spank me Officer.

I've been a very naughty boy.

Ghandee

Ffs, after reading that whole script I know how the poor bloke felt!


looks like these are now my last words too!

thanks a lot OP!

PS, is the immersion heater turned off?

policarp

starbelgrade wrote: »

Too long, died reading.

I'm very sorry for your troubles.

starbelgrade

policarp wrote: »

I'm very sorry for your troubles.

Ah, sure it's grand, I'm only dead.

Hardly worth worrying about.

danniemcq

KeithM89 wrote: »

It 230 in the morning - theres no way im reading all that.
Summary anyone??

gifted programmer abused as child couldn't escape his past anymore. Blames family (he's right they seem assholes) takes life.

actually a very interesting read.

fonecrusher1

FFS its friday night (yeah yeah i know its actually saturday morning) im not reading that sh!t. DEPRESSING.

mikom

Gucky wrote: »

PS, is the immertion heater turned off?

Is that what Mrs immertion uses to heat her water?

Cheap Thrills!

It's immersion!! PAH !!

Anyway for the ADHD amongst us wat does it all mean?

(in 4 words) :cool:

Cheap Thrills!

Darlughda wrote: »

Not funny. Starbelgrade.

it is funny, I tried to read it and it hurt my face.

Ghandee

mikom wrote: »

Is that what Mrs immertion uses to heat her water?

Cheap Thrills! wrote: »

It's immersion!! PAH !!

Anyway for the ADHD amongst us wat does it all mean?

(in 4 words) :cool:

You try spelling it after half a litre bottle of Jim Beam, and 8x cans of graffenwalder!

RMD

Paully D wrote: »

Remember that reaching out to a friend/family member etc can make a big difference.

Few people seem to realise this. I'm not going to go on some big rant but the common perception for depression seems to be "Man up and get on with life". In some cases this is through, I've it before and dealt with people like this who weren't mentally ill and had no reason to be depressed, but there is cases where people have proper reasons for depression or are mentally ill (not the sick twisted type, whereby the brain isn't properly functioning) and giving them this bull**** line of "just get on with life" wont do them any good.

mud

I am so blown away by this.

I will never try to punish people with the experiences I've had but this has certainly struck a chord.

Big-up to my buddy F . . . I read your suicide note which was 7 words long but I reckon yours would have read a hell of a lot like this one had you let yourself write it.

Sisko

yoshytoshy wrote: »

Tough on his family to have that on the internet I'd say ,on top of the grief and guilt.

Seems like his fundamentalist Christian family are largely to blame, I've no sympathy for them.

yoshytoshy

Sisko wrote: »

Seems like his fundamentalist Christian family are largely to blame, I've no sympathy for them.

I commented without reading the whole thing ,can't say I think suicide is something thats justified though.

dubtom

Sadly,if he'd have showed his letter to any professional they'd have been able to help him. The fact that he told no one his secret caused his problems.
What a waste.

abouttobebanned

Some people seem to have the ability of separating their real life personas from their internet ones. Starbelgrade I presume is one of those people. I say this because I'm pretty sure he's not the dickhead that his reply to the OP makes him out to be.

I can't do it myself, I may have a username, (with a very humourous and controversial back story actually) but I stand by everything I say - this is who I actually am. Pretending to be someone else for the sake of a cheap laugh or hollow thanks, would just be too much effort for me. I know after hours is the home of irreverence but it also, unfortunately, happens to be the hall with the biggest audience. And a story like this deserves to be read by as large an audience as possible.

I wish we didn't live in a world where the only things we don't joke about are the things that have hurt us. But hey, we do.

Lust4Life

Posted by Abouttobebanned:
I wish we didn't live in a world where the only things we don't joke about are the things that have hurt us. But hey,we do.

When faced with the option of either laughing or crying, I think we fare better if we choose to laugh. If we chose to cry, there is always the fear that we would never stop the tears from flowing.

lopppy

abouttobebanned wrote: »

Some people seem to have the ability of separating their real life personas from their internet ones. Starbelgrade I presume is one of those people. I say this because I'm pretty sure he's not the dickhead that his reply to the OP makes him out to be.

I can't do it myself, I may have a username, (with a very humourous and controversial back story actually) but I stand by everything I say - this is who I actually am. Pretending to be someone else for the sake of a cheap laugh or hollow thanks, would just be too much effort for me. I know after hours is the home of irreverence but it also, unfortunately, happens to be the hall with the biggest audience. And a story like this deserves to be read by as large an audience as possible.

I wish we didn't live in a world where the only things we don't joke about are the things that have hurt us. But hey, we do.

Couldn't agree more, I'm normally the most cynical non-emotional person ever but I was actually frozen after reading that and then I come back and read the replys, people trying to sound funny or radical by making jokes about a really sensitive topic, there's some things I'll never understand.

Tar.Aldarion

oh god drama llama in here.

stoneill

Bill Zeller had a traumatic childhood and the spectre of which followed him through his entire life. Very sad that he could not find solace with anyone, could not find counselling, very sad indeed. He is one of many.
There are thousands of young people in Ireland right now who are on that very knife edge, contemplating the worst. Unfortunately they may not have the resources or eloquence to be able to express their innermost fears as well as Bill Zeller. These people need help and don't know how to ask for it. There are some small organisation dedicated to helping that desperately need funds.

If this thread has struck a chord with anyone, I suggest you do what you can to help out Pieta House.

Jesus Wept

I've told different people a lot of things, but I've never told anyone about what happened to me, ever, for obvious reasons. It took me a while to realize that no matter how close you are to someone or how much they claim to love you, people simply cannot keep secrets. I learned this a few years ago when I thought I was gay and told people. The more harmful the secret, the juicier the gossip and the more likely you are to be betrayed. People don't care about their word or what they've promised, they just do whatever the fuck they want and justify it later. It feels incredibly lonely to realize you can never share something with someone and have it be between just the two of you

People say suicide is selfish. I think it's selfish to ask people to continue living painful and miserable lives, just so you possibly won't feel sad for a week or two. Suicide may be a permanent solution to a temporary problem, but it's also a permanent solution to a ~23 year-old problem that grows more intense and overwhelming every day.

Some people are just dealt bad hands in this life. I know many people have it worse than I do, and maybe I'm just not a strong person, but I really did try to deal with this. I've tried to deal with this every day for the last 23 years and I just can't fucking take it anymore.

I often wonder what life must be like for other people. People who can feel the love from others and give it back unadulterated, people who can experience sex as an intimate and joyous experience, people who can experience the colors and happenings of this world without constant misery. I wonder who I'd be if things had been different or if I were a stronger person. It sounds pretty great.

Some true shit.

Rest peacefully.

ctrl-alt-delete

My money is on Justin Hawkins,
I've never trusted a man who can wear leather catsuits!

Another roadie from the Darkness bites the dust.

On a serious note I hope he has found some peace, and long may he rest in it.

TheZohanS

In keeping with his wishes the letter in it's entirety:

Bill Zeller

I have the urge to declare my sanity and justify my actions, but I assume I'll never be able to convince anyone that this was the right decision. Maybe it's true that anyone who does this is insane by definition, but I can at least explain my reasoning. I considered not writing any of this because of how personal it is, but I like tying up loose ends and don't want people to wonder why I did this. Since I've never spoken to anyone about what happened to me, people would likely draw the wrong conclusions.
My first memories as a child are of being raped, repeatedly. This has affected every aspect of my life. This darkness, which is the only way I can describe it, has followed me like a fog, but at times intensified and overwhelmed me, usually triggered by a distinct situation. In kindergarten I couldn't use the bathroom and would stand petrified whenever I needed to, which started a trend of awkward and unexplained social behavior. The damage that was done to my body still prevents me from using the bathroom normally, but now it's less of a physical impediment than a daily reminder of what was done to me.
This darkness followed me as I grew up. I remember spending hours playing with legos, having my world consist of me and a box of cold, plastic blocks. Just waiting for everything to end. It's the same thing I do now, but instead of legos it's surfing the web or reading or listening to a baseball game. Most of my life has been spent feeling dead inside, waiting for my body to catch up.
At times growing up I would feel inconsolable rage, but I never connected this to what happened until puberty. I was able to keep the darkness at bay for a few hours at a time by doing things that required intense concentration, but it would always come back. Programming appealed to me for this reason. I was never particularly fond of computers or mathematically inclined, but the temporary peace it would provide was like a drug. But the darkness always returned and built up something like a tolerance, because programming has become less and less of a refuge.
The darkness is with me nearly every time I wake up. I feel like a grime is covering me. I feel like I'm trapped in a contimated body that no amount of washing will clean. Whenever I think about what happened I feel manic and itchy and can't concentrate on anything else. It manifests itself in hours of eating or staying up for days at a time or sleeping for sixteen hours straight or week long programming binges or constantly going to the gym. I'm exhausted from feeling like this every hour of every day.
Three to four nights a week I have nightmares about what happened. It makes me avoid sleep and constantly tired, because sleeping with what feels like hours of nightmares is not restful. I wake up sweaty and furious. I'm reminded every morning of what was done to me and the control it has over my life.
I've never been able to stop thinking about what happened to me and this hampered my social interactions. I would be angry and lost in thought and then be interrupted by someone saying "Hi" or making small talk, unable to understand why I seemed cold and distant. I walked around, viewing the outside world from a distant portal behind my eyes, unable to perform normal human niceties. I wondered what it would be like to take to other people without what happened constantly on my mind, and I wondered if other people had similar experiences that they were better able to mask.
Alcohol was also something that let me escape the darkness. It would always find me later, though, and it was always angry that I managed to escape and it made me pay. Many of the irresponsible things I did were the result of the darkness. Obviously I'm responsible for every decision and action, including this one, but there are reasons why things happen the way they do.
Alcohol and other drugs provided a way to ignore the realities of my situation. It was easy to spend the night drinking and forget that I had no future to look forward to. I never liked what alcohol did to me, but it was better than facing my existence honestly. I haven't touched alcohol or any other drug in over seven months (and no drugs or alcohol will be involved when I do this) and this has forced me to evaluate my life in an honest and clear way. There's no future here. The darkness will always be with me.
I used to think if I solved some problem or achieved some goal, maybe he would leave. It was comforting to identify tangible issues as the source of my problems instead of something that I'll never be able to change. I thought that if I got into to a good college, or a good grad school, or lost weight, or went to the gym nearly every day for a year, or created programs that millions of people used, or spent a summer or California or New York or published papers that I was proud of, then maybe I would feel some peace and not be constantly haunted and unhappy. But nothing I did made a dent in how depressed I was on a daily basis and nothing was in any way fulfilling. I'm not sure why I ever thought that would change anything.
I didn't realize how deep a hold he had on me and my life until my first relationship. I stupidly assumed that no matter how the darkness affected me personally, my romantic relationships would somehow be separated and protected. Growing up I viewed my future relationships as a possible escape from this thing that haunts me every day, but I began to realize how entangled it was with every aspect of my life and how it is never going to release me. Instead of being an escape, relationships and romantic contact with other people only intensified everything about him that I couldn't stand. I will never be able to have a relationship in which he is not the focus, affecting every aspect of my romantic interactions.
Relationships always started out fine and I'd be able to ignore him for a few weeks. But as we got closer emotionally the darkness would return and every night it'd be me, her and the darkness in a black and gruesome threesome. He would surround me and penetrate me and the more we did the more intense it became. It made me hate being touched, because as long as we were separated I could view her like an outsider viewing something good and kind and untainted. Once we touched, the darkness would envelope her too and take her over and the evil inside me would surround her. I always felt like I was infecting anyone I was with.
Relationships didn't work. No one I dated was the right match, and I thought that maybe if I found the right person it would overwhelm him. Part of me knew that finding the right person wouldn't help, so I became interested in girls who obviously had no interest in me. For a while I thought I was gay. I convinced myself that it wasn't the darkness at all, but rather my orientation, because this would give me control over why things didn't feel "right". The fact that the darkness affected sexual matters most intensely made this idea make some sense and I convinced myself of this for a number of years, starting in college after my first relationship ended. I told people I was gay (at Trinity, not at Princeton), even though I wasn't attracted to men and kept finding myself interested in girls. Because if being gay wasn't the answer, then what was? People thought I was avoiding my orientation, but I was actually avoiding the truth, which is that while I'm straight, I will never be content with anyone. I know now that the darkness will never leave.
Last spring I met someone who was unlike anyone else I'd ever met. Someone who showed me just how well two people could get along and how much I could care about another human being. Someone I know I could be with and love for the rest of my life, if I weren't so ****ed up. Amazingly, she liked me. She liked the shell of the man the darkness had left behind. But it didn't matter because I couldn't be alone with her. It was never just the two of us, it was always the three of us: her, me and the darkness. The closer we got, the more intensely I'd feel the darkness, like some evil mirror of my emotions. All the closeness we had and I loved was complemented by agony that I couldn't stand, from him. I realized that I would never be able to give her, or anyone, all of me or only me. She could never have me without the darkness and evil inside me. I could never have just her, without the darkness being a part of all of our interactions. I will never be able to be at peace or content or in a healthy relationship. I realized the futility of the romantic part of my life. If I had never met her, I would have realized this as soon as I met someone else who I meshed similarly well with. It's likely that things wouldn't have worked out with her and we would have broken up (with our relationship ending, like the majority of relationships do) even if I didn't have this problem, since we only dated for a short time. But I will face exactly the same problems with the darkness with anyone else. Despite my hopes, love and compatability is not enough. Nothing is enough. There's no way I can fix this or even push the darkness down far enough to make a relationship or any type of intimacy feasible.
So I watched as things fell apart between us. I had put an explicit time limit on our relationship, since I knew it couldn't last because of the darkness and didn't want to hold her back, and this caused a variety of problems. She was put in an unnatural situation that she never should have been a part of. It must have been very hard for her, not knowing what was actually going on with me, but this is not something I've ever been able to talk about with anyone. Losing her was very hard for me as well. Not because of her (I got over our relationship relatively quickly), but because of the realization that I would never have another relationship and because it signified the last true, exclusive personal connection I could ever have. This wasn't apparent to other people, because I could never talk about the real reasons for my sadness. I was very sad in the summer and fall, but it was not because of her, it was because I will never escape the darkness with anyone. She was so loving and kind to me and gave me everything I could have asked for under the circumstances. I'll never forget how much happiness she brought me in those briefs moments when I could ignore the darkness. I had originally planned to kill myself last winter but never got around to it. (Parts of this letter were written over a year ago, other parts days before doing this.) It was wrong of me to involve myself in her life if this were a possibility and I should have just left her alone, even though we only dated for a few months and things ended a long time ago. She's just one more person in a long list of people I've hurt.
I could spend pages talking about the other relationships I've had that were ruined because of my problems and my confusion related to the darkness. I've hurt so many great people because of who I am and my inability to experience what needs to be experienced. All I can say is that I tried to be honest with people about what I thought was true.
I've spent my life hurting people. Today will be the last time.
I've told different people a lot of things, but I've never told anyone about what happened to me, ever, for obvious reasons. It took me a while to realize that no matter how close you are to someone or how much they claim to love you, people simply cannot keep secrets. I learned this a few years ago when I thought I was gay and told people. The more harmful the secret, the juicier the gossip and the more likely you are to be betrayed. People don't care about their word or what they've promised, they just do whatever the **** they want and justify it later. It feels incredibly lonely to realize you can never share something with someone and have it be between just the two of you. I don't blame anyone in particular, I guess it's just how people are. Even if I felt like this is something I could have shared, I have no interest in being part of a friendship or relationship where the other person views me as the damaged and contaminated person that I am. So even if I were able to trust someone, I probably would not have told them about what happened to me. At this point I simply don't care who knows.
I feel an evil inside me. An evil that makes me want to end life. I need to stop this. I need to make sure I don't kill someone, which is not something that can be easily undone. I don't know if this is related to what happened to me or something different. I recognize the irony of killing myself to prevent myself from killing someone else, but this decision should indicate what I'm capable of.
So I've realized I will never escape the darkness or misery associated with it and I have a responsibility to stop myself from physically harming others.
I'm just a broken, miserable shell of a human being. Being molested has defined me as a person and shaped me as a human being and it has made me the monster I am and there's nothing I can do to escape it. I don't know any other existence. I don't know what life feels like where I'm apart from any of this. I actively despise the person I am. I just feel fundamentally broken, almost non-human. I feel like an animal that woke up one day in a human body, trying to make sense of a foreign world, living among creatures it doesn't understand and can't connect with.
I have accepted that the darkness will never allow me to be in a relationship. I will never go to sleep with someone in my arms, feeling the comfort of their hands around me. I will never know what uncontimated intimacy is like. I will never have an exclusive bond with someone, someone who can be the recipient of all the love I have to give. I will never have children, and I wanted to be a father so badly. I think I would have made a good dad. And even if I had fought through the darkness and married and had children all while being unable to feel intimacy, I could have never done that if suicide were a possibility. I did try to minimize pain, although I know that this decision will hurt many of you. If this hurts you, I hope that you can at least forget about me quickly.
There's no point in identifying who molested me, so I'm just going to leave it at that. I doubt the word of a dead guy with no evidence about something that happened over twenty years ago would have much sway.
You may wonder why I didn't just talk to a professional about this. I've seen a number of doctors since I was a teenager to talk about other issues and I'm positive that another doctor would not have helped. I was never given one piece of actionable advice, ever. More than a few spent a large part of the session reading their notes to remember who I was. And I have no interest in talking about being raped as a child, both because I know it wouldn't help and because I have no confidence it would remain secret. I know the legal and practical limits of doctor/patient confidentiality, growing up in a house where we'd hear stories about the various mental illnesses of famous people, stories that were passed down through generations. All it takes is one doctor who thinks my story is interesting enough to share or a doctor who thinks it's her right or responsibility to contact the authorities and have me identify the molestor (justifying her decision by telling herself that someone else might be in danger). All it takes is a single doctor who violates my trust, just like the "friends" who I told I was gay did, and everything would be made public and I'd be forced to live in a world where people would know how ****ed up I am. And yes, I realize this indicates that I have severe trust issues, but they're based on a large number of experiences with people who have shown a profound disrepect for their word and the privacy of others.
People say suicide is selfish. I think it's selfish to ask people to continue living painful and miserable lives, just so you possibly won't feel sad for a week or two. Suicide may be a permanent solution to a temporary problem, but it's also a permanent solution to a ~23 year-old problem that grows more intense and overwhelming every day.
Some people are just dealt bad hands in this life. I know many people have it worse than I do, and maybe I'm just not a strong person, but I really did try to deal with this. I've tried to deal with this every day for the last 23 years and I just can't ****ing take it anymore.
I often wonder what life must be like for other people. People who can feel the love from others and give it back unadulterated, people who can experience sex as an intimate and joyous experience, people who can experience the colors and happenings of this world without constant misery. I wonder who I'd be if things had been different or if I were a stronger person. It sounds pretty great.
I'm prepared for death. I'm prepared for the pain and I am ready to no longer exist. Thanks to the strictness of New Jersey gun laws this will probably be much more painful than it needs to be, but what can you do. My only fear at this point is messing something up and surviving.
—-
I'd also like to address my family, if you can call them that. I despise everything they stand for and I truly hate them, in a non-emotional, dispassionate and what I believe is a healthy way. The world will be a better place when they're dead—one with less hatred and intolerance.
If you're unfamiliar with the situation, my parents are fundamentalist Christians who kicked me out of their house and cut me off financially when I was 19 because I refused to attend seven hours of church a week.
They live in a black and white reality they've constructed for themselves. They partition the world into good and evil and survive by hating everything they fear or misunderstand and calling it love. They don't understand that good and decent people exist all around us, "saved" or not, and that evil and cruel people occupy a large percentage of their church. They take advantage of people looking for hope by teaching them to practice the same hatred they practice.
A random example:
"I am personally convinced that if a Muslim truly believes and obeys the Koran, he will be a terrorist." - George Zeller, August 24, 2010.
If you choose to follow a religion where, for example, devout Catholics who are trying to be good people are all going to Hell but child molestors go to Heaven (as long as they were "saved" at some point), that's your choice, but it's ****ed up. Maybe a God who operates by those rules does exist. If so, **** Him.
Their church was always more important than the members of their family and they happily sacrificed whatever necessary in order to satisfy their contrived beliefs about who they should be.
I grew up in a house where love was proxied through a God I could never believe in. A house where the love of music with any sort of a beat was literally beaten out of me. A house full of hatred and intolerance, run by two people who were experts at appearing kind and warm when others were around. Parents who tell an eight year old that his grandmother is going to Hell because she's Catholic. Parents who claim not to be racist but then talk about the horrors of miscegenation. I could list hundreds of other examples, but it's tiring.
Since being kicked out, I've interacted with them in relatively normal ways. I talk to them on the phone like nothing happened. I'm not sure why. Maybe because I like pretending I have a family. Maybe I like having people I can talk to about what's been going on in my life. Whatever the reason, it's not real and it feels like a sham. I should have never allowed this reconnection to happen.
I wrote the above a while ago, and I do feel like that much of the time. At other times, though, I feel less hateful. I know my parents honestly believe the crap they believe in. I know that my mom, at least, loved me very much and tried her best. One reason I put this off for so long is because I know how much pain it will cause her. She has been sad since she found out I wasn't "saved", since she believes I'm going to Hell, which is not a sadness for which I am responsible. That was never going to change, and presumably she believes the state of my physical body is much less important than the state of my soul. Still, I cannot intellectually justify this decision, knowing how much it will hurt her. Maybe my ability to take my own life, knowing how much pain it will cause, shows that I am a monster who doesn't deserve to live. All I know is that I can't deal with this pain any longer and I'm am truly sorry I couldn't wait until my family and everyone I knew died so this could be done without hurting anyone. For years I've wished that I'd be hit by a bus or die while saving a baby from drowning so my death might be more acceptable, but I was never so lucky.
—-
To those of you who have shown me love, thank you for putting up with all my ****tiness and moodiness and arbitrariness. I was never the person I wanted to be. Maybe without the darkness I would have been a better person, maybe not. I did try to be a good person, but I realize I never got very far.
I'm sorry for the pain this causes. I really do wish I had another option. I hope this letter explains why I needed to do this. If you can't understand this decision, I hope you can at least forgive me.
Bill Zeller
—-
Please save this letter and repost it if gets deleted. I don't want people to wonder why I did this. I disseminated it more widely than I might have otherwise because I'm worried that my family might try to restrict access to it. I don't mind if this letter is made public. In fact, I'd prefer it be made public to people being unable to read it and drawing their own conclusions.
Feel free to republish this letter, but only if it is reproduced in its entirety.

hondasam

After reading the letter you can't help but think why he did not seek help and counselling. everyday of his life must have been dark and depressing.

He worried about messing up and surviving the suicide which nearly happened.

" He passed away the night of Jan. 5 at University Medical Center Princeton as a result of injuries from his suicide attempt, which left him brain damaged and in a coma. Public Safety officers discovered his body the morning of Jan. 2, reports The Daily Princetonian."

RIP

Kur4mA

You will rarely read something as eye opening as this, especially someone planning on taking their own life. I have to say it is tragic what the guy went through.

Mahatma coat

Jaysus, thats fairly well laid out, I can understand why he never sought counseling or told anyone. It ALWAYS causes MORE problems and rarely if Ever helps. Problem with that tho is you never realise in your dull echo of an existence that there are others who share similar pain much closer than you think.

anyone remember Joe Stack, and his suicide in 2010????

Killer Pigeon

I have read a few suicide notes put up on the internet before but this has to be by far the longest, most in depth and most analytical I've ever read. He really pours himself out to the world. Of course, nobody will ever be able to know what it was like to be in his boots and feel what he was experiencing throughout his life - it's beyond my imagining. I think people should seek help right away if they feel like this and develop confidence to talk about their problems.

And I have no interest in talking about being raped as a child, both because I know it wouldn't help and because I have no confidence it would remain secret.

I thought this was quite a disturbing part of the article because it showed that he thought that there really was no help for him. I think if you know that someone was hurt like this you should persuade them to talk. If it were the case that someone you were close with was abused or contemplating suicide then you should go directly to the professionals to deal with it before it gets out of hand. I'm doing peer mentoring this year in college (basically getting first years, helping them with the start of college, trying to get them involved in college and help them make friends, etc..). We were told that if someone ever said that they were contemplating suicide or had been hurt in a serious way and hadn't told anyone then we should go directly to the proper people to get them help, with or without their consent in extremely serious situations like this because it was for their own good. Luckily there was never a time when I had to do that. I'm sure there are lots of people here on boards are more knowledgeable and experienced on how to deal with such a situation; perhaps it would be good to discuss that a bit more.

dr.bollocko

Hello.
This thread has now been cleaned up somewhat. Lets try and discuss this one without the insensitive jokes. They're unnecessary. So if you can't post relevant to the topic without being needlessly insensitive then don't post at all.
I would appreciate if posters continue to report any posts which cross the line.

hondasam

hondasam wrote: »

After reading the letter you can't help but think why he did not seek help and counselling. everyday of his life must have been dark and depressing.

He worried about messing up and surviving the suicide which nearly happened.

" He passed away the night of Jan. 5 at University Medical Center Princeton as a result of injuries from his suicide attempt, which left him brain damaged and in a coma. Public Safety officers discovered his body the morning of Jan. 2, reports The Daily Princetonian."

RIP

It says he did seek help and they were useless. Of course we can wish he kept trying, but it's easy to see why he became discouraged quickly.

Poor guy, I can understand what he's saying.

People say suicide is selfish. I think it's selfish to ask people to continue living painful and miserable lives, just so you possibly won't feel sad for a week or two.

qft

Kimia

The shame a victim of sexual abuse feels is something that can't be underestimated. I can't even begin to imagine how horrifying it must be to have to face, and it must feel much easier to never speak about it. In some cases the abused is completely manipulated to be a part of the actual abuse so it's not as black and white to them. Those feelings of shame and humiliation prevent them from talking about what happened as they feel somewhat responsible (which of course is completely wrong).

I think that's the ultimate barrier - to admit that it's happened to you and the feelings that it provoked. It's rarely as simple as 'I was abused' and I hated my abuser. The abused may love the abuser and that of course can be terribly confusing. It's a very complex situation and my heart goes out to anyone who has been a victim.

Kimono-Girl

Mahatma coat wrote: »

I can understand why he never sought counseling or told anyone. It ALWAYS causes MORE problems and rarely if Ever helps.

i have to 100% disagree with this, i thanks to HSE counseling have been able to turn my life around completely, i am i suppose what people refer to as a 'successful case' and i like to publicly discuss it in the hopes i might just help even one person out there who was like me,


i will be the first to admit when i myself went looking for help it was no-where to be found, family members didn't know how to help me but then i never really opened up to them properly i just acted out, i first went to a counselor when i was 8 years old, my mother was desperate knowing there was something wrong with me but no-one would believe her, at 8 i was able to mask what was really wrong with me, and they declared me healthy and happy, how wrong they were, the system lets people who need help most slip through so easily, thats true, but...


in later years all my problems came back to haunt me after a traumatic event triggered them, one by one i was flooded drowning in a place in my head that i couldn't leave for one second of the day, its hard to explain to others, people just don't understand unless they have been there themselves, but it took so much, and cost so much, peoples lives were ruined by me and the irony is that the people i hurt the most, are those that helped me the most, it is something i can never thank them enough for, something i am forever indebted for.

their actions got me the help i needed, i was in a situation where after attempting to take my own life the counseling service of the local psychiatric ward were forced into accepting me,thye transfered me to my local outsourced clinic, it was there i finally opened up for the second time ever, about my entire life, how i felt, the anger towards anyone who cared for me, the resentment i fought on a daily basis, the hatred of myself, these feelings/actions i could not control, i was assessed and released as an outpatient but the outpatient care i got you could not praise them enough, weekly sessions until i was more stable, excellent doctors who really to this day i cannot thank enough, staff who helped me through it every step of the way.

they diagnosed me as having a borderline personality disorder and i have to admit as soon as i knew what was wrong with me it did give me a sense of hope, hope that i could overcome this dark period and become a normal happy person for the first time in my life, it took years, only last year (2010) was i discharged, but the resources are always there if i or my family members feel i need them, my doctor checks on me regularly and i have to also add the communication between him and my counselors goes beyond their duty's. the efforts they went to outside of their jobs was wholly appreciated.


yes there are many bad apples in counseling services but praise where its due to the cork staff i wouldn't have gotten my life back without them, i wouldn't be here without them.

Wurly

I hope reading this changes peoples views on suicide. That the person must be a selfish individual for killing themselves.

What people don't realise is that the person saw no other option and that their life as they knew it was too painful to continue. How is that selfish? Yes, the people left behind will be in pain. But what about the pain for the suicidal person? The feeling that they cant escape their own mind? Should they continue living in turmoil just so others wont be in pain.

Obviously, it would be ideal that each suicidal person realised that it is possible to get past your past. It would be great if they could regain some hope for the future and not go through with ending their existence. But for someone to be deemed as selfish for ending a hopeless, painful life? Bullsh1t imo. Can we show these people compassion, rather than judging them?

Dudess

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

oh god drama llama in here.

On these threads, I much prefer to read certain jokey comments than "Ooh look at me and how indifferent I am" type ones tbh...

Dudess

Mahatma coat wrote: »

I can understand why he never sought counseling or told anyone. It ALWAYS causes MORE problems and rarely if Ever helps.

Based on what?

TPD

I read that when it was posted on Gizmodo. Sad story.

Dudess

Horribly sad - poor guy...

Naikon

Dudess wrote: »

Based on what?

Based on human traits. If I ever have to deal with stuff like that, I am sure as hell not going to speak to "health professionals" about it. I mean come on, what exactly will talking achieve? You don't spill your beans out when talking about crime, so why talk about mental health? I don't like that this is the way it is, but society brands people. I can understand why he didn't seek help. I would not seek help either, sadly. "Sorry Bill, we have upped your insurance costs, because frankly, you are ****ed up." - Will be replaced by a cleverly worded euphemism. People:rolleyes:

Dudess

I was referring to Mahatma Coat's claim that it always causes more problems and rarely if ever helps. One cannot possibly know this unless one is privy to a huge number of other cases. I've never gone for counselling - I hope I never have cause to do so - but (like anyone) I know many who have, and they have nothing but good things to say about it. The only person I know who found it useless is a friend's sibling whom I know quite well and she has always been someone who expects a magic wand to be waved and problems just solved by outside parties/factors, with little or no input from herself.
I'm not saying counselling therapy won't make things more painful for some - I've no doubt it does, I've no doubt it does not work for everyone, but a person whose experience of it is bad cannot ascribe this to everyone else's experience.
Counselling too tries to get to the cause, rather than anti depressants which just treat the symptoms. And I'm not being critical of anti depressants - I fully appreciate they can be a great help in the correct dosage, but they don't teach people how to be stronger in themselves and how to cope.

Naikon

Dudess wrote: »

I was referring to Mahatma Coat's claim that it always causes more problems and rarely if ever helps. One cannot possibly know this unless one is privy to a huge number of other cases. I've never gone for counselling - I hope I never have cause to do so - but (like anyone) I know many who have, and they have nothing but good things to say about it. The only person I know who found it useless is a friend's sibling whom I know quite well and she has always been someone who expects a magic wand to be waved and problems just solved by outside parties/factors, with little or no input from herself.
I'm not saying counselling therapy won't make things more painful for some - I've no doubt it does, I've no doubt it does not work for everyone, but a person whose experience of it is bad cannot ascribe this to everyone else's experience.
Counselling too tries to get to the cause, rather than anti depressants which just treat the symptoms. And I'm not being critical of anti depressants - I fully appreciate they can be a great help in the correct dosage, but they don't teach people how to be stronger in themselves and how to cope.

Trust nobody but yourself;)

Dudess

Potentially harmful advice imo - a projecting of your own bad experiences on others. I think it's wrong to urge people to prevent themselves from getting help on the basis of your personal experiences, even if I think it's reasonable to be honest with them about your own experiences.

Naikon

Dudess wrote: »

Potentially harmful advice imo - a projecting of your own bad experiences on others. I think it's wrong to urge people to prevent themselves from getting help on the basis of your personal experiences, even if I think it's reasonable to be honest with them about your own experiences.

Who knows. People in general are unpredictable. Best confide in your family members or someone you trust. Not some "health professional". Sorry, I am just skeptical of the general
concept of counselling. It's a great system for compiling statistics, but what about actual help? If the problem is serious enough, I am not so certain of counselling. "Yes but I didn't
mean to drive over the guy 14 times":pac:

Coriolanus

I'd have to refute anyone giving blasé advice not to seek medical help.

It may not have helped you, it does help tens of thousands every day, myself included.

This man's letter should be evidence enough for anyone that going alone just isn't possible for everyone.

Cheap Thrills!

I just read this sober

(I actually thought it was a spoof last night, just drunkenly skimmed over it.)

Poor man RIP

Mahatma coat

the thing about not talkin about it is NOT talkin about it.

It dosent help, you dont suddenly become Magicaly Unmolested, you just drag more people into your Darkness and suffering, there are Pain junkies out there who make a living out of listening to other people pour their hearts out, but they also have to justify getting paid, so they prescribe all sorts of medications and attach labels to you which ultimatley make the situation a whole lot more unbearable and unavoidable, where previously you had been Moody and should be left alone for a bit now you're Depressed and need to be medicated.

NONE OF THAT SH!T HELPS

sometimes, as the lad stated in the letter you wake up in the morning and you cant come up with some reason, ANY Reason, to go and haul yerself out to face the world

Craebear

Clearly shows the harm child abuse has on people. Child abusers must be killed, simple as that.

Was a worthwhile read.

pablomakaveli

Anyone who suggests theres no point in getting help is completely ignorant and more than likely braindead in my opinion.

Carrying a burden like that on your own can be extremely difficult and it can destroy you.

The letter from that guy is heartbreaking though. It really highlights the damage that sexual abuse can do to a person. The guys life was completely destroyed by some cruel individual who unfortunately will probably get away with it.

I think he should have named his abuser but it seems like he was too far gone to care anymore.