Fraudulent use of the disabled parking permit

LegacyUser

Hi Guys,

I've a bit of a dilemma.

I know of someone using a one of the blue disabled parking permits. Ive done some research and found that it in fact belongs to this persons mother. The person using this badge is basically abusing the system and using it to park for free where ever they like.

I don't want to go into to much detail about how I know and where it is, but the fact is it is being used fraudulently by this person.

Advice needed..

HellFireClub

How do you know the the person in question does not use their car to transport their mother???

And how is this a PI??? :rolleyes:

Ickle Magoo

HellFireClub - if you have an issue with a post then please report it rather than backseat modding.

If you haven't already done so, please take the time to read the forum rules in the charter.

Many thanks.
Ickle

biko

I'd assume you can report them to whoever issues these permits?

Cheap Thrills!

Is the person using the permit to do stuff for their Mother? Or just hogging the space opportunistically? I applied for one of these on behalf of my Mam but sadly she died before the application even came through.

There were times i probably would have used it to pick up medication/disabled equipment.

However if i knew some one was abusing it i would be furious.

Its up to you Op, be sure but if she is blocking disabled spaces fraudulently report her.

Monkey Allen

I'd let it go to be honest. If you are in need of a disabled parking spot and they are using the only one, then it affects you.

panda100

I see nothing wrong with a family member of someone with a disability using a disabled parking permit. Family members are often their full time carers. I work as a disability support worker and If im driving the car of someone I work for I park in disability spaces even If they are not with me, as often I need to buy food, medication and other necessities in a rush.

I seriously cannot understand why you think this is a personal issue or an issue that affects your life in anyway at all?!

sam34

Cheap Thrills! wrote: »

There were times i probably would have used it to pick up medication/disabled equipment.

panda100 wrote: »

I see nothing wrong with a family member of someone with a disability using a disabled parking permit. Family members are often their full time carers. I work as a disability support worker and If im driving the car of someone I work for I park in disability spaces even If they are not with me, as often I need to buy food, medication and other necessities in a rush

just because you - an able-bodied person- are using the car to do something for the disabled person, it does not entitle you to use the disabled space, AFAIK.

the spaces are bigger than regular spaces to allow someone with poor mobility/wheelchair to get in and out of the car, not so that their carer can nip into the shop/chemist quickly

LegacyUser

panda100 wrote: »

I see nothing wrong with a family member of someone with a disability using a disabled parking permit. Family members are often their full time carers. I work as a disability support worker and If im driving the car of someone I work for I park in disability spaces even If they are not with me, as often I need to buy food, medication and other necessities in a rush.

I seriously cannot understand why you think this is a personal issue or an issue that affects your life in anyway at all?!

I find this atitude extraordinary. You need to understand why permits are issued in the first place. They are to facilitate the mobility of the disabled person. Not their family , not their carer. The only reason such people should use a permit is if the disabled person is being carried in the car.

LegacyUser

It is a clear case of abuse. The person using this badge does not park in a disabled parking space, but in a normal pay parking place for the entire day while they are in work. Once this badge is displayed, parking is free. This is done monday to friday, 9-5pm. This is not a case of pulling in outside a shop to pick up medication or food.

I have posted here because I feel something has to be done and Im not sure what to do.

Cheap Thrills!

sam34 wrote: »

just because you - an able-bodied person- are using the car to do something for the disabled person, it does not entitle you to use the disabled space, AFAIK.

the spaces are bigger than regular spaces to allow someone with poor mobility/wheelchair to get in and out of the car, not so that their carer can nip into the shop/chemist quickly

I never got to use it as I said in my post! But I see what you mean.

Jane Eyre

panda100 wrote: »

I see nothing wrong with a family member of someone with a disability using a disabled parking permit. Family members are often their full time carers. I work as a disability support worker and If im driving the car of someone I work for I park in disability spaces even If they are not with me, as often I need to buy food, medication and other necessities in a rush.

I seriously cannot understand why you think this is a personal issue or an issue that affects your life in anyway at all?!

'in a rush'? You are blatantly flouting the rules under which the permits are issued! They are for disabled drivers or for those transporting the disabled at the time.
Shame on you. You are depriving someone who actually physically needs the space. And you work in a 'caring' profession? How selfish can you get?

Doop

windows95 wrote: »

I know of someone using a one of the blue disabled parking permits. Ive done some research and found that it in fact belongs to this persons mother. The person using this badge is basically abusing the system and using it to park for free where ever they like.

Theres one major point to consider here. Disabled parking permits allow disabled people to use designated disable spaces but they also allow disabled people to park in 'pay & display' zones free of charge.

If this person is just parking in pay and display and using the parking permit to avoid paying then they're not really affecting anyone... well that could be debated!

BUT
If they're parking in a disabled space then they're preventing a disabled person from using that space.

to be honest, id leave well alone. I wouldnt see it as my place to report someone. If they want to do something like this then bad karma will follow!!

bon ami

Disabled parking permits are for disabled people who need to use them not their able bodied minders or relatives who are in a hurry!

I get really pissed off when transporting my wheelchair bound mother and seeing people using these designated disabled parking spots who are not entitled. They are always in a hurry or a rush unlike everybody who obeys the law.

Confronting them does not work. Just shout at the top of your voice "ITS A MIRACLE YOU'VE BEEN CURED> ITS A MIRACLE!!!!! Keep on until they react.

Greta fun altogether.

panda100

Jane Eyre wrote: »

'in a rush'? You are blatantly flouting the rules under which the permits are issued! They are for disabled drivers or for those transporting the disabled at the time.
Shame on you. You are depriving someone who actually physically needs the space. And you work in a 'caring' profession? How selfish can you get?

Fair enough. Im not going to get into my clients circumstances here but suffice to say I do not feel it selfish at all to use these spaces when I need vital medication or food for someone I work for. The op does not know what the circumstances are for this family, and unless there constantly taking up all the disabled parking spaces in his local area then I really don't see the problem she/he has.

Firetrap

I presume if you feel that strongly about it, you could make a complaint to the body who issues the permits. I do think though that you'd want to be very careful you know the full facts before you go down that route.

sam34

panda100 wrote: »

Fair enough. Im not going to get into my clients circumstances here but suffice to say I do not feel it selfish at all to use these spaces when I need vital medication or food for someone I work for. The op does not know what the circumstances are for this family, and unless there constantly taking up all the disabled parking spaces in his local area then I really don't see the problem she/he has.

food is vital for everyone, disabled or not.

medication is vital for those that are on, disabled or not.

they're not good enough excuses.

disabled spaces are for disabled drivers, to enable them get around more easily and have the relevant space for wheelchairs/other mobility aids, and to allow them park near the shops/doctors/chemist.

i think it's very shoddy for an able-bodied person to use them, citing needing food/meds for a disabled person as an "excuse".

what about a disabled person who comes along and needs to park in that space but cant because an able-bodied person is using it, depsite not needing it?

WindSock

bon ami wrote: »

Confronting them does not work. Just shout at the top of your voice "ITS A MIRACLE YOU'VE BEEN CURED> ITS A MIRACLE!!!!! Keep on until they react.

Greta fun altogether.

How do you know they don't have a prosthetic leg though?

I worked as a carer before and there is no way I would ever use a disabled space. If I am in a big hurry I can find a space less than a minute away and leg it in to the shops. It'd probably take up less time than arguing with passer bys about using the convenient disabled space. It really annoys me too to see people parked in them, and staying in their cars as if they are only 'there for a minute' It is still blocking the space from someone who may need it. The people it is designated for.

Big Bag of Chips

The OP never claimed the person in question is using disabled spaces. The disc also allows for free parking in public places.

To be honest, if I had the chance to avail of free parking I'd take it. Would you OP?!

If the person is not using the disabled spaces then I'd say leave him to it. If he is using the spaces I might try suggest to him that he shouldn't ( that he can park anywhere!)

tinkerbell

panda100 wrote: »

Fair enough. Im not going to get into my clients circumstances here but suffice to say I do not feel it selfish at all to use these spaces when I need vital medication or food for someone I work for. The op does not know what the circumstances are for this family, and unless there constantly taking up all the disabled parking spaces in his local area then I really don't see the problem she/he has.

Yes it is selfish if you are using the space when you, a person who is not disabled, are just in the car by yourself and you do not have a disabled person with you. That is completely wrong. There is no excuse to use a disabled space unless you actually are disabled. Using this excuse of "being in a rush" is a disgrace - go find another space. What if a disabled person comes along and can't use it because of you? Just because you are running errands for a disabled person, doesn't make you entitled to use that space - unless they are in the car with you and need to come into the shop with you.

OP - you should report the person who is using it fraudulently, I don't know where you would do such a thing, but I'm sure others could suggest where to go to.

MistyCheese

WindSock wrote: »

How do you know they don't have a prosthetic leg though?

Great point. There are a lot of people who are registered disabled and are fully entitled to a disability badge but show no outward signs of disability. People who suffer from ME come to mind immediately.

bon ami

bon ami wrote: »

Confronting them does not work. Just shout at the top of your voice "ITS A MIRACLE YOU'VE BEEN CURED> ITS A MIRACLE!!!!! Keep on until they react.

Greta fun altogether.

Not so much fun for someone with a prosthetic leg or other less obvious disability to be on the receiving end. I have a friend who was given out to for using a disabled space, by an able bodied person who didn't realise she was disabled. It was really awkward and embarrassing for her. The other person looked like (and I'm sure felt like) a complete d*ck. My friend takes about half an hour to walk 30 feet (prosthetic leg), so she was well within her rights to park in that space. Personally I'd have to be absolutely sure the person was not disabled in any way before I said anything.

LegacyUser

I agree with the other posters about not all disabilities being visible. I have a disability badge and I have cystic fibrosis (a lung condition) but I often feel self conscious when using it because I look perfectly healthy although I have reduced lung function, so people should look for a disabled badge before they yell at others.

HellFireClub

panda100 wrote: »

I see nothing wrong with a family member of someone with a disability using a disabled parking permit. Family members are often their full time carers. I work as a disability support worker and If im driving the car of someone I work for I park in disability spaces even If they are not with me, as often I need to buy food, medication and other necessities in a rush.

I seriously cannot understand why you think this is a personal issue or an issue that affects your life in anyway at all?!

I've a mate who has a child with special needs and has a disabled parking permit, he might not have his child with him if he uses a disabled parking space, but he might be collecting a prescription or on some other business relating to the care of his child, which is of absolutely no concern to anyone else. He legimitately has a permit to use a disabled parking space, therefore he legimitately has the right to use to a disabled parking space in relation to all aspects pertaining to the care of his child.

What you seem to be expecting OP is that if someone uses a disabled parking space, then they must have a disabled person in the vehicle with them. There is no such requirement in law with regard to (A) the issuing of a disabled parking permit and (B) the use of a disabled parking space.

So the only recourse I can see for you is to lobby your local politician for a change in the law.

SerialComplaint

panda100 wrote: »

I do not feel it selfish at all to use these spaces when I need vital medication or food for someone I work for.

Your feeling of selfishness or otherwise are completely irrelevant. This is abuse of the facility.

windows95 wrote: »

It is a clear case of abuse. The person using this badge does not park in a disabled parking space, but in a normal pay parking place for the entire day while they are in work. Once this badge is displayed, parking is free. This is done monday to friday, 9-5pm. This is not a case of pulling in outside a shop to pick up medication or food.

I have posted here because I feel something has to be done and Im not sure what to do.

Assuming that this is an on-street parking bay, contact the relevant parking authority, e.g. Dublin City Council or which ever.

HellFireClub wrote: »

I've a mate who has a child with special needs and has a disabled parking permit, he might not have his child with him if he uses a disabled parking space, but he might be collecting a prescription or on some other business relating to the care of his child, which is of absolutely no concern to anyone else. He legimitately has a permit to use a disabled parking space, therefore he legimitately has the right to use to a disabled parking space in relation to all aspects pertaining to the care of his child.

What you seem to be expecting OP is that if someone uses a disabled parking space, then they must have a disabled person in the vehicle with them. There is no such requirement in law with regard to (A) the issuing of a disabled parking permit and (B) the use of a disabled parking space.

THe conditions of the scheme http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/traffic_and_parking/disabled_persons_parking_card.html state that the person with the disability can use the card, regardless of whatever car they are travelling in. It doesn't say that the card can be used for family members to nip to the chemist of the shops.

HellFireClub

SerialComplaint wrote: »

THe conditions of the scheme http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/traffic_and_parking/disabled_persons_parking_card.html state that the person with the disability can use the card, regardless of whatever car they are travelling in. It doesn't say that the card can be used for family members to nip to the chemist of the shops.

You've quoted what is in fact in incorrect legal construction of the actual law in this area:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/si/0182.html#zzsi182y1997a43

Disabled Persons Permits

43. (1) For the purposes of these Regulations, a disabled person means a person who is suffering from a disability that prevents that person from walking or causes undue hardship to the person in walking.


(2) ( a ) A disabled person's parking permit may be granted by a local authority or by any of the bodies listed in the Third Schedule.


( b ) A permit granted under bye-laws made under section 90 of the Act of 1961 shall be deemed to be a permit granted under these Regulations.


(3) Article 37(2)(b) shall not apply to a vehicle in which a disabled person's parking permit is displayed and which is parked for the convenience of the person to whom that permit was granted.


(4) A permit granted in accordance with article 2 shall be valid for two years from the date of its issue.

There is nothing stated above that suggests that in order to satisfy the requirement that the permit is being used for the convenience of the person who the permit has been issued on behalf of, that the person in question must be in the vehicle or be in the process of being transported in the vehicle.

It is obvious that a disabled person could be very convenienced by reducing the time that might be needed to get medication on their behalf, rather than potentially having to spend considerable time driving around a car park looking for a parking space, and in any event, there is nothing in law that says that anyone using a permit must allow themselves to be open to challenge by any person, other than to satisfy an authorised person such as a traffic warden or a Garda that the actual permit is genuine as distinct from being a fake permit.

If you have a legitimate permit to park in a disabled parking space, then you are entitled to park in such a space, without challenge, save in the case of a Garda or a traffic warden and only for the purposes of inspecting the permit to satisfy themselves that the permit is genuine.

we'llallhavetea_old

sorry op, but i think you're being ridiculous tbh.

the person isn't swallowing up any disabled parking, they're just savin' a few bob on parking, not the end of the world...

Jane Eyre

HellFireClub wrote: »

You've quoted what is in fact in incorrect legal construction of the actual law in this area:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/si/0182.html#zzsi182y1997a43

Disabled Persons Permits

43. (1) For the purposes of these Regulations, a disabled person means a person who is suffering from a disability that prevents that person from walking or causes undue hardship to the person in walking.


(2) ( a ) A disabled person's parking permit may be granted by a local authority or by any of the bodies listed in the Third Schedule.


( b ) A permit granted under bye-laws made under section 90 of the Act of 1961 shall be deemed to be a permit granted under these Regulations.


(3) Article 37(2)(b) shall not apply to a vehicle in which a disabled person's parking permit is displayed and which is parked for the convenience of the person to whom that permit was granted.


(4) A permit granted in accordance with article 2 shall be valid for two years from the date of its issue.

There is nothing stated above that suggests that in order to satisfy the requirement that the permit is being used for the convenience of the person who the permit has been issued on behalf of, that the person in question must be in the vehicle or be in the process of being transported in the vehicle.

It is obvious that a disabled person could be very convenienced by reducing the time that might be needed to get medication on their behalf, rather than potentially having to spend considerable time driving around a car park looking for a parking space, and in any event, there is nothing in law that says that anyone using a permit must allow themselves to be open to challenge by any person, other than to satisfy an authorised person such as a traffic warden or a Garda that the actual permit is genuine as distinct from being a fake permit.

If you have a legitimate permit to park in a disabled parking space, then you are entitled to park in such a space, without challenge, save in the case of a Garda or a traffic warden and only for the purposes of inspecting the permit to satisfy themselves that the permit is genuine.

Maybe you have a learning disability because you are clearly not understanding the terms set out above: U]for the convenience of the person to whom that permit was granted.[/U] This does not mean for the convenience of the carer or assistant of the person to whom that permit was granted.
I'm afraid that a learning disability does not entitle you to the use of the permit either.

littlefriend

Disabled parking spaces are for use by people who are disabled... the clue is in the name..the symbol of a person in a wheelchair is a clue. It is so the disabled person a) has more room to maneuver around their car and b) leaves them closer to the shops. It is not a parking space for ****wits trying to shave 30 feet off the distance they have to walk or using the excuse that food is a necessity so they need to be nearer the shop. WTF??? Laughable.

I can't believe ppl are saying its ok to use it if you are doing something on behalf of the person who was given the permit. Even if the legislation does not specifically forbid the carer etc using this it is morally incorrect to do so. To the people defending this practice, I am embarrassed for you. Shameful behaviour.

Someone actually went to the bother of quoting the statute book to defend this practice. Sad and irritating in equal measures.

Nadser

I have a disabled parking permit. When I got it, there was an accompanying leaflet clearly stating that it was for the use of the disabled person only. It clearly stated that it could only be used when the disabled person was in the vehicle and that abuse of the permit can result in it being taken away.

I can't walk unaided and some days are harder than others. I've often gone to the shops on a 'bad' day and turned around and gone home again, minus groceries, because there were no spaces close to the shop. I wasn't able to manage the walk across the car park in addition to walking around the shop. I think it is incredibly selfish for able-bodied people to abuse this permit.

MissElle

windows95 wrote: »

Hi Guys,

I've a bit of a dilemma.

I know of someone using a one of the blue disabled parking permits. Ive done some research and found that it in fact belongs to this persons mother. The person using this badge is basically abusing the system and using it to park for free where ever they like.

I don't want to go into to much detail about how I know and where it is, but the fact is it is being used fraudulently by this person.

Advice needed..

If she was deliberately parking in the bays, then yes I would report her. There are often only a couple of them and they are there for people who need them, not someone using a permit to get free parking.

I think it's disgraceful to abuse it tbh. My twin sister is in a wheelchair and I only use the permit if she is with me, after all it's her permit. I'm an able- bodied person so why would I take up a disabled parking space?