Time for a Fine Gael/Fianna Fáil Coalition?

Grassroots_FF

Given the current polls I expect Fine Gael to win 70 seats and Fianna Fáil to maybe take 25 seats. That is more than enough for a centre-right coalition. There is very little difference between both parties so I think a coalition makes sense. Fine gael and Labour would have too many differences to govern effectively

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0107/poll.html

Seloth

FF and FG are like two long time feuding family's...They may be more or less the same and have near enough the same values but despite the fact those in the family weren't around for the original fight they still some how manage to hold a grudge.

In another decade or so this may happen but its unlikely too happen anytime soon.Or at least thats my thought on in.

Biggins

LOL you wish!
Won't happen - the public don't want FF in again. End of story.

FG won't get hitched to them for they have seen what happened to the Greens, the PD's...

Wishful thinking.

Grassroots_FF

Seloth wrote: »

FF and FG are like two long time feuding family's...They may be more or less the same and have near enough the same values but despite the fact those in the family weren't around for the original fight they still some how manage to hold a grudge.

In another decade or so this may happen but its unlikely too happen anytime soon.Or at least thats my thought on in.

I think we in FF have to be more mature and get past this. I don't like Fine Gael's westbrit image but at the end of the day we have the same economic policies and if we come together we can have a strong centre right government that doesn't rely on pinko lefties or cavemen like Jackie Healy Rae.

Seloth

Biggins wrote: »

LOL you wish!
Won't happen - the public don't want FF in again. End of story.

Wishful thinking.

While that the current view of FF you cant surly say they will never ever be in again.After the current way of things the party will surly shuffle it's self up,espcially with younger crowds and people coming in.Yeah they have a bad name for themselves now but they aren't toxic.

Biggins

Seloth wrote: »

While that the current view of FF you cant surly say they will never ever be in again.After the current way of things the party will surly shuffle it's self up,espcially with younger crowds and people coming in.Yeah they have a bad name for themselves now but they aren't toxic.

They can shuffle all they want but the ingrained tribalism and the same methodology of operating is ingrained within the party and its system of operating.

They are currently very toxic and while indeed we should never say never, for some time yet to come, the public will not accept such a marriage of the two parties.
FG would have much more to lose currently than FF would have to gain.

Grassroots_FF

Biggins wrote: »

They can shuffle all they want but the ingrained tribalism and the same methodology of operating is ingrained within the party and its system of operating.

They are currently very toxic and while indeed we should never say never, for some time yet to come, the public will not accept such a marriage of the two parties.
FG would have much more to lose currently than FF would have to gain.

Fine Gael would get alot more of their policies through if they were in coalition with a centre-right FF party with 25 seats than they would in coalition with a left wing Labour Party with 40 seats.

Biggins

Grassroots_FF wrote: »

Fine Gael would get alot more of their policies through if they were in coalition with a centre-right FF party with 25 seats than they would in coalition with a left wing Labour Party with 40 seats.

Maybe, may not but your desired marriage I doubt will ever seriously happen for some years to come, and then there will have to be ground-breaking fundamental changes in the FF party for it to happen.

Seloth

Biggins wrote: »

Maybe, may not but your desired marriage I doubt will ever seriously happen for some years to come, and then there will have to be ground-breaking fundamental changes in the FF party for it to happen.

Your quite right.

Image has gotton quite important with Irish politics atm,and it'd be foolish for FG to be involved with FF.I point towards the pushing of a general election for after the new year and budget.

It would be foolish for FG to join with FF as of such image,Again not in the near future but in a decade or so maybe.Tbh the two main reasons that I'm held against FG are Edna and its habit of recruiting local celebrity's too run in local governments for them.

The two partys have both excellent and meager politicians but as pointed out FF does need to change some of its organisational ways((But it seemingly is more so the party system rather than FF itself)) among few other things and with such a tainted image such a coalition is mere fantasy within the next decade.

Being from East-Cork,a strong FF basin I'm curious as to how this area shall vote.

Godge

Grassroots_FF wrote: »

I think we in FF have to be more mature and get past this. I don't like Fine Gael's westbrit image but at the end of the day we have the same economic policies and if we come together we can have a strong centre right government that doesn't rely on pinko lefties or cavemen like Jackie Healy Rae.

But it would rely on cavemen like O'Cuiv, O'Dea, Blaney, Ned O'Keeffe, need I go on.

FF has no policies except get re-elected. Your dearly departed Great Leader Bertie said so - do you have a portrait of him above the fireplace or is it only Dev who gets that?

charlemont

If they were in coalition together and running the country, then I think Ireland would be going backwards...

Godge

Seloth wrote: »

While that the current view of FF you cant surly say they will never ever be in again.After the current way of things the party will surly shuffle it's self up,espcially with younger crowds and people coming in.Yeah they have a bad name for themselves now but they aren't toxic.

Ha Ha. They have been hanging on for a March election hoping to expose divisions between FG and Labour. "Grassroots" has probably joined boards.ie as part of that campaign.

The problem is that they should have had the election in Janaury before people saw their pay packet, their social welfare cheque, their child benefit payment, their VHI increase, their Gas and ESB bill after the winter we are having. 17% is looking high at the moment.

Pherekydes

Grassroots_FF wrote: »

I think we in FF have to be more mature and get past this. I don't like Fine Gael's westbrit image but at the end of the day we have the same economic policies and if we come together we can have a strong centre right government that doesn't rely on pinko lefties or cavemen like Jackie Healy Rae.

You realise that by calling them "westbrit" you are pushing them away?

The fact of the matter is that FF can't buy up independents and smaller parties this time. The Gravy train has reached the terminus.

Grassroots_FF

Godge wrote: »

But it would rely on cavemen like O'Cuiv, O'Dea, Blaney, Ned O'Keeffe, need I go on.

FF has no policies except get re-elected. Your dearly departed Great Leader Bertie said so - do you have a portrait of him above the fireplace or is it only Dev who gets that?

That's completely unfair on O Cuiv and O'Dea. But Ned O'Keefe is a silly little man and does the party no favours.

And what about the cavemen in Fine Gael? Micheal Ring, PJ Sheehan, Dinny McGinley, Ulick Burke etc etc Are you saying these guys aren't a worry?

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/youll-get-nothing-when-were-in-power-fine-gael-td-tells-garda-2343743.html

freewheeler

Grassroots_FF wrote: »

Given the current polls I expect Fine Gael to win 70 seats and Fianna Fáil to maybe take 25 seats. That is more than enough for a centre-right coalition. There is very little difference between both parties so I think a coalition makes sense. Fine gael and Labour would have too many differences to govern effectively

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0107/poll.html

We can only hope that FG have more respect for themselves and more importantly the electorate than to even contemplate coalition with the gombeen men.:rolleyes:

Grassroots_FF

freewheeler wrote: »

We can only hope that FG have more respect for themselves and more importantly the electorate than to even contemplate coalition with the gombeen men.:rolleyes:

There's more gombeen men in Fine Gael than Fianna Fáil. Look at the backbenchers in Fine Gael. Troglodytes to a man. Or maybe you think John Perry from Sligo is good example of a national politician?

raymon

FF is far too tainted by corruption and scandal to be trusted again, I can't see them as part of any coalition. In fact sinn fein have more hope. Don't get me wrong , sinn fein are bottom of the barrel too

Godge

Grassroots_FF wrote: »

That's completely unfair on O Cuiv and O'Dea. But Ned O'Keefe is a silly little man and does the party no favours.

And what about the cavemen in Fine Gael? Micheal Ring, PJ Sheehan, Dinny McGinley, Ulick Burke etc etc Are you saying these guys aren't a worry?

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/youll-get-nothing-when-were-in-power-fine-gael-td-tells-garda-2343743.html

I see you are calling him O'Cuiv as well which is his birth-name. How can anyone have repsect for a man who changed his name to move up the ballot paper? As for his policy ideas which he got from his grandfather's knees, safe to say they belong in the past.

The Minister for Limerick, OK I accept is is an insult to decent honest cavemen everywhere to compare him to them. This is a man who lied in an affadavit and had the cheek to sue someone on that basis. Give me a break.

P.S. Who says I support FG? I only want FF out of Government for fifty years.

pjmn

Not sure it's time for it, but I do think it's a real possibility as I can't see agreement between FG and Labour on some major policy issues... time will tell.

freewheeler

Grassroots_FF wrote: »

There's more gombeen men in Fine Gael than Fianna Fáil. Look at the backbenchers in Fine Gael. Troglodytes to a man. Or maybe you think John Perry from Sligo is good example of a national politician?

having not done a 'gombeen men' census,i'm sure that that is entirely a matter of opinion-however the sad fact for our nation is that for the most part,its the FF gombeen men who have brought the country to its knees:mad:

Aidric

freewheeler wrote: »

We can only hope that FG have more respect for themselves and more importantly the electorate than to even contemplate coalition with the gombeen men.:rolleyes:

Fine Gael are led by one.

Wildlife Actor

Are FF mature enough to support a FG minority government if it keeps Labour from diluting their centre-right policies? Or is it business as usual: sit back and watch FG and Labour torment eachother?

marienbad

Seloth wrote: »

FF and FG are like two long time feuding family's...They may be more or less the same and have near enough the same values but despite the fact those in the family weren't around for the original fight they still some how manage to hold a grudge.

In another decade or so this may happen but its unlikely too happen anytime soon.Or at least thats my thought on in.

They might have the same policies ( and I emphasise might) but in no way have they the same values !

Grassroots_FF

marienbad wrote: »

They might have the same policies ( and I emphasise might) but in no way have they the same values !

explain the differences?

Liam Byrne

Grassroots_FF wrote: »

Fine Gael would get alot more of their policies through if they were in coalition with a centre-right FF party with 25 seats than they would in coalition with a left wing Labour Party with 40 seats.

How do you reckon FG would get in, in order to get those policies through ?

Because if I though FG would entertain a coalition with the toxic and corrupt FF I wouldn't be giving them my vote.

tim_holsters

Grassroots_FF wrote: »

Given the current polls I expect Fine Gael to win 70 seats and Fianna Fáil to maybe take 25 seats. That is more than enough for a centre-right coalition. There is very little difference between both parties so I think a coalition makes sense. Fine gael and Labour would have too many differences to govern effectively

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0107/poll.html

Will you be out canvassing yourself come election time GFF?

Liam Byrne

Grassroots_FF wrote: »

And what about the cavemen in Fine Gael? Micheal Ring, PJ Sheehan, Dinny McGinley, Ulick Burke etc etc Are you saying these guys aren't a worry?

Any chance you'd get rid of your own gombeen men - Ahern, Lenihan, Cowen, O'Dea - before chucking mud towards others ?

And if you reckon FG are so bad (ironic, given your standards), why would you want to be in government with them ?

raymon

Grassroots_FF wrote: »

explain the differences?

I would guess he is talking about condoning corruption, thievery, perjury, financial treason, tax evasion, forgery and that sort of thing

Grassroots_FF

raymon wrote: »

I would guess he is talking about condoning corruption, thievery, perjury, financial treason, tax evasion, forgery and that sort of thing

Only because Fine gael haven't had the power to do those things. Fine Gael were in government for 2 years in the last 24 years and in that time they gave us Micheal Lowry and one of the biggest corruption scandals in the history of the state. Don't forget when Micheal Noonan was health minister how he cocked up with the hepatitis scandal. Fine Geal have been out of power so long you seem to forget what they are really like.

marienbad

Grassroots_FF wrote: »

explain the differences?

Well the difference is that the only value that Fianna Fail have is the pursuit,retention and abuse of power to enrich themselves and their croneys.

Fianna Fail first, Ireland a distant second and in any conflict of interest the party is always first.

They have taken the party of Leamas,Colley, O'Malley and demeaned and debased it so that those men would no longer be welcome in it.

tim_holsters

I reiterate GFF, will you be out canvassing come election time?

Grassroots_FF

tim_holsters wrote: »

I reiterate GFF, will you be out canvassing come election time?

absolutely

Liam Byrne

Grassroots_FF wrote: »

absolutely

Can you come my way, pleeeease ?

I've LOADS of questions to try to determine what level of incompetence and corruption would make you abandon a party.

Mind you, I don't understand people who are aligned to a party "no matter what" in the first place, so it'd probably be beyond me.

marienbad

Grassroots_FF wrote: »

Only because Fine gael haven't had the power to do those things. Fine Gael were in government for 2 years in the last 24 years and in that time they gave us Micheal Lowry and one of the biggest corruption scandals in the history of the state. Don't forget when Micheal Noonan was health minister how he cocked up with the hepatitis scandal. Fine Geal have been out of power so long you seem to forget what they are really like.

What an extraordinary viewpoint !

Lets judge parties on how incompetant they would have been if they had been in power !

As if we did'nt have enough to be going on with as it is.

Liam Byrne

Grassroots_FF wrote: »

Only because Fine gael haven't had the power to do those things.

That's a bit like saying the only reason I'm not mugging old ladies is because I haven't had access to a knife or gun - i.e. pure mud-slinging speculation and bull.

Grassroots_FF wrote: »

Fine Gael were in government for 2 years in the last 24 years and in that time they gave us Micheal Lowry

Funniest unintentionally-apt statement on boards in years!

Grassroots_FF wrote: »

Fine Geal have been out of power so long you seem to forget what they are really like.

Last time they were in power they sowed the seeds for growth and the Celtic Tiger that FF managed to screw up.

So you're wrong again.......we can remember what they were like.

tim_holsters

Grassroots_FF wrote: »

absolutely

Good stuff.

What sort of reception do you expect? This time things will be different for you and your ilk I think.

In my local plans are well afoot to make our displeasure most evident.

People will be violent this time, but in a jocose way, the FF'rs in my area can expect eggs water bombs etc. I do hope your lot take it in good spirit.

Grassroots_FF

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Last time they were in power they sowed the seeds for growth and the Celtic Tiger that FF managed to screw up.

So you're wrong again.......we can remember what they were like.

My arse. The seeds of the Celtic Tiger go all the way back to what Fianna Fáil started in 1987 after Gerret Fitzgerald cocked everything up. When Fine Gael usurped power without a general election in 1994 they just contined FF policy and almost stuffed up the peace process.

Liam Byrne

Grassroots_FF wrote: »

My arse. The seeds of the Celtic Tiger go all the way back to what Fianna Fáil started in 1987 after Gerret Fitzgerald cocked everything up. When Fine Gael usurped power without a general election in 1994 they just contined FF policy and almost stuffed up the peace process.

Oh - so you're judging FG by what they almost did (and earlier what you guess they might have done) ?

How about judging your own crowd for absolutely stuffing up the economy ?

Grassroots_FF

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Oh - so you're judging FG by what they almost did (and earlier what you guess they might have done) ?

How about judging your own crowd for absolutely stuffing up the economy ?

Actually they did stuff up the peace process. Fine Gael sided with the tories against the nationalist community and this led to the collapse of the first IRA ceasefire.

And if you want to see what a stuffed up economy was like check the Fine Gael government from 1982-1987

Liam Byrne

Grassroots_FF wrote: »

Actually they did stuff up the peace process. Fine Gael sided with the tories against the nationalist community and this led to the collapse of the first IRA ceasefire.

That change from what you said earlier is even quicker than Ahern & Lenihan! :eek:

Grassroots_FF wrote: »

And if you want to see what a stuffed up economy was like check the Fine Gael government from 1982-1987

Ah yes, I'd forgotten about that day in 1987 that the IMF arrived.........silly me! :rolleyes:

Grassroots_FF

Liam Byrne wrote: »

That change from what you said earlier is even quicker than Ahern & Lenihan! :eek:



Ah yes, I'd forgotten about that day in 1987 that the IMF arrived.........silly me! :rolleyes:

I've been consistent in everything I've said. And I'd rather live in Ireland today than Fitzgerald's Ireland.

marienbad

Grassroots_FF wrote: »

My arse. The seeds of the Celtic Tiger go all the way back to what Fianna Fáil started in 1987 after Gerret Fitzgerald cocked everything up. When Fine Gael usurped power without a general election in 1994 they just contined FF policy and almost stuffed up the peace process.

Hey Hey there Grassroots ,with a bit of luck you and your mates will continue to believe this tripe right up to election day.

But I have to tell you it is all a bit ''the boy stood on the burning deck '' stuff , and we all know how that ended.

But keep the faith son, we are all dying to meet you on your canvassing rounds

marienbad

Grassroots_FF wrote: »

I've been consistent in everything I've said. And I'd rather live in Ireland today than Fitzgerald's Ireland.

Of course you would, thats because your medication is better now.

big b

GFF

The fact you're musing about sharing power with a party you clearly hold in contempt, just to hang on to a bit of power yourselves, says so much about you and your cronies.

Contemptible is one of the more printable words that springs to mind.

Liam Byrne

Grassroots_FF wrote: »

I've been consistent in everything I've said. And I'd rather live in Ireland today than Fitzgerald's Ireland.

You said earlier that they almost wrecked the peace process, and then later claimed that they did wreck it.

If the latter was true, then that's what you'd have said the first time.

So no, you're not being consistent.

Also, where or when you'd prefer to live is irrelevant. You claimed that FG did worse in the 80s, a claim that is immediately debunked by the fact that the IMF were only called in under FF's watch.

I'd "rather" live in the 80s than in Celtic Tiger Ireland, because of crime and a lack of a sense of community and an infatuation with pointless ****e like reality TV & vacuous celebrities, but that's irrelevant too.

irishh_bob

Grassroots_FF wrote: »

I think we in FF have to be more mature and get past this. I don't like Fine Gael's westbrit image but at the end of the day we have the same economic policies and if we come together we can have a strong centre right government that doesn't rely on pinko lefties or cavemen like Jackie Healy Rae.

if you dont like fine gaels west britt image , why did you ( plural ) create it

tim_holsters

Grassroots_FF wrote: »

I'll be keeping a hurl in the van in case any of you people try to start something so think twice before threatening any FF canvassers.

:pac:

marienbad

Grassroots_FF wrote: »

I'll be keeping a hurl in the van in case any of you people try to start something so think twice before threatening any FF canvassers.

What do you mean by ''you people'' ?

Pherekydes

Grassroots_FF wrote: »

I'll be keeping a hurl in the van in case any of you people try to start something so think twice before threatening any FF canvassers.

Why not canvass ghost estates?

You can claim the reaction on the doorstep wasn't hostile.

Besides, they're your natural constituency.

Grassroots_FF

Pherekydes wrote: »

Why not canvass ghost estates?

You can claim the reaction on the doorstep wasn't hostile.

Besides, they're your natural constituency.

I've had just about enough of the smart comments. If you can't have mature debate then I'm not going to post here anymore.

Liam Byrne

Grassroots_FF wrote: »

I've had just about enough of the smart comments. If you can't have mature debate then I'm not going to post here anymore.

:rolleyes:

I think the standard for the "debate" was set once comments like "westbrit image" appeared, plus even the thought that FG would entertain joining with the corrupt incompetent FF, especially given what you - as an FF member - think of them.

Not to mention the accusations as to what FG "might" have done, the switch from the facts (how much worse FF have done) to "where you'd prefer to live" and pretty much at least one line from every post of yours.