Why Is Ireland So Afraid Of Progress?

RockinRolla

When we had the headshops - people marched up and down the streets and got them closed down. For what? Just so they could instill their values in the rest of society? Nobody forced those people into those establishments. That doesn't seem to be comparable to a free, democratic society to me.

The same thing with Monto. Talbot Street in Dublin was the largest red light and entertainment district in Europe and then the church got it all closed down. For what? So they could impose their religious beliefs on the rest of us?

When will we understand that Ireland is a multi-cultural society and change this draconian attitude that obliges us to control other people. We have lost all our civil liberties and freedom; if we ever had any to begin with.

FatherLen

i am so bored i nearly passed ou...........

phasers

Drugs and hookers != progress ffs

RockinRolla

phasers wrote: »

Drugs and hookers != progress ffs

Open your mind a little bit.

It's not just that. Try and see the bigger picture here. We're conservative as fcuk. We're working with legislation drawn up in the 1930's which control social values today. It's unacceptable. Why can't we update outdated laws to progress.

phasers

Can you give any examples other than prostitutes and drugs? Ireland currently has a lot more areas it needs to focus on.


"progressive" isn't always good.

Gummy Panda

phasers wrote: »

Drugs and hookers != progress ffs

Are you sure as the guy in the rap video says it is?

seamus

RockinRolla wrote: »

We're working with legislation drawn up in the 1930's which control social values today.

The people who vote the most are those who were born in the 1930's and 1940's. Irish politics has nothing to do with "progress" and everything to do with getting elected.

thetonynator

RockinRolla wrote: »

Open your mind a little bit.

It's not just that. Try and see the bigger picture here. We're conservative as fcuk. We're working with legislation drawn up in the 1930's which control social values today. It's unacceptable. Why can't we update outdated laws to progress.

Point out the bigger picture, if drugs and hookers are the only things you can think of to represent progress in ireland, then we're fairly progressed as a country.

senordingdong

RockinRolla wrote: »

When we had the headshops - people marched up and down the streets and got them closed down. For what? Just so they could instill their values in the rest of society? Nobody forced those people into those establishments. That doesn't seem to be comparable to a free, democratic society to me.

The same thing with Monto. Talbot Street in Dublin was the largest red light and entertainment district in Europe and then the church got it all closed down. For what? So they could impose their religious beliefs on the rest of us?

When will we understand that Ireland is a multi-cultural society and change this draconian attitude that obliges us to control other people. We have lost all our civil liberties and freedom; if we ever had any to begin with.

Because changes suit those that give the government most of it's support.

Humans eh!

phasers wrote: »

Drugs and hookers != progress ffs

Driving both underground doesn't get rid of either, but merely increases the danger to people involved. I think that regulation is a better way to monitor and control both rather than hysterical banning for personal moral or religious reasons. progress would be to take them out of the hands of the viscious scumbags who benefit from the "If I can't see it it's not there brigade" and their imposition of their personal ideas on us all.

Grassroots_FF

RockinRolla wrote: »

When we had the headshops - people marched up and down the streets and got them closed down. For what? Just so they could instill their values in the rest of society? Nobody forced those people into those establishments. That doesn't seem to be comparable to a free, democratic society to me.

The same thing with Monto. Talbot Street in Dublin was the largest red light and entertainment district in Europe and then the church got it all closed down. For what? So they could impose their religious beliefs on the rest of us?

When will we understand that Ireland is a multi-cultural society and change this draconian attitude that obliges us to control other people. We have lost all our civil liberties and freedom; if we ever had any to begin with.

You've got a funny idea about what progress is. Hookers on every corner and lads stoned out of their minds isn't what Irish people want. People like you won't be happy until there's an aborted foetus injected with heroin lying in every back alley.

Typical liberal rubbish.

seamus

Grassroots_FF wrote: »

You've got a funny idea about what progress is. Hookers on every corner and lads stoned out of their minds isn't what Irish people want. People like you won't be happy until there's an aborted foetus lying on every corner.

No clearly we'd prefer to pretend that none of this happens and instead we have beaten & abused hookers in private buildings, lads stoned out of their mind anyway, and thousands of aborted babies exported to the UK.

Irish politicians simply have no testicles when it comes to the difficult issues. They cow-tow to the catholic church and stick their fingers in their ears.

Grassroots_FF

seamus wrote: »

No clearly we'd prefer to pretend that none of this happens and instead we have hookers in private buildings, lads stoned out of their mind anyway, and thousands of aborted babies exported to the UK.

Irish politicians simply have no testicles when it comes to the difficult issues. They cow-tow to the catholic church and stick their fingers in their ears.

I'm suspicious of this liberal agenda to force their own values on every one else. And anyone who doesn't agree with them is dismissed as small minded and backwards:rolleyes:

RockinRolla

phasers wrote: »

Can you give any examples other than prostitutes and drugs? Ireland currently has a lot more areas it needs to focus on.

*Fianna Fail destroying foreign investment by dithering over gambling legislation and securing the stranglehold of monopolies.
*Controlling behaviour they deem suitable for individuals and property owners such as smoking bans.
*Not allowing free choice through vilification, stigma and discrimination against prostitutes and abortion.
*Allowing a religious institution to control our country.
*Allowing religious institutions to educate our children.
*By not providing comprehensive sex education in school that teach our children about safety as well as emotional aspects.
*By not separating church and state.
*Nightlife entertainment is still not a legal entity in this country.
*Religious views on euthanasia.
*Draconian drug policies.
*Lobbyists interests above the interests of the taxpayers.
***** health service.
*Blasphemy laws.
*Restricting the Information Act.
*Bureaucracy.
*Other interests before the people - laws on alcohol.
*Tax, tax, tax.

Let's start there.

baalthor

RockinRolla wrote: »

When we had the headshops - people marched up and down the streets and got them closed down. For what?

Well, where were all the people marching up and down to keep them open?

twinQuins

Grassroots_FF wrote: »

I'm suspicious of this liberal agenda to force their own values on every one else.

Yeah, ensuring people have a personal choice when it comes to these matters is actually "forcing" them.

TheZohanS

Why Can't We All Just Move To Africa And Start Again?

Why Is Walking Down Cannon Street in Waterfod Naked A Criminal Offence?

How Is Ireland Such A Sh!thole?

Ireland Is Afraid Of The Sex Culture

Why Are People In This Country So Fcuking Greedy?

If Marijuana Was Decriminalised, We Would Have A Great Health System!

Would You Have Sex With A Transexual For €1,000?

Let me guess...you're not getting laid, don't like Ireland and smoke dope?

RichieC

Grassroots_FF wrote: »

I'm suspicious of this liberal agenda to force their own values on every one else. And anyone who doesn't agree with them is dismissed as small minded and backwards:rolleyes:

Same can be said both ways, tbh. just because you have the status quo on your side doesn't automatically make you more right.

They were nearly closing prisons in Holland due to a shortage on criminals, I think they are importing criminals from Belgium now to avoid the closures.

food for thought.

Grassroots_FF

RockinRolla wrote: »

*Fianna Fail destroying foreign investment by dithering over gambling legislation and securing the stranglehold of monopolies.
*Controlling behaviour they deem suitable for individuals and property owners such as smoking bans.
*Not allowing free choice through vilification, stigma and discrimination against prostitutes and abortion.
*Allowing a religious institution to control our country.
*Allowing religious institutions to educate our children.
*By not providing comprehensive sex education in school that teach our children about safety as well as emotional aspects.
*By not separating church and state.
*Nightlife entertainment is still not a legal entity in this country.
*Religious views on euthanasia.
*Draconian drug policies.
*Lobbyists interests above the interests of the taxpayers.
***** health service.
*Blasphemy laws.
*Restricting the Information Act.
*Bureaucracy.
*Other interests before the people - laws on alcohol.
*Tax, tax, tax.

Let's start there.

Oh I get it, you're one of these libertarian loons who believe there should be no taxes and every school, hospital and road should be privatised:rolleyes:

RockinRolla

Grassroots_FF wrote: »

I'm suspicious of this liberal agenda to force their own values on every one else. And anyone who doesn't agree with them is dismissed as small minded and backwards:rolleyes:

Actually, you've got it all backwards.

It's the people who are sick with it all that are not trying to force their views on anyone else but to provide a framework for civil liberties and give that do want to participate, the freedom of choice. The freedom that is currently lacking in our society. It's your view, that tries to impose their values on US!

Sisko

Still too many religious people in Ireland and small minded backward people.


Look how long it took before we could have divorce.

Look at what year it became legal to be gay



lol @ grassroots_ff , why don't you move to Alabama!

Ninjedi

The only thing I have ever seen our government do both quickly and properly, closing down the headshops.

Catholic Ireland is not going to go away any time soon

How about the abortion issue then if hookers and drugs aren't doing it for you? We're breaking EU law denying women a basic right to life-saving medical treatment in favour of the life of a child that will in many cases die along with the mother because of her illness, and now that the cat is out of the bag the government are going to do what? Discuss it! Brilliant, let's not fix our antiquated, dangerous and sexist laws, let's talk about how we can avoid doing it in order to keep as much of the senior vote as possible for the next election!

Also, taxpayer coughing up €1.3bn compared to churches €128mil for the abuse compensation? And yer man Woods defending it saying there was no other option! Anyone that thinks this country isn't still run by the church, or more accurately by people who want to at least give the impression that they're following the mandates of the church is kidding themselves. The progressive thing to do would be to hold them fully responsible, insist on full legal proceedings and penalties for anyone that harmed a child regardless of their position or title, the same for anyone who knew and did not turn them in, and full financial reimbursement from what happens to be one of the richest organisations in the entire world.

Those two just from the news today. I hate this goddam country so much sometimes.

johnmcdnl

didn't the head shop drugs kill a couple of lads down in sligo or something which is what turned a lot of people's opinions on them - also they had zero regulation and when you looked at what was in the stuff people were obviously going to be pissed

90% of the population calls themselves Catholic so the church was speaking for the "vast majority" of the country as we accept them as our religious leaders as long as we're members of the church..
you can say your an atheist if you want but if your still on the churchs books their going to use that authority to stand up for your "religious rights"


besides having legal highs and having hookers walking round the place doesn't exactly equal progress - and doesn't promote the look of Ireland to the outside world (well apart from the stoners and the likes)

having a roaring prostitute scene on the streets of the capital isn't going to help ireland's image is all so it's far from progress

Grassroots_FF

RichieC wrote: »

Same can be said both ways, tbh. just because you have the status quo on your side doesn't automatically make you more right.

They were nearly closing prisons in Holland due to a shortage on criminals, I think they are importing criminals from Belgium now to avoid the closures.

food for thought.

Well obviously if you make every crime legal then they'll be very few people to lock up

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Grassroots_FF wrote: »

You've got a funny idea about what progress is. Hookers on every corner and lads stoned out of their minds isn't what Irish people want. People like you won't be happy until there's an aborted foetus injected with heroin lying in every back alley.

Typical liberal rubbish.

Grassroots_FF wrote: »

I'm suspicious of this liberal agenda to force their own values on every one else. And anyone who doesn't agree with them is dismissed as small minded and backwards:rolleyes:

By "liberal" you mean free, sensible and individual, right? Personally, I'm sick of the scaremongering conservatist rubbish highlighted above. I mean come on... think about it before you post it.

As someone stated above, the reason we don't have progress is because too many people are against it because they're scared of it and it's far more comforting to let someone else do your thinking for you. Progress means change and change is always scary.

RichieC

Grassroots_FF wrote: »

Well obviously if you make every crime legal then they'll be very few people to lock up

Every crime legal? I dare you to get caught in holland with coke or any other class A, hell, get caught pissing into a canal, you'll have the **** kicked of you then locked up, the police there don't pull punches, I saw one guy paraded down the street hand cuffed to the arse of a police horse for acting the maggot drunk.

no, Prostitution and weed (not even actually legal) does not equal every crime being legal.

thetonynator

RockinRolla wrote: »

*Fianna Fail destroying foreign investment by dithering over gambling legislation and securing the stranglehold of monopolies.
*Controlling behaviour they deem suitable for individuals and property owners such as smoking bans.
*Not allowing free choice through vilification, stigma and discrimination against prostitutes and abortion.
*Allowing a religious institution to control our country.
*Allowing religious institutions to educate our children.
*By not providing comprehensive sex education in school that teach our children about safety as well as emotional aspects.
*By not separating church and state.
*Nightlife entertainment is still not a legal entity in this country.
*Religious views on euthanasia.
*Draconian drug policies.
*Lobbyists interests above the interests of the taxpayers.
***** health service.
*Blasphemy laws.
*Restricting the Information Act.
*Bureaucracy.
*Other interests before the people - laws on alcohol.
*Tax, tax, tax.

Let's start there.

*Ireland doesnt need even more people broke thanks to gambling and foreign companies taking all the gambling money with them back to wherever they came from. Thats not progress ffs!
*Most people in this country are in favour of the smoking ban as they dont smoke and dont have to inhale second hand smoke in every pub and restaurant and indoor place in the country.
*Prostitution isnt progress.
*The catholic church do not control the country, and haven't had any real influence in years. The influence in the constitution does remain, although it becomes less with every referendum.
*I dont know when you went to school, but sex education is quite good in schools now. Maybe it wasnt in the past, but isn't progress about changing in the future? We cant change whats already happened..
*Church and state are seperate.
*Euthanasia and drug policies are in line with the vast majority of european countries.
*Lobbyists usually represent a group of taxpayers.
*Laws on alcohol (bar one or two of them) are generally for the better . . later opening times wouldnt exactly benefit the country, and does it really matter if alcoholics cant get drink until half 12 one morning of the week or two days a year?

*and no economy can run without tax.

RockinRolla

Grassroots_FF wrote: »

Oh I get it, you're one of these libertarian loons who believe there should be no taxes and every school, hospital and road should be privatised:rolleyes:

You're so disenchanted with modern reality, it's absurd.

Someone please HELP US ALL if those morons Fianna Fail EVER GET INTO GOVERNMENT AGAIN! They are NOT a democratic party! Explain why they **** on the Freedom of Information Act? Why did they restrict Irish citizens from understanding what they were doing to this country!? Go on SAY IT!

pawrick

Is there not a middle ground some where between drugs and hookers on every corner and "an aborted foetus injected with heroin lying in every back alley"? Seriously, talk about extreams!

Fact is no amount of ranting on internet forums will change anything - you want change you do something about it - vote for someone who represents your interests, if not happy with them, it's a democratic country put yourself forward.
Most people prefer the middle ground on issues and tend to avoid change unless they have to. In order for big changes to be made people need to be willing to do something rather then bicker and blame religion (a lot of us can vote now who grew up in a less religeous country). This applies to all points of views, we have too many internet warriors in Ireland.

As a moderatively conservative person there are a lot of things I agree with that others would not - but once it doesn't harm what I consider society or myself I generally don't care.

thetonynator

Sisko wrote: »

Still too many religious people in Ireland and small minded backward people.


Look how long it took before we could have divorce.

Look at what year it became legal to be gay



lol @ grassroots_ff , why don't you move to Alabama!

So progress is stopping people being religious?


Progress - in the future, not looking back complaining how long it took to get something that is now in place.

orourkeda

RockinRolla wrote: »

When we had the headshops - people marched up and down the streets and got them closed down. For what? Just so they could instill their values in the rest of society? Nobody forced those people into those establishments. That doesn't seem to be comparable to a free, democratic society to me.

The same thing with Monto. Talbot Street in Dublin was the largest red light and entertainment district in Europe and then the church got it all closed down. For what? So they could impose their religious beliefs on the rest of us?

When will we understand that Ireland is a multi-cultural society and change this draconian attitude that obliges us to control other people. We have lost all our civil liberties and freedom; if we ever had any to begin with.

You're pissed off at the lack of coke and hookers. I feel your pain.

thetonynator

RockinRolla wrote: »

You're so disenchanted with modern reality, it's absurd.

Someone please HELP US ALL if those morons Fianna Fail EVER GET INTO GOVERNMENT AGAIN! They are NOT a democratic party! Explain why they **** on the Freedom of Information Act? Why did they restrict Irish citizens from understanding what they were doing to this country!? Go on SAY IT!

They were voted for 3 times unfortunately, which gives them the mandate to do whatever they want, within the constitution, and pending the approval of the seanad and the president.

orourkeda

seamus wrote: »

No clearly we'd prefer to pretend that none of this happens and instead we have beaten & abused hookers in private buildings, lads stoned out of their mind anyway, and thousands of aborted babies exported to the UK.

Irish politicians simply have no testicles when it comes to the difficult issues. They cow-tow to the catholic church and stick their fingers in their ears.

Whereas they should be cow girling a hooker with their fingers up their arse

humanji

OP, I kind of agree with what you're meaning, but you're explaining it terribly. Drugs and prostitution are the elast of our worries and banning them is nota sign of a lack of progress.

The republic is less that 100 years old. The US is older and many area are more religiously ruled than us, have harsher laws concerning soft drugs and prostitution in all forms is illegal.

Things don't happen over night.

Also, remember than the majority may not necessarilly agree with you, so forcing a minority belief on people is just as backward as some of the examples you gave.

thetonynator

RichieC wrote: »

Every crime legal? I dare you to get caught in holland with coke or any other class A, hell, get caught pissing into a canal, you'll have the **** kicked of you then locked up, the police there don't pull punches, I saw one guy paraded down the street hand cuffed to the arse of a police horse for acting the maggot drunk.

no, Prostitution and weed (not even actually legal) does not equal every crime being legal.

So all of our criminals in prison that are in excess of the number holland has are there because of wed and prostitution? No, our problems certainly wont be solved by that, i dont have the stats but i'm fairly sure than most of our prison population arent there from prostitution and weed.

JustAddWater

RockinRolla wrote: »

When we had the headshops - people marched up and down the streets and got them closed down. For what? Just so they could instill their values in the rest of society?

Were you living under a rock or something?

It wasn't for a bit of craic they closed these shops. The sh*te they sold was actually linked to deaths.

http://www.highlandradio.com/2010/02/12/donegal-woman-calls-for-headshop-ban-after-her-brothers-death/

http://www.braypeople.ie/premium/news/head-shop-link-to-death-2370085.html

And that's just Ireland, i'm sure you'll find similar stories in the UK news

RockinRolla wrote: »

Nobody forced those people into those establishments.

I would also suggest you read up a little on peer pressure

humanji

orourkeda wrote: »

You're pissed off at the lack of coke and hookers. I feel your pain.

You should become a mod!

RockinRolla

thetonynator wrote: »

*Ireland doesnt need even more people broke thanks to gambling and foreign companies taking all the gambling money with them back to wherever they came from. Thats not progress ffs!
*Most people in this country are in favour of the smoking ban as they dont smoke and dont have to inhale second hand smoke in every pub and restaurant and indoor place in the country.
*Prostitution isnt progress.
*The catholic church do not control the country, and haven't had any real influence in years. The influence in the constitution does remain, although it becomes less with every referendum.
*I dont know when you went to school, but sex education is quite good in schools now. Maybe it wasnt in the past, but isn't progress about changing in the future? We cant change whats already happened..
*Church and state are seperate.
*Euthanasia and drug policies are in line with the vast majority of european countries.
*Lobbyists usually represent a group of taxpayers.
*Laws on alcohol (bar one or two of them) are generally for the better . . later opening times wouldnt exactly benefit the country, and does it really matter if alcoholics cant get drink until half 12 one morning of the week or two days a year?

*and no economy can run without tax.

No! This is NOT in line with the principles of a free democratic society, sorry about you. Give the individual the choice to live and NEVER impose your values on anybody else!

pawrick wrote: »

Is there not a middle ground some where between drugs and hookers on every corner and "an aborted foetus injected with heroin lying in every back alley"? Seriously, talk about extreams!

Fact is no amount of ranting on internet forums will change anything - you want change you do something about it - vote for someone who represents your interests, if not happy with them, it's a democratic country put yourself forward.
Most people prefer the middle ground on issues and tend to avoid change unless they have to. In order for big changes to be made people need to be willing to do something rather then bicker and blame religion (a lot of us can vote now who grew up in a less religeous country). This applies to all points of views, we have too many internet warriors in Ireland.

As a moderatively conservative person there are a lot of things I agree with that others would not - but once it doesn't harm what I consider society or myself I generally don't care.

The people have no choice...wake up to the illusion of choice. There is no direct democracy. We can't petition in this country!

orourkeda

humanji wrote: »

You should become a mod!

Thanks but no thanks

Biggins

RockinRolla wrote: »

...It's unacceptable. Why can't we update outdated laws to progress.

Who do we have in power again? Who long does it take them to do anything - never mind do anything right!

RichieC

thetonynator wrote: »

So all of our criminals in prison that are in excess of the number holland has are there because of wed and prostitution? No, our problems certainly wont be solved by that, i dont have the stats but i'm fairly sure than most of our prison population arent there from prostitution and weed.

It's obviously not hurting them is what I'm saying, besides, weed and prostitution only put more work on the gardas plate, they could be chasing shop robbers with bags on their faces.

Grassroots_FF

RockinRolla wrote: »

No! This is NOT in line with the principles of a free democratic society, sorry about you. Give the individual the choice to live and NEVER impose your values on anybody else!

Having the right to breath smoke in someone elses face while they they have tea and a sandwich is not democracy despite what you say

RockinRolla

RichieC wrote: »

It's obviously not hurting them is what I'm saying, besides, weed and prostitution only put more work on the gardas plate, they could be chasing shop robbers with bags on their faces.

I agree that Gardai must be allocated to violent communities in a bid to tackle violent behaviour. Criminalising victimless crimes is against the principle of a free democratic society! Let the people live in whatever way they deem fit to live their lives so long as it does not infrindge on the rights of others!

Jesus Christ! Get these undemocratic evil bastards OUT of government and NEVER EVER VOTE FOR THEM AGAIN!

Grassroots_FF wrote: »

Having the right to breath smoke in someone elses face while they they have tea and a sandwich is not democracy despite what you say

A rule for a particular venue MUST be made by that venues owners! It must be made by the property owner to decide what behaviour is acceptable on their premises. Why can't you understand that?! Nobody forces you to go anywhere you dont want to go!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Grassroots_FF wrote: »

Having the right to breath smoke in someone elses face while they they have tea and a sandwich is not democracy despite what you say

Are you saying people are having sex with prostitutes and smoking hash in teashops now? Ban teashops, I say! Dens of iniquuity!

Seriously. If it's done in public, you have a point. If it's done in private, you have no say in another adult's life. Sorry to break the news to you.

Grassroots_FF

RockinRolla wrote: »

I agree that Gardai must be allocated to violent communities in a bid to tackle violent behaviour. Criminalising victimless crimes is against the principle of a free democratic society! Let the people live in whatever way they deem fit to live their lives so long as it does not infrindge on the rights of others!

Jesus Christ! Get these undemocratic evil bastards OUT of government and NEVER EVER VOTE FOR THEM AGAIN!



A rule for a particular venue MUST be made by that venues owners! It must be made by the property owner to decide what behaviour is acceptable on their premises. Why can't you understand that?! Nobody forces you to go anywhere you dont want to go!

Tell us what a free democratic society is exactly and give us an example of where it exists?

superelliptic

Humans eh! wrote: »

Driving both underground doesn't get rid of either, but merely increases the danger to people involved. I think that regulation is a better way to monitor and control both rather than hysterical banning for personal moral or religious reasons. progress would be to take them out of the hands of the viscious scumbags who benefit from the "If I can't see it it's not there brigade" and their imposition of their personal ideas on us all.

Fair enough, but I think your looking at the problem the wrong way. I get that you see prostitutes as victims (and many of them are to some degree) but you cant help them in their situation by legalising their trade. If you want to help a prostitute, help them get out of prostitution and into care.

I think that Ireland is in a better position to combat drug abuse and prostitution that most countries, mainly because we are geographicaly seperate from mainland europe, and we have a small population. When it comes to drugs, there needs to be more Gardai involved in both detection and enforcement, and most importantly there needs to be a reform of the sentencing handed down by the courts. IMO if a drug importer is caught bringing in a lorry load of hash or coke, he should get life - 25 years. No exceptions. Same goes for anyone caught trafficking people into the country as part of the sex trade - send the hookers home, lock up the trafficker. Thats part of the reason why drugs et al continue to come into the country - because its widely known that we're a soft touch when it comes to punishment.

Grassroots_FF

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Are you saying people are having sex with prostitutes and smoking hash in teashops now?

Well you wouldn't know with some of these newer "coffee" shops

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Grassroots_FF wrote: »

Well you wouldn't know with some of these newer "coffee" shops

Are you making seriosuly suggesting this here? Scared of something you think might be happening but isn't?

Also, FF and proud hasn't been around lately. Am I sensing a troll and a rereg in one go?

seamus

Grassroots_FF wrote: »

I'm suspicious of this liberal agenda to force their own values on every one else. And anyone who doesn't agree with them is dismissed as small minded and backwards:rolleyes:

I'm sick of the conservative agenda which currently pushes some people's private values onto everyone's choices. And anyone who suggests that people be allowed to make choices for themselves is dismissed as liberal and short-sighted :rolleyes:

Biggins

thetonynator wrote: »

* The catholic church do not control the country, and haven't had any real influence in years. The influence in the constitution does remain, although it becomes less with every referendum.
* I dont know when you went to school, but sex education is quite good in schools now. Maybe it wasnt in the past, but isn't progress about changing in the future? We cant change whats already happened..
* Church and state are separate.
* Lobbyists usually represent a group of taxpayers.

A lot of your points are good however the Catholic church in this country still has pulling power in this state. I mean that is obvious to this day - just look at the special deal they got away with concerning those that were abused in their care!

Generally sex education has improved however in church/religious based schools some backward teaching still persists.
I was contacted last year by a girl from a Loretto convent school who spoke about how the nuns there refuse (or to allow modern hired teachers) to teach about contraception, how not to get pregnant and how to avoid STD's.
Naturally they are following the edicts set out from Rome - and these edicts are allowed overrule the Irish state as regards what should be taught in schools - and they are allowed get away with it!

I firmly believe that church and state are still in bed with each other - only they are doing it more quietly and under the covers!

"Lobbyists usually represent a group of taxpayers."
...Or organisations such as the Vintners org' (and it's ilk), RGDATA, or other setup's that do lobbying on behalf of vested members that are in such bodies for the sake of eventual increased personal monetary gain.

RockinRolla

superelliptic wrote: »

Fair enough, but I think your looking at the problem the wrong way. I get that you see prostitutes as victims (and many of them are to some degree) but you cant help them in their situation by legalising their trade. If you want to help a prostitute, help them get out of prostitution and into care.

I think that Ireland is in a better position to combat drug abuse and prostitution that most countries, mainly because we are geographicaly seperate from mainland europe, and we have a small population. When it comes to drugs, there needs to be more Gardai involved in both detection and enforcement, and most importantly there needs to be a reform of the sentencing handed down by the courts. IMO if a drug importer is caught bringing in a lorry load of hash or coke, he should get life - 25 years. No exceptions. Same goes for anyone caught trafficking people into the country as part of the sex trade - send the hookers home, lock up the trafficker. Thats part of the reason why drugs et al continue to come into the country - because its widely known that we're a soft touch when it comes to punishment.

But your view is the problem, don't you see?

By keeping the trade underground you allow organised crime figures to control and import women for sex work! You CAN'T BEAT IT, SO PROTECT THEM! Regulate it! If a consenting adult wants to prostitute in exchange for money, that is their choice and no one elses! Why can't you understand that? If you don't accept that, you do not believe in a democratic society, its as simple as that. You believe in censorship and control!

By the use of language you used, it is obvious you speak in negative terms of prostitution. Why do you think this is a negative profession? We must protect these women! NOW!