Low Skilled Jobs - How can we provide them?

Sleepy

Given that most of the jobs we've lost over the last 2 years have been in the construction, retail and manufacturing sectors we have a major problem that doesn't seem to be being addressed from what I can see.

The jobs we're creating (largely through the IDA and Enterprise Ireland) are, in the main, technical positions involving IT or Pharmaceuticals. While some lower-skilled administerial and maintenance positions will no-doubt be created alongside these, the bulk of the jobs we can win at present are not ones the vast majority of the live register can fill or, even more depressingly, be re-trained to fill.

The industries that most of our live register have come from aren't exactly the most productive for an economy either: selling things to each other and building houses to sell to each other.

Without much in the way of natural resources and with a cost of living that effectively rules out our being able to compete in the manufacturing industries a global economy how can we ever hope to get unemployment back down to a low level?

What labour intensive industries can we seek to compete in at a global level? Not everyone can be trained to be a software developer, bio-chemist etc.

macannrb

Sleepy wrote: »

Given that most of the jobs we've lost over the last 2 years have been in the construction, retail and manufacturing sectors we have a major problem that doesn't seem to be being addressed from what I can see.

The jobs we're creating (largely through the IDA and Enterprise Ireland) are, in the main, technical positions involving IT or Pharmaceuticals. While some lower-skilled administerial and maintenance positions will no-doubt be created alongside these, the bulk of the jobs we can win at present are not ones the vast majority of the live register can fill or, even more depressingly, be re-trained to fill.

The industries that most of our live register have come from aren't exactly the most productive for an economy either: selling things to each other and building houses to sell to each other.

Without much in the way of natural resources and with a cost of living that effectively rules out our being able to compete in the manufacturing industries a global economy how can we ever hope to get unemployment back down to a low level?

What labour intensive industries can we seek to compete in at a global level? Not everyone can be trained to be a software developer, bio-chemist etc.

If you think about it, most asian countries have taken on the low skilled jobs. Even the likes of Mexico is having problems holding onto low skilled jobs. Appearantly socks in china can be made at 11c a pair (source The world is flat by Thomas Friedman). We just can't compete on this level, especially if Mexico is having difficulty doing the same. The wages demanded here are simply way too high.

Hence why people have been complaining why we need a better education system and people with better maths skills.

Meanwhile the Asian workforce is upskilling themselves in Finance, IT, Maths and other high end jobs. They are simply more eagar to work then we are, and at far lower wages.


There will always be jobs at the low skills level, bins will always need collection, but these services have to be paid for essentially by the productive/exporting population . So the better the productive/exporting population the better the services that can be provided. But without a decent productive/exporting sector there is no need for a sector supporting these jobs.

zig

perhaps we must broaden our horizons out of desperation, like promote gambling tourism and build casinos. Or perhaps look to the far future , hire a bunch of engineers and designers from the likes of Toyota etc, and create a semi state owned company that produces a new cost effective electric or hybrid car. The car could be Irish designed and Irish produced. All manufacturing could be done here, including parts. Obviously this would cost billions and billions in investment hence I mean long term future.

We need homegrown manufacturing industry here, simple as. We have nothing solid, we hop from light industry to light industry boasting about the fact that Google are coming here creating a handful of jobs.

We need to try cut our dependence on Foreign investment and create our industry.

Sleepy

macannrb, while I'm all for investment in education, I'm wondering if there really is a sufficient level of people who are capable of working within the "knowledge economy" to support those who aren't in lower skilled jobs.

Or, more precisely, if the numbers we currently have capable of working in the areas in which we can compete can both support those unable to work in these areas whilst also investing heavily in education...

Sleepy

zig wrote: »

perhaps we must broaden our horizons out of desperation, like promote gambling tourism and build casinos.

Legalization of marijuana etc. could also help in this area...

Or perhaps look to the far future , hire a bunch of engineers and designers from the likes of Toyota etc, and create a semi state owned company that produces a new cost effective electric or hybrid car. The car could be Irish designed and Irish produced. All manufacturing could be done here, including parts. Obviously this would cost billions and billions in investment hence I mean long term future.

We need homegrown manufacturing industry here, simple as. We have nothing solid, we hop from light industry to light industry boasting about the fact that Google are coming here creating a handful of jobs.

We need to try cut our dependence on Foreign investment and create our industry.

I don't see how we can do this without throwing the baby out with the bathwater though. To have a cost base low enough to be able to produce these cars at a price-level which the market would accept for them we'd be competing directly with the likes of Korea and China. In order to to that, we'd need to be paying the workers of this car company peanuts and would create a huge social equality issues when we live in a country where we can attract high-paying jobs for those with the capacity to work in finance, fund-management, software development etc.

Cookie_Monster

remove automation and other advanced technology from industry and you'll ahve hundred of thousands of low cost jobs. Obviously costs would skyrocket and time to get anything done would too.

A very simple example would be the removal of the auto till in shops, meaning you could employ 1 or 2 more people on tills again. But these companies would have no interest in such.

The biggest labour industries of the past like agriculture only require 1 or 2 people and machinery these days. A combine harvester can do in a day what it took 20 men to do in a week way back when, but can you honestly see us going back to that just for jobs?

zig

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

remove automation and other advanced technology from industry and you'll ahve hundred of thousands of low cost jobs. Obviously costs would skyrocket and time to get anything done would too.

A very simple example would be the removal of the auto till in shops, meaning you could employ 1 or 2 more people on tills again. But these companies would have no interest in such.

The biggest labour industries of the past like agriculture only require 1 or 2 people and machinery these days. A combine harvester can do in a day what it took 20 men to do in a week way back when, but can you honestly see us going back to that just for jobs?

Thats insanity, you cant just create jobs from thin air, basically forcing companies all over the country to take on more staff.
We'd have nothing left in the country if we did.

kuntboy

Maybe we should just get used to having a vast underclass of permanently unemployed.

Cookie_Monster

zig wrote: »

Thats insanity, you cant just create jobs from thin air, basically forcing companies all over the country to take on more staff.
We'd have nothing left in the country if we did.

yes, I know its insanely impractical, was just giving the example of how much technology has made people redundant over the decades

RichardAnd

A good thread point and one I've come to believe in. We're never going to see meaningful employment created through the "smart economy" because we just can't compete with other countries in that regard. It's not just our poor, antiquated system of education, places like India and China just seem to have better work ethics and, to be quite honest, a better efficacy to improve themselves and to master what they work at.

Thus, the concept that Ireland can become some sort of global center of knowledge, science and technology is absurd. There will always be a science and technology base here but paddy the plumber and joey the bricky are not going to become C++ programmers through a 6 month FAS course.

In short, we need masses of Joe Anybody jobs before we see a real drop in the unemployment numbers.

jimmycrackcorm

We need an economic policy that encourages entrepreneurship through self-employment. At present the policy is completely the opposite, e.g. if you start up a business and it fails you cannot even claim any welfare benefits.

Low skilled people aren't necessarily lacking an ability to create their own business endeavours. I think back to an episode of the Irish Dragons Den where a guy produced a cosmetic plastic surround for a toilet pipe. Better doing something like that than sitting on the dole....

cavedave

Sleepy

What labour intensive industries can we seek to compete in at a global level? Not everyone can be trained to be a software developer, bio-chemist etc.

But maybe more of us could be if there was not such an anti intellectual environment in Ireland.

Take television for example

Stargazing live on the BBC is live astronomy (with mainly Irish presenters)
On Icelandic television they have live chess games.
The best RTE does for the knowledge economy is Spooks and Specters

It may be a problem of supply or demand but either way other then some nature documentaries on network 2 I can think of no program that could potentially encourage science or engineering education on Irish television.

TV is just one example. But you can look at any section of Irish life and see it is an intellectual wasteland. You cannot be ok with that and also demand a knowledge economy

mike65

Develop or re develop the tourist sector, a huge employer when doing well. Make Ireland a variable destination for more than misty eyed tourists and golfers.

Manach

Assets Ireland does have is it is English speaking and in a favourable timezone to the US/UK.
Tech-support / call centres would seem to favour such locations.

RichardAnd

cavedave wrote: »

But maybe more of us could be if there was not such an anti intellectual environment in Ireland.

Take television for example

Stargazing live on the BBC is live astronomy (with mainly Irish presenters)
On Icelandic television they have live chess games.
The best RTE does for the knowledge economy is Spooks and Specters

It may be a problem of supply or demand but either way other then some nature documentaries on network 2 I can think of no program that could potentially encourage science or engineering education on Irish television.

TV is just one example. But you can look at any section of Irish life and see it is an intellectual wasteland. You cannot be ok with that and also demand a knowledge economy

+1 and +2 whilst I'm at it.

In this country, people are simply not encouraged to think. I had the misfortune to recently stumble upon "ireland's got talent" and I had to cringe. People's heads are so full of this nonsense (along with expose, X-factor, Family Guy and all that other tripe) that they simple don't know how to think properly anymore.

And even when people do turn off the idiot box, it's often only to pick up some glossy rag or one of those pop culture "novels" like Twilight or what have you. And then there's the music...

I think if Irish people spent less time reading about Jordan or Jedward and instead read some Tolstoy or listened to some Vivaldi, well I don't think it's too bold to suggest we would not be in the dire situation we are in.

It's a shame really. There is more information available these days than ever before and literacy it more ubiquitous than ever it has been yet, it seems all of this is going to waste .

cavedave

RichardAnd

In this country, people are simply not encouraged to think. I had the misfortune to recently stumble upon "ireland's got talent" and I had to cringe. People's heads are so full of this nonsense (along with expose, X-factor, Family Guy and all that other tripe) that they simple don't know how to think properly anymore.

And even when people do turn off the idiot box, it's often only to pick up some glossy rag or one of those pop culture "novels" like Twilight or what have you. And then there's the music...

I think if Irish people spent less time reading about Jordan or Jedward and instead read some Tolstoy or listened to some Vivaldi, well I don't think it's too bold to suggest we would not be in the dire situation we are in.

It's a shame really. There is more information available these days than ever before and literacy it more ubiquitous than ever it has been yet, it seems all of this is going to waste .

I don't want to derail the thread. And I dont want to get to high and mighty. If someone wants to watch all Ireland talent show and read about Jordan in OK thats their business.

I just want to make the point that you cannot demand knowledge save you while discouraging knowledge. Not that anyone on this thread is doing that but it is a common attitude.

the citizens launch a mob attack against the town's scientific institutions, and Moe decides to destroy the skeleton of a woolly mammoth at the Springfield Natural History Museum, yelling "Take that, science!" Predictably, the tusk falls off, crushing him. "Oof, I'm paralyzed," observes Moe. "I only hope medical science can cure me."

Liam Byrne

I think even the terminology in this thread shows an odd bias.

Manual labour jobs aren't necessarily "low skilled"; the guy who built and plastered a dead-straight wall outside my house was far more skilled than any politician or banker that I've seen in the last 10 years.

Sleepy

kuntboy wrote: »

Maybe we should just get used to having a vast underclass of permanently unemployed.

This is exactly what I'm afraid of tbh.

As Cookie Monster points out, technology has rendered so many unskilled positions redundant in the "developed world" and virtually anything related to manufacture has moved to the "developing" economies where cost-bases are lower.

jimmycrackcorm, again, I'm all for encouraging entrepeneurialism but how much capacity has it got for mass employment or genuine job-creation? That lad on Dragons Den pushing the plastic surround for a toilet pipe might create a handful of jobs in sales and admin here if the idea takes off, but you can guarantee, manufacture will be out-sourced.

Education is the closest thing to a silver bullet we have but it'll take at least a generation to both overhaul it enough and to get the throughput to get the benefits out of it.

The Tourist sector is the best suggestion I've read so far in this thread but how effectively can we compete in this area given our high costs and poor weather. We've got plenty of tourist infrastructure but we're an expensive little island to visit.

Sleepy

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I think even the terminology in this thread shows an odd bias.

Manual labour jobs aren't necessarily "low skilled"; the guy who built and plastered a dead-straight wall outside my house was far more skilled than any politician or banker that I've seen in the last 10 years.

It's a shame we can't export walls...

Marcin_diy

Hi All just my point of view In Ireland most of things you can buy are original high cost brands If your car is broken majority will go to VW, OPEL, Toyota etc dealer to buy part. In Country where I'm originally from original parts are for rich people. All other buy cheaper replacement parts. - each thing have up to 10 cheaper alternatives. Things like fuel filters, fluids, etc don't need to be original - Maybe people in Ireland should stop sending money to foreign motor industries and start manufacturing replacement parts? if you go to b@Q , woodies, etc you will find all tools ( I'm not telling about power tools) like hammers, screws etc are or UK, or Stanley. Where is Irish Stuff? Other story is that some sellers are trying to get a profit on high prices for everything - and many people are ordering goods from uk, and other european countries.

The_Honeybadger

OP raises a good point, and there have been some excellent contributions so far. I know unemployed people who fall into this category who have virtually given up on working in the near future. As previously said, you cannot train a brickie to become an I.T. whizz overnight. And if you try to start a business and fail, you are hung out to dry with no welfare net (a ludicrous situation IMO).

One area with the potential to create low paid jobs is tourism, we have a reputation abroad as being an expensive place to visit, things have improved but we still need to get costs down. The cost of eating out here for example is very high, an 8.99 supermarket bottle of wine in a restaurant here can cost over 20 euro, not on IMO. But to be fair businesses are grapling with high rents, high wages and energy costs, council charges etc. Much of this is government controlled lets hope the next government starts to deal with this. We have a huge diaspora, many of whom would like to visit this country I am sure, however they won't do that if they see us as a place where they will be ripped off. Adventure tourism could be a big contributor in future as we have some of the best mountains, beaches etc in Europe, surfers and mountaineers are not really that concerned with the weather, I know a mountaineer who relishes challenging weather.

Agriculture is also going to be important and with the right ideas plenty of production, processing and other jobs can be created as well as more highly paid management positions.

Alot of this depends on getting our cost down though, a process which will be fiercely resisted by many. How we will get 300,000 people back to work though? That is probably impossible without enormous stimulus and investment in training, which is very unlikely given we are broke.

mike65

The Chinese can turn out billions of screws, nut and bolts for half nothing, Ireland simply cannot compete in such areas.

feicim

Sleepy wrote: »

Given that most of the jobs we've lost over the last 2 years have been in the construction, retail and manufacturing sectors we have a major problem that doesn't seem to be being addressed from what I can see.

The jobs we're creating (largely through the IDA and Enterprise Ireland) are, in the main, technical positions involving IT or Pharmaceuticals. While some lower-skilled administerial and maintenance positions will no-doubt be created alongside these, the bulk of the jobs we can win at present are not ones the vast majority of the live register can fill or, even more depressingly, be re-trained to fill.

The industries that most of our live register have come from aren't exactly the most productive for an economy either: selling things to each other and building houses to sell to each other.

Without much in the way of natural resources and with a cost of living that effectively rules out our being able to compete in the manufacturing industries a global economy how can we ever hope to get unemployment back down to a low level?

What labour intensive industries can we seek to compete in at a global level? Not everyone can be trained to be a software developer, bio-chemist etc.

The reality of globalisation is.. that workers in more developed western countries will have to move to where the jobs are, not the other way around.

Or 10-15% unemployment could be a permanent feature of the Irish economy with spending/taxes being adjusted to suit this.

Lets face it, 400,000 jobs are not coming to Ireland, is 100,000 even possible/realistic given the lack of ideas/action/options Ireland has?

The world is changing and instead of desperately trying to change things back to how they were before, it might be more beneficial to embrace the new realities and make the appropriate choices. (emigration).

The celtic tiger ireland is dead, and there is no going back to 60's/70's Ireland as employment patterns have changed since then. The times ahead are going to be like nothing seen before, and will have their own unique challenges.

This is something I think our politicians don't have the capability or resources to deal with in a manner that will be acceptable to the citizens of Ireland (with their current expectations).

I don't think there will be enough low skilled jobs provided in the future to make any tangible difference. And the vast majority of the unemployed will probably remain unemployed, their best bet would be to emigrate.

I don't like being pessimistic but I haven't seen any action taken within this country to make me believe an alternative scenario is possible.

Grassroots_FF

Sleepy wrote: »

Given that most of the jobs we've lost over the last 2 years have been in the construction, retail and manufacturing sectors we have a major problem that doesn't seem to be being addressed from what I can see.

The jobs we're creating (largely through the IDA and Enterprise Ireland) are, in the main, technical positions involving IT or Pharmaceuticals. While some lower-skilled administerial and maintenance positions will no-doubt be created alongside these, the bulk of the jobs we can win at present are not ones the vast majority of the live register can fill or, even more depressingly, be re-trained to fill.

The industries that most of our live register have come from aren't exactly the most productive for an economy either: selling things to each other and building houses to sell to each other.

Without much in the way of natural resources and with a cost of living that effectively rules out our being able to compete in the manufacturing industries a global economy how can we ever hope to get unemployment back down to a low level?

What labour intensive industries can we seek to compete in at a global level? Not everyone can be trained to be a software developer, bio-chemist etc.

It's all about being more competitive. Lower wages and other costs for employers and they'll create more jobs.

feicim

Marcin_diy wrote: »

Where is Irish Stuff? Other story is that some sellers are trying to get a profit on high prices for everything - and many people are ordering goods from uk, and other european countries.

+1.

This week I was quoted 280 for a boiler part from an Irish plumbing suppliers.

The exact same part was available from the uk for €135 (including vat, sterling conversion and next day delivery:eek:)

Irish companies are ripping people off, and many people have copped on to this.

These irish companies are eventually going to end up out of business if they keep ripping people off, in an age where practically everyone has the internet and can find a supplier in the EU or elsewhere for a fraction of the cost.

Sleepy

Grassroots_FF wrote: »

It's all about being more competitive. Lower wages and other costs for employers and they'll create more jobs.

Make wages low enough to compete with the developing world?

Can't see that happening somehow...

Pete_Cavan

zig wrote: »

perhaps we must broaden our horizons out of desperation, like promote gambling tourism and build casinos. Or perhaps look to the far future , hire a bunch of engineers and designers from the likes of Toyota etc, and create a semi state owned company that produces a new cost effective electric or hybrid car. The car could be Irish designed and Irish produced. All manufacturing could be done here, including parts. Obviously this would cost billions and billions in investment hence I mean long term future.

Sorry for such a long post but couldnt leave any of it out. It is worth the read I assure you.

I very much doubt electric cars will every catch on. Battery technology has developed very slowly and batteries use rare earth metals which have a limited supply and are becoming very expensive because China has most of the planets reserves of these and wants to keep them for her own production. Also energy supplies are becoming a worry for most countries and unless nuclear fusion is cracked soon I dont think the world would be able to produce enough electricity to power everything it is all ready powering plus emerging economies plus all the energy that would be needed to run all the electric cars. Certainly Ireland would not be able to produce enough energy to power her economy if all the cars here also relied on the national grid.

Despite all the advances in technology that have been seen in the past 150 years, all modern cars still use the basic principle of the internal combustion engine, first developed in the mid 1800's, to propel them. Why has this, fairly simple technology, survived so long in the face of huge scientific breakthroughs? Answer: because it is the best. I believe the next generation of cars will continue to use this principle, but will be powered by biofuels. This should certainly be the case for Ireland and we should get ahead of the pack now, even if the rest of the world doesnt follow.

Ireland has a long tradition of agriculture and we continue to rank among the top countries in the world in terms of agriculture. It makes sense for us to exploit this and grow our own fuel. We could be self-sufficient in this respect. It does not need to take land from food production because the bio-crops could be genetically modified to grow anywhere we cant grow food (people dont like eating GM foods but your car wont mind). We also spent a lot on farm subsidies, growing fuel would see unproductive farms become productive and they would not have to rely on subsidies, saving the government a fortune. Electric cars would be produced oversees where manufacturing costs are lower and it is likely we would have to import some of the electricity needed because we would not be able to produce enough ourselves.

It would be a lot cheaper to set up than electric cars, we have all the petrol stations, pumps, etc. in place already, just fill the tanks with bio-diesel instead of normal diesel. The infrastructure for electric cars would cost a fortune, we would have to build many new power stations in order to produce the energy as well as a network of high capacity power lines covering the entire country. I have no idea how much extra electrictiy we would need but when you think of all the cars on our roads and imagine all of these charging at the mains, Im sure you would easily double our energy demand.

Even if the rest of the world goes down the electric car route, this island could use biofuels with no ill effects on our economy. Irish hauliers could use electric vehicles for travelling overseas and we just need to have charge points at service stations for them. This would also accommodate hauliers driving from the continent as well as tourists coming here. This would be possible because with only HGVs and a few tourist cars recharging their batteries it is not putting a huge strain on our energy production. Most of these would charge up at night to avail of cheap energy when demand is low meaning we dont need to increase energy production capacity.

We could create many jobs in the agriculture sector growing the crops, technical jobs processing the crop into fuel, as well as jobs in distributing and selling the final product. If everyone else was using electric cars it may be even better for us because then we could produce the engines for the cars here as we would have no rivals (just buy in chassis etc. for electric cars from abroad and install Irish made engines). This gives us an entirely new indigenous industry in a sector where we are already strong and we would not have to fear competition from abroad.

Energy costs are going to continue to rise and the added pressure of powering every car on the planet would push the costs up further. Even if the cost per driving 1km in an electric car is less than driving 1km in a biofuel car, it would still be a better option for this country because all the money would be staying in the country. The fuel is produced here with no reliance on imports and everyone employed producing the fuel spends there money here so more money circulating in our economy, not leaving the country. If needed the government could charge 0% tax on Irish produced biodiesel to make it cheaper. It would be worth it because it would be employing many thousands of people and all the money is staying in the country so they will receive more tax indirectly than by direct taxes on a product produced abroad.

Rubik.

Sleepy wrote: »

It's a shame we can't export walls...

But we can and will export the wall makers. Emigration is going to be the only real option for a lot of people. When announcing the four year plan, Brian Cowen depressingly tried to make a projected figure of a 10% unemployment rate at the end of those four years sound like a positive. Leaving aside the fact that FF are pretty hopeless at making economic predictions, even if unemployment is lowered to 10% that is still a very high rate.

RichardAnd

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I think even the terminology in this thread shows an odd bias.

Manual labour jobs aren't necessarily "low skilled"; the guy who built and plastered a dead-straight wall outside my house was far more skilled than any politician or banker that I've seen in the last 10 years.

A plasterer isn't a low skilled job, you are correct. When I talk about low skilled jobs I mean office administration, cashier etc. You're right though, Irish society is an incredibly bias one.

dan_d

RichardAnd wrote: »

+1 and +2 whilst I'm at it.

And even when people do turn off the idiot box, it's often only to pick up some glossy rag or one of those pop culture "novels" like Twilight or what have you. And then there's the music...

I think if Irish people spent less time reading about Jordan or Jedward and instead read some Tolstoy or listened to some Vivaldi, well I don't think it's too bold to suggest we would not be in the dire situation we are in.
.

Owch!

I mix my Twilights, with Jane Austen and Henry James, my Vivaldi and Schuberts with my ...well, ok, not Jedward, but I've been known to enjoy Westlife and Take That. (guilty pleasure!). As someone who is extremely proficient classically on one instrument, and learning rapidly on another, and who read anything I could lay my hands on from an early age.....I take exception to that remark! Our house has a seriously eclectic and large collection of books, and an extremely wide selection of classical music resides beside the CD player.Which is odd in the house of two late 20 something's, I suppose.

However - I have to agree to an extent. I did engineering and went onto a building site for the last number of years. I would never ever suggest to anyone there that I played 2 instruments, let alone enjoyed reading.Knowledge?? What??? You'd nearly be sneered at for trying to make yourself better educated.My favourite line that got parroted at me so many times "I didn't have to go to college to learn that." (said with an air of triumph).

However, the same people were saying to me early this year, when it became obvious that redundancy was coming our way..."sure you'll be ok, you've got an education".

Luckily, I have managed to find another job, but I know many who "have an education" and have not managed.

I know this is not directly related to the thread, nor do I have any real suggestions for providing low-skilled jobs. I will say though, that there are many skilled tradesmen and craftsmen out there, jobless...and equally, there are as many lads out there who headed into a trade straight out of school because it was the "easy" option to make loads of money from. Now I know full well that those trades aren't "easy"...I know what's involved in them. But for most lads, it was instant gratification. Money for cars, alcohol, clothes and holidays, all to be blown as fast as possible with every paycheck.

Many of these are now unemployed, and I wonder would it be possible to get them back into education. The problem is less that we've no work for these people and more that we are over-saturated with them...ie, we have a higher proportion of people who headed into trades, because of the boom, than most normal economies have. The thing is though, we have a serious problem with supplying jobs for our grads.....how can we provide low-skilled jobs, when we can't supply jobs for the people we've pumped money into educating for the last few years?

Any kind of job creation should promote creation in so-called low-skilled job...to me, those are shop assistants, waitresses, call centres, etc.As companies grow and profit, they require the services of these things, the local shops get busier, people go for lunch in local restaurants, etc.

Maybe we should concentrate harder on developing the higher skilled jobs, and then the low skilled, rather than the other way around??

Liam Byrne

Sleepy wrote: »

It's a shame we can't export walls...

An even bigger shame that we can't manufacture cars, TVs and a million other things that people buy that send money outside the country.

Mind you, FF are on course for exporting people......any chance we could get paid a transfer fee ?