Child sex abuse - UK elite stayed silent

wes

steelcityblues wrote: »

Anyway, it is significant if a director of a Muslim youth group is concerned about what he's hearing!

Well considering the huge coverage in the media, he would be silly not too. Also, if he is a decent director of a youth group, he should certainly take pro-active action.

The guy got 1 phone call, and says there is no evidence or anything either. So again, we see something that doesn't prove the claims being made by people.

Also, its hardly just people of Asian descent involved in these kind of crimes:

Colin Blanchard could spend life in jail for role in paedophile ring

I look forward to all kind of exaggerated nonsense on Sky News and there ilk, oh wait that crime wasn't by a minority group, so no need draw conclusions from a single case, and dodgy comments from politicans.

RDM_83 again

wes wrote: »

I look forward to all kind of exaggerated nonsense on Sky News and there ilk, oh wait that crime wasn't by a minority group, so no need draw conclusions from a single case, and dodgy comments from politicans.

I don't know what the surprise is about these recent cases being a media issue this story is not new, the fact that it keeps reappearing might be because there is some truth behind it.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article2237940.ece

wes

RDM_83 again wrote: »

I don't know what the surprise is about these recent cases being a media issue this story is not new, the fact that it keeps reappearing might be because there is some truth behind it.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article2237940.ece

Yes, and i see plenty of cases all time involving other ethnic groups as well. Wouldn't make such generalizations about them true either. All that article has is generalizations from one politician.

Also, seeing as we know that other ethnic groups are involved in such crimes, I am going to go out on a limb here, and say that they probably have pretty deplorable attitudes towards Woman, and that you will find similar attitudes among people who commits such crimes regardless of ethnicity.

Again, a lot of claims are being made, that don't have much in the way of proof to back them up. Thus far we have gotten the following:

But in 17 court cases since 1997 where groups of men were prosecuted for grooming 11 to 16 year old girls on the street, 53 of the 56 people found guilty were Asian, 50 of them Muslim, while just three were white, The Times reported.

Now far be it for me to point out that just 17 cases is no proof of a trend. You would need to look at a hell of a lot more than 17 cases to make any kind of claims of a trend.

Also, I taught the following CIF article raised some interesting points regarding the investigation:

Grooming and our ignoble tradition of racialising crime


--SNIP--
The Times investigation is based around 56 men convicted in the Midlands and north of England since 1997, 50 from Muslim backgrounds. Granted, such prosecutions are notoriously difficult to sustain, but, nonetheless, this is a small sample used to evidence the "tidal wave" of offending referred to by unnamed police sources. Martin Narey, the chief executive of Barnardo's, which has run projects in the areas concerned for many years, tells me that, while he is pleased to see open discussion of child sexual exploitation, he worries that "decent Pakistani men will now be looked at as potential child abusers". He insists: "This is not just about Pakistani men, and not just about Asian men. And it is happening all over the country."

While Narey acknowledges that "in the Midlands and north of England there does seem to be an over-representation of minority ethnic men in [offending] groups", he argues strongly that no useful conclusions can be drawn until the government undertakes a serious piece of research into what is a nationwide problem. (Keith Vaz, who chairs the Commons home affairs select committee called for such an inquiry today.) Narey also refutes the allegation that Muslim men are grooming white girls because of cultural assumptions about their sexual availability, as girls from minority backgrounds have been similarly abused.

Thus no official data exists on the ethnic or religious background of perpetrators of this form of child abuse, and local charities have stated publicly that they do not consider it a race issue. But it is worth noting that, when asked by the Times to collate its recent work according to ethnicity, Engage – based in Blackburn and one of the largest multi-agency organisations working on this issue – found that in the past year that 80% of offenders were white.
--SNIP--

So again, the claims being made need a hell of a lot more statistical evidences than 17 cases to draw any kind of useful conclusion from. Also, the fact that there is no official data on the ethnic or religious background on perpetrators makes me wonder how the Times came by such figures.

Now of course the sensible thing to do with be to get official figures to see if the claims are being made are true or not, as opposed to using a tiny sample size, and make claims of the basis of that.

RDM_83 again

wes wrote: »

Also, the fact that there is no official data on the ethnic or religious background on perpetrators makes me wonder how the Times came by such figures.

Well to be honest you can generally work out some ones ethnic background by their name and a photo (though may not be the ethnic group they self-classify themselves as which is way census asks it), in terms of the religion thing that is more interesting, perhaps if they all received custodial sentences the prison information is available and that would have information on their dietary restrictions showing who required halal.

I am not saying that a racial profiling is ever acceptable, or even useful from a policing perspective,
I do think however that ignoring the figures is a being naive, these are all the people that have been charged under this law, over 85% of them share a characteristic (other than gender) that is surprising and worth looking at.

"Thus no official data exists on the ethnic or religious background of perpetrators of this form of child abuse, and local charities have stated publicly that they do not consider it a race issue. But it is worth noting that, when asked by the Times to collate its recent work according to ethnicity, Engage – based in Blackburn and one of the largest multi-agency organisations working on this issue – found that in the past year that 80% of offenders were white."

This is an important point and illustrates what I mean about looking at this figure, is there a bias in criminal system for this area as the stated figures from the charity and the prosecutions do not match up.

RDM_83 again

Sorry meant to hit quick reply not thanks there now,

Additionally from a statistical sense, the population is 56 (individuals convicted under this law), the breakdown is 53, 3 other. feeling so retarded at the minute that can't even remember how to do chi-squared test sorry

wes

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Well to be honest you can generally work out some ones ethnic background by their name and a photo (though may not be the ethnic group they self-classify themselves as which is way census asks it),

To a degree this can work, but there is no such thing as Pakistani ethnicty for example. I would be put into that group myself, which makes no sense, as someone like me of Kashmiri descent, is not the same as someone of Balochi descent for example, both which would be consider Pakistani. Of course in my case, there is the added complication, that some would claim that Kashmiri's are Indian instead. We would be culturally very different, in that our parents languages would be different, we would eat different food, have different customs etc. So lumping us all together in one group doesn't make much sense.

RDM_83 again wrote: »

in terms of the religion thing that is more interesting, perhaps if they all received custodial sentences the prison information is available and that would have information on their dietary restrictions showing who required halal.

That may be the case, but it would be nice to know the methodology behind it.

RDM_83 again wrote: »

I am not saying that a racial profiling is ever acceptable, or even useful from a policing perspective,
I do think however that ignoring the figures is a being naive, these are all the people that have been charged under this law, over 85% of them share a characteristic (other than gender) that is surprising and worth looking at.

The figures are based on 17 cases. No useful conclusions can be made on that basis. I am not ignoring the figures at all, just pointing out that for a useful conclusion a lot more data is needed. Again 17 cases, doesn't tell us anything except what happen in those 17 cases. A lot more data, that is properly collected is needed for there to be any kind of trends etc to be idetified.

RDM_83 again wrote: »

"Thus no official data exists on the ethnic or religious background of perpetrators of this form of child abuse, and local charities have stated publicly that they do not consider it a race issue. But it is worth noting that, when asked by the Times to collate its recent work according to ethnicity, Engage – based in Blackburn and one of the largest multi-agency organisations working on this issue – found that in the past year that 80% of offenders were white."

This is an important point and illustrates what I mean about looking at this figure, is there a bias in criminal system for this area as the stated figures from the charity and the prosecutions do not match up.

Well, the thing about prosecutions, is that the study doesn't state that those 17 cases represeted all the prosecutions either, and the study wasn't country wide either. The study is incredibly limited, and that is my problem with it. It is far to limited to draw a useful conclusion from, and we also don't have any idea of what methodology they used, or what criteria was used for these cases etc.

Cork boy 55

Another case today nine more arrests.
Its not in the link but I heard on news BBC that there is
a police probe into the police handling of this
Internal investigations!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-12159058

They were held on suspicion of rape, inciting child prostitution, allowing a premises to be used for prostitution and sexual activity with a child.
The Asian men, aged between 20 and 40 from Rochdale and Heywood, were arrested on 21 December.

Cork boy 55

The media have found a victim in glasgow

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/editor-s-picks/these-men-took-my-innocence-as-they-lured-me-into-a-sickening-world-of-abuse-1.1079252

He was selling me. In just a few months I’d slept with more than 60 men Caroline, aged 14 (not her real name)

When you look at
the number of cases where there is a conviction
the number of victims and crimnals in each of these cases
and then guestitmate
the number of cases investigated with no conviction
the number of cases where no or little investigation occured.

This has the potential to be a massive scandal
Bearing in mind the cover up and how difficult it it to get a
conviction in these type of cases.
its needs a Ryan report type inquiry
to get to the bottom of whats going on/gone on and needs a special unit
to deal with it.

"This is going on in every town and city in the UK."
The words of Martin Narey, chief executive of Barnardo's, which runs a number of projects working with hundreds of sexually abused teenaged girls.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12140641

Fratton Fred

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

When you look at
the number of cases where there is a conviction
the number of victims and crimnals in each of these cases
and then guestitmate
the number of cases investigated with no conviction
the number of cases where no or little investigation occured.

This has the potential to be a massive scandal
Bearing in mind the cover up and how difficult it it to get a
conviction in these type of cases.
its needs a Ryan report type inquiry
to get to the bottom of whats going on/gone on and needs a special unit
to deal with it.





http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12140641

This is being dealt with. It has been a known problem for a long time. In Reading one young girl was killed a.d another stabbed, shot and left for dead by a gang using them as prostitutes and drug mules.

There is, however, no cover up. There is no scandal, just the need for a specialised police team to deal with this.

Cork boy 55

It is a scandal and there was a cover up on many levels
look at the link in my post 18 on this thread(second link)
In the name of political correctness race relations etc.

A senior officer at West Mercia police has called for an end to the 'damaging taboo' connecting on-street grooming with race.

Detective Chief Inspector Alan Edwards said: 'These girls are being passed around and used as meat.

also


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1346291/Police-chief-We-speak-Asian-sex-gangs-appearing-racist.html

Police could not speak out about Asian sex gangs for fear of appearing ‘institutionally racist’, a senior officer said yesterday.

Mick Gradwell, a former detective superintendent, said the targeting of underage and vulnerable girls had been going on for decades.

He added: ‘You have girls being abused and raped and yet the most senior officers are refusing to comment on it. On what other subject would you get that?

How many young girls have been abused and raped because of the reluctance of the authorities to say exactly what is happening?’

In 2003 Anne Cryer MP went to muslim leaders
and was told it was not their problem.

Fratton Fred

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

It is a scandal and there was a cover up on many levels
look at the link in my post 18 on this thread(second link)
In the name of political correctness race relations etc.



[/COLOR][/LEFT]I

also


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1346291/Police-chief-We-speak-Asian-sex-gangs-appearing-racist.html



In 2003 Anne Cryer MP went to muslim leaders
and was told it was not their problem.

What is being covered up? People are being arrested, charged and their names published in the media.

Because there are a lot of men from the Muslim community, do you want all Muslims thrown out of the UK?

This has nothing to do with any scandals, or concerns about grooming, it is just Muslim bashing.

Nodin

Cops refusing to comment is unusual now?

Cork boy 55

Fratton Fred wrote: »

What is being covered up? People are being arrested, charged and their names published in the media.

Because there are a lot of men from the Muslim community, do you want all Muslims thrown out of the UK?

This has nothing to do with any scandals, or concerns about grooming, it is just Muslim bashing.

LOL, the racist card, you just proved the point thank you.

wes

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

LOL, the racist card, you just proved the point thank you.

So what we aren't allowed to call racists, "racist" now. Clearly its PC gone mad :P.

Also, accusing others of losing the argument, when you completely ignore the fact that the so called conspiracy of silence is non-existent, what with all the convictions and you know the media coverage. It has also conviently exposed a lot of people, who seem to think a criminals race suddenly matters, when its a minority group.

Nodin

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

LOL, the racist card, you just proved the point thank you.

'Muslim' - not a race.....

JustinDee

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

LOL, the racist card, you just proved the point thank you

Ignoring the semantics of racism v xenophobia v bigotry, the poster thinks it is muslim-bashing regardless.
Human-trafficking or whatever the latest buzz-word in the likes of the Mail and Telegraph is (grooming?), is hardly exclusive to any single demographic in the UK. The common denominator is the criminal element. Not what religion, nationality, cultural background or race somebody is.

Cork boy 55

wes wrote: »

So what we aren't allowed to call racists, "racist" now. Clearly its PC gone mad :P.

Also, accusing others of losing the argument, when you completely ignore the fact that the so called conspiracy of silence is non-existent, what with all the convictions and you know the media coverage. It has also conviently exposed a lot of people, who seem to think a criminals race suddenly matters, when its a minority group.

Thats like saying because the ryan report was published here
there was no cover up in ireland back in the day.
Please read my previous post and the
policemen featured. Who knows how many victims could have been saved
if the correct actions had been taken by Police,media, schools, pakistan community elders and politicans a decade ago.
There was a culture of silence in the name of political correctness
and race relations

Nodin wrote: »

'Muslim' - not a race.....

Duh
I could not find an islamophobia card image in google images

JustinDee wrote: »

Ignoring the semantics of racism v xenophobia v bigotry, the poster thinks it is muslim-bashing regardless.
Human-trafficking or whatever the latest buzz-word in the likes of the Mail and Telegraph is (grooming?), is hardly exclusive to any single demographic in the UK. The common denominator is the criminal element. Not what religion, nationality, cultural background or race somebody is.

So you saying that culture and race play no part in crime.
You are saying that Pakistani culture plays no part in this
the fact that majority of victims are white.
Even Jack Straw has acknowledged that 10 years too late.
On a macro-level can you also explain why 12%
of england and wales prison population is muslim but they are 3% of population.

http://www.christianconcern.com/our-concerns/islam/muslim-gangs-imposing-sharia-law-british-prisons

Sand

On a macro-level can you also explain why 12%
of england and wales prison population is muslim but they are 3% of population.

If the muslim population of the UK is dispropotionally represented in the poorer and more deprived areas of the UK then that might explain it. People from poor areas tend to be over-represented in prisons regardless of their religion.

You are saying that Pakistani culture plays no part in this
the fact that majority of victims are white.

Given 97% of the population arent muslim/pakistani thats...unsurprising. Cultural prejudices regarding women (modest women wear burkas...) probably does play a role in the criminals mindset but youre not doing a good job of making the argument.

Cork boy 55

Sand wrote: »

If the muslim population of the UK is dispropotionally represented in the poorer and more deprived areas of the UK then that might explain it. People from poor areas tend to be over-represented in prisons regardless of their religion.
.

Why is the Muslim population of the UK dispropotionally poor?

Also

Adjusting for poverty levels does not explain the 3-12(1-4) imbalance
in prison population
as for the pakistanti community for example
the poverty ratio to whites is (1-2.75) as measured by low income housing

http://www.poverty.org.uk/33/index.shtml?6

Sand wrote: »

Given 97% of the population arent muslim/pakistani thats...unsurprising. Cultural prejudices regarding women (modest women wear burkas...) probably does play a role in the criminals mindset but youre not doing a good job of making the argument

Well, if one thousand Irish teens and one one thousand spanish teens
went to crete for a week.
Which group would cause the most drunken violence in your opinion
Is that a good argument? We Irish have your own cultue/crime issues which we are failing to address.

Fratton Fred

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

Why is the Muslim population of the UK dispropotionally poor?

Also

Adjusting for poverty levels does not explain the 3-12(1-4) imbalance
in prison population
as for the pakistanti community for example
the poverty ratio to whites is (1-2.75) as measured by low income housing

http://www.poverty.org.uk/33/index.shtml?6



Well, if one thousand Irish teens and one one thousand spanish teens
went to crete for a week.
Which group would cause the most drunken violence in your opinion
Is that a good argument? We Irish have your own cultue/crime issues which we are failing to address.

what actually is the point you are trying to make?

Sand

Why is the Muslim population of the UK dispropotionally poor?

The most recent waves of immigrants tend to start at the bottom of the ladder. Their descendants gradually work their way up. The Irish ought to know this better than anyone - consider the status of the Irish in America between 1860 and 1960.

Well, if one thousand Irish teens and one one thousand spanish teens
went to crete for a week.
Which group would cause the most drunken violence in your opinion
Is that a good argument? We Irish have your own cultue/crime issues which we are failing to address.

Im unsure. The Irish have a reputation for drinking more than the Spanish, but then the Irish also have a reputation for being able to hold their drink better than the Spanish. Have you ever seen a drunken Spanish person? There is a reason theyre not know for their drinking culture.

The Spanish teens might see the week in Crete as a once in a lifetime chance to act the fool and lose the run of themselves, buckling under the pressure of big game nerves. Irish teens are in training week in and week out all year round to handle the pressure. Irish conditioning and experience might win out.

JustinDee

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

So you saying that culture and race play no part in crime. You are saying that Pakistani culture plays no part in this the fact that majority of victims are white

To say culture and race are the 'cause' is not only highly subjective but most of all for certain folk, convenient. Social standing and a perceived 'class' also have considerable effects on crime surely?

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

Even Jack Straw has acknowledged that 10 years too late

Its easy to be in opposition. Also ironic as he was minister for state in both departments under whose remit immigration came under (its obvious that this is subject has been hijacked as a concern of immigration rather than crime).

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

On a macro-level can you also explain why 12% of england and wales prison population is muslim but they are 3% of population

Thats roughly 9000 people out of how many? Around 2.5-3 million? You make this out to be an endemic invasion of criminals across the ditch.
What do you want them to do? Kick out British muslims in case they bump the crime stats up?

wes

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

Thats like saying because the ryan report was published here
there was no cover up in ireland back in the day.

Well you see people have been put in jail both now and and in the past, and I have yet to here any suggestion that anyone has avoided jail time becaue of a cover up. You really will have to come up with more.

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

Please read my previous post and the
policemen featured. Who knows how many victims could have been saved
if the correct actions had been taken by Police,media, schools, pakistan community elders and politicans a decade ago.

The words of a single police man is hardly evidence of what you claim. Also, what about all the other ethnic groups engaged in these types of crimes, its seems a bit rich that there victims aren't worth a damn to some people. Whether you like it or not, these crimes happen amongst all communities, and your suggestion of focusing on just the one, is pretty damn pointless.

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

There was a culture of silence in the name of political correctness
and race relations

The culture of silence is something you are suggesting exists, but the fact that this has been brought up in the past by politicians, and arrests have taken place in the past as well, it seems to me that what people are complaining about is that peopel weren't actively demonizing Pakistani's.

conorhal

JustinDee wrote: »

Ignoring the semantics of racism v xenophobia v bigotry, the poster thinks it is muslim-bashing regardless.
Human-trafficking or whatever the latest buzz-word in the likes of the Mail and Telegraph is (grooming?), is hardly exclusive to any single demographic in the UK. The common denominator is the criminal element. Not what religion, nationality, cultural background or race somebody is.

Culture has a very real bearing in this case.
Specifically the kind of patriarchal cultures that tend view women as chattel and property. This pervasive culture of female subjugation tends to lend itself to this sort of crime.
If you grow up in a household were your sister must cover her face or can be told at 17 that she has to go to pakistan to marry some thirty-five year old man that she has never met, or if you are brougt up to believe that western culture is not just different but wrong and that western women are all sluts, and child brides are culturally acceptable, then it's hardly surprising that you would have little concience about exploiting vunerable underage girls.
To dismiss a cultural element to this crime is to burry your head in the sand.

wes

conorhal wrote: »

Specifically the kind of patriarchal cultures that tend view women as chattel and property. This pervasive culture of female subjugation tends to lend itself to this sort of crime.

I am going to go out on a limb here as I did before, and say that people who engage in these types of crimes have a very low opinion of Women regardless of there cutlure.

conorhal wrote: »

If you grow up in a household were your sister must cover her face or can be told at 17 that she has to go to pakistan to marry some thirty-five year old man that she has never met,

Well seeing as most Women from that community don't cover there faces to begin, it does show a hole in your argument. As for marriage, I agree that is an issue among Pakistani culture, but its an issue for both Males and Females, and is not just unique to Pakistani's but is also similar amongst most Asian communities.

conorhal wrote: »

or if you are brougt up to believe that western culture is not just different but wrong and that western women are all sluts, and child brides are culturally acceptable, then it's hardly surprising that you would have little concience about exploiting vunerable underage girls.

I am sure some people believe that, but you would have to show that the attitude is widespread, and directly causes the behaviour. Remember correlation doesn't equal causation.

conorhal wrote: »

To dismiss a cultural element to this crime is to burry your head in the sand.

For you claim there is a cultural element in all or most of these cases, you need to make the case first.

conorhal

wes wrote: »

Well seeing as most Women from that community don't cover there faces to begin, it does show a hole in your argument. As for marriage, I agree that is an issue among Pakistani culture, but its an issue for both Males and Females, and is not just unique to Pakistani's but is also similar amongst most Asian communities.

I hadn't claimed these practices were particular to Pakistani culture exclusively, merely that any culture that feels the need to tell women what to wear has a low opinion of women and an unhealthy fear of female sexuality that inevitably impacts on their view of women that do not adhere to such practices.

wes wrote: »

I am sure some people believe that, but you would have to show that the attitude is widespread, and directly causes the behaviour. Remember correlation doesn't equal causation.

But it does equal motivation. And yes, that attitude is widespread, as widespread as binge drinking is in our own culture.

wes wrote: »

For you claim there is a cultural element in all or most of these cases, you need to make the case first.

It's common sense. Suggesting that a person's cultural upbringing has no baring on their attuitude to women and how you behave towards them is like saying that a binge drinking culture has no baring on our patterns of alcohol consumption in Ireland.

wes

conorhal wrote: »

I hadn't claimed these practices were particular to Pakistani culture exclusively, merely that any culture that feels the need to tell women what to wear has a low opinion of women and an unhealthy fear of female sexuality that inevitably impacts on their view of women that do not adhere to such practices.

Ok, so did it comtribute or directly lead to there crimes then? I could just as easily say there choice of victim was down to living in a community where most Women are white, and inevitably so would most of there victims.

I could also say the reason they avoided there own communties is that they felt they could be more readily identified in there own communities. I have no proof of that, but sure its certainly possible.

conorhal wrote: »

But it does equal motivation. And yes, that attitude is widespread, as widespread as binge drinking is in our own culture.

I am sure the Men involved had a low opinon of Women, just like all men who commits such crimes probably do, regardless of there culture.

conorhal wrote: »

It's common sense. Suggesting that a person's cultural upbringing has no baring on their attuitude to women and how you behave towards them is like saying that a binge drinking culture has no baring on our patterns of alcohol consumption in Ireland.

Saying its "common sense" is meaningless. You need to make a case for what your saying. I could just as easily claim something is "common sense" as well, and not make my case as well. Again, I have no doubt such men have horrible opinions of Women, but I would say the same of all such men regardless of culture.

conorhal

wes wrote: »

Saying its "common sense" is meaningless. You need to make a case for what your saying. I could just as easily claim something is "common sense" as well, and not make my case as well. Again, I have no doubt such men have horrible opinions of Women, but I would say the same of all such men regardless of culture.

Well let's attempt to apply a little common sense.
You don't doubt that such men have such men have a horrible opinion of women, correct?
What do you suppose is the source of that opinion? would it be the fact that they were raised in a culture that has a horrible opinion of women?
Being a misogynist does not of course determine that a person will become a rapist, but lets face it, all rapists are without exception misogynists. There may be many sources for a misogynists hatred of women, but a pervasive culture of misogyny in the home and in your community from birth would be a good place to start looking. No doubt other factors also come into play and I don't attribute the blame for the actions of these rapists to culture alone, but frankly, denying that culture as a factor is no different to denying the plain existence of the nose on your face.

wes

conorhal wrote: »

Well let's attempt to apply a little common sense.

Common sense doesn't equal proof. Now, common sense can be correct at times, but it can often be just a common assumption.

conorhal wrote: »

You don't doubt that such men have such men have a horrible opinion of women, correct?

Of course, considering the crimes. Any man who would engage in such a crime probably has a low opinion of Women, or is some sort of sociopath, that could care less about people in general.

conorhal wrote: »

What do you suppose is the source of that opinion? would it be the fact that they were raised in a culture that has a horrible opinion of women?

Could be, but I can't say for definite. It could be any number or reasons. You may be right in some cases, and completely wrong in others. The simple fact of the matter, unless people actually take the time to find out, we can't say anything for definite.

conorhal wrote: »

Being a misogynist does not of course determine that a person will become a rapist, but lets face it, all rapists are without exception misogynists. There may be many sources for a misogynists hatred of women, but a pervasive culture of misogyny in the home and in your community from birth would be a good place to start looking. No doubt other factors also come into play and I don't attribute the blame for the actions of these rapists to culture alone, but frankly, denying that culture as a factor is no different to denying the plain existence of the nose on your face.

I am sure culture plays a factor in some cases, but how do you know they were all were raised in such an environment? Some people can be raised in a perfectly good family, be told to respect Women, that rape is evil and wrong and still have such attitudes, and even engage in sex abuse. The simple fact is that no one can say the exact reasons either way. Also, we can hardly know how these men were raised. You would have to show that they were raised in the environment you describe, you again have simple not shown that, just claimed that you are right on the basis of "common sense", which doesn't make it true at all.

Ultimately, we know that these criminals come from many different cultures, so why just focus on the one culture. Better to tackle this attitude amongst everyone surely.

JustinDee

conorhal wrote: »

Culture has a very real bearing in this case.
Specifically the kind of patriarchal cultures that tend view women as chattel and property. This pervasive culture of female subjugation tends to lend itself to this sort of crime.
If you grow up in a household were your sister must cover her face or can be told at 17 that she has to go to pakistan to marry some thirty-five year old man that she has never met, or if you are brougt up to believe that western culture is not just different but wrong and that western women are all sluts, and child brides are culturally acceptable, then it's hardly surprising that you would have little concience about exploiting vunerable underage girls.
To dismiss a cultural element to this crime is to burry your head in the sand.

With this so-clear-cut social psychological profiling of yours, explain the rest of the crime stats brought up. What about the other rapes? Just boys being boys is it?
Handily settling on one root cause is burying one's "head in the sand".
If its how this whole demographic is brought with attitudes to women, why aren't there figures showing hardline Sikhs, Hindi, hasidic or even orthodox Jews doing the same, given the relevant attitudes to women that these forms of their religions entail? You are assuming all muslims do what you describe. Do they really? Ineresting. What about the other religions I mentioned?
No arranged marriages, child brides, segregative practices regarding the two sexes?
Your generalisation doesn't even come close to explaining the causes of the human trafficking problem or any bloody crime at all.
And as with quite a few who take up your position, what do you propose doing about all this? Deportation? Where do you deport your own citizens to?