Exceptional Images from Lourdes.

Guillaume

Lourdes is a popular pilgrimage among the Irish people. While Medj is in the "competition" Lourdes remains strong, as a rock.

Those images had been taken very recently and show the deep side of the grotto when the Holy Virgin, Mother of our Lord, appeared to Bernadette.

Enjoy !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGoB9gwZh7k&feature=player_embedded

antiskeptic

A rather unexceptional image from Lourdes. One can't help note the blue (Mary Mother) capped 1/2 litre 'bulk' bottles at the bottom. Nor the 25% off flash sticker.

As a matter of interest, just how much does a bottle of holy water cost? Is it like "Oirish Spring Waaters*"- in most cases tapped from a commoner garden hole in the ground and filtered to bejaysus. Perhaps it's piped from the tap out the back... like the rest of Oirish Spring Waater*.


*the chap who does the water treatment in our plant also does the main Oirish Spring Waater plants too.

Guillaume

antiskeptic wrote: »

A rather unexceptional image from Lourdes.

You must be blind then, go back to your booze.... : )

antiskeptic

Guillaume wrote: »

You must be blind then

By Jove, I think you're right.

It would appear (on blowing the image up) that the cost per 1/2" litre is 6 euros. Pricey that..

georgieporgy

Guillaume wrote: »

Lourdes is a popular pilgrimage among the Irish people. While Medj is in the "competition" Lourdes remains strong, as a rock.

Those images had been taken very recently and show the deep side of the grotto when the Holy Virgin, Mother of our Lord, appeared to Bernadette.

Enjoy !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGoB9gwZh7k&feature=player_embedded

Thanks for that link. Some nice videos there . I've never been to Lourdes, - saving it for later. I figure when I get my bus pass it would be good to have new places to visit ( there's no need for someone to jump in now protesting that the bus pass won't work in France. don't spoil it for me)

Guillaume

antiskeptic wrote: »

A rather unexceptional image from Lourdes. One can't help note the blue (Mary Mother) capped 1/2 litre 'bulk' bottles at the bottom. Nor the 25% off flash sticker.

As a matter of interest, just how much does a bottle of holy water cost? Is it like "Oirish Spring Waaters*"- in most cases tapped from a commoner garden hole in the ground and filtered to bejaysus. Perhaps it's piped from the tap out the back... like the rest of Oirish Spring Waater*.


*the chap who does the water treatment in our plant also does the main Oirish Spring Waater plants too.

It costs nothing : Grace and Mercy of the Lord is free.

antiskeptic

Guillaume wrote: »

It costs nothing : Grace and Mercy of the Lord is free.

If the grace and mercy of the Lord is doled out via 6 euro/0.5 litre bottles of water then it isn't free - per definition. If it isn't doled out so, then you've evaded the issue of 6 euro/0.5 ltr bottles of 'holy' water.

Perhaps they're empty. Which begs another question.

Guillaume

antiskeptic wrote: »

If the grace and mercy of the Lord is doled out via 6 euro/0.5 litre bottles of water then it isn't free - per definition. If it isn't doled out so, then you've evaded the issue of 6 euro/0.5 ltr bottles of 'holy' water.

Perhaps they're empty. Which begs another question.

What is wrong with you ? The Water from Lourdes is FREE. Free, free, and free. I am obviously dealing with an atheist there, with a blinded perspective. Fair enough, but this post is for the faithful.

Onesimus

antiskeptic wrote: »

If the grace and mercy of the Lord is doled out via 6 euro/0.5 litre bottles of water then it isn't free - per definition. If it isn't doled out so, then you've evaded the issue of 6 euro/0.5 ltr bottles of 'holy' water.

Perhaps they're empty. Which begs another question.

And protestants sell Bibles? *shock* the word of God? being sold by protestants at the lovely price of 20 euro or so? :eek: Oh the scandal.

It is the bottles that are being priced and the money being put to good use.

liamw

Guillaume wrote: »

I am obviously dealing with an atheist there, with a blinded perspective.

ye.. antiskeptic is obviously an atheist

shawman

Some unusual images here.
http://www.lourdesgrottotravel.com/autumnal-sun/

gimmebroadband

Onesimus wrote: »

And protestants sell Bibles? *shock* the word of God? being sold by protestants at the lovely price of 20 euro or so? :eek: Oh the scandal.

It is the bottles that are being priced and the money being put to good use.

The Bible is also 2nd hand with a few chapters missing! :pac:

Never been to Lourdes either......some day hopefully!

branie

I've been to Lourdes 3 times, and loved the experience :-)

homer911

I'm pretty sure there's a Protestant/Catholic thread for some of these comments..

Everyone knows that non-Catholics think Catholic "sites of pilgrimage" are a complete scam

Tea_Bag

homer911 wrote: »

I'm pretty sure there's a Protestant/Catholic thread for some of these comments..

Everyone knows that non-Catholics think Catholic "sites of pilgrimage" are a complete scam

that's because it is.

gimmebroadband

Tea_Bag wrote: »

that's because it is.

No so to thousands that have been cured there!

Here are two of note:

http://olrl.org/stories/lourdes.shtml

MagicMarker

gimmebroadband wrote: »

No so to thousands that have been cured there!

Here are two of note:

http://olrl.org/stories/lourdes.shtml

Thousands out of how many million?

gimmebroadband

MagicMarker wrote: »

Thousands out of how many million?

How many miracles do you need to prove that Our Lady appeared in Lourdes, obvious several thousand cures isn't enough for some???

antiskeptic

gimmebroadband wrote: »

No so to thousands that have been cured there!

Here are two of note:

http://olrl.org/stories/lourdes.shtml

Anything a little more recent that 1870 & 1914? Something that rises above the God-channel level televangelism healing?

Let's say someone cured of an amputated arm. Or a missing eye. Before and after photo's included (verified as being actually before and after, naturally ).

Or does 'Mary' only do the kind of healings that require large doses of faith in order that they be believed in?

copeyhagen

gimmebroadband wrote: »

How many miracles do you need to prove that Our Lady appeared in Lourdes, obvious several thousand cures isn't enough for some???

you cant prove, nor can anyone else, all these miracles happened in a time when no evidence can be provided to backup the crazy stories..

funny that

MagicMarker

gimmebroadband wrote: »

How many miracles do you need to prove that Our Lady appeared in Lourdes, obvious several thousand cures isn't enough for some???

It's not a miracle if it happens a few thousand times out of a few hundred million.

keano_afc

Matthew 24:24 says:

For false messiahs and false prophets will rise up and perform great signs and wonders so as to deceive, if possible, even God's chosen ones.

Beware the lies of Lourdes.

cybercellesta

"The Catholic Faith alone produces miracles, which are never seen among heretics. Plants of this sort cannot grow in a soil cursed by God; they can take root only in that Church where the True Faith is professed . . . God cannot sanction the performance of a miracle except in favor of the true religion; were He to permit it in support of error, He would deceive us."

St. Alphonsus Marie de Liguori, Bishop & Doctor of the Church

georgieporgy

A 10 sec google search shows this recent cure of MS.

http://www.ewtn.com/library/mary/zlourdes.htm

cybercellesta

MagicMarker wrote: »

It's not a miracle if it happens a few thousand times out of a few hundred million.

Out of 7000 documented cures in the past 150 years, 67 was approved by the Church as miraculous!


http://www.mysticsofthechurch.com/2010/04/miracle-cures-of-lourdes-miraculous.html

georgieporgy

Here's a longer list ( the 67 'approved')
http://www.lourdes-france.org/upload/pdf/gb_guerisons.pdf

duchalla

I've been to Lourdes twice and while the town itself isn't all that, the grotto is something special.

MagicMarker

67 out of millions. Wow.

How many of them grew new limbs?

georgieporgy

And one more from today's paper
http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2011/03/30/man-with-paralysed-leg-walks-1000-miles-after-visit-to-lourdes/

Growing new limbs? not sure how many, but quite a few have grown new hearts.

mascaput

homer911 wrote: »

I'm pretty sure there's a Protestant/Catholic thread for some of these comments..

Everyone knows that non-Catholics think Catholic "sites of pilgrimage" are a complete scam

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cybercellesta wrote: »

Out of 7000 documented cures in the past 150 years, 67 was approved by the Church as miraculous!


http://www.mysticsofthechurch.com/2010/04/miracle-cures-of-lourdes-miraculous.html

Hmmm...only 67? That's not even 1%. What was so badly wrong with the other 6,933? Didn't God love them too?

Lourdes is basically a virgin cult worship centre, which were common in the Middle East and places like Ephesus (in modern day Turkey), back 2000 years ago, where the cult of Artemis/Diana held sway.

Later on, as part of its policy of syncretisation, the RCC adopted and transmuted many of these pagan, virginal cultic practices into its rituals and observances.
The idea that Mary (Miriam in Hebrew) would have been alabaster white with a crown on her head, is purely a carry-over from the temples and statues at Ephesus, which were all bright white.
The divinity of Mary/Miriam was decided upon at the First Council of Ephesus in 431 ad, nearly four centuries after she suposedly lived in Judaea.
The Council decided that Jesus was one person, not two separate people: complete God and complete man, with a rational soul and body. From that time on, Mary/Miriam was to be called theotokos, a Greek word that means "God-bearer" (the one who gave birth to God). Knock is another marian virgin worship shrine. Link
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Keylem

mascaput wrote: »

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Hmmm...only 67? That's not even 1%. What was so badly wrong with the other 6,933? Didn't God love them too?

Lourdes is basically a virgin cult worship centre, which were common in the Middle East and places like Ephesus (in modern day Turkey), back 2000 years ago, where the cult of Artemis/Diana held sway.

Later on, as part of its policy of syncretisation, the RCC adopted and transmuted many of these pagan, virginal cultic practices into its rituals and observances.
The idea that Mary (Miriam in Hebrew) would have been alabaster white with a crown on her head, is purely a carry-over from the temples and statues at Ephesus, which were all bright white.
The divinity of Mary/Miriam was decided upon at the First Council of Ephesus in 431 ad, nearly four centuries after she suposedly lived in Judaea.
The Council decided that Jesus was one person, not two separate people: complete God and complete man, with a rational soul and body. From that time on, Mary/Miriam was to be called theotokos, a Greek word that means "God-bearer" (the one who gave birth to God). Knock is another marian virgin worship shrine. Link
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Sigh!!!! Catholics DO NOT worship Mary!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtErU6VMJzA

mascaput

Keylem wrote: »

Sigh!!!! Catholics DO NOT worship Mary!

I beg to disagree with you. To worship is to revere, respect, pay homage, direct devotion to someone or some thing. There are varying aspects of worship, as it may apply in differing forms, though all relate to veneration of a being or object:

• Ancestor worship
• Animal worship
• Idol worship
• Intercession
• Imperial cult

Many marian prayers are directed towards the intercessionary powers of Mary to act as a medium to plead with her Jewish son Jesus, on behalf of the penitent, something like a medium in a seance, as they speak to the dead.

Intercession is the act of interceding (intervening or mediating) between two parties. In many forms of Christian worship, intercession forms a distinct form of prayer, but it is mainly the Roman Catholic Church that emphasises and glorifies Mary as a medium this way.


There are many devotional prayers to Mary herself, as a Jewish virgin, with the RCC professing that she continued to be a virgin even when she had other children after Jesus, such as James.
These are some of the prayers to Mary herself, as the queen, ruler of Heaven:

PRAYER TO OUR LADY: Remember, O most loving Virgin Mary, that never was it known that anyone who fled to your protection, implored your help, or sought your intercession was left unaided. Inspired with this confidence, we turn to you, O Virgins of virgins, our Mother. To you we come, before you we stand, sinful and sorrowful. O Mother of the Word Incarnate, do not despise our petitions, but in your mercy hear us and answer us. Amen.

PRAYER TO OUR LADY, ASSUMED INTO HEAVEN: Immaculate Virgin, Mother of Jesus and our Mother, we believe in your triumphant assumption into heaven where the angels and saints acclaim you as Queen. We join them in praising you and bless the Lord who raised you above all creatures. With them we offer you our devotion and love. We are confident that you watch over our daily efforts and needs, and we take comfort from our faith in the coming resurrection. We look to you, our life, our sweetness, and our hope. After this earthly life, show us Jesus, the blest fruit of your womb, O kind, O loving, O Sweet Virgin Mary. Amen.


Are you saying that this is not worship? Worship is reverent honour and homage paid to God or a sacred personage, or to any thing regarded as sacred.

gimmebroadband

You can beg to differ all you like, and it doesn't matter what it may look like or seem like to others, we don't worship Mary, we honour her.
Mary NEVER had other children! Jesus gave His Mother to the care of St. John at the foot of the cross, strange thing to do if He had brothers.

The Holy Trinity paid homage to Mary......

Gabriel sent to Mary with a message from God , Hail, so highly favoured, Hail, full of grace.....etc.

mascaput

gimmebroadband wrote: »

You can beg to differ all you like, and it doesn't matter what it may look like or seem like to others, we don't worship Mary, we honour her.
Mary NEVER had other children! Jesus gave His Mother to the care of St. John at the foot of the cross, strange thing to do if He had brothers.

The Holy Trinity paid homage to Mary......

Gabriel sent to Mary with a message from God , Hail, so highly favoured, Hail, full of grace.....etc.

Worship: to render religious reverence and homage to, to feel an adoring reverence or regard for (any person or thing). Reverence is the paying of honour, devotion, homage, adoration, or to idolise, venerate, revere, adore, glorify, idolize, or adulate.

Catholics venerate Mary and refer to her as the 'Star of the Sea', a title previously applied to Ishtar/Venus. So, as a ruler, a queen, she is venerated, worshipped and idolised, which is witnessed by all the statues that you see all over the countryside in RC countries like Ireland, so there is no point in denying that Catholics worship her.

The adulatory phrase 'Ave Maria" directly means 'praised be/hail Mary', which is an expression of reverence or worship, and like her pre-Christian counterpart, Artemis-Diana, she is referred to as 'Queen of Heaven, though when the custom of representing her with bleeding eyes came in I do not know.

As for Mary not having other children, you really do need to read up on James (called the Just), as Jesus' brothers — James as well as Jude, Simon and Joses — are all named in Matthew 13:55 and Mark 6:3 and mentioned elsewhere. James' name always appears first in lists, which suggests he was the eldest among them. In the passage in Josephus' Jewish Antiquities (20.9.1) the Jewish historian describes James as "the brother of Jesus who is called Christ".
Also, Paul, recounting his conversion, recalls "Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to visit Caphas/Peter and remained with him fifteen days. But I saw none of the other apostles except James the Lord's brother."

The 'Holy Trinity' concept was voted on and established as dogma by the Catholic Church at the Council of Nicaea in 325 ad, as the Jewish religion had no trinity being, as they said that their God was 'One'. Jews to this day do not have have this tripartite idea of God, and Jesus was a Jew, so if he never mentioned the Trinity, then it could not be real, just like the perpetual virginity of Mary, who was also Jewish, and not Roman Catholic.