Dynamos (recommendations, experience, anything at all)

CramCycle

I had written a story here but decided it was a bit sh1t. I'm condidering getting a dynamo hub for my new bike. I'll be doing a few night rides over the year and wanted to hear peoples experience. Are they worth it? What differences do they make to the bike (ie are they major)? I used to have a dynamo on the bike (my dads bike) when I was a kid but don't remember much. Presume a hub isn't as slowing

More importantly, Any specific hubs, good deals, fully built wheels to recommend, so far bike24 seems the best deal but since I am not sure thought best to ask.

penexpers

I have two dynamo equipped wheels and I wouldn't have it any other way.

One of them has the (low end) Shimano DH 3N-D30 and the other has the slightly higher end (Ultegra level) Shimano DH 3D-.

For lights, at the moment I have Busch and Muller Busch + Müller Lumotec IQ Fly RT Senso Plus http://www.bike24.com/1.php?content=8;navigation=1;product=17528;page=1;menu=1000,5,66;mid=39;pgc=137:505 which is very bright and Busch + Müller Seculite Plus http://www.bike24.com/1.php?content=8;navigation=1;product=4975;page=2;menu=1000,5,66;mid=39;pgc=137:507 which has a standlight.

The advantages I find are: the lights always work, no batteries to worry about charging, no such thing as runtimes, the lights can be very bright.

I got one of my wheels off a German seller on ebay, was only 50 euro for complete wheel IIRC. Got the lights of sjscycles.co.uk but it looks like bike24.com have better prices.

rottenhat

The Schmidt SON deluxe is the state of the art hub - lower resistance than the original SON, which itself was supposed to be equivalent to climbing 4 meters per kilometer, but it clocks in at close to €200. The Shimano hubs are cheaper (less than half the price, I think) but have somewhat higher resistance. Modern LED lights like the Busch & Muller IQ Cyo range reach full brightness at around walking speed and are more than powerful enough. You might remember after the Muffin Mosey, Eddie Dunne was saying that the resistance was so low on the new Schmidts that you might as well leave your lights on all day. Velo Orange have hinted that there is a new hub coming onto the market this year that will be better than the Schmidt but who knows if it really will make it to market on schedule, or if it will actually better than, or as reliable as, the Schmidt.

The advantages are as Penexpers describes, and having had one or two issues with inadequately charged batteries over the last year, I have sworn off battery lights and have a Schmidt on the way. If it's for a commuter bike, I would say the Shimano hubs are more than good enough. If it's for audax, then you'd probably find it worth paying the extra for the Schmidt because even a little resistance can become significant over a 1200k. Lace it to an Open Pro and off you go.

doozerie

A couple of years back I read up a bit on dynamo hubs as I was considering one for my commuter. I didn't get one in the end, for a variety of reasons one of which was that I actually alternate between two bikes for commuting so I'd be doubling my costs, but I was impressed by what I read. Here are some of the links that I saved from then, some of which were already old at the time so might not be entirely relevant any longer, but there may be some info in there that you'll find useful:

* Discussion of Schmidt SON from Peter White Cycles - from stuff that I have read from him before he seems to be quite blunt in his appraisal of bike stuff, which can be useful when you are trying to wade through marketing blurb.

* The Schmidt SON hub website, with links to some other (third party) discussion pages including the one above.

* Brief discussion of dynamo hubs including some measurements of power vs load and power vs speed for some specific pieces of kit.

One of the important things to consider is how to remain lit when stopped at traffic lights, etc. As far as I can remember, some and perhaps many of the hubs/lights tackle this with some form of capacitor which continues to power the light when stopped for some pre-defined amount of time. I'd hope that a decent modern hub+light setup would provide this as standard but it's certainly something I'd check specifically for. On my commute I reckon I'd ideally need at least 3 minutes of light while stationary, and perhaps as many as 5 minutes at some traffic light-controlled junctions where the lights are not triggered by a bike - I don't know whether those figures are well within the bounds of modern hubs/lights though.

rottenhat

doozerie wrote: »

* Discussion of Schmidt SON from Peter White Cycles - from stuff that I have read from him before he seems to be quite blunt in his appraisal of bike stuff, which can be useful when you are trying to wade through marketing blurb.

+1. Peter White's site is one of the most informative out there - very detailed, and no hype. I ordered stuff from him when I was living in the US.

penexpers

rottenhat wrote: »

The Schmidt SON deluxe is the state of the art hub - lower resistance than the original SON, which itself was supposed to be equivalent to climbing 4 meters per kilometer, but it clocks in at close to €200. The Shimano hubs are cheaper (less than half the price, I think) but have somewhat higher resistance. Modern LED lights like the Busch & Muller IQ Cyo range reach full brightness at around walking speed and are more than powerful enough. You might remember after the Muffin Mosey, Eddie Dunne was saying that the resistance was so low on the new Schmidts that you might as well leave your lights on all day. Velo Orange have hinted that there is a new hub coming onto the market this year that will be better than the Schmidt but who knows if it really will make it to market on schedule, or if it will actually better than, or as reliable as, the Schmidt.

The advantages are as Penexpers describes, and having had one or two issues with inadequately charged batteries over the last year, I have sworn off battery lights and have a Schmidt on the way. If it's for a commuter bike, I would say the Shimano hubs are more than good enough. If it's for audax, then you'd probably find it worth paying the extra for the Schmidt because even a little resistance can become significant over a 1200k. Lace it to an Open Pro and off you go.

Dammit anyway. Now I have hub envy

Daniel S

Would it be possible to use a dynamo to charge an iPhone? Well, of course its possible, but would it be practical I should say :rolleyes: I've built a sort of shower proof box for my iPhone (so I can use the Cyclemeter or Tomtom apps), but the battery runs down very quickly using GPS.

CramCycle

mtb_kng wrote: »

Would it be possible to use a dynamo to charge an iPhone? Well, of course its possible, but would it be practical I should say :rolleyes: I've built a sort of shower proof box for my iPhone (so I can use the Cyclemeter or Tomtom apps), but the battery runs down very quickly using GPS.

You can get a USB carger like this: http://cgi.ebay.ie/BICYCLE-DYNAMO-POWERED-PDA-USB-CHARGER-6VAC-To-5-2VDC_W0QQitemZ200553188890QQcmdZViewItemQQssPageNameZRSS:B:SRCH:IE:102#ht_2397wt_1139

Might be (almost certainly) better ones around, just an example.

penexpers

mtb_kng wrote: »

Would it be possible to use a dynamo to charge an iPhone? Well, of course its possible, but would it be practical I should say :rolleyes: I've built a sort of shower proof box for my iPhone (so I can use the Cyclemeter or Tomtom apps), but the battery runs down very quickly using GPS.

B+M E-werk : http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/ewerk.asp
Tout Terrain Plug : http://www.tout-terrain.de/2/products/components/the-plug/index.html

etc..

There are quite a few of them around.

CramCycle

At the minute I am between these two:

http://www.rosebikes.co.uk/article/shimano-nabendynamo-dh-3n80
or
http://www.rosebikes.co.uk/article/son-28-nabendynamo

The Shimano is winning on price but as its new, tests/reviews on reliability are thin on the ground, it's also lighter than the SON but not by enough for me to care.

I have till the paycheck next month to decide though, so no rush

Thanks for all the recommendations/links, more welcome if anything comes to your attention.

DualFrontDiscs

I've a SON hub on my tourer. It rocks. It's heavier than a regular hub (duh), but in terms of additional resistance, it's very slight.

I use one of the B&M LED light up front and a zzing for charging USB devices (I use my iPhone as a GPS).

The SON is a great investment.

I love mine.

DFD.

carthoris

Hi,

I purchased a Shimano DH-3N80 from Rose a few months ago along with a B&M IQ Cyo light (http://www.rosebikes.co.uk/article/b--m-lumotec-iq-cyo-senso-plus-60-lux) and rear light (http://www.rosebikes.co.uk/article/b--m-toplight-flat-plus) all for less than 150 Euro.

The Shimano hub was chosen over the SON as it is a third of the price of it. I was not sure that a hub was something I would use all the time and didn't want to spend too much initially but now I consider it money very well spent. The hub has been installed for about 3 months and a few hundred Km and there has not been any issues so far - as you would expect. One thing I would say is that it appears to be difficult to get a 32h hub so I have a 36h on front which is odd considering there is a 32h on the back with a full rack.

Both lights have standlights that charge in a few minutes and discharge after about 8 minutes when stopped. Obviously once you start moving the light up no matter how long you have been stopped.

The lights and hub are on my commuter and they are really impressive. Cycling along dark country roads I have noticed that some cars now dip their headlights before they get around the corner. The light from the Cyo is from a refractor which focuses it efficiently. It is almost as if you have a rectangle of light which covers both sides of the road but does not try and light the sky and also will not upset oncoming traffic. And it is very bright even at slow speed.

I would readily recommend a hub and light for anyone who commutes during the winter.

rottenhat

DualFrontDiscs wrote: »

I've a SON hub on my tourer. It rocks. It's heavier than a regular hub (duh),

Indeed, but don't forget to factor in the 4 AA batteries you're not carrying to power a B&M Ixon, or a Hope or whatever (and indeed the spares you would be carrying on a multi-day event)...I'm not sure if it balances out, but it would certainly mitigate the weight penalty.

Lumen

rottenhat wrote: »

Indeed, but don't forget to factor in the 4 AA batteries you're not carrying to power a B&M Ixon, or a Hope or whatever (and indeed the spares you would be carrying on a multi-day event)...I'm not sure if it balances out, but it would certainly mitigate the weight penalty.

Ah, but it's rotating mass in the hub. That makes it at least ten times worse.

This thread is making me want to start my next One Damn Heavy Bike To Rule Them All project, a On-One Pompetamine Versa with mudguards, SON hub, B&M front and rear dynamo lights.

Anyone know what the deal is with disc brakes and dynamo hubs?

edit: that On-One page says "Shimano Alfine dynamo front wheels are now available on request. Please contact us for details.". Hmmm.

rottenhat

Lumen wrote: »

Ah, but it's rotating mass in the hub. That makes it at least ten times worse.

Hey, I only said "mitigate"....

Anyone know what the deal is with disc brakes and dynamo hubs?

Schmidt build disc-compatible versions of the SON, not sure about Shimano.

http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/schmidt-schmidt-son-28-disc-dynamo-front-hub-silver-prod22032/

Lumen

A nice clear selection of dynamo front and rear lights at SJS.

Haven't compared prices with bike24.

rottenhat

CramCycle wrote: »

Thanks for all the recommendations/links, more welcome if anything comes to your attention.

YACF is always worth checking:

http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=22724.0

Doesn't really answer your question I guess, but it does strongly imply that the difference between Shimano and Schmidt in performance terms is small enough that you might as well get the Shimano unless (like me) you are the kind of person who doesn't mind paying top dollar for the Phil Wood hubs, Chris King headsets, TA chainrings etc.

By the way, you can get the SON deluxe from Move Cycles for the same price as Roseversand are offering the SON 28:

http://move-cycles.com/shop/product_info.php/info/p3196_Schmidt-Son-Deluxe-Nabendynamo-poliert.html/XTCsid/94c9e50d98e18a4e4c3b25b5841f3436

Or a tenner extra for the anodized black version.

Just got an email to say that mine is shipping today.

And Taxman found the mob on eBay who will do you the deluxe laced to an Open Pro for €255 plus shipping that Eddie was talking about - maybe he will post a link?

trad

I have one of these at home http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=9080&start=0


a Subitez dynamoe that bolts on under the bottom bracket and runs on the face of the rear tyre. This one appears new and unused, you can have it if you want.

I had one fitted to my bike years ago and with a halogen headlight you could have cars flashing you.

carthoris

Lumen wrote: »

A nice clear selection of dynamo front and rear lights at SJS.

Haven't compared prices with bike24.

SJS was one of the sites I was considering purchasing from, but the prices are far less in Germany. E.g the Shimano DH-3N80 on SJS is 120 Euro - you can get a full wheel with the hub for that on Bike 24: http://www.bike24.com/p212183.html or just the hub for 63 Euro from Rose http://www.rosebikes.co.uk/article/shimano-nabendynamo-dh-3n80.

penexpers

Lumen wrote: »

edit: that On-One page says "Shimano Alfine dynamo front wheels are now available on request. Please contact us for details.". Hmmm.

One of my Shimano ones is on a bike that has disc brakes

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/Shimano3N70.asp

The tax man

rottenhat wrote: »

And Taxman found the mob on eBay who will do you the deluxe laced to an Open Pro for €255 plus shipping that Eddie was talking about - maybe he will post a link?

Here you go folks. Haven't contacted yet to confirm shipping costs to Ireland.

...and in English.

trad

You'd buy a lot of batteries for €255 plus shipping plus a wheel build.

Lumen

trad wrote: »

You'd buy a lot of batteries for €255 plus shipping plus a wheel build.

That price is for a built wheel.

The value is based on convenience, not cost.

CramCycle

trad wrote: »

You'd buy a lot of batteries for €255 plus shipping plus a wheel build.

DH-3N80: 69
Open pro rim: 44
Spokes: 15

Attempt to build myself: free but the benefits should be worth a fair bit.

Paying a bike shop to fix my mistakes: 20

Total: 148euro

Could also get a fully built one from bike24.com for 150(including shipping) with A319 rims (http://www.bike24.com/1.php?content=8;navigation=1;menu=1000,2,140,141;product=12183), just not sure if they'll suit my bike as the rims are a bit wider but it's a consideration. AFAIK my bike will take up to 28mm tyres and be OK but the A319 rims are for 28 to 35mm so if anyone has recommendations there that would be great.

rottenhat

More on the Velo-Orange dynamo hubs:

http://velo-orange.blogspot.com/2010/10/those-new-dyno-hubs.html

Should be in stock soon - early March at the latest. Apparently the big innovation is being able to switch the hub off so that there is no drag at all when you're not powering lights. Drag would be equivalent to the Shimano hubs when the dynamo is in use.

rottenhat

Just got my wheel from Joe Daly's this afternoon and spent a happy hour fettling, only managing to eff one thing up along the way, followed by several minutes of gawping in wonder as I generated light by spinning a simple bicycle wheel. I'm feeling so audax that I think I'll load up the saddlebag right now and knock out a couple of hundred kilometers before morning.

CramCycle

Went with a shimano DH-3N80 (36 holes) with CXP33 rims, rimtape, tube and a GP4000 tyre for 169 euro.

Just ordered a Schmidt edelux as my front light, I'll throw up pictures when I get it all up and running.

Thanks for all the advice.

penexpers

Interestingly enough, Velo Orange have released their switchable dyno hub

http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/components/wheelsets-rims-hubs/hubs/vo-switchable-dynamo-hub.html

Looks interesting.

cyco

shimano just launched a new disc/dynamo hub in their new XT groupo. think it comes in at 480g and is supposed to have much lower drag when the light's on or off. Sounds like they might have finally bridged the gap to the SON deluxe..

Oh, and anyone buying a dynohub be sure to go for the ones that claim the lowest light-off-drag. There's nothing worse than that brakes rubbing feeling all day every day...

CramCycle

penexpers wrote: »

Interestingly enough, Velo Orange have released their switchable dyno hub

http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/components/wheelsets-rims-hubs/hubs/vo-switchable-dynamo-hub.html

Looks interesting.

I wonder what the resistance on the hub when it is on?

Looks good, have to say, while I don't notice the difference in drag with my lights on compared to my old wheel but after a long night you notice the lovely boost when you flick the light off.

Best investment I ever made. considering a second one for my other bike.

Also found my camera charger, unfortunately it took me so long I have now lost my camera

The tax man

penexpers wrote: »

Interestingly enough, Velo Orange have released their switchable dyno hub

http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/components/wheelsets-rims-hubs/hubs/vo-switchable-dynamo-hub.html

Looks interesting.

That's a big switch.:eek:

Canis Lupus

I've got the SON28 on my Sherpa with Lumotec Cyo 60n light. Can't say I've noticed any drag with the light on but haven't experimented much with it.

rottenhat

I haven't noticed any drag whatsoever with the SON deluxe. I would think the days of noticeable drag from a hub dynamo are gone at this point.

TinyExplosions

Sorry to ressurect the thread, but it looks like I'm also going down the dynamo route, and was wondering what some of you more experienced heads thought of the ol Halogen vs LED debate.... is it a case of LEDs are worth the slight premium for trouble free lighting, or is there still a case for going halogen?

rottenhat

Definitely worth the slight premium for LED - lighter, more efficient, no bulbs to replace (even sourcing the buggers can be irritating).

CramCycle

I'd go for the LED over the Halogen.

Also doesn't have to be premium in cost as you could build your own with a little bit of research. I haven't but it should be quite doable, thinking of trying it for my second dynamo.

TinyExplosions

Excellent, that's one more question answered!

Now to decide between the Lumotech Lyt and the IQ Cyo, and then figure out a nifty way of combining them with a reecharge for charging purposes and I'm sorted! Some sort of switch needed to flick between the light and the charger I think....

rottenhat

CramCycle wrote: »

Also doesn't have to be premium in cost as you could build your own with a little bit of research.

I guess if your time is effectively valueless that might work out cheaper....

CramCycle

rottenhat wrote: »

I guess if your time is effectively valueless that might work out cheaper....

Well if my boss and the government are to be believed my time gets 20% less valuable every year for the past few

I am doing it out of interest and to see can I do it, using a hub I successfully destroyed in an accident a fortnight ago.

@ Tiny: I'd pick the Cyo over the Lyt based on reviews, you can pick up switches from eBay (I got a fugly one for about 10euro) or a classy looking one for alot more.

TinyExplosions

CramCycle wrote: »

@ Tiny: I'd pick the Cyo over the Lyt based on reviews, you can pick up switches from eBay (I got a fugly one for about 10euro) or a classy looking one for alot more.

Cheers for that, do you happen to have a link to the switches? Have tried a few variations on "Dynamo Switch" "inline switch" etc and not come up with anything

CramCycle

TinyExplosions wrote: »

Cheers for that, do you happen to have a link to the switches? Have tried a few variations on "Dynamo Switch" "inline switch" etc and not come up with anything

Alas I was wrong, the one I got was a switch between lights and USB charger although that might be OK for you, I got it for 13 pound sterling but it is now upto 25 pound sterling.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BICYCLE-DYNAMO-POWERED-USB-CHARGER-6VAC-5-2VDC-/200606371157?pt=UK_sportsleisure_cycling_bikeparts_SR&hash=item2eb5124d55#ht_2397wt_1139

There are probably better ones out there, another boardsie was telling me about one he picked up for 100/150euro, with multiple chargers, that has the switch built in but I can't remember who now, sorry.

TinyExplosions

CramCycle wrote: »

Alas I was wrong, the one I got was a switch between lights and USB charger although that might be OK for you, I got it for 13 pound sterling but it is now upto 25 pound sterling.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BICYCLE-DYNAMO-POWERED-USB-CHARGER-6VAC-5-2VDC-/200606371157?pt=UK_sportsleisure_cycling_bikeparts_SR&hash=item2eb5124d55#ht_2397wt_1139

There are probably better ones out there, another boardsie was telling me about one he picked up for 100/150euro, with multiple chargers, that has the switch built in but I can't remember who now, sorry.

Cheers for that! It might work, though may be too complicated... basically, I'd have a light, and have a charger unit that I want to run off a dynamo -some stuff I've read says that both can be connected all the time, and you just use the power switch on the light to stop charging, but a little inline switch may be better -am sure I could fabricate one it's just getting everything together!