Orange Order elect new Leader-has "vowed to find a fresh way to resolve disputes"

Wolfe Tone

The Orange Order's new leader has vowed to find a fresh way to resolve marching disputes in Northern Ireland but insisted he would not be talking to Sinn Fein, nationalist residents' groups or the Parades Commission to do so.
Co Tyrone farmer Edward Stevenson made clear his election as Grand Master would not herald a step change in the organisation's approach to contentious parades.

The 55-year-old married father-of-three from the village of Ardstraw was elected unopposed at a meeting of senior Orangemen in Co Londonderry. He replaces Robert Saulters who held the job for 14 years.

Within hours of taking over, the former deputy grand master demonstrated he was not for changing direction by rebuffing a fresh invite for talks from Sinn Fein.

The Order's leadership has consistently refused to engage with the republican party or hold talks with nationalist residents' groups or recognise the Parade's Commission - the official body that adjudicates on contentious marches in the region.

"The leadership may have changed but the Grand Lodge's policy is still the same and that is because it still remains a good policy," he said.

"We will definitely not be getting involved with the Parades Commission or those other two groups (Sinn Fein or residents' groups)."

But he said he was committed to finding a solution.

"A lot of other people talk about having a fair and equal society, but it has to be fair and equitable to all and that means that others start to tolerate us too," he said.

Mr Stevenson, a County Grand Master of Tyrone, becomes Orangeism's figurehead at a time when disagreements over parades continue to cause political tensions.



Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/new-orange-leader-in-parades-pledge-15046608.html#ixzz1ADYGEz4n

How will he find a solution by ignoring everyone?


I would hope the new approach would be sticking to unionist areas, but I doubt it.

nesf

The organisation's leadership is a relic left over from very different times. It'll take a generation to change most likely, more's the pity.

dabestman1

won't change anything, still be the same racist organisation as before, wait until dumcree

KeithAFC

Its their religious organisation. They can do what they want with it.

junder

dabestman1 wrote: »

won't change anything, still be the same racist organisation as before, wait until dumcree

How can it be racist when it has black members?

maxxie

A new grand wizard with the same old mentality!

chucken1

KeithAFC wrote: »

Its their religious organisation. They can do what they want with it.

What has religion to to with being a loyalist? (Your own words.you call your self a loyalist) You've never said if you're religious!

KeithAFC

chucken1 wrote: »

What has religion to to with being a loyalist? (Your own words.you call your self a loyalist) You've never said if you're religious!

Im not. I ain't going to tell the Orange Order or Orange members what to do though.

chucken1

KeithAFC wrote: »

Its their religious organisation. They can do what they want with it.

You said this!

KeithAFC

chucken1 wrote: »

You said this!

Yes. The Orange Order is a religious organisation.

Seth Brundle

chucken1 wrote: »

What has religion to to with being a loyalist? (Your own words.you call your self a loyalist) You've never said if you're religious!

Religion is at the heart of Orangeism.
See the first sentence on their homepage*:

We are a Protestant fraternity with members throughout the world.

and see this guff

pablomakaveli

From the website:

We proclaim "Civil and religious liberty for all : special privileges for none". We do not deny to others their civil and religious liberties; we expect the same tolerance from them. We shall be strong for truth, for peace, for the making of a good, fair and just society to which we shall contribute liberally as good citizens.

Me arse.:rolleyes:

T runner

KeithAFC wrote: »

Its their religious organisation. They can do what they want with it.

They cant or at least they shouldnt be allowed to hassle other people becuase of their beliefs or becuase of their wifes beliefs.

The OO is very much off centre stage and is in terminal decline. There is no future for them in ireland.

junder

T runner wrote: »

They cant or at least they shouldnt be allowed to hassle other people becuase of their beliefs or becuase of their wifes beliefs.

The OO is very much off centre stage and is in terminal decline. There is no future for them in ireland.

I know that is what you would like to happen but I am afraid the orange order, the royal perceptory and my own apprentice boys are very much here to stay. So tell me this, what gives you the right to determine who can or can not be part of this islands heritage, are you not being as intolerant as you accuse others of being?

T runner

junder wrote: »

I know that is what you would like to happen but I am afraid the orange order, the royal perceptory and my own apprentice boys are very much here to stay. So tell me this, what gives you the right to determine who can or can not be part of this islands heritage, are you not being as intolerant as you accuse others of being?

Who have I accused of being intolerant exactly?

The facts are that the OO is on the decline. It is no longer affiliated with teh Unionist parties. It has no popularity in the Protestant middle classes. Its numbers are on the wane. Drumcree passes off quietly every year. Protestants are starting to distance themselves from these sectarian organisations and this is a hugely welcome development.

The KKK has heritage too. Doesnt mean it needs to be tolerated.

KeithAFC

Still got lots of lodges all over the UK. We are moving into a more secular society, not because the Orange Order may be a bit in the dark ages with some of its views. A lot of people don't believe in god anymore.

junder

There are new lodges forming all the time of the top of my head there is a new lodge in Leicester and Cardiff, presently I am visiting in laws in an English town that has had it's own mens, ladies and juvenile lodges for decades as well as 2 flute bands

Nodin

junder wrote: »

I know that is what you would like to happen but I am afraid the orange order, the royal perceptory and my own apprentice boys are very much here to stay. So tell me this, what gives you the right to determine who can or can not be part of this islands heritage, are you not being as intolerant as you accuse others of being?

Perhaps he is. That really doesn't lessen the rather nasty history of the OO and other organisations here and in Scotland etc. And unfortunately the new man at the top seems committed to carrying on regardless.

dabestman1

junder wrote: »

How can it be racist when it has black members?

i meant against catholics

KeithAFC

dabestman1 wrote: »

i meant against catholics

Thats a race now? So they were born Catholics?

Nodin

dabestman1 wrote: »

i meant against catholics

"sectarian" is the word.

Wolfe Tone

Nodin wrote: »

"sectarian" is the word.

Or you could say they are bigots

KeithAFC

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Or you could say they are bigots

The word was racist. :rolleyes:

Wolfe Tone

KeithAFC wrote: »

The word was racist. :rolleyes:

Heres a question for you and junder, do you think the OO should talk to SF, or residents groups?

And if not, why?

Bottle_of_Smoke

The biggest riot site is Ardoyne and to be honest there I think the blame there is solely with the rioters. It is a main road with no alternative route for the marchers not some little estate.

Furthermore the commission ruled that the bands cannot play music/drums whilst going past the flashpoint area.

What could dialogue with residents groups achieve? the bands are already silent. Rioters just wanna riot there's no political motive

KeithAFC

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Heres a question for you and junder, do you think the OO should talk to SF, or residents groups?

And if not, why?

To resident groups, perhaps but no to SF imo.

danbohan

KeithAFC wrote: »

To resident groups, perhaps but no to SF imo.

really keith , and in other posts you were waxing lyrical about the ''process we have in place '' which you may or may not be aware involves sinn fein . you cant be too alcarte in your choices, you are into democracy or you are not or could it be that unionism has not really changed still as sectarian and bigoted as ever ?

KeithAFC

danbohan wrote: »

really keith , and in other posts you were waxing lyrical about the ''process we have in place '' which you may or may not be aware involves sinn fein . you cant be too alcarte in your choices, you are into democracy or you are not or could it be that unionism has not really changed still as sectarian and bigoted as ever ?

Im just giving my view. I don't like Sinn Fein as you well know. Neither do the OO. I don't think they have to talk to Sinn Fein if they don't want to.

Wolfe Tone

KeithAFC wrote: »

Im just giving my view. I don't like Sinn Fein as you well know. Neither do the OO. I don't think they have to talk to Sinn Fein if they don't want to.

SF dont like the OO, they have offered to talk.

KeithAFC

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

SF dont like the OO, they have offered to talk.

So? They don't like SF and its their human right not to want to talk to them. Fair play is what i say.

Wolfe Tone

KeithAFC wrote: »

So? They don't like SF and its their human right not to want to talk to them. Fair play is what i say.

Fair play for refusing to engage?

KeithAFC

Fair play to them for using their human rights to not wanting to talk to SF.

maxxie

KeithAFC wrote: »

Fair play to them for using their human rights to not wanting to talk to SF.

What about the human rights of the Nationalist people who become prisoners in their homes when these people have their marches..

KeithAFC

maxxie wrote: »

What about the human rights of the Nationalist people who become prisoners in their homes when these people have their marches..

Its up to the police to stop those parades.

Fratton Fred

maxxie wrote: »

What about the human rights of the Nationalist people who become prisoners in their homes when these people have their marches..

Surely that's a job for the parades commission not SF?

Wolfe Tone

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Surely that's a job for the parades commission not SF?

The OO dont recognize the parades commission though.

Fratton Fred

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

The OO dont recognize the parades commission though.

Imo they should.

maxxie

KeithAFC wrote: »

Its up to the police to stop those parades.

Why should anyone have to step in? The OO should not be doing it in the first place! What do they try and prove..

It reopens old wounds and creates violence

KeithAFC

maxxie wrote: »

Why should anyone have to step in? The OO should not be doing it in the first place! What do they try and prove..

It reopens old wounds and creates violence

They aren't going stop doing it. So the police either stop it or just let them keep doing it.

Wolfe Tone

KeithAFC wrote: »

They aren't going stop doing it. So the police either stop it or just let them keep doing it.

So they should stop them so.

KeithAFC

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

So they should stop them so.

Well they should. Problem is, they will get thousands of orange men coming from all over Ireland possibly the UK to unite as one. A bit like Drumcree. If those little kids didn't get killed in that fire, that stand off would of went on for ages. Orange men from all over going to it.

maxxie

KeithAFC wrote: »

They aren't going stop doing it. So the police either stop it or just let them keep doing it.

So these people are not interested in a peacefull N.Ireland!

Well then they dont belong in a Future N.Ireland! Simple as that..

Every 12th July ive noticed so many people coming to Dublin to get away from it! Does that not tell you something.

KeithAFC

maxxie wrote: »

So these people are not interested in a peacefull N.Ireland!

Well then they dont belong in a Future N.Ireland! Simple as that..

Every 12th July ive noticed so many people coming to Dublin to get away from it! Does that not tell you something.

The orange traditions will still exist in years to come but the religious element will go away because lets be honest, we are heading towards a more secular society.

Will always get band parades in the province though.

maxxie

KeithAFC wrote: »

The orange traditions will still exist in years to come but the religious element will go away because lets be honest, we are heading towards a more secular society.

Will always get band parades in the province though.

Thats a given of course but no point in going into nationalists areas! A bit of respect would be welcomed and returned.

OhNoYouDidn't

KeithAFC wrote: »

Its their religious organisation. They can do what they want with it.

And that is fair enough if they stick to the privacy of their lodges. When they start using public roads and inconveniencing the locals who have made it clear that they object to being inconvenienced, it becomes an entirely different story.

Pity that the new Grand Wizard seems to be even more insular than the last one

OhNoYouDidn't

KeithAFC wrote: »

The orange traditions will still exist in years to come but the religious element will go away because lets be honest, we are heading towards a more secular society.

Will always get band parades in the province though.

This is interesting. Can you explain how a 'secular' anti-catholic organisation would work?

Rodin

They could try stopping their sectarian marches

Bottle_of_Smoke

maxxie wrote: »

Thats a given of course but no point in going into nationalists areas! A bit of respect would be welcomed and returned.

Only a tiny percentage go into nationalist areas. When they do it is usually because it is a main route and there's conditions attached like marching silently.

KeithAFC

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

This is interesting. Can you explain how a 'secular' anti-catholic organisation would work?

Don't see how it wouldn’t.

KeithAFC

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

And that is fair enough if they stick to the privacy of their lodges. When they start using public roads and inconveniencing the locals who have made it clear that they object to being inconvenienced, it becomes an entirely different story.

Pity that the new Grand Wizard seems to be even more insular than the last one

The Hunger strike marches take place in Belfast, in public city roads with people shopping nearby.

OhNoYouDidn't

KeithAFC wrote: »

The Hunger strike marches take place in Belfast, in public city roads with people shopping nearby.

Do they go into loyalist areas?