Landlord (letting agent) threatening to change locks

123tracey123

Ok, we didnt pay the rent in for december because we couldnt afford it now Jans is due. We (me my husband and 3 yr old son) have decided we need to move out. we told our letting agent today as he texted us about Jans paymnt we advised him that we couldnt afford it any longer & we are moving out and will be out by nxt friday (15th) he is now advising if we dont pay the rent tomoro he will be around with a lock smith tomorrow at lunch (we already advised him we would be at work) We have not had any written notice from him which we advised him but he advised he sent us a text in Dec looking for payment and as far as he is concerned that was his notice.. I just want to know where we stand here I am terrified that I will come home from work tomorrow and the locks are changed my friend is minding our child who is 3 in the house tomorrow as my husband has a few days work !!!

BostonB

Sorry to hear your trouble. Where are you going on the 15th? Could you move there earlier? I expect the agent doesn't believe you'll move on the 15th. I don't see any other reason why they wouldn't wait one more week. They've already waited over a month. While the LL will get fined for an illegal eviction, it looks like it works out less expensive than waiting and going to court. Unfortunately.

123tracey123

But can he do it ?? I have been looking online about this and it seems that there is a protocol to follow 14 days & 28 day letters which none have been done. We are movin into my mothers house as my bro is moving out !! we have only every recvd 1 text in Dec then again today & now he is advising us that if we dont have the rent tomorrow he will be around with the Lock Smith!!!!!!!!! Im so worried, Im going to call him tomorrow and see if we can arrange something and might not be any harm in contacting the PRTB

Kimia

But Tracy, you're not paying your rent. Of course he's entitled to evict you. Following legal protocol of course.

Zamboni

I doubt his text would be a valid notice of termination of tenancy.
Get onto the PRTB first thing in the morning for advice.

6. What do I do if my landlord gives me a notice of termination of tenancy and I feel that it is not valid?

If you receive a notice of termination of tenancy and you consider that it is not valid, then you should contact the PRTB by telephone (01 - 6350600) or email (disputes@prtb.ie) within 28 days of receipt of the notice to discuss the matter

Doop

They're out a months payment (after the deposit) and you've confessed that you do not intend paying the rent you owe (2 months), yet you think they should wait another week for ye to go. Honestly in my humble opinion the minute you knew you couldnt afford the rent anymore you should of moved out.... fair is fair (im not a landlord by the way).

Legally your entitled to 28 days notice after you breached your lease agreement.

goat2

you say you could not afford rent, but why did you not attempt to pay some of the rent, he still has to give you notice in writing dated and signed

Victor

First thing in the morning, try to contact Threshold www.threshold.ie

123tracey123 wrote: »

he will be around with a lock smith tomorrow at lunch

He isn't entitled to change the locks. If he tries this, call the Garda. While you haven't paid the rent, it is still your home and you are entitled to peaceful enjoyment until such time as you are either served with an eviction notice or move out.

123tracey123 wrote: »

he advised he sent us a text in Dec looking for payment and as far as he is concerned that was his notice..

What did the text say? There are certain requirement of the notice to leave and I suspect all he did was ask for the money.

Can you pay some money to keep him happy for the moment? To show your good faith?

Where are you going to live? Do you have the money you need? It might be useful to talk to the local Community Welfare Officer (usually located in the local health centre). http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/Find_a_Service/PrimaryCare/Health_Centres/

Let us know if you need help.

Kimia wrote: »

But Tracy, you're not paying your rent. Of course he's entitled to evict you. Following legal protocol of course.

Only a court can order an eviction. While the landlord / agent can start the process that leads to an eviction, doing it themselves is illegal

goat2

he is not allowed to change locks, will have to give notice in writing, and anyway you say you will be leaving shortly, i would offer what i could afford to pay if i were you, at least he sees you are trying, but not offering some thing is not right,

BostonB

Will the Garda do anything in a case like this?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1109/housing.html

...There were almost 1,000 cases of tenants being illegally evicted by landlords last year...

Seems like LL's aren't waiting for the PRTB/Court route, I've heard it takes 12 months or more, with the LL paying their own court costs, its probably cheaper to pay the fine, and re-rent the property. Cut their loss'es.

Legally he can't do this.
However you are working, your husband has a few days work and you have not paid Dec rent nor are you going to pay January's

As you are a new poster I would be very slow to tell you the legal ins and outs of this as I fear you will might take advantage of the situation and the landlord who seems to be the innocent party here.

Good to see the letting agent is handling it this way though in fairness to him, he may not be legally right but the Gardai won't give a fiddlers feck and rightfully so too.

Victor

Victor wrote: »

Can you pay some money to keep him happy for the moment? To show your good faith?

She has done nothing so far to show good faith.

Dunne.Drift

Get a family member to stay in the house & you go of to your local welfare reliving office & demand money from him! Dont leave because he has to once you have the right grounds to stand on. Im not going into detail but if your 100% legit, no money cant afford to live etc...

Dunne.Drift

Dunne.Drift wrote: »

Get a family member to stay in the house & you go of to your local welfare reliving office & demand money from him! Dont leave because he has to once you have the right grounds to stand on. Im not going into detail but if your 100% legit, no money cant afford to live etc...

That would be a good idea if the money would be passed onto the landlord, however as the lady has mentioned she is working and so too is her husband this week I can't see the local welfare throwing (more) money at them.

OP are you / ye currently receiving social welfare ?

goat2

you can always stay and draw it out, saying you cannot afford rent but offer less money per month, by doing this, you would be able to stay on until he takes you to court which could be up to a year of tooing and froing, once you make an offer the ball is in your court, but by not even trying to pay, give off bad vibes, and make him angrier
.............................................................you say your friend is minding your child tomorrow while you are away, well if he does try to throw them out he is in deep trouble, connot trow a child out on pavement , if he has any sense he will not even try

Victor

goat2 wrote: »

you can always stay and draw it out, saying you cannot afford rent but offer less money per month, by doing this, you would be able to stay on until he takes you to court which could be up to a year of tooing and froing, once you make an offer the ball is in your court, but by not even trying to pay, give off bad vibes, and make him angrier
.............................................................you say your friend is minding your child tomorrow while you are away, well if he does try to throw them out he is in deep trouble, connot trow a child out on pavement , if he has any sense he will not even try

Constructive advice only please.

the_syco

123tracey123 wrote: »

Ok, we didnt pay the rent in for december because we couldnt afford it now Jans is due. ... we told our letting agent today as he texted us about Jans paymnt we advised him that we couldnt afford it any longer & we are moving out and will be out by nxt friday (15th) ... I will come home from work ... my husband has a few days work !!!

So... you work, your husband has got some work... and you telling the agent that you have no money? Good riddance to you. I wish the landlord well.

Victor

the_syco wrote: »

So... you work, your husband has got some work... and you telling the agent that you have no money? Good riddance to you. I wish the landlord well.

In fairness, we don't know all the circumstances. The OP has indicated that her husband is under-employed.

echosound

Legally he can't just change the locks, you need to have gotten the notice in writing, but TBH the first thing you should be paying out every month from whatever income you have is your rent, not the last thing after all other expenses.

Even if you could have given a part payment you might have kept the agent onside and he might have been more amenable to giving you time to come up with the rest of what you owe.
As it stands, I would be looking to move out to your mother's house ASAP, not on the 15th, to let the agent get on with trying to re-let the house and get paying tenants in, as they've lost out on 2 full month's rent, through no fault of their own.

Have someone be in the house tomorrow in case he comes round, and explain that you will be moving out this weekend, I am sure he will allow you a few days to get out of the house then.

Sorry to hear you are in difficulties, best of luck with your move.

D3PO

123tracey123 wrote: »

Ok, we didnt pay the rent in for december because we couldnt afford it now Jans is due. We (me my husband and 3 yr old son) have decided we need to move out. we told our letting agent today as he texted us about Jans paymnt we advised him that we couldnt afford it any longer & we are moving out and will be out by nxt friday (15th) he is now advising if we dont pay the rent tomoro he will be around with a lock smith tomorrow at lunch (we already advised him we would be at work) !!!

ok so you havent paid rent owe him 2 months cash and are working but you come on here wanting to know where you stand.

your a leech and I for one wont give you any information to your rights because it seems to me all your trying to do is screw over your landlord.

D3PO

D3PO wrote: »

because it seems to me all your trying to do is screw over your landlord.

+ 1

CantGetNoSleep

i haven't even got money to go out on the piss anymore cos fianna fail expect me to spend it on rent and stupid things like that. It's a disgrace.


*posted from my iphone

axel rose

I never knew people who live under bridges had landlords, agents and lockable doors .

On the off chance that you are genuine-Canel the internet and pay your bills.

astrofool

I'd wonder, given the protracted length that dispute takes with the PRTB, would it end up being cheaper for a landlord to illegally evict (change the locks) and go through proceedings, rather than wait months and months, not receiving rent, to go through a legal eviction.

Remembering that the court case may go in the landlord's favour anyway, or the fine may only amount to a few months missed rent.

the_syco

astrofool wrote: »

I'd wonder, given the protracted length that dispute takes with the PRTB, would it end up being cheaper for a landlord to illegally evict (change the locks) and go through proceedings, rather than wait months and months, not receiving rent, to go through a legal eviction.

Remembering that the court case may go in the landlord's favour anyway, or the fine may only amount to a few months missed rent.

I'd say it'll be going that way fairly soon. I'd also wonder what would happen if the landlord said that they would only be able to pay the courts fine at €200 a month, due to tenants not paying him their rent money?

astrofool

astrofool wrote: »

I'd wonder, given the protracted length that dispute takes with the PRTB, would it end up being cheaper for a landlord to illegally evict (change the locks) and go through proceedings, rather than wait months and months, not receiving rent, to go through a legal eviction.

Remembering that the court case may go in the landlord's favour anyway, or the fine may only amount to a few months missed rent.

Defo is. Someone decides not to pay their rent, stays put. Landlord raises matter with PRTB. After 12 months case is heard, tenant told to get out and pay the arrears, tenant claims they don't have the arrears, bla bla bka.

No win for the landlord really, get them out and change the locks is the only way. The letting agent here should be commended for handling it like this.

odds_on

No win for the landlord really, get them out and change the locks is the only way. The letting agent here should be commended for handling it like this.

And risk a fine and damages of 10,000 euros or more.
Letting agent is absolutely out of order - he must follow the prescribed laws.

Agreed the LL is the loser here.
Why do many tenants consider that rent is the last expense to be paid?

BostonB

odds_on wrote: »

And risk a fine and damages of 10,000 euros or more.
Letting agent is absolutely out of order - he must follow the prescribed laws.

Agreed the LL is the loser here.
Why do many tenants consider that rent is the last expense to be paid?

The reality is its still might be cheaper to change the locks. LL pays 10~12k in fines/comp etc., but LL can offset rent from new tenant from this. Which might be the bulk of it. Wait 12 months (maybe longer) for the PRTB and LL most likely will still pay court costs, and the tenant still might not move. How long before would it take sheriff? after all that? Then they'll disappear and LL gets nothing from them. The PRTB is broken. They should get tenants to pay the PRTB fees because the LL gets nothing out of it.

That said if the tenant moves outs in 2 months, with no damage, thats a good outcome. But they've no way of knowing this isn't another delaying tactic. Times are tough, I can appreciate that for tenants too.

Fol20

goat2 wrote: »

you can always stay and draw it out, saying you cannot afford rent but offer less money per month, by doing this, you would be able to stay on until he takes you to court which could be up to a year of tooing and froing, once you make an offer the ball is in your court, but by not even trying to pay, give off bad vibes, and make him angrier
.............................................................you say your friend is minding your child tomorrow while you are away, well if he does try to throw them out he is in deep trouble, connot trow a child out on pavement , if he has any sense he will not even try

I hate people like this that feel self entitled even though their not paying up..I would be ashamed at your attitude to the whole thing.You knew what you were getting yourself into when you singed the contract so live up to it,or move!
So what if they have a child,if you cant afford it,move out and find a smaller place.thats not the LL fault.

goat2

Victor wrote: »

Constructive advice only please.

constructive advice would be,..................... pay your bills....... you both work, have what you need and not what you want, that way your wages will go further

Raskolnikov

Kimia wrote: »

But Tracy, you're not paying your rent. Of course he's entitled to evict you. Following legal protocol of course.

:rolleyes:

If the tenant is not paying rent, the 2004 Private Residential Tenancies Act still requires that a tenant is served with an eviction notice. If the landlord enters your house without your permission, locks you out by changing the locks, then he is liable for costs that you will incurr from the eviction.

What you need to do is to not fight this eviction. If he does what he is propsing, then the law is on your side and you can claim all the expenses. The PRTB lists hundreds of cases where landlords have illegally evicted tenants and have been forced to hand over thousands of Euro in costs to tenants - http://public.prtb.ie/disputes.htm

Your landlord is a bully, and is acting criminally. Do not let him walk over you!

gaeilgegrinds1

He can't change the locks but he can most definately pursue ye for the money.

Shelflife

PRTB are a joke of an organisation. It took them three months to lodge a chq that i sent them in early Oct. ffs how hard is it to open a letter and lodge a chq?

I cant see how the landlord is a bully as the op is in breach of the lease from the day that the op missed a payment.

Total joke that someone expects help when they are screwing over an innocent party.

BostonB

Some of those determinations are interesting. In some cases the landlord is owed tens of thousands of pounds.

reprazant

Raskolnikov wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Your landlord is a bully, and is acting criminally. Do not let him walk over you!

She has not paid her last rent and has no intention of paying this months rent.

She is acting criminally.

Raskolnikov

reprazant wrote: »

She has not paid her last rent and has no intention of paying this months rent.

She is acting criminally.

Where has she said that she never intends to pay back the arrears? While she currently can't pay the arrears, I am sure that she would be willing to leave the property with a proper period of notice and a reasonable installment plan to clear the arrears. That is not unreasonable in this situation and would be a typical judgment that a landlord would pass down in the courts.

BostonB

Raskolnikov wrote: »

Where has she said that she never intends to pay back the arrears? While she currently can't pay the arrears, I am sure that she would be willing to leave the property with a proper period of notice and a reasonable installment plan to clear the arrears. That is not unreasonable in this situation and would be a typical judgment that a landlord would pass down in the courts.

I assume theres a typo in that as a LL doesn't pass judgements. I assume you meant would be passed.

Have you any data that indicated most tenants in arrears pay them.

How is non payment enforced. Have you data on that?

Raskolnikov

BostonB wrote: »

I assume theres a typo in that as a LL doesn't pass judgements. I assume you meant would be passed.

Have you any data that indicated most tenants in arrears pay them.

How is non payment enforced. Have you data on that?

I am only going by the court reports that I read on the Indo on Tuesday's. I would imagine that if a tenant in arrears fails to abide by a court ordered repayment, then they would face prosecution, and/or jail time.

OS119

reprazant wrote: »

She has not paid her last rent and has no intention of paying this months rent.

She is acting criminally.

she is not acting criminally, she is acting badly - and while she may well have frivolous expenses, few people will go hungry in order to pay rent/mortage.

there is a well publicised structure of laws governing the rental sector, and anyone thinking of establishing a business in the sector needs to understand them before deciding to go ahead. if the LL didn't like the look of those laws they should not have entered the sector and placed their investment elsewhere - if they didn't bother doing any kind of research into the sector or the normal due dilligence before investing, then they deserve everything they get.

if you set up an aircraft maintainence company without knowing the legislation surrounding the licences, qualifications and procedures required to complete aircraft maintainence, or set up a firearms importation company without having the faintest understanding of the law surrounding such matters, then people would laugh at you in the street for being potentially the most stupid person ever to breathe air - personally, as a LL myself, i feel no differently towards LL's who believe that owning a rental property is a licence to print money with no requirements other than to pay their mortgage and buy them a BMW M5.

it isn't, the sector has a number of well publicised, very deep pitfalls and a legal structure that can easily cost a LL a huge amount of money and hassle - if you don't like the risks, go elsewhere. if you think they don't apply to you, unlucky.

BostonB

Raskolnikov wrote: »

I am only going by the court reports that I read on the Indo on Tuesday's. I would imagine that if a tenant in arrears fails to abide by a court ordered repayment, then they would face prosecution, and/or jail time.

If you made it up, it would be more likely to be accurate than the indo. So basically we have no information if any of the process works because we have no credible information about who (LL or tenant) got their money or not.

Raskolnikov

BostonB wrote: »

If you made it up, it would be more likely to be accurate than the indo. So basically we have no information if any of the process works because we have no credible information about who (LL or tenant) got their money or not.

Bank records and witnesses?

All I am saying is that people should at least try to come to an arrangement before going to the courts as the only winner in that circumstance will be the legal profession.

D3PO

OS119 wrote: »

.

there is a well publicised structure of laws governing the rental sector, and anyone thinking of establishing a business in the sector needs to understand them before deciding to go ahead. .

I stopped reading after this. There is a well publicised lack of proper legislation governing the rental sector both from a tennant & landlords perspective.

As for landlords knowing and understanding the current situation before deciding to go ahead. If anybody was to look and act on the basis of the laws there would be zero landlords in this country.

Because the fact of the matter is the tennant can play the system in regards to eviction. In theory you could have tennant after tennant never pay you rent. Anybody knowing the laws should in theory never rent because of the possible pitfalls.

So intimating that a knowledge of the laws makes for a better landlord and thats more or less what your trying to say is quite frankly Bullcrap.

OS119

D3PO wrote: »

So intimating that a knowledge of the laws makes for a better landlord and thats more or less what your trying to say is quite frankly Bullcrap.

whining like a smacked toddler. if you don't like the rules don't play.

if you can't be bothered to learn the rules before you play - and then make an informed decision about whether you want to play - then you're an idiot who deserves to be ripped off at every turn.

LifesgoodwithLG

Raskolnikov wrote: »

Where has she said that she never intends to pay back the arrears? While she currently can't pay the arrears, I am sure that she would be willing to leave the property with a proper period of notice and a reasonable installment plan to clear the arrears. That is not unreasonable in this situation and would be a typical judgment that a landlord would pass down in the courts.

C'mon what do you honestly think that the chances are of the OP paying back the monies in arrears ? Really can't see it happening. The Landlord still has to pay their mortgage in a timely manner however the OP will pay them back in whatever time they deem fit ??? At best it is optimistic to say that they will pay their new landlord. I am a tenant as opposed to a LL however the LL seems to be the only one thats getting shafted in this instance

BostonB

Raskolnikov wrote: »

Bank records and witnesses?

All I am saying is that people should at least try to come to an arrangement before going to the courts as the only winner in that circumstance will be the legal profession.

And we don't have access to that information. So like I said we have no idea if the process works in terms of getting your (tenant or landlord) money back.

OS119 wrote: »

whining like a smacked toddler. if you don't like the rules don't play.

if you can't be bothered to learn the rules before you play - and then make an informed decision about whether you want to play - then you're an idiot who deserves to be ripped off at every turn.

You can't make an informed decision. We have no idea how long the process takes, or do people get their money back at the end. PRTB could follow judgements up and see what happened then publish some stats.

athtrasna

Has the OP been scared off? Didn't get the response they were expecting is my guess, only two posts on boards and both on page 1 of the thread.

OS119

BostonB wrote: »

And we don't have access to that information. So like I said we have no idea if the process works in terms of getting your (tenant or landlord) money back...

...You can't make an informed decision. We have no idea how long the process takes, or do people get their money back at the end. PRTB could follow judgements up and see what happened then publish some stats.

actually you can make an informed decision - the law/PRTB guidence is very clear about the circumstances in which, and the procedure for, evicting a tenant, its also very clear what a tenants rights are, and if you speak to people in your social/work circle - which will almost certainly contain both LL's and tenants - you'd be hard pushed to find any examples in which a LL has successfully persued a former tenant for monies owed.

tenants face no real sanctions almost regardless of what they do or do not do, LL's must stay well within the letter of the law in order to get any of their already limited rights safeguarded by the law, and even if at the end of a horribly convoluted, expensive and drawn out legal procedure the LL does manage to evict a problem tenant he stands almost no chance of getting damages or rent arrears out of them however resloutely he pursues them, or attempts to pursue them, through the civil courts.

those are the realities of life for a LL. if you can deal with that commercial reality, and operate the property/finance market to your advantage, then there is money to be made - but if you don't like those odds you shouldn't play.

BostonB

You've obviously not read the decisions of the PRTB on their website. The costs of doing illegal eviction is often far less expensive than than operating within the rules as you suggest. Being fined 2~12k is a nothing to losing 20~30k in rent + what ever damages and add to that the legal costs. Thats just from what I've read on the PRTB site. Losing that kinda money could mean the LL is running at loss for a few years to recoup that. Thats assuming they don't have a mortgage. Again you and I , and everyone else is assuming that a few people you know is representative of the wider market. Because theres no stats to prove otherwise. Assumption is not being informed.

delllat

BostonB wrote: »

And we don't have access to that information. So like I said we have no idea if the process works in terms of getting your (tenant or landlord) money back.




You can't make an informed decision. We have no idea how long the process takes, or do people get their money back at the end. PRTB could follow judgements up and see what happened then publish some stats.

in general if someone has no assetts its the blood out of a stone thing all over again,if its a tenant on benefits all they have to say is theyre broke and cant pay

i doubt the majority of backdated owed rent ever gets paid after a tenant is evicted whether tenants are on benefits or not

BostonB

I agree with you. But I've no stats to back that up.

delllat

BostonB wrote: »

I agree with you. But I've no stats to back that up.

its up to lanlords to choose tenants carefully ,get references,hefty deposit and 1 if not 2 months rent in advance

i think its madness that landlords are giving the keys to young unemployed people without deposits or rent on the promise of a backdated R.A cheque a few months down the line

the system is wide open to abuse at the best of times ,i would leave a property empty before id give it away to someone who was a high risk candidate and also had no money