New White Elephants on the M4

Dempo1

Not sure if this issue has been covered but i wondered have any motorists used or experienced these new space age service stations on the M4.

I have experienced them twice in the past month, one on each side and what a complete shambles. Fair enough both occasions were around 10.30pm on Journeys to the airport. From a distance they look appealing with lots of services on offer, this is of course until you drive up to the forecourts.

Accepting its late enough with some service limitations i had not expected ZERO service. Myself and other drivers were left bemused by what can only be described as abandonment. Going from Pump to pump with nothing happening, i along with other customers ventured up to the Kiosk (Shops and all other services closed up? WTF 10pm i thought. We were greeted by what could best be described as a donkey behind the glass who decided to inform us it was pre pay, this news would of course be helpful if it was signposted or if this Donkey could have informed customers over a loudspeaker or something, I for one tried our pumps before giving up.

I decided to ask for some additional items, all of which were not in stock. I began to wonder what the **** was the purpose of these motorway stations. Jesus even the burger king, shops, car wash and other various services were all locked up. For anyone who has not yet seen these stations they are enormous. (One reason these stations were permitted to be built was to offer motorists service area's)

I learned over the Christmas there was major protests at these filling stations by sub contractors who built these stations and were not paid, indeed some tried to remove fixtures and fittings and since then one of the main shareholders of this enterprise has gone into liquidation.

So apart from the appalling service and horrendous fuel prices i now avoid these places like the plague. I rarely see anyone using them.

I guess the question is

Are these more Celtic tiger white elephants!

SeanW

It's too bad you didn't have an "in between" option.

The couple of times I've used the service stations, they usually been acceptable. The first time (not long after it opened) the Burger King was out of action because of a power failure to their grills. Fair enough, it was new at the time and these things happen.

But I noticed that their "BK Time" is 11AM-11PM - hardly suitable for a Motorway rest area, and I found the level of services available at night to be somewhat unsatisfactory.

These days though I normally dodge the toll and get fuel in Enfield town if needed.

Oliver1985

Its spelled Good not Goood:pac:

Dempo1

SeanW wrote: »

It's too bad you didn't have an "in between" option.

The couple of times I've used the service stations, they usually been acceptable. The first time (not long after it opened) the Burger King was out of action because of a power failure to their grills. Fair enough, it was new at the time and these things happen.

But I noticed that their "BK Time" is 11AM-11PM - hardly suitable for a Motorway rest area, and I found the level of services available at night to be somewhat unsatisfactory.

These days though I normally dodge the toll and get fuel in Enfield town if needed.

Good point re BK opening times, I was led to believe these service stations were going to be opened 24hrs with services to match. The NRA fell over themselves with excitement about this venues opening. I get a real sense there not going to survive.

n97 mini

Dempo1 wrote: »

Are these more Celtic tiger white elephants!

Your alternative is to leave the M4 (and pay the toll to get back on it) in search of whatever it is you're after. This was the way the FF backbenchers wanted it, and had it for so long.

Motorway Services are like services in a housing development. If you don't build the services people have to travel further for stuff and it leads to a generally poor experience.

I've been in all the new Motorway Services, and have found them to be reasonably good. Staff we friendly but the shop is over-priced. While the petrol price was average some of the pumps seemed to be giving trouble.

Though I do wish we had more of them and a bit of competition between them, like in the UK.

I travelled Dublin to Cork and back last weekend, and was amazed that the road has two lovely toll plazas and no services. Welcome to Ireland!

n97 mini

SeanW wrote: »

These days though I normally dodge the toll and get fuel in Enfield town if needed.

It'd be cheaper to pay the toll and buy your petrol elsewhere!

Run_to_da_hills

Once these places have either a Burger King or a McDonald's I'm happy.

Apart from that if their fuel is generally higher I will fill up before I hit the road.

Dempo1

n97 mini wrote: »

Your alternative is to leave the M4 (and pay the toll to get back on it) in search of whatever it is you're after. This was the way the FF backbenchers wanted it, and had it for so long.

I am not offering any alternative, I just wanted to know why after all the hype and indeed what was promised how the operators seem to be getting it so wrong.

Cookie_Monster

n97 mini wrote: »

Your alternative is to leave the M4 (and pay the toll to get back on it) in search of whatever it is you're after. This was the way the FF backbenchers wanted it, and had it for so long.

you alternative is not to bother stopping at all. The distances between cities over here is generally not big enough to bother anyway.

trellheim

That is hardly a motorway service area is it if the doors are locked and its prepay, its just a petrol station through a hatch. Many a time in the UK I've pulled into a service station at weird hours for the loo and a coffee, and a break from the road.

listermint

RE - Prices

I found that the service station was cheaper (by far) than any of my usual dublin haunts when i travalled to Antrim.
Albeit this was pre budget. What sort of pricing are they running now?

If anyone says 140.9... That is fecking cheap compared to the shambles that is exhibited over most of dublin.

ThisRegard

I've used them several times, as well as the northbound M1 and have found them great. Never had an issue with them, bar BK being a bit slow first time around but that was opening day and acceptable. Last time was Christmas eve and the M4 westbound was completely packed, car park was practically full. Diesel prices are reasonable too as Listermint points out, nowhere near as expensive as I initially expected.

Dempo1

listermint wrote: »

RE - Prices

I found that the service station was cheaper (by far) than any of my usual dublin haunts when i travalled to Antrim.
Albeit this was pre budget. What sort of pricing are they running now?

If anyone says 140.9... That is fecking cheap compared to the shambles that is exhibited over most of dublin.

Yep was shocked to see €1.44.99 At the airport filling station this morning, why don't these ****ers just round it off at €1.45

€1.39 in tullamore this morning thank god i filled up before leaving!

Cookie_Monster

Dempo1 wrote: »

Yep was shocked to see €1.44.99 At the airport filling station this morning, why don't these ****ers just round it off at €1.45

marketing, people see 1.44 and not 1.45 and think its cheaper

Dempo1

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

marketing, people see 1.44 and not 1.45 and think its cheaper

Cookie_Monster

Dempo1 wrote: »

1.44.9 is in reality as close to 1.45 as make no difference but you'll still register it as 1.44.

Same reason things in shops are 1.99 instead of 2 euro, gives you the impression that they are cheaper than they are as you register the 1 first rather than a 2

n97 mini

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

you alternative is not to bother stopping at all.

Well if the petrol tank is empty or the wiz tank is full you are better off not trying to wing it till you get home.

But this is a democracy and people are of course entitled to not use the new services.

The distances between cities over here is generally not big enough to bother anyway.

Cork-Dublin is quite a distance, and many people would welcome a break.

n97 mini

Dempo1 wrote: »

I am not offering any alternative, I just wanted to know why after all the hype and indeed what was promised how the operators seem to be getting it so wrong.

I really don't think they're getting it wrong. IMHO they're getting it mostly right.

Dempo1

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

1.44.9 is in reality as close to 1.45 as make no difference but you'll still register it as 1.44.

Same reason things in shops are 1.99 instead of 2 euro, gives you the impression that they are cheaper than they are as you register the 1 first rather than a 2

I'm taking the piss! of course i understand the strategy it just galls me!

Happy new year!:D

oharach

Dempo1 wrote: »

We were greeted by what could best be described as a donkey behind the glass who decided to inform us it was pre pay, this news would of course be helpful if it was signposted or if this Donkey could have informed customers over a loudspeaker or something, I for one tried our pumps before giving up.

'Donkey' is offensive. Loudspeakers, signs and stock ordering are all things that are matters for the management.

Don't blame the person who will be there all night on minimum wage.

n97 mini

oharach wrote: »

'Donkey' is offensive. Loudspeakers, signs and stock ordering are all things that are matters for the management.

Don't blame the person who will be there all night on minimum wage.

I think the phrase originated in Tullamore

Dempo1

oharach wrote: »

'Donkey' is offensive. Loudspeakers, signs and stock ordering are all things that are matters for the management.

Don't blame the person who will be there all night on minimum wage.

OK let me re phrase, he was a complete Spoon! who's customer skills were Zero. This chap clearly saw a number of customers in difficulty trying to ascertain why no pumps were working, he was looking straight out at us. As for management, i some how doubt same would be found available at 10.30pm.

Even the most basic 24hr service station has loudspeakers installed to assist motorist or facilitate advising them the pumps are pre pay!

Another thing i also forgot to mention, the pumps at these stations all have credit card payment options, one would think such a system would permit the customer to prepay at the pump but again even this facility was not working!
As explained, these new service stations were promoted with a blaze of publicity prior to opening, gosh the motoring public were all excited about how their lives would be transformed. A complete load of bollox with everything shut up at 11pm.

Del2005

n97 mini wrote: »

Your alternative is to leave the M4 (and pay the toll to get back on it) in search of whatever it is you're after. This was the way the FF backbenchers wanted it, and had it for so long.

If you know you are exiting you can get a token to let you back on from the toll booth when you pay.

Dempo1 wrote: »

Even the most basic 24hr service station has loudspeakers installed to assist motorist or facilitate advising them the pumps are pre pay!

Any time I've been in a station when they use the speakers I've had to go upto the window as they are generally all useless. Can never understand a word they say.

ardmacha

I previously posted about this prepay thing in relation to the M1 service stations. It says a lot that a new initiative is allowed have such poor standards of public service right from the beginning. There was a chance to have proper standards set, but the NRA clearly don't care.

Dempo1

ardmacha wrote: »

I previously posted about this prepay thing in relation to the M1 service stations. It says a lot that a new initiative is allowed have such poor standards of public service right from the beginning. There was a chance to have proper standards set, but the NRA clearly don't care.

Yes this is pretty much my feeling on these new public service stations, one would of thought such and investment (albeit apparently not paid for based on the sub contractor protests) would have meant the operators would be making an effort to service motorists needs. I can not see the point of such facilities locking down at 11pm or it seems when suits.

At the rate there going, i can not see these service stations lasting, drove by yesterday early and late morning, not a sign of any movement!

-Corkie-

Are the toilet and shower facilities open at night. If not there a waste of time. Can you go in and make a cup of coffee after 11pm??

Dempo1

-Corkie- wrote: »

Are the toilet and shower facilities open at night. If not there a waste of time. Can you go in and make a cup of coffee after 11pm??

Given my experiences of barely being able to petrol, i pretty much doubt it's possible to make or even get a coffee after 11pm, these places are pretty much shut up by then. As for showering facilities, the operators promoted special services for truckers etc but i am not sure if such facilities are in fact available. Would be interesting to hear from any haulers who have used these stations!

n97 mini

Dempo1 wrote: »

At the rate there going, i can not see these service stations lasting, drove by yesterday early and late morning, not a sign of any movement!

If the uptake is slow at certain hours I'm sure the opening times will be adjusted to reflect demand.

Carawaystick

n97 mini wrote: »

If the uptake is slow at certain hours I'm sure the opening times will be adjusted to reflect demand.

These service areas were built at great expense on the taxpayer. I'd expect proper service levels regardless of ``uptake''

The service are on the M1 at Ballough replicates the privately built and financed service area at the Courtlough junction 2 whole km away

I mean we're gonna pay the operators of the M3 a load of money to operate it as the toll revenue is gonna fall short. Should they be allowed close the M3 if the ``uptake'' is low too?

Del2005

n97 mini wrote: »

If the uptake is slow at certain hours I'm sure the opening times will be adjusted to reflect demand.

Motorway services shouldn't be demand driven.

There are serious safety issues on our motorway network with no safe place for drivers, both commercial and private, to stop and if the place where they expect to stop and rest safely is shut that's not on.

The should have the pumps, toilets and some type of refreshments open 24hrs.

n97 mini

Carawaystick wrote: »

These service areas were built at great expense on the taxpayer. I'd expect proper service levels regardless of ``uptake''

Even if it involves more expense on the taxpayer?

If they are ever to make a return to the exchequer then they will need to curtail services when the demand dictates.

Dempo1

n97 mini wrote: »

Even if it involves more expense on the taxpayer?

If they are ever to make a return to the exchequer then they will need to curtail services when the demand dictates.

As far as i am aware these alledged service stations were built under PPP which seems to be part of the problem, not helped by the fact one of the consortium (Pierse) has gone into recievership within a month of these stations opening and of course before paying any of the sub contractors.

L1011

-Corkie- wrote: »

Are the toilet and shower facilities open at night. If not there a waste of time. Can you go in and make a cup of coffee after 11pm??

There are 'other' toilets open round the back, not the rest of the stuff.

This country does not yet have enough long distance road travel (and its arguable that it will ever, due to the size) so they'd lose significant amounts of money if they stayed fully open overnight.

The only service stations that stay *fully* open with deli services etc are either on roads with 70-80,000 AADT (Texaco Foxhunter) or with significant local traffic (erm, Texaco Foxhunter again; there are others too).

If we start getting significant numbers of truckers working the M1/M4 etc in the wee small hours, except Superstop to open for them. Similarly any future services, and the private ones popping up very close to junctions - M8 Cashel u/c, M8 Fermoy, etc.

We never had these services on the old roads and the new ones aren't bedded in enough in to culture/pscyhe/business world yet to have the kind of 24hr traffic the UK, with its 50 year old motorway network, does.

ardmacha

There are two issues here. Firstly the design of the station and the inclusion in the design of a mode for restricted operations. Secondly, the hours at which there are restricted operations. I think these new custom designed stations could have been properly designed so that a small seating area indoors could remain open with coffee and some food items. This could be achieved by including a security screen, if one is perceived to be needed. Petrol operations could continue by having a barrier to close off some of the pumps. Basically some imagination, rather than having the customer roll up to a station where everything appears closed, where the pumps tell you to pay afterwards but don't work and where the dimly hit hatch where you have to pay is entirtely out of view from most of the pumps.

There is no reason whatsoever why these stations could not have included a restricted mode in their design. Presently they are entirely laid out for full operations and customers arriving in later hours are treated with contempt.

Dempo1

ardmacha wrote: »

There are two issues here. Firstly the design of the station and the inclusion in the design of a mode for restricted operations. Secondly, the hours at which there are restricted operations. I think these new custom designed stations could have been properly designed so that a small seating area indoors could remain open with coffee and some food items. This could be achieved by including a security screen, if one is perceived to be needed. Petrol operations could continue by having a barrier to close off some of the pumps. Basically some imagination, rather than having the customer roll up to a station where everything appears closed, where the pumps tell you to pay afterwards but don't work and where the dimly hit hatch where you have to pay is entirtely out of view from most of the pumps.

There is no reason whatsoever why these stations could not have included a restricted mode in their design. Presently they are entirely laid out for full operations and customers arriving in later hours are treated with contempt.

Could not agree more, it seems bizarre that such expense was laid out planning and building these stations with no consideration or 24 service. In addition i would not be recommending any lady drivers alone venturing into these stations at night.

n97 mini

Dempo1 wrote: »

As far as i am aware these alledged service stations were built under PPP

I thought they were built using public money? They are operated by private contractors, which is where the PPP bit comes in.

Dempo1

n97 mini wrote: »

I thought they were built using public money? They are operated by private contractors, which is where the PPP bit comes in.

I am not entirely sure to be honest, I think the NRA had some financial involvement and where in fact the people who applied and gained the initial planning permission.

http://www.build.ie/construction_news.asp?newsid=72804

Then of course we had the ill fated super stop consortium who are responsible for this debacle not helped of course by those **** in Pierse who neglected to pay the subcontractors:mad:

http://superstop.ie/