"Second Big 4" of thrash

eviltimeban

Apologies if this has been endlessly debated before.

So we all know Metallica / Megadeth / Slayer / Anthrax are the "Big 4" of thrash, but has there ever been definitive confirmation on who the next 4 were, to make a "Big 8" list overall?

If I had to guess I'd say it would be Sepultura, Testament, and then... I'm not sure. Kreator? Celtic Frost? Nuclear Assault?

What's your opinion?

That_Guy

Personally I'd take Slayer out and put Testament in there but that's just me.

Nea

I would agree with Testament and Sepultura, I would put in Sacred Reich and Suicidal Tendencies also.

Was never a big fan but many would put Exodus in too

Max Power1

Second Big 4?

Kreator, Testament & Exodus anyway, not sure after that. Sepultura probably going by popularity, even though they are a band I never really "got".

Angron

That_Guy wrote: »

Personally I'd take Slayer out and put Testament in there but that's just me.

I'd take out Metallica and replace them with Sepultura myself.

Max Power1

Also, Celtic Frost? Are they not more of a "doom" band than thrash?

Motley Crue

For me, Anthrax doesn't even deserve to be in the main Big Four, let alone be called a Thrash band....in any case...my pick for a "B Team" would be

Sepultura
None of this **** over Max vs. Derrick, Sepultura now are a great band, but I would prefer the original line up that performed in Holland in 1996 - you have to admire how stoned the fans looked during this performance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3514lddu6m0

Exodus
A few years ago Slayer took time out from their tour to go and see Exodus performing in the Voodoo Lounge - that's how relevant Slayer think Exodus are - and personally I have to agree

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bN78B1wigCE

Testament
Seen them open for Judas Priest in 2009 and have been a fan ever since.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09rHDabBQfA

Machine Head
I have a feeling I'll get in trouble for calling these guys Thrash but they've been around in some form or another since 1994 (Demmel and Flynn have been working together even longer then that) and their debut album was without doubt the driving force behind my decision to listen to more of Thrash Metal. I just wish Rob would stop with the bull**** inbetween songs.

And to see them five times and counting. And no, this particular track I've chosen isn't the heaviest, but it's still brilliant music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh1DQR7H2KE

sentient_6

2nd big four? Exodus, Testament, Kreator & IMO Overkill. Who i'm surprised haven't been mentioned yet!

The problem with some of the '2nd tier' bands is some have had dodgy points and/or huge gaps between albums. Exodus had the terrible Impact is Imminent & Force of Habit then nothing for years. Heathen had a great album in Victims of Deception but then nothing for years. Forbidden had Twisted into Form then a couple of dodgy albums in the mid 90's that changed the sound a bit then a huge gap. Overkill, Kreator & Testament are the only consistant ones out there.

bledmillennium

Yes! Overkill!

ELIMINATE ELIMINATE!!!!!

Also, from the new breed of thrash metallers, I see great potential from Warbringer and Tankard making even greater waves in the future.

eviltimeban

Hmmm. I don't know much Exodus. Kreator I always figured would be on the list.

What about Flotsam & Jetsam? Destruction? Sodom?

Hmmm. It looks like the list will probably be:

Sepultura
Testament
Exodus
Kreator

Max Power1

eviltimeban wrote: »

Hmmm. It looks like the list will probably be:

Sepultura
Testament
Exodus
Kreator

Yup, +1 to that IMO.

eviltimeban

Max Power1 wrote: »

Yup, +1 to that IMO.

Hardly household names though. The "Big 4" have very strong name recognition, even amongst non-metal fans. I mean, everyone's heard of Metallica! :-)

sentient_6

bledmillennium wrote: »

Yes! Overkill!

ELIMINATE ELIMINATE!!!!!

Also, from the new breed of thrash metallers, I see great potential from Warbringer and Tankard making even greater waves in the future.

I'm really liking Lazarus A.D. as well. Id say check them out if you haven't already.

eviltimeban wrote: »

Hardly household names though. The "Big 4" have very strong name recognition, even amongst non-metal fans. I mean, everyone's heard of Metallica! :-)

Ya but thrash in general isn't really a household genre. & are metallica really thrash anymore?! But i digress......

Oh i think Death Angel deserve a honourable mention by the way.

Max Power1

eviltimeban wrote: »

Hardly household names though. The "Big 4" have very strong name recognition, even amongst non-metal fans. I mean, everyone's heard of Metallica! :-)

The "metallica" everyone has heard of are not thrash!


And the list is the next most well known thrash bands outside the big 4.

Wheres your suggestion, if you disagree then?

AaronEnnis

bledmillennium wrote: »

Yes! Overkill!

ELIMINATE ELIMINATE!!!!!

Also, from the new breed of thrash metallers, I see great potential from Warbringer and Tankard making even greater waves in the future.

Eh...Tankard arent exactly a new breed, they've been around since 'Zombie Attack' in 1986, and before that even.

All that 'thrash revival' did was unleash a whole load of clone bands who went out and bought hi-tops in their local Footlocker or whatever. The only good band to come out of them was Vektor, who sound like a mix between Destruction, Coroner, and Voivod.

eviltimeban

Max Power1 wrote: »

The "metallica" everyone has heard of are not thrash!


And the list is the next most well known thrash bands outside the big 4.

Wheres your suggestion, if you disagree then?

Well that was my suggestion (T/K/E/S), based on what people are saying here, and what my own thoughts are. I was just making an observation that the "2nd 4" are very different in terms of recognition / commerciality etc, than the Big 4. There's probably no real basis for a next four, maybe its more like a Big 5 or Big 6 (for which I would add Testament and Sepultura to the original Big 4).

I haven't really listened to thrash metal much since about 1989 - recently I've been delving back in to the old classics. I also got Testament's most recent album and its really good. Nice to hear the old "classic" sound is still there.

sentient_6

See even out of the Big 4 one is only really really BIG. Every other band thats sticking to the thrash sound are still playing clubs like the ambassabor when they come to ireland, & playing similar i imagine elsewhere. There all pretty much underground par metallica, who arent thrash anymore.

eviltimeban

sentient_6 wrote: »

See even out of the Big 4 one is only really really BIG. Every other band thats sticking to the thrash sound are still playing clubs like the ambassabor when they come to ireland, & playing similar i imagine elsewhere. There all pretty much underground par metallica, who arent thrash anymore.

Well I guess now that's true, but maybe it refers to "big then" rather than "big now". I mean, Megadeth had a run of hit albums in the 90s, Anthrax kind of fell off the radar, and Slayer were always too extreme to go overground. But at the time, the late 80s, these were the main big bands.

eviltimeban

sentient_6 wrote: »

See even out of the Big 4 one is only really really BIG. Every other band thats sticking to the thrash sound are still playing clubs like the ambassabor when they come to ireland, & playing similar i imagine elsewhere. There all pretty much underground par metallica, who arent thrash anymore.

Well I guess now that's true, but maybe it refers to "big then" rather than "big now". I mean, Megadeth had a run of hit albums in the 90s, Anthrax kind of fell off the radar, and Slayer were always too extreme to go overground. But at the time, the late 80s, these were the main big bands.

Motley Crue

sentient_6 wrote: »

See even out of the Big 4 one is only really really BIG. Every other band thats sticking to the thrash sound are still playing clubs like the ambassabor when they come to ireland, & playing similar i imagine elsewhere.

Anthrax aside, Megadeth performed in the old Point Depo in the early 90's twice, and I think that they could fill a venue that size with the right promotion. I remember when they performed in the Ambassador in 2005 the place was wall to wall packed, by all accounts they also got a good crowd in Cork last Summer, even if it didn't sell out.

And Slayer wouldn't want to play the 02 Arena, I mean I've seen them headline stadium\arena gigs before (like the CIA in Wales) but I would imagine, given the choice, Slayer prefer the intimacy or a "less is more" approach to their attendance. Their two night's in the Ambassador a few years ago could have easily been one in a bigger venue.

sentient_6 wrote: »

There all pretty much underground par metallica, who arent thrash anymore.

I would not class Slayer or Megadeth as underground

lord lucan

Motley Crue wrote: »

For me, Anthrax doesn't even deserve to be in the main Big Four, let alone be called a Thrash band....in any case...my pick for a "B Team" would be

Wash your mouth out with soap and water!!:eek:

Motley Crue

lord lucan wrote: »

Wash your mouth out with soap and water!!:eek:

Why is it that people keep disagreeing with everything I write on here:D

OK, look, I struggle to believe Anthrax are a Thrash band...a lot of their material since their "Thrash period" proves this was nothing more then experimentation and that their Thrash days were nothing more then a phase of the band.

I mean, no other Thrash band has ever released....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBA-xi8WuCU

Even if some of their material is well worth applauding

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlLn0UicWrM

dasdog

Anthrax were more melodical than the others but they were one of the definers of thrash and were probably the first to have moshpits/stage diving which they brought accross from CBGB'S (NY) punk/hardcore audiences. If anything with Public Enemy, Anthrax were experimenting with something new which never really worked for me but the whole scene was dying already at that point. Personally I thought Megadeth stopped being thrash around Rust In Peace (I hated No More Mr Nice Guy....hated it and I loved that band) and Metallica after AJFA.

I suppose like a lot of things it depends on taste. Suicidal/Nuclear Assault/Testament/Sepultura were probably my favourite of the "second tier". Although they started off playing more hardcore (a bit like Suicidal) an honorable mention to D.R.I. who were probably never as popular as the likes of Kreator.

That_Guy

Vio-lence are actually quite good too. Would stick them in there too although I'm really not the biggest fan of thrash as such.

Nailz

Apart from the two dudes on the first page there's a tremendous lack of Overkill on this thread. Same goes for Municipal Waste.

For me it would have to be Overkill, Testament, Sepultura and Nuclear Assault. Leaving out one of my old favourite, Suicidal Tendencies, on the basis I like their Hardcore stuff equally, and they're more of a Crossover band. Kreator & Exodus always deserve a shout.

Mike Litoris

From what I remember in the mid to late 80's Testement, Suicidal, Exodus and Nuclear Assault seemed to be the most popular after the big 4.

I alway classed Sepultra as death metal and attached to that whole wave in 89-91.

Max Power1

Mike Litoris wrote: »

From what I remember in the mid to late 80's Testement, Suicidal, Exodus and Nuclear Assault seemed to be the most popular after the big 4.

I alway classed Sepultra as death metal and attached to that whole wave in 89-91.

lol.

Its spelt Sepultura, for a start.

They were one of the main bands from the south american thrash scene. They are not death metal, in the same way that Slayer or Pantera are also not death metal.

finhex

Coroner needs to be mentioned here. Not so popular but definitely one of the best. And Finnish band called Stone.

Seth Brundle

Vio-Lence (a band I love) were never a big band and arrived too late to justify being anywhere near the top 10.

I would go with the following:
* Kreator
* Testament
* Exodus
* Suicidal Tendencies

Other bands close behind would probably be Nuclear Assault, Death Angel, Forbidden, Possessed, Sepultura and Annihilator.

Jake The Fat Ma

Razor and Exciter are two amazing bands from Canada

AaronEnnis

Jake The Fat Ma wrote: »

Razor and Exciter are two amazing bands from Canada

Spot on. Heavy Metal Maniac is just deadly. And as regards Razor...just dont get 'Decibels'. Terrible album, ha ha... everything else ranges from excellent (Evil Invaders) to good (Open Hostility).

Have you heard Sacrifice, also from Canada?

Mike Litoris

Max Power1 wrote: »

lol.

Its spelt Sepultura, for a start.

Lol, you're the best!:p

Max Power1

Mike Litoris wrote: »

Lol, you're the best!:p

:rolleyes:
So just ignore the rest of the post (the actual content, the spell czech part was obviously tongue-in-cheek)

(must resist temptation to make a pun about your username and how you responded like a c...) :P

eviltimeban

AaronEnnis wrote: »

Spot on. Heavy Metal Maniac is just deadly. And as regards Razor...just dont get 'Decibels'. Terrible album, ha ha... everything else ranges from excellent (Evil Invaders) to good (Open Hostility).

Have you heard Sacrifice, also from Canada?

I have. I had "Forward To Termination" on LP. Thought it was good, if a bit non-descript. I wouldn't have rated them higher than any of the other bands we're talking about.

Although on that note I remember getting Nuclear Assault's "Handle With Care" album and thinking it was terrible. Really boring. Felt the same about Coroner's Punishment For Decadence. I guess at that stage I was going off thrash. Within a year it were all Hendrix and Floyd round these parts.

Jake The Fat Ma

AaronEnnis wrote: »

Spot on. Heavy Metal Maniac is just deadly. And as regards Razor...just dont get 'Decibels'. Terrible album, ha ha... everything else ranges from excellent (Evil Invaders) to good (Open Hostility).

Have you heard Sacrifice, also from Canada?

Sacrifice are good but not in the same league as the other 2.

The Razor song "on the edge of a razor" has to be the best speed metal song ever

Jake The Fat Ma

found it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LA_HKObt_ys

Lawrence1895

I would like to add Sodom, Tankard and Dew Scented

PattheMetaller

Apart from the obvious as mentioned so far, I also like Annihilator, Onslaught and Artillery.

Now that "The Big 4" are gigging together regular, I'm surprised no-one has thought of a touring Thrash Festival kinda like the Sonisphere set up.

For the record, based purely on personal taste as opposed to sales etc I'd go for Testament, Flotsam & Jetsam, Overkill and Kreator.

Some other new bands worth checking out are: Hatchet, Havok and Hexen.

metzengerstein

i dont know why metalica are in the big 4 anyway they aint thrash,even there 80s stuff was very weak .anthrax id replace them


so id have slayer,overkill,megadeth,old sepultura.


2nd wave

kreator,tankard ,gothic slam ,testament



ps machine head are not thrash ,

Max Power1

metzengerstein wrote: »

i dont know why metalica are in the big 4 anyway they aint thrash,even there 80s stuff was very weak .anthrax id replace them

,

Facepalm

No metallica and in all likelihood you wouldnt have heard of most of the other bands you listed.

darconio

Mike Litoris wrote: »

I alway classed Sepultra as death metal and attached to that whole wave in 89-91.

I agree with you, in my opinion Sepultura are more DM than thrash mostly because they have the typical death growl.

Max Power1 wrote: »

They were one of the main bands from the south american thrash scene. They are not death metal, in the same way that Slayer or Pantera are also not death metal.

Yes they started as a thrash band but I wouldn't classify Morbid Visions and Bestial Devastation as "thrash".

But again is a very thin line and I guess it can be stretched to one side or to another depending on the personal taste.

Back on topic:
Definitively I would add Overkill one of the most underrated thrash band
Nuclear Assault
Defiance
Grinder

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjGp515NYCk

metzengerstein

Max Power1 wrote: »

Facepalm

No metallica and in all likelihood you wouldnt have heard of most of the other bands you listed.

did i touch a nerve :rolleyes:

why would i not have heard of them,why would i list them otherwise ,i grew up listning to all of them

Angron

metzengerstein wrote: »

did i touch a nerve :rolleyes:

why would i not have heard of them,why would i list them otherwise ,i grew up listning to all of them

To seem cool, or hip to the groove :pac:

GrizzlyMan

eviltimeban wrote: »

Apologies if this has been endlessly debated before.

So we all know Metallica / Megadeth / Slayer / Anthrax are the "Big 4" of thrash, but has there ever been definitive confirmation on who the next 4 were, to make a "Big 8" list overall?

If I had to guess I'd say it would be Sepultura, Testament, and then... I'm not sure. Kreator? Celtic Frost? Nuclear Assault?

What's your opinion?

In no particular Order: Early Sepultura, nuclear assault, Onslaught & kreator

metzengerstein

Denny M wrote: »

To seem cool, or hip to the groove :pac:

sure why would i need to do that.

being born in that era is cool enough

Max Power1

metzengerstein wrote: »

did i touch a nerve :rolleyes:

why would i not have heard of them,why would i list them otherwise ,i grew up listning to all of them

No you didnt touch a nerve.

Metallica was what/who brought thrash metal to the wider audience.

metzengerstein

Max Power1 wrote: »

No you didnt touch a nerve.

Metallica was what/who brought thrash metal to the wider audience.

for maybe a small while when they started for maybe a year then along came slayer and a few others and blew them out of it.

seachto7

Why would there even be a "second big 4"??

Seems to me there were 4 metal bands who were relatively successful at the same time, hence the "big 4". Surely the second tier could be 10 or 20?

Max Power1

metzengerstein wrote: »

for maybe a small while when they started for maybe a year then along came slayer and a few others and blew them out of it.

Slayer? Mainstream/Wide audience in the 80s? I think not.

GrizzlyMan

Max Power1 wrote: »

Slayer? Mainstream/Wide audience in the 80s? I think not.

Well Reign In blood entered the american Billboard 200 chart at 94 and considering they had absolutley no air play proves that there were a wide under ground audience and south of heaven reach somewere in the 50's.

So their was a big slayer following but obviously nowere near Metallica as and Justice entered in the top ten in the billboards charts.

AaronEnnis

You don't get on American Recordings without being a pretty huge band. End of.