The Future of Tech Help (forum is now public & renamed)

Gary ITR

Right, here we go, over the last few days t he other mods and myself have been discussing where this forum should go. The initial idea behind it being private was to stop rubbish and silly questions being asked, this was always intended as a 'how would I go about this' rather than 'this is happening, what will I tell my mechanic' kind of forum. Or also posting threads of an instructional nature.

The traffic here versus the amount of members, currently nearly 800, is tiny, in fact I would say most people who have access have never actually post in here which is somewhat disappointing.

What I have proposed is that a mod goes through the threads here and moves any they don't feel belongs here and then open it up to the public. The reason for going through the threads and leaving the ones we feel belong would be to launch it pre filled with quality rather than cluttered up with irreleven threads, so in essence they set the precedent.

What do you guys think? The idea above is just that, an idea, all your input is welcomed and expected

omb0wyn5ehpij9

Sounds like a good plan to me. This forum is far too quiet.
But there needs to be rules in place so it doesn't turn into a place that stupid questions are asked.

knifey_spoonie

Great idea, but alot of work in modding it. Would love to see more posts in here.

no1beemerfan

Bryn wrote: »

Sounds like a good plan to me. This forum is far too quiet.
But there needs to be rules in place so it doesn't turn into a place that stupid questions are asked.

Agree with this. It should be a forum where people doing something specific can ask for genuine assistance with a particular problem related to the task in hand.

It can't become a "I've this noise, leak etc. and what MIGHT it be?" forum.

It needs to be kept to a specific problem or task....ie. I'm doing this or that to my car and may need advise on doing it right.

As for making it public I don't know...I can see it becoming a pain to moderate if it is.

Gary ITR

no1beemerfan wrote: »

As for making it public I don't know...I can see it becoming a pain to moderate if it is.

Just to address this, I would say don't be worried about us mods, you should try modding the main forum for a day, moving threads to the correct forum would be a break more than anything else.

I see somebody has voted against making this forum public, it would be nice to hear the reason behind that

shamwari

Just my tuppence worth: I agree lads but the problem in the main forum is not so much stupid questions as more like stupid answers. For example, the number of posts I see where people say that their engine management light has come on, and what follows is usually a plethora of answers blaimg everything from Oxygen Sensor, EGR valve and maybe the kitchen sink or mother-in-law.

Anyone who works on faults like these (and I do regularly) knows that you have to perform a diagnostic scan using suitable equipment to troubleshoot such faults. Recommendations on probable causes like the above only serve to encourage those with the problem to consider changing parts on a "hit and hope" basis with, perhaps, very limited prospects of success. In one extreme case, I PM'd a mod where someone was suggesting the use of a plug-in device to bypass a defective airbag system seat belt sensor, which in turn quenched the warning light so that the car would pass it's NCT. The device would probably cost in the region of a proper repair, but the likely consequences of this bodge would be that the airbag would fire even if the seatbelt was not in use. Would anyone want this happening if a medically exempt person (e.g. a pregnant woman) were sat in that seat if that bag fired?

I recently had to ask a techie question of sorts regarding a Citroen C5 and I directed it purely at one member because (a) he is one of a few whom I feel he knows what he's taking about, and (b) I really didn't want responses that were peppered with little more than barstool opinionism. In the end, I got excellent answers and advice.

I am not for one minute saying that those who offer advice are always wrong or mis-intentioned, but the consequences of offering advice which can often be a blind "best guess" needs to be factored in. There is no substitute for a properly trained professional using the correct equipment examining the defect, and I feel that this needs to be the "health warning" that should be pegged to some of the advice (or even the people offering it) here.

To conclude, I feel that hiving techie questions sideways into "Tech Help" is to be welcomed, but we might need to look at who is offering the advice....;)

no1beemerfan

no1beemerfan wrote: »

As for making it public I don't know...I can see it becoming a pain to moderate if it is.

Onkle wrote: »

I see somebody has voted against making this forum public, it would be nice to hear the reason behind that

That would be me!

I was thinking of yer welfare! And also the fact would it become too much like the current motors forum?

Gary ITR

Ah don't be worried about our welfare

Atomic Pineapple

no1beemerfan wrote: »

I was thinking of yer welfare! And also the fact would it become too much like the current motors forum?

I don't use this forum much and haven't contributed anything at all but I think thats the question, if it becomes public will it become too much like a second motors?

Gary ITR

draffodx wrote: »

I don't use this forum much and haven't contributed anything at all but I think thats the question, if it becomes public will it become too much like a second motors?

The original idea of this forum really was for the DIYer to ask questions and mechanics to share knowledge, that won't change, any non-diy questions will be moved

colm_mcm

A technical help page and a general motoring page would be a good idea. not sure about subdividing it more than that.

Quazzie

The problem with going public isn't that the questions would be stupid but that the answers would be stupid.

An ideal situation would be that anyone in the trade or indeed all mechanics declare themselves as such and only these people get to reply to threads. So I come on and post this

Plan on doing brakes and discs on my Audi TT and I'm confused about the brake wear sensors. Did they come on all models? I jacked my 2000 up and don't see a wiring harness coming from the caliper. Also when i scroll through the warning display on the dash no pad wear symbol shows even though it is listed in the manual.

and then someone that knows what they are talking about and already approved to reply by the mods states

Your vehicle is equipped with brake wear indicator, front brake pads sensor only, no wear sensor for rear brake,
Wear sensors supplied with the front brake pads set and not available separately.

This way the question is asked and answered correctly and is available for searching in the future by whoever wants to read it. It makes the forum more technical but also makes it public.

I'm not sure if this is even possible but it is by far the ideal solution.

Having it public with the non relevent threads moved sounds like a good idea. At the moment there must be the guts of a 1000 folks with access anyway. Wouldn't agree with the suggestion that only mechanics or folks in the trade can reply, however the reply for the sake of replying with a stab in the dark guesstimate is obviously not what is wanted either.

As it stands at the moment the tech help forum is very quite. Of course most folks will ask on a brand specific forum and rightly so too as that's were the knowledge often is.

Slidey

I was one of the original proposers of the forum so feel that although it is quiet there has not being much misinformation.

The barstool/max power mechanics do not seem to post here.

I suppose you could make it public and a subforum of motors and see how it goes.

BrianD3

Forum can't compete with specific marque forums. For instance if I have a problem with a Renault I will look on renaultforums.co.uk and will probably find what I'm looking for without even having to start a thread on that site.

This forum also doesn't work well as a general tech forum because there is little community spirit here. The forum being set to private and the attitude that it's "not for asking silly questions like how to change a wiper blade" don't help.

How is it that the octane.ie tech forum functions nicely for general questions without having to be set to private, discouraging easy questions or suffering from mupperty. Maybe its not possible to have such a forum on a site like boards.ie

As for limiting responses to those in the motor trade - not sure about that either. In the main forum I've seen some incorrect stuff about NCT emissions failures posted by those claiming to be in the trade. Also "I'm in the trade so I know best" and other "credential stating" is a problem in the main forum. This can result in poor quality discussions, bickering, soapboxing etc.


-

Atomic Pineapple

Octane can get away with it because its not a huge site like Boards is, it doesn't attract huge visitor numbers nor does it rank as high on Google.

The problem with Boards is that it attracts someone from a Google search, they sign up and post awhile and then get bored if they don't fit into one of the sub communities and leave. A lot of this can equal a lot of poor posts and misinformation.

If there was some way this could be made feel like a communal part of Boards.ie it will have a much greater success, something like workshops on how to service your car, or basic checks, or preparing for winter/summer where people can get together, meet and greet and learn will help this sub forum immensely.

From this people will come to know who really knows their stuff and trust their posts and information.

Captain Slow IRL

It might not be any harm to try it out for a while as a public forum. The only problem IMO would be moderating and sifting out the worthwile threads and posts.

A sticky at the top with a lot of commonly asked questions "Steering wheel vibration @ 100kmph", EML issues as mentioned by Shamwari, might help out a lot as well.

101sean

I've only posted a couple of times as my knowledge is very Land Rover specific and that's already covered either by the 4x4 forum or one of the many specialist forums so you don't get many questions here. I also search specialist forums first for other vehicles (feckin Renault mostly :rolleyes:) and found my answers there without needing to ask here.

Like others have said, a worry would be too much irrelevance, mis-information, guesstimation and hearsay in here, heavy moderation would be needed.

Owen

It's definitely the place for a lot of questions that end up in the normal motors forum, the problem with opening it up is we'll get all sorts of posters giving advice on subjects they know nothing about as per usual. It'll go "I rolled my car on it's roof last night, what'll I do" - answer? T Cut. Or "My wheels are making a funny noise, what could it be?" - answer? Fuel pump.

There should be a proviso that if you are guessing at answers, don't post. Just don't. There are some decent enough skins on here who answer the techy questions, and if someone's not a DIY/Professional Mechanic, they shouldn't be giving have a go answers. Pity boards can't be autoprogramme to auto reply to every thread with a "Don't post if you don't know" sort of tag line.

And Mods, I *do* pity you. Moving threads while simple, is still a pain in the ass

Gary ITR

PaintDoctor wrote: »

It's definitely the place for a lot of questions that end up in the normal motors forum, the problem with opening it up is we'll get all sorts of posters giving advice on subjects they know nothing about as per usual. It'll go "I rolled my car on it's roof last night, what'll I do" - answer? T Cut. Or "My wheels are making a funny noise, what could it be?" - answer? Fuel pump.

There should be a proviso that if you are guessing at answers, don't post. Just don't. There are some decent enough skins on here who answer the techy questions, and if someone's not a DIY/Professional Mechanic, they shouldn't be giving have a go answers. Pity boards can't be autoprogramme to auto reply to every thread with a "Don't post if you don't know" sort of tag line.

And Mods, I *do* pity you. Moving threads while simple, is still a pain in the ass

I agree with most/all of the above

As for the moving of threads, I'm sure after the first few posters will get the hint :rolleyes:

Plug

How about make it public and anyone who is a mechanic here can get a thing under there user name that says 'technician' instead of 'Registered User' so the OP can hopefully trust that person? Also maybe someone who is not a mechanic but genuinely handy with cars which they are a few on boards. Just an idea though, also I do think it should be made public but then if will have to be moderated more.

golfbgud

Perhaps a bit more structure in terms of adding sub-categories might help somewhat?

I find the Boards Forum in general very useful. Ok, some posts are not always very useful but I feel most people are genuinely trying to help.

I'm not a qualified mechanic but I do have some knowledge around cars and I do have a keen interest in faults/fixes even if they are not directly relevant to me. There are a lot of friendly, knowledgeable and helpful people on here - for that I'm grateful.

It's not possible to identify who is qualified versus who isn't so maybe there's something else there that could be looked at. If you read the posts often enough you can start to work this out for yourself but this is not the most efficient way....

Please keep up the good work!

Stoolbend

It should be made public, but all threads could be pre moderated. The mods could then decide whether to move it to motors or allow it in tech help.

The mod could then add a tag line similar to PaintDoctors suggestion.

Gary ITR

Premoderating is a bit too much and usually only done in forums that would see a high amount of abuse. It wouldn't matter *too* much if the threads here were posted in the wrong place and had to be moved later

Eoin

Pre-moderating every post would be a massive pain in the bum, so I wouldn't be in favour of that I'm afraid.

The problem with taglines is that this isn't a motoring website, this is just one of several hundred forums. I think I am able to change my own tagline, as can subscribers - so there would probably need to be code changes just for one forum. Also verifying someone's credentials is only done in certain circumstances (Company Reps etc) and I imagine is quite laborious for the boards staff to do.

And to be brutally honest, I've heard some awfully uninformed crap from posters who've been "in the trade for 20 years", so a tagline wouldn't really give me any more confidence. An amateur enthusiast can often offer better advice about a certain car than a non-specialist mechanic.

Owen

Could we do something like the bug reports forum - have a drop down menu with prechosen fields? Not sure how it'd work, but part of me says have ones with "Electrical" "Bodywork" "Engine" "Suspension" "Brakes", etc, and also have "Resolved/Closed" so a Mod could maybe lock it up when the topic's been answered correctly/the OP says he's sorted it?

Eoin

The web development forum has custom prefixes, so that might be an option.

Eoin

Another thing - if the forum is made public, should it be renamed to something like "DIY Car Maintenance" to make it more obvious that it's not for general "what's wrong with my car" questions?

Owen

DIY Car Maintenance & Repair - so as to cover all bases? Bit of a mouthful though

Eoin

Still a shorter title than the "Entrepreneurial & Business Management" forum, so I'd imagine something like that should be OK.

Are people happy with it being at the same level of the motors forum, or should it be a sub-forum?

Apologies in advance to my fellow mods; but probably just as well to see what we all think now, rather than drip-feed a load of different requests to the admins.

-Corkie-

I think it should be left as a sub forum. This is a great forum as most of the posters know there stuff really well. I feel if its in the main motors forum youll see people posting stuff that havent a clue and dragging up old threads for no reason. Also you will have clowns wandering out of After hours posting crap.. Best of luck whatever move ye make..:)

Owen

I'd make it as a visible sub forum of the Motors (47) forum. The problem with it currently is that it's not in the menu, and a lot of people don't go to the main motoring section to search for it. Even if it were visible, I still don't think people would go to the motoring category looking for it.

The aim of this thread (Correct me if I'm wrong) is to kickstart this into something great, and popular - and I think having people who have the motors forum bookmarked, or it's the first URL suggestion that comes up when you type the letter b into your address bar (It is on mine) will potentially lose us our desired audience if we have it on the same level as the Motors forum. My 2 cents though, and I'm sure others'll have other better ideas.

32 votes and 32 posts in this thread, unfortunately it seems people aren't too bothered either way, not being smart or anything but everyone wants access but they simply don't view in here at the moment. Only 400 odd views of this topic too.

MagicMarker

I view in here, and every time I come back to see what's new, well... there's nothing new

Plus when I go up to Rec > Motors, this forum isn't listed with the rest of the sub-forums, which means I have to go searching for it if I want to access it, which may explain why there's so little traffic? If it was a public forum that would change.

Plug

MagicMarker wrote: »

I view in here, and every time I come back to see what's new, well... there's nothing new

Plus when I go up to Rec > Motors, this forum isn't listed with the rest of the sub-forums, which means I have to go searching for it if I want to access it, which may explain why there's so little traffic? If it was a public forum that would change.

Agree with you here. The amount of tech help questions in motors forum is series. Make it public down beside Motors, modified motors etc.

vinny63

its a great forum and if you can keep the tech side seperate from the main motors forum there will be more users so hopefully it will be better for all users.

Eoin

MagicMarker wrote: »

I view in here, and every time I come back to see what's new, well... there's nothing new

Plus when I go up to Rec > Motors, this forum isn't listed with the rest of the sub-forums, which means I have to go searching for it if I want to access it, which may explain why there's so little traffic? If it was a public forum that would change.

Yep, private forums aren't listed in any of the navigation menus, so I can definitely imagine increased traffic if this forum becomes public.

The downside I see is mainly 1st time posters coming in from Google searches; but that stuff I think is manageable - we have enough motors mods to be able to move threads as required.

Tefral

My 2c:

Having access to this forum and having a very good knowledge of technical issues with cars i only post on items where it would be benefical, where id be 100% the answer was the right one. This forum seems to be full of people in my position. The forum is what I would call "Concise".

Correct me if im wrong, but the "General" motors forum is the second busiest in Boards? Theres alot of General ****e there to be honest. Why change this? It maybe quiet but its like a manual rather than a book. I dont know if anyone else agrees on this.

Avns1s

I feel that having made the forum private has led to a situation where (in general) only those with a reasonable knowledge and some experience at least at DIY level are the only ones who have sought access hence we are in a situation where those who need to ask questions are not automatically part of the forum.

As a consequence you have a forum predominantly made up of people who do not have to ask many questions, well, the more basic ones at least!!!! Hence the lower traffic.

In an ideal scenario, you'd have a situation where anyone could ask a question but only those who have knowledge could reply. How on earth you control that I'd have no idea. I would not be in favour of having only "qualified" or "practicing" mechanics answering exclusively, either. There are lots of people who are very competent DIYers and who have a high degree of experience and more importantly, cop on, that could divulge their knowledge or experience but who know to keep quiet, if they don't have anything solid to input.

As my neighbour used to say, "God direct you to the best decision". (He was no good at mechanics BTW!! )

Tefral

Avns1s wrote: »

I feel that having made the forum private has led to a situation where (in general) only those with a reasonable knowledge and some experience at least at DIY level are the only ones who have sought access hence we are in a situation where those who need to ask questions are not automatically part of the forum.

As a consequence you have a forum predominantly made up of people who do not have to ask many questions, well, the more basic ones at least!!!! Hence the lower traffic.

In an ideal scenario, you'd have a situation where anyone could ask a question but only those who have knowledge could reply. How on earth you control that I'd have no idea. I would not be in favour of having only "qualified" or "practicing" mechanics answering exclusively, either. There are lots of people who are very competent DIYers and who have a high degree of experience and more importantly, cop on, that could divulge their knowledge or experience but who know to keep quiet, if they don't have anything solid to input.

As my neighbour used to say, "God direct you to the best decision". (He was no good at mechanics BTW!! )

If you open it up for anyone to ask a question but only those who reply are mechanics, your leaving the person who replys open to legal repercussions as they hold themselves out to be "experts" in the area. As we all know 80% for the time its hard to diagnose a problem over the net.

At the moment, were are all as you say knowledgeable DIYers and as such know to take someones advice here as just that.. advice and shall i say someones opinion. If you leave it open to others who are less fortunate in the mechanical knowledge as ourselves then, they may take someones opinion as gospel, should that turn out to be false, then they have just cause to sue the person who gave them the advice for damages.

Avns1s

cronin_j wrote: »

If you open it up for anyone to ask a question but only those who reply are mechanics, your leaving the person who replys open to legal repercussions as they hold themselves out to be "experts" in the area. As we all know 80% for the time its hard to diagnose a problem over the net.

At the moment, were are all as you say knowledgeable DIYers and as such know to take someones advice here as just that.. advice and shall i say someones opinion. If you leave it open to others who are less fortunate in the mechanical knowledge as ourselves then, they may take someones opinion as gospel, should that turn out to be false, then they have just cause to sue the person who gave them the advice for damages.

I see your point and to an extent I can agree with it.

On the legal side of things, I don't think there can be repercussions. I came across a recent case whereby a friend who was helping another friend was sued for damaging items during a house move. The judge ruled that since the friend was doing a favour as requested by the person doing the move and they didnt damage the goods deliberately, then there was no liability.

The kind of people you are talking about, who dont have ANY clue of what's good advice and bad, and dont have a clue how to implement good advice properly in any case, should not be fixing their cars anyway and should have enough cop to know that.

.............. so are ye going to make it public ?

GTE

Onkle wrote: »

The original idea of this forum really was for the DIYer to ask questions and mechanics to share knowledge, that won't change, any non-diy questions will be moved

Motors Tech doesn't scream out to be anything in terms of describing things.
A public "Motors DIY and Tech" I think would allow the DIY'ers in to ask their questions but also hopefully keep the people with the silly questions out.

It seems to be a case that the desire to keep the silly questions out is over filtering things.

Also, threads that pop over to the main forum should be moved into this one also to show that it is there.

It can get going. Even getting introduction to DIY guides up could help bring more people over. Guides covering the basics like engine management lights could be put up, although they will probably be short and end with get it diagnosed it would still give the people with those questions answers.

A knowledge or database of common faults, done in Motors I think, could be hosted here with a link in Motors. More people coming over here with a valuable resource to look at.

Gary ITR

The request is in with the Admins to make this forum public and a sub of Motors, I know Dav was hoping to get to it today, it will also have prefixes for the threrads. TBH a lot of this will be play it by ear and just see how we go

biko

Soon as I saw the thread on the front page I thought "make it public"

Plug

* DIY Car Maintenance & Repair * Name changed anyway...

Seth Brundle

Prefixes added
(getting excited)

Plug

Just like coperation men taking their time:p

GTE

Just curious, regarding the title of the forum.

Is my most recent thread there in the right place? Chances are the more I think about it that I wont have the time to do immediate DIY but it is a maintenance related question.

sean1141

I didn't read all the replies to this so I don't know if what i am going to suggest has been mentioned all ready..
Anyway the main problem with asking a technical question in the motors forum is too many people trying to be helpfully but they haven't a clue what they are talking about (I'm possibly guilty of this!!) Now how about making this technical section public but only allowing the few qualified people who regularly post here answer the question?? Now I'm not expecting these guys to be sitting behind the computer all day every day but make it clear to anyone who ask a question that a response will be a while coming but when it dose it will be from an experienced mechanic.... At least that way when you get an answer it will be helpfull..

Maybe this is not possible at all... Just my suggestion

Eoin

Hi sean1141, something like that was suggested (probably best to read the whole thread - it's not that long).

The main problem is that it's hard and time consuming to verify if people are professionals or not.

My issue is that I've seen some awful bullshìt posted here by people who've claim to have worked in the trade for 20 years. If they really have, then I personally wouldn't want to be giving them any more air time than anyone else.

@bbk link to your other thread?