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Age of Consent?

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  • 04-01-2011 8:19am
    #1
    OutlawPete
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,689 ✭✭✭✭


    The Government is to issue new proposals that will lower the Age of Consent to 16.
    Minister of State for Children Barry Andrews said yesterday the current laws on age of consent were “inappropriate” and out of touch with the modern reality of sexual relations between young people.
    “Ireland with Malta are the only countries in Europe with an age of consent of 17.

    “It means that prosecutions can issue on foot of one child having sex with a child who is 16½. For me, to apply criminal sanctions of that order, for that kind of activity, which we all know is more common today, is unconscionable.”

    Mr Andrews said heads of a Bill would be published soon – probably in January – to implement the conclusion of the Oireachtas committee on the constitutional amendment of children that the age of consent should be lowered to 16 years.

    People had to acknowledge “times had moved on” and there was a different attitude to sex among young people. Mr Andrews denied that lowering the age of consent would encourage people to have sex at a younger age. He called for more sex education in schools.

    “I don’t think young people are ignorant, they understand that we are not setting this as a target. We are clearly saying that delaying first sex is something that everyone recommends. Those people who have sex at young ages often regret it in later life.”
    The Poll just deals with the above and whether or not you agree with the lowering of the Age of Consent and which age you think it should be if indeed you do think that it should be lowered.

    On a separate issue, the Bill will also attempt to address the fact that while Men face a maximum of life for incest, women currently only face a possible seven years for committing the same crime.
    Mr Andrews said the Bill would also modernise incest laws by introducing a maximum life sentence for women who commit incest.
    Men already face a possible life sentence if convicted of committing incest but for now there is a maximum sentence of seven years for women – a point highlighted by the judge in the recent trial of a mother of six, who was found guilty of incest in the Roscommon child abuse case.
    There is no mention however of the Government addressing the fact that a 16 year old boy (for instance) can have underage sex with a 16 year old girl and face a statutory rape charge, while the girl is immune from prosecution just for the very fact that she is female. In fact, a 16 girl could have sex with an 11 year old boy and not face any charges with the current laws.
    He said the Government would probably not have time to pass the legislation into law but he appealed to the Labour Party, if it entered a coalition with Fine Gael, to continue to support the 16-year-old limit.

    During discussions at the Oireachtas committee, which was chaired by Mary O’Rourke, Fine Gael supported maintaining the current age of consent at 17 years, while Labour supported 16 years.
    Seems the parties differ on this, so may possibly become an election issue.

    So, do you agree that the Age of Consent should be lowered, and if so - to what age?

    Source

    What should the Age of Consent be? 229 votes

    (12) Gibraltar
    0% 0 votes
    (13) Spain
    5% 13 votes
    (14) Germany, Austria, Italy, Bulgaria, Croatia, Portugal & Hungary
    1% 3 votes
    (15) Denmark, Sweden, Romania, Poland, Greece & France
    4% 10 votes
    (16) UK, Finland, Switzerland, Norway & Holland
    8% 20 votes
    (17) Ireland and Cyprus
    31% 73 votes
    (18) Turkey
    9% 21 votes
    Other fixed age
    6% 15 votes
    (14) With closer-in-age exceptions
    0% 1 vote
    (15) With closer-in-age exceptions
    1% 4 votes
    (16) With closer-in-age exceptions
    3% 9 votes
    (17) With closer-in-age exceptions
    17% 40 votes
    (18) With closer-in-age exceptions
    4% 11 votes
    Other with closer-in-age exceptions
    3% 9 votes


«13

Comments

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    #2
    George83
    Registered Users Posts: 141 ✭✭George83


    I don't have any strong feelings about changing the age of consent, but I do feel this is very wrong - There is no mention however of the Government addressing the fact that a 16 year old boy (for instance) can have underage sex with a 16 year old girl and face a statutory rape charge, while the girl is immune from prosecution just for the very fact that she is female. In fact, a 16 girl could have sex with an 11 year old boy and not face any charges with the current laws - surely the law should work bothways.


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    #3
    AnneElizabeth
    Registered Users Posts: 519 ✭✭✭AnneElizabeth


    I think it's find the way it is now. I think it being 17 does make (most) people wait longer. And the people that don't wait are the ones who've been doing it since they were even younger anyways.

    I agree with the above post though, a boy and girl of the same age having sex shouldn't be considered statutory rape.


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    #4
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    AnneElizabeth wrote: »
    I think it's find the way it is now. I think it being 17 does make (most) people wait longer.
    Really? From comments you used to hear, most people think it's 16 already because it is in the UK


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    #5
    Mark200
    Registered Users Posts: 3,536 ✭✭✭Mark200


    George83 wrote: »
    I don't have any strong feelings about changing the age of consent, but I do feel this is very wrong - There is no mention however of the Government addressing the fact that a 16 year old boy (for instance) can have underage sex with a 16 year old girl and face a statutory rape charge, while the girl is immune from prosecution just for the very fact that she is female. In fact, a 16 girl could have sex with an 11 year old boy and not face any charges with the current laws - surely the law should work bothways.

    It's the same with normal rape too. A woman can not be charged with rape. It's because legally, sex is defined as the actual act of penetration. Which a woman can't do...

    And I think the age of consent should be lowered. 17 is too high. No need for closer age exceptions for 16 or 17 year olds I don't think.


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    #6
    PCPhoto
    Registered Users Posts: 6,584 ✭✭✭PCPhoto


    George83 wrote: »
    I don't have any strong feelings about changing the age of consent, but I do feel this is very wrong - There is no mention however of the Government addressing the fact that a 16 year old boy (for instance) can have underage sex with a 16 year old girl and face a statutory rape charge, while the girl is immune from prosecution just for the very fact that she is female. In fact, a 16 girl could have sex with an 11 year old boy and not face any charges with the current laws - surely the law should work bothways.

    SHOULD ... but in Ireland ....we ALWAYS have to have "some" people who are above the law.


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    #7
    Coriolanus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,879 ✭✭✭Coriolanus


    16 with lower close age exceptions. 15/16, 15/15 etc.


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    #8
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Trust this country to lower the age of consent, yet probably not increase sexual education.


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    #9
    ilovesleep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭ilovesleep


    How about lowering the age of voting too. Or are teenagers adult enough for riding but not adult enough for a vote.


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    #10
    Kintarō Hattori
    Registered Users Posts: 14,974 ✭✭✭✭Kintarō Hattori


    Several replies in and is no-one else shocked at just how young the age of consent is in Spain? That's horrific really.


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    #11
    TheZohanS
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,582 ✭✭✭✭TheZohanS


    ilovesleep wrote: »
    How about lowering the age of voting too. Or are teenagers adult enough for riding but not adult enough for a vote.

    Yeah that's a good idea...

    "**** you Deputy Jedward"


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    #12
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,025 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Kintarō Hattori wrote: »
    Several replies in and is no-one else shocked at just how young the age of consent is in Spain? That's horrific really.

    I think it is only legal for consenting 13-16 y/os, but I can't read Spanish to check the legislation.

    They can also marry at 14, leaving just enough time to get the wedding arranged before the baby arrives. :pac:

    Grandmother at 28? :eek:


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    #13
    George83
    Registered Users Posts: 141 ✭✭George83


    Kintarō Hattori wrote: »
    Several replies in and is no-one else shocked at just how young the age of consent is in Spain? That's horrific really.

    Gibraltar is even more shocking - surely 12 is far too early to be even considering having sex?


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    #14
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    Kintarō Hattori wrote: »
    Several replies in and is no-one else shocked at just how young the age of consent is in Spain? That's horrific really.

    Heard it before so not shocked now no


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    #15
    TheZohanS
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,582 ✭✭✭✭TheZohanS


    Kintarō Hattori wrote: »
    Several replies in and is no-one else shocked at just how young the age of consent is in Spain? That's horrific really.

    It's lowest in the Vatican State.


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    #16
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    http://www.avert.org/age-of-consent.htm

    It's a bit strange that in the Vatican City it's not stipulated that you have to be married to have sex, like in Pakistan or Oman. So apparenty it's a sin, but not illegal.


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    #17
    TheZohanS
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,582 ✭✭✭✭TheZohanS


    Deleted User wrote: »
    http://www.avert.org/age-of-consent.htm

    It's a bit strange that in the Vatican City it's stipulated that you have to be married to have sex

    Are you sure about that?


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    #18
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    TheZohan wrote: »
    Are you sure about that?

    I'm only going by that website, where it stipulates where you have to be married to have sex, and the Vatican City isn't one of those. I could be wrong, of course. Apologies, that was a typo. Meant to say that it's not stipulated.


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    #19
    Sesshoumaru
    Registered Users Posts: 2,127 ✭✭✭Sesshoumaru


    Kintarō Hattori wrote: »
    Several replies in and is no-one else shocked at just how young the age of consent is in Spain? That's horrific really.

    I'm more shocked at how close we are to Turkey. Maybe some of the people voting for an age of consent the same as Turkey also believe some honour killings might help discourage young people from having sex?


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    #20
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,025 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I'm only going by that website, where it stipulates where you have to be married to have sex, and the Vatican City isn't one of those. I could be wrong, of course. Apologies, that was a typo. Meant to say that it's not stipulated.

    Vatican is the same as Italy.


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    #21
    orourkeda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    Teenagers screw like bunnies anyway. What difference will a minor tweak to the law make.


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    #22
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Lumen wrote: »
    Vatican is the same as Italy.

    According to the site I posted, the age of consent in Italy is 14. Multiple other places say 14 too.


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    #23
    phill106
    Registered Users Posts: 6,810 ✭✭✭phill106


    Thank goodness it is a private poll, otherwise I would be all over the posts of the people who voted 13... Come on, 13?!


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    #24
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users Posts: 16,120 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    Sesshoumaru wrote: »
    I'm more shocked at how close we are to Turkey. Maybe some of the people voting for an age of consent the same as Turkey also believe some honour killings might help discourage young people from having sex?

    I think the poll means that people who vote for that age believe that that age is the correct one at which to start sexual relations. It doesn't mean that those voting for that particular age believe that we should take on that country's laws.

    How would it work with the ages of 15 or 16, for instance? Should we pick and choose the most draconian laws from each country listed?


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    #25
    Sesshoumaru
    Registered Users Posts: 2,127 ✭✭✭Sesshoumaru


    Pherekydes wrote: »
    I think the poll means that people who vote for that age believe that that age is the correct one at which to start sexual relations. It doesn't mean that those voting for that particular age believe that we should take on that country's laws.

    How would it work with the ages of 15 or 16, for instance? Should we pick and choose the most draconian laws from each country listed?

    I would argue that the extreme moral views of the Turks and the age of consent being 18 are linked. Do you think the problem of young girls being murdered by their families in Turkey for having sex outside of marriage is unrelated to the age of consent being 18 in Turkey?


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    #26
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users Posts: 16,120 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    Sesshoumaru wrote: »
    I would argue that the extreme moral views of the Turks and the age of consent being 18 are linked. Do you think the problem of young girls being murdered by their families in Turkey for having sex outside of marriage is unrelated to the age of consent being 18 in Turkey?

    I think you'll find that there are honour killings in other European countries whose ages of consent are much lower.


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    #27
    swizzle123
    Registered Users Posts: 133 ✭✭swizzle123


    It doesn't matter if the government were to change the age to 21 or to 10. Teenagers have sex when they want and having an age limit doesn't stop them or put them off it. If its something they want to do then having an age limit on it isn't going to make a difference...

    I would agree though that yeah if they are lowering the age limit then they should provide better sex education...im outta secondary school now around 5 years and we got little or no sex education..


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    #28
    TheZohanS
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,582 ✭✭✭✭TheZohanS


    phill106 wrote: »
    Thank goodness it is a private poll, otherwise I would be all over the posts of the people who voted 13... Come on, 13?!
    Get over it, someone voted 12.


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    #29
    Sesshoumaru
    Registered Users Posts: 2,127 ✭✭✭Sesshoumaru


    Pherekydes wrote: »
    I think you'll find that there are honour killings in other European countries whose ages of consent are much lower.

    Like in Germany?

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,344374,00.html
    http://www.bild.de/BILD/news/bild-english/world-news/2008/12/17/sister-stabbed-in-honour-killing/are-his-court-tears-genuine.html
    http://www.bild.de/BILD/news/bild-english/world-news/2009/06/25/honour-killing-shocks-germany/turkish-dad-stabs-own-15-year-old-daughter-to-death.html
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4345459.stm

    I also found this Guardian article:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/feb/04/girl-buried-alive-turkey
    Guardian wrote:
    Death reopens debate over 'honour' killings in Turkey, which account for half of all the country's murders

    I don't think you can compare honour killings in Turkey to any other EU country, the scale is totally different. I only bring this up because I believe this kind of ultra conservative ideology is related to their age of consent being 18.

    I have two kids myself and don't want them having sex at an early age. But I have to be realistic, it may happen and if it does I don't want either of them or anyone else's kid going to jail for having consensual sex


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    #30
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,025 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Deleted User wrote: »
    According to the site I posted, the age of consent in Italy is 14. Multiple other places say 14 too.

    The age of consent in the Vatican is the same as in Italy. That's what the law says, it's not coincidence. The site you posted said the age of consent in the Vatican was 12, therefore it is wrong. :)


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    #31
    phill106
    Registered Users Posts: 6,810 ✭✭✭phill106


    TheZohan wrote: »
    Get over it, someone voted 12.

    Since i posted, yes. That is even worse. Surely most kids wouldnt even have reached puberty then?


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